does Islam permit suicide attacks??

[Salafi_Online]

Ngonge

Saxib I tried to demonstrate the reasons why suicide bombing is Haram without resorting to copying and pasting a fatwa, surely you know that OG-Girl does not recognize the sunni scholars, my aim is to avoid something she will easily dismiss, my approach was based on the teaching of the Quran, something her and I had in common, and it clearly indicates self murder is forbidden! Secondly I pointed out why suicide bombing brings no benefit nor bares no fruit in the name of self defence. This was through simple logic saxib! Now if I was addressing a Sunni, then I would have easily copied and pasted a fatawa, that would be the end of my speech, they either take it or leave it!

 

In addition my position concerning Yusef is well known on this site, so no need for me to comment on his kaalam! Lest I irritate sahal !

 

Here are the fatwah Ngonge, you can listen them all in arabic no translation or misquoting!All the salafi scholars, from all the kibar Ulama, Uthaymmin, Albani, Bin baaz and more... according to them Islam does not permit suicide bombing!

 

www.fatwaonline.com

category/worship/jihaad/suicide bombing

 

Ps. none of my post were geared towards you!

[OG_Girl]

My arguments are still the same and everything I have said before stands. Let me ask you a very simple question, how does someone whose land has been stolen and great injustices being committed against him/her and his/her people defend themselves?

 

Suicide is Haraam there is no question about it and suicide is when one takes their lives senselessly; just because they fed up with the living or they lives have no meaning. Having said that, we both agree defending oneself the best way one can and/or know how is called a war of self-defence or just war. In wars, people die and this is the war of the weak against the strong.

 

Since we both agree suicide is Haraam, let us agree on a term that will make you happy and I am open to suggestions. However, I have one condition and that is you agree this is a war of the weak against a strong aggressor and the weak has no choice but to defend themselves. I wait for your term!

 

Allow me now to touch upon the Islamic element of this war and why the war is a just war. Warfare has changed a lot since the time of the Prophet. Today we have cruise missiles, precision bombs, nuclear weapons and countless other sophisticated weapons. Because of this today, we have one side with huge sophisticated weapons and the other side with nothing; living proof of this is Israel vs Palestine.

 

We all know there were no bombs during the prophets time let alone suicide bombing and thus there will be no and there are no Hadith and Aayaah that tell us, whether they are Haraam or Halal. The only opition that is open to us then is to use Qiyas and that is what our scholars depend on when making a Fatwa.

 

There are three criteria one has to consider whether something is Halal or not and in order, to issue Fatwa and they are,

 

1) The person would rather not die but does it for Islam --- This is happening because the Palestine’s are defending an Islamic land (Jerusalem)

 

2) Non-suicide (waiting for a better term from you) methods of warfare are not sufficiently effective in their situation—tanks, F16 are used against them when they don’t have these weapons.

 

3) The war in which the suicide bomber is taking part is vital for the Ummah.--- true same reason as one.

 

Since the Palestine’s fulfil the above three conditions and therefore their cause is a just one from Islamic point of view. If you have anything that contradicts the above, please feel free to share them.

 

 

Having said that, there are Hadith of mujahideen charging directly at enemy lines in order to break up the enemy's formation whilst knowing that they would die. This seems a bit like the older technological equivalent of Palestinian martyrdom operations.

 

Correct me if I am wrong - Eating Pork is Haraam, but when one is in danger of starving, one allowed to eat enough to nourish themselves. Extending this logic further one would conclude defending oneself with non conventional methods is allowed to since one is saving their lives and not dying needlessly.

 

 

I am curious though, what makes you say that the fatwa I read and follow is worse than the one you may read and follow? In addition, I mentioned that I take my position from the Qur'an and Hadith, which are quiet clear. As a student of Islamic Sharia, it is my Job to think. This is what we have those brains for and if you would like I could post fatwa for you then, just let me know.

Whenever there are issues where scholars have differences, these differences come as a mercy. A commoner without much knowledge is in no way able to make Ijtihad on what is correct. So commoners should chose and follow a scholar. Now if someone decides to follow Shiekh Al Qaradawi in one issue and Abdullah bin Baz in another, he/she is making a judgement between the two, and thus demeaning one of them based on his personal judgement

 

 

Salam

[OG_Girl]

Hope you use your commen sense and understand why I was avoiding Islamic point of view cause simply is very complicated and I know more than any one else why? cause my self I study Share'a.

 

Secondly don't make sunna and Shia point of view... I don't blidly follow every thing I use my brain and do my own judgment.I disagree a lot of things with Shia like beating them selves in Muharam month is totally unislamic and make no sense at all SO I rejected that and still I consider my self Shia.

 

Also I have great respect for Muslim Scholers regardless what Madhab they follow. As I always admire and take Sheikh Al Qaradawi's point of view.I am not blidly follower as I am Share's Law Student . I take what makes sense and use my judgment to choice what our Scholers say and I don't limit my self with one Scholer or one School of Fiqh.So painting me as a rejecter of Sunna School of Fiqh is invalid.

 

My point is, By condemning them, we will point the finger at them. The victims become the accused. The terrorized are called the terrorist. That is what has been happening in Palestine.

 

That is all to it. I am just done with argueing.You will not change my Mind as I am not willing to change yours.

 

 

Salam

[Qac Qaac]

Who said Israelies are Civilians, they are Occupiers.. they say in TV they are civilians, we don't we say they are Occupiers, and u could kill occupiers in Islam.. so carefull ppl with this haram thing aad la ordaysaan.

 

in Palestine, Chechnya, I support suicide bomp, and i am not gonna listen to some one in the west what he has to say, it is not his kids getting murdered, not his wife that is being raped everyday... the black windows that have nothing to live for oo kale, oo eber laga dhigay all her family, maa udiidee in ay sameeso wax qarxin, maya i would never...

[OG_Girl]

Qac Qac, first time we agreed ..shall we celebrate ..loooooooooooool

 

Any ways Ramadan kareem . I said ALL I gotta to say in this topic and I am done .

 

Salam

[Salma]

alf alf alf mabrook OG.

 

Awal marra ykoon fe etefaq, masha Allah

Duuno what to do? Shall I mashaxrad?

aza'3rad ya 5waatchy

[rudy-Diiriye]

so its permitted in other countries but not in arabian countries and in somalia! u tell me!

[Salafi_Online]

OG I must applaud you, your prose has drastically enhanced, its legible and well written! inshallah let it continue !

 

You have raised an interesting point,

Your main theme in these two post is that suicide is Haram unless a dire need necessitates, however this intriguing methodology thoroughly negates the principal suicide bombing was found impermissable on!

 

On analyzing the Palestinian situation one can clearly observe the calamity that has overtaken the Palestinians. In order to shield their land and retain their honor they have resorted to suicide bombing, however as I have explain previously these actions have not produced the desired results, in fact it has exacerbated the lives and conditions of the people. Do you know that our sisters’ bodies are examined by the filty soldiers at very check points; this practice was inscribed after the Palestinians sisters began suicide missions. A strategy that generates more Evil and corruption can not be praised or acceptable. So let me regurgitated what I posted earlier ; when one of the Palestinian blows himself up and kills six or seven people, then in retaliation the jews take sixty or more and not to mention additional land. thus this does not yield benefit, every time they carry out a mission; their people are repressed and further land is confiscated!

 

r Palestinians are not short of weapon, a part from being primitive, they are not short of supplies, however weapons are by no means the only ingredient to achieving complete victory! Allah has equipped the believers with plenty of arms, unfortunately lots of muslims have downplayed their role and importance. here are few alternative,

 

Firstly, Allah said to the believers in the battle of Badr,

 

“You did not kill them, Allah killed them. And you did not throw when you threw, it was Allah who threw in order that He may test the believers a good test from Him. Surely, Allah hears and Allah knows.â€

Al-Anfaal: 17

 

In this verse, Allah talks about the Battle of Badr where the Muslims were uplifted by a victory against all odds. Allah reminds His Prophet (sas) and all of the Muslims that this victory was by the power of Allah, not by anyone's strength or numbers. During this battle, the Prophet (sas) went aside and prayed to Allah for His aid and victory in this important battle. When he returned to the battle, he (sas) took a handful of sand and threw it toward the enemy. Allah caused this sand to reach the eyes and noses of the entire disbelieving army. This broke their will and turned the battle against them and they were defeated. So, Allah is telling us that victory is not by any strength which we possess, rather it is from Allah alone. Need I mention the battle of UXUD, Where their numbers or weapons did not avail the believers!

 

In an authentic Hadeeth, it is reported that Khabbab Ibn al-Aratt said: "We said: 'O Messenger of Allah! Why do you not invoke Allah to support us? Why do you not supplicate to Allah for us?' He said: "Among the people who came before you, there was a man who was taken and put into a hole dug for him in the earth, then a saw was put on his head and he was cut into two pieces, and an iron comb was used to tear the flesh from his bones, but this still did not turn him away from his religion." [Reported by al-Bukharee, see Fath al-Baaree, (12/315)]

 

Allah says: "Or think you that you will enter Paradise without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you? They were afflicted with severe poverty and ailments and were so shaken that even the Messenger and those who believed along with him said: 'When (will come) the help of Allah?' Yes! Certainly, the help of Allah is near!" [soorah al-Baqarah (2): 214]

 

Meaning that you will be tested like the nations before you were tested and tried with illness, pain, disasters and hardships so much that they pleaded (to Allah) for victory against the enemies and invoked Him for aid and deliverance from their hardships and trials. So let’s examine these few options

 

(1) Du’ah( by far the pre-eminent weapon a believer can possess)

(2) Patience(the ultimate shield)

(3) These Guns I constantly see on tv carried by the Palestinians(AK47)

(4) These bombs can be fabricated in such away that they can be thrown, or detonate without actually harming oneself(its possible)

(5) The Palestinians have an army and a police force/equipment with many types of arms. I know they are no match for the jewish force in terms of numbers and man power that is/ but you and I know both its not numbers that win the war, if we use the little weapons, with Allah’s help there is no stopping us

(6) How did the bare footed Arab conquer (Rome,The Turks, and Persia) their weapons compared to their opponents the least to say was Primitive!

 

In the light of the Palestinian resistance, there are Few Ayahs we need to consider

 

(1) Allah does not burden a soul beyond its capacity, in its favour is what it has earned, and against it is what it has appropriated. (286)

 

This ayah is self illuminating, Allah will not test the believers more then they can handle

 

(2) People said to the believers, "Your enemies have gathered a great force against you, so fear them." But that merely increased their faith and they said, "Allah is enough for us and the Best of Guardians." So they returned with blessings and bounty from Allah and no evil touched them. They pursued the pleasure of Allah. Allah's favour is indeed immense. It is Satan that prompts men to fear his followers. But do not fear them-fear Me if you are true believers. Do not lament for those who rush headlong into renouncing their faith. They do not harm Allah in any way. Allah intends to assign no portion to them in the hereafter. They will have a terrible punishment. Those who sell their faith for unbelief do not harm Allah in any way. They will have a painful punishment. (Surah Al 'Imran: 173-177)

 

 

Conclusively, no distress, difficulty or sorrow affect a believer who seeks Allah's consent and observes His commands. This is demonstrated in the course of events by which Allah puts a believer's determination, patience and submission to the test. These are outwardly troublesome and difficult events; but if met with patience and submission they allow the individual to discover Allah's mercy.Allah does not punish a believer who duly serves Him, neither in this world nor in the hereafter. On the contrary, He rewards him most bountifully both in this world and beyond

 

So to recap, suicide bombing generates nothing save more corruption and destruction.

Palestinians have plenty of options which they have been exercising for many years now,

As a matter of Fact im acquainted with few Palestinians who make round trips to Palestine, and they are eye witness on the conditions of the people. Their report is based on first hand experience, they say, most of the big cities are not bad and are liveable, but it’s the refugee camps that have been under fatal attacks, however suicide bombing is not their last route, is a feeble argument, ask any Palestinian and they do not even resort to such reasoning!

 

As for your fatwa, my beef is with the one who gave the fatwah, his status as far as im concerned has been discoloured with his constant Baatil Kaalam which seems to never end!Allahu Musta3an

 

My leisure time has official come to an end! So have a nice Ramadan folks and see you all in 6 months!

[AYOUB]

.

[AYOUB]

Originally posted by Devil's Advocate:

This is what suicide bombs does to people:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20040930/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_040930141903

Originally posted by Devil's Advocate:

 

Right now 35 Iraqi kids are dead. Freedom or no freedom, that is a sad sad shame!!!

DA i've read the article and of the three car bombs exploded only one was 'suicide' - which killed the only American to die on that day. The other two were not 'suicide bombs' and turned out to be more fatal to the Iraqis - including the 35 kids you quoted.

[Qac Qaac]

OG girl... I guess, there are first for everything..

[Xarago]

I usually dont participate in religious debates simply not only because my knowledge in that is lacking but the fact that I might say something might bring 'dembi' to me.

But to those who are saying it is outright Haram I would like to ask what does the religion say about how someone who his family,wife/husband, children, brothers,sisters ..etc., has been murdered by a unbelievers army should respond? What is the 'tarikh' open for such kind of a person? Because I believe above everything else my religion, Islam, is wise,big and wide and answers all questions.

Marka walalayaal ma ficna in aad noqotaan seef la bood, ee waxa habon arrinta sida ay tahey in aad uu qadarisaan.

Salafi halkan ayu wuxuu so daliley xadisyo lakiin adiga waxaa kugu sual ah ma waxaad ledahey dadkaas muslinka ah oo musliniimo lo leynayo hacmaha ha labtan mise ha iska celiyaan.

[OG_Girl]

Salafi thanks For compliment . But you can keep your Fatwa cause it NOT needed here."This is not suicide, it is martyrdom .."

 

Try "youR very kind" Fatwa and see if they buy it, Cause this is not suicide, So your Fatwa doesn't apply here. Tell Israelians and American cause they are who suicide!!.Seems they tought you to take Quraan and Ahadeth out of context with out knowing the real meaning.

-------------------------------------------------

 

"Open war

 

Hamas has branded the Israeli

action a ' war crime'

 

Hamas spokesman Mushir al-Masri, in the first official reaction for the resistance movement, said: "This ugly Israeli crime ... will not pass unpunished.

 

"It is an open war between the Zionists and us," he declared.

 

Another spokesman for the movement in Gaza, Sami Abu Zuhri, described the attack as "a war crime".

 

"When the Israeli army goes down to that level of criminality and uses its tanks and helicopters to violently target such camps, then this reflects a major war crime," Abu Zuhri told Aljazeera.

 

World silence

 

Abu Zuhri questioned the absence of the international community in condemning the action by "the so-called State of Israel".

 

 

Palestinian FM Nabil Shaath (L)

said strike was 'terror attack'

 

He said the US administration had previously condemned the Palestinian resistance. "Now, our people have been slain so violently but we have not heard a single condemnation by this administration."

 

Abu Zuhri vowed that the "Palestinian people will absolutely stand in the face of the crimes committed against it."

 

"Despite the US administration's conspiracy, the international weakness and Arab silence, the will of our people will never be weakened," he said. "The resistance will continue against this criminal enemy."

 

Highest toll

 

 

Palestinian Foreign Minister Nabil Shaath issued a statement branding it a "terrorist attack by Israeli occupation forces" and accusing Israel of trying to thwart efforts to restore calm.

 

The growing spiral of violence could further complicate Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's plan to withdraw troops and settlers from the occupied Gaza Strip by the end of 2005.

 

The strike inflicted the highest single-day death toll in the coastal enclave since 12 May, when troops killed 15 Palestinians in raids in Gaza City and the southern Gaza Strip.

 

Later that month, Israeli forces killed 41 Palestinians in the Gaza border town of Rafah during four days of fighting.

 

Crowding the bloodied halls of Gaza's Shifa Hospital, hundreds of Hamas men carried their dead comrades aloft crying "Allahu Akbar" (God is the greatest) and vowing revenge.

 

 

Aljazeera + Agencies

 

Link

 

 

You don't know what these people facing and you just running copy and paste Fatwa ..you can't support just Do favor and keep your fatwa cause we aint buying it :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

 

Salam

[Saalixa]

DEVILS ADVOCATE

what does the word sucide bomber mean to you and what implication do you get as soon as you hear it??? Arabs, muslims palestenians etc

 

So you cannot say you even know the real meaning of it and what it implys when you have been totally brainwashed by CNN and other amrican media that have given the word to be directed straight at the muslims when what they are doing is nothing but invading smaller countries and using weapons of mass destruction including israael which has the greatest amount of nuclear weapons. But you don't think of tham doing sucide or terrorsit acts because you are made to belive muslims are the suicide bombers. In American Media it's called SELECTION AND OMISSION. 95% of amerca didn't know how many children in Palestinee Iraq Afghanistan are dying from American and ISlaraeli Weapons and you don't target their promotion of racial genocide. I think your biased and brainwashed. Go and see were it says in the quran SUICIDE BOMBING. No Muslim nknew of the term until the west called them those fallocious words.

Anyways, are you implying that Jihad is haram ??? are you defaming the laws of which Islam is based??? And who gave you the position to pin point whats halaal and whats haram. No scholor in his highest degree or experience has been given the right to state whats haram or halaal unless of that which has already been prescribed by ALLAH

[Charisma]

salaam everyone,

There is one fact that ppl r missing n that is we r not in the situation of the ppl of palestien or any of those countries that r being occupied, u dont wake up every day n u r told who was killed!

wc family was thrown out of their home!

u have most likely enjoyed ur childhood playing n doing the things kids all over the world do, u did not shed a tear coz the gal u used to play with was taken by a gun fire of the enemy!

those ppl grow up with that!

i still have not answered the q though, i know killing is xaram, n yes sheikh al azhar said that too, but those ppl's lives have been taken away from them , so they do wt they have to do.

 

just watch al jazeera n u will know that there is no point of debatig about thsi topic.

 

wt we should all do, is pray for islam unity.