Women travelling

[Reality Check]

Opinionated

 

Walaashiis.. looks like you fell prey to your egotism due to an utter ignorance, you basically view the all of the SOL nomads who replied on this thread thus far with contempt and consider their views as something superfluous and worthless, but obviously you are oblivious (or pretending to be) of the fact that your opinions towards Maxram have no basis or Daliil.

I never held anyone's views as worthless, unless you mean to tell me that disagreeing with someone is "superfluous".

 

You see people who’s eyesight is weak use eyeglasses to see better,

And people who are balding use rogaine, what is your POINT here?

 

 

I suggest that you learn more about islam and resort to an analytic examination of your attitude. Just carefully and vigilantly distinguish your true capacities from deceptive and harmful tendencies.

Uhmm, your overuse of "big" words compromises the point you are trying to make. Easy on the thesaurus, buddy!

 

One of the renowned SOL nomads (not sure whom it was) was telling us here in SOL about how she eye witnessed tow Malaysian students she knew been ran over to death by a car in their way back home from Taraawiix?!! Have you ever thought that could happen to you? With the exception that you are mouthing off words that like these >>>

yes, and I am sure you are a saint. Brother, word of advise.....Stop making yourself look like the fighter of the deen ok..and let people believe what they want to believe. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: what's with the character assassination? I still think its about the phone

[Baashi]

Opinionated is absolutely right on one thing: she has a choice of embracing Islam in its entirety or embracing it on the basis of what makes sense to her. If she chooses to accept it in its entirety then she is a sincere Muslim and her shortcomings stem from ignorence. If she engages 'pick and choose' exercise on the basis of what makes sense to her wishy-washy feelings then may Allah show her the right path. All Muslims, including me, are expected to accept this religion in its entirety. Any willfull and knowingly deviation from this expectation amounts outright rejection of the religion.

 

Many nomads went in great length to present the sayings of the prophet and Islamic consensus on this issue. JazakumAllahu kheyran to all of you. But now you know she is in need of more of the Islamic basics and not the legal details, I suggest u to give her the benefit of the doubt as u would with any other person who have difficulty in discerning the meaning of the Tawhid.

 

From what I gather, she is intelligent, inquisitive, and shrewd Muslim lady. Given time, I'm sure, she will reach an unavoidable conclusion that one can not deny or disregard an Islamic directive and the sametimes be a genuine Muslim.

[Reality Check]

Originally posted by Baashi:

Opinionated is absolutely right on one thing: she has a choice of embracing Islam in its entirety or embracing it on the basis of what makes sense to her. If she chooses to accept it in its entirety then she is a sincere Muslim and her shortcomings stem from ignorence. If she engages 'pick and choose' exercise on the basis of what makes sense to her wishy-washy feelings then may Allah show her the right path. All Muslims, including me, are expected to accept this religion in its entirety. Any willfull and knowingly deviation from this expectation amounts outright rejection of the religion.

First of all, stop being so condescending. It's beneath you! Second of all, (this is getting abit tedious) again you are mentioning my deen and telling me I don't have one. But here is a question for all the females here, DO YOU TAKE YOUR MAHRAM WITH YOU EVERYWHERE YOU GO? if not, well, then you must not be a muslim (according to baashi) because you dont practice it. and Baashi, do you lower your gaze when women pass you by, I hardly doubt it! so do not sit here and tell me what I should be practicing to make you believe that I am muslim..because frankly, I dont care whether you think I am jews, christian or a budhist, you are just making yourself look bad.

 

But now you know she is in need of more of the Islamic basics and not the legal details, I suggest u to give her the benefit of the doubt as u would with any other person who have difficulty in discerning the meaning of the Tawhid.

I think you are the one with the difficulty understanding brother. Go and re-read my previous post cuz I dont feel like repeating myself.

 

From what I gather, she is intelligent, inquisitive, and shrewd Muslim lady. Given time, I'm sure, she will reach an unavoidable conclusion that one can not deny or disregard an Islamic directive and the sametimes be a genuine Muslim. [/qb]

and were the four scholars not a genuine muslims with differing views on issues? hmmm...I could be wrong here..and arent muslims today in different sects? I could also be wrong here! thank you for the character assessment by the way. Look at the way you all are behaving, and you call yourselves muslim, ha?

[Rokko]

Oh my.

 

:confused: :confused:

 

Opinionated, are ya ok?

[Reality Check]

Mobb Deep,

 

I'm ok. The real question is: are the rest of the S.O.Lers ok? I am deeply concerned about their REAL reasons for being so volatile towards me. Go figure? :confused:

[Baashi]

were the four scholars not a genuine muslims with differing views on issues? hmmm...I could be wrong here..

Yes! they were genuine and sincere scholars with different understanding and interpretations on questions of Islamic jurisprudence. Interpretations by the way intended to clarify, not to nullify Islamic directives, the legal implications of what Allah decreed and his prophet conveyed to us. You are not in mood of embracing the MAHRAM directive and (& its exceptions) but you are questioning its need or the wisdom behind it. In essence, u disagree the MAHRAM. Am I right?

 

Let's put it this way, which Islamic scholar do u agree on the question of MAHRAM?

 

And what is his position on this?

 

These 2 questions will clarify if there is any misunderstanding between us.

 

and arent muslims today in different sects?

Yes. What's your point?

 

thank you for the character assessment by the way. Look at the way you all are behaving, and you call yourselves muslim, ha?

U wlc! My sincere appology if u are offended by my comments.

[Baashi]

One more thing!

 

Second of all, (this is getting abit tedious) again you are mentioning my deen and telling me I don't have one.

Deen is the subject of this discussion and u r disagreeing the MAHRAM which is Islamic directive. U r making statements that refutes the Deen yet u crying foul when challenged. U r like the math teacher who insisted 2+2 equals 5 and refused to prove it or else to disclose his credentials.

 

Granted we are not supposed to chase folks out of Islam. We are just chatting about the contentions u made which incidently happen to be wrong. Are u expecting us to exercise silence and give u impunity on what appears to be akin to blasphemy.

 

But here is a question for all the females here, DO YOU TAKE YOUR MAHRAM WITH YOU EVERYWHERE YOU GO? if not, well, then you must not be a muslim (according to baashi) because you dont practice it.

Xaasha Lillaah!

 

and Baashi, do you lower your gaze when women pass you by, I hardly doubt it! so do not sit here and tell me what I should be practicing to make you believe that I am muslim..

Every time? honestly, No! but I know I should not be doing any gazing. There are even times when I make an effort to see their beautifull figures that proves I'm human. U don't hear me though saying I don't agree on this with Allah (MacaathAllah)- gazing opposite sex that is - or making statement akin to that. And when I'm reminded my mistakes I say IstiqfurAllah.

[Jaabir]

Originally posted by Baashi:

One more thing!

Every time? honestly, No! but I know I should not be doing any gazing. There are even times when I make an effort to see their beautifull figures

that proves I'm human. U don't hear me though saying I don't agree on this with Allah (MacaathAllah)- gazing opposite sex that is - or making statement akin to that. And when I'm reminded my mistakes I say IstiqfurAllah.

point made real clear.. thanks Baashi.. and Jazaak alaah khayr..

[Khayr]

sALAAMZ,

Originally posted by Baashi:

One more thing!

Every time? honestly, No! but I know I should not be doing any gazing. There are even times when I make an effort to see their beautifull figures that proves I'm human. U don't hear me though saying I don't agree on this with Allah (MacaathAllah)- gazing opposite sex that is - or making statement akin to that. And when I'm reminded my mistakes I say IstiqfurAllah.

WELL SAID, walaal!

 

You know some people today want to justify there wants and needs by denying what is in Religion and Revelation and when someone brings up an argument against their personal, self-serving, hedonistic views, they just throw the 'Well you're not PERFECT, so u have no right to say this to me-CARD".

The difference btwn the believer and the nonbeliever is that when the believer sins, they seek forgiveness from Allah and remember HIM.

But when the nonbeliever sins, they say that they had a 'right' to do what they did and that no one has a 'right' to question them

"who are u tell me"

 

You don't have to AGREE with everything but inshallah learn to appreciate things and don't

INVALIDATE something b/c you DISAGREE with it.

 

Fi Amanallah

[-Serenity-]

Is it me or does Opinionated pose such a threat to certain people? If I'm not mistaken, Raxmah , Bulo and Qori Xabaalan refuted the Maxram idea too but I dont see any1 bouncing on them ... :confused:

 

Bulo Writes..

The proof of the permissibility of a woman traveling without a mahram is incumbent upon there being security and the presence of trustworthy faithful people. What was reported by Al-Bukhari is that during the final hajj of Umar Bin Al-Khattab (may Allah be pleased with him), he gave permission to the wives of the Prophet (pbuh) to perform hajj. So he sent with them Uthman Bin Affan and Abdul Rahman. Umar, Uthman, Abdul-Rahman Bin Awf and the wives of the Prophet (pbuh) all agreed to this. None of the other companions rejected what they did and therefore this is considered to be consensus.

.

.

.

The second is that prohibited things are not permitted except if there is a dire need. And things that are prohibited so that they can be an obstruction to evil are permitted during times of need. And there is no doubt that the prohibition of a woman traveling without a mahram is prohibited so that it can be an obstruction to evil.

 

It is incumbent upon us to look at traveling in our time. It is not like how traveling was in the past. It is not filled with the dangers of the waterless deserts, encounters with thieves, highway robbers, etc. Now traveling is by various modes of transportation that usually gather large amounts of people at a time, like ships, airplanes, buses or cars that travel in caravans. Thus, this provides plenty of confidence and reliability, removing feelings of fear for the woman, because she will not be by herself in any place.

Qori Writes

In the hadith of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) to `Adiy ibn Hatim we read: “If you live long, you will see the woman travel from Hirah (a city in Iraq) to circumambulate the Ka`bah fearing none but Allah.” (Reported by al-Bukhari)

 

This confirms that the cause (of the prohibition) is fear (of insecurity). If security is guaranteed and fear is no more present, a woman may travel, particularly nowadays when travel has become easy, whether by air, train or coach. In all these means of transportation, company is available and security is realized for the Muslim woman.

And Lastly, Raxmah

However, in my opinion with the changed circumstances of modern times, travelling has become a lot different from what it used to be in previous days. There are some travels in which safety both physical as well as moral is ensured. So, in such travels the mahram condition no longer applies. As far as the decision as to which journeys have become so safe is concerned, the traveller must decide for herself.

If some of you have other reasons why you want to be hostile towards Opinionated, say so..just dont be holding that "Islamic" Banner.

[-Serenity-]

double post ...

[pearl]

i dont think this is going anywhere...so could u guys just drop it....

 

there are ways to giving dacwa without resorting to attacks and name calling..all one has to do is give the daleel from the quran and sunnah and try to explain to the person its important...and leave

the guidance to Allah...cuz no one has the to power to guide a person whom Allah doesnt want to be guided....and that is not say that opinionated is misguided...cuz am sure we all are to some degree..and my Allah guide us all to siraatul mustaqeen.....

 

so as to start here is my daleel..

http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=4523&dgn=4

[Khayr]

I am not alien to islam and I still think this mahram Idea is a buncha crock by Opinionated aka the DEFENDANT

Who is no being represented by ATHENA

( Articling Student who is taking on a case that just might be too big for her to handle!)

 

I don't think that the other sisters said anything remotely near to what the

DEFENDANT aka "OPINIONATED" has stated.

The other sisters that ATHENA, Articling Student, has mentioned stated hadiths and view points from the ulema but they never called the concept of Mahram a "Buncha Crock".

 

Now Athena if the phrase "Buncha Crock"

sounds Positive to you, please share with us

some ways that it can be used POSITVELY, besides the example that your "CLIENT" has given.

 

Fi Amanallah

[-Serenity-]

Kheyr :rolleyes: ,

 

I dont wanna be Opinonated's attorney(since there is no pay), but I think you're all being a lil unfair to the sister. If you refer to an Islamic ruling as a buncha crock or say it no longer applies = same thing. How she chooses her words is her prerogative..wouldn't it be sad if we all chose the same words?

[pearl]

Originally posted by Athena:

If you refer to an Islamic ruling as a buncha crock or say it no longer applies = same thing. How she chooses her words is her prerogative..wouldn't it be sad if we all chose the same words?

 

...not to Discredit ur unpaid service but honey a buncha crock or say it no longer applies dont mean the same to majority of the viewers...one has to choice their words correctly so that its understood by majority not the minority......--->>>coming from a juror who has already made up her mind without the ending of the trial...