Dawlah Riddah: Alshabaab’s Takfeeri Undertones.

[NGONGE]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

^^I dont know how you missed it, but the gist of this discussion is whether there is a religious grounds for calling TFG a dawladah riddah, awoowe.

There are religious grounds for everything, saaxib. It's neither here nor there.

[xiinfaniin]

^^I disagree with the notion that everything one does could have religious grounds upon which it could be defended.

 

If one decides to pray 4 rak'ah for the Maghrib prayer, instead of 3, isn't safe to say there is no religious grounds for that decision?

[NGONGE]

^^ The Maghrib prayer is a black and white issue, saaxib. The one you're fighting over is not (as your hero Sheikh Sharif would attest). Your argument here is futile, saaxib.

[xiinfaniin]

^^So now you are not so sure whether 'there are religious grounds for everything', maaha

[NGONGE]

^^ It's my fault that I was trying to rescue you from Nur's scholarly onslaught. Iska wado, saaxib. Keep looking for the takfeeri undertones in a group that calls everyone a kaffir.

[xiinfaniin]

^^Perhaps you’ve been a bit hasty with your rescue mission, ma istiri

 

No amount of scholarly onslaught can defend a group that calls everyone a kaffir or find religious justifications for the theology that deems alshabaab’s opponents riddah. And that, good NGONGE, was the point of this discussion.

 

It’s settled now.

[Nur]

Xiin bro.

 

After all these side skirmishes die out (I Find Mzee Ngonge's argument compelling one for differentiating between the Maghrib prayer analogy and the complex Riddah issue), I am patiently waiting out for your point-per-point counter rebuttal of my long peace in which the religious basis of Riddah of the TFG could be scholarly substantiated if a real case would be presented to a Sovereign Islamic Sharia court in the Sovereign portion of what used to be Somalia( Where Ethiopia and its allies have no authority or warlord/Mercenary proxy power).

 

 

Nur

[xiinfaniin]

Nur, with all due respect brother, your post is a general description of known Islamic concepts. You failed to take up the issue I raised and conclude one way or other.

 

Remember I’ve asked the questions below:

 

Do you believe TFG is dawladah riddah? Its ministers? Soldiers? Those who support them and side with them ? and why?

 

Your long response, can at best be interpreted: I don’t know whether TFG is a dawladah riddah or not. At worst, your post can be used to conclude that TFG is on a slippery slope .

 

And that requires no point-by-point rebuttal from me, ya Nur.

 

As I said before, TFG IS NOT a kufr entity. Alshabaab IS NOT the righteous group in this fight. This fight is not about kufr vs. Islam. It’s a civil war between brothers. To think it’s Islamicly correct, and to justify it on the basis of defending Islam is the real tragedy. And that is fitnah I spoke about. It’s Sharif today, it will be Ummul tomorrow, and Sh. Cabdul Qadir next…wa hakathaa.

 

P.S. my friend NGONGE is missing the point of this discussion. Marka waa uu maadeeynayaa ee ha daliishan

[Nur]

Akhi Xiin

 

Assalamu Caleyukum Wa Raxmatullahi Wa Barakaatuh

 

 

You ask:

 

" on what basis did alshabaab found an entire segment of Somalia’s political community(including the late ministers of Shamow and Beledweyne terror acts) murtaddiin, that is apostates whom the spill of their blood is permissible?"

 

 

Bismillah wa bihi nastaciin:

 

 

The Issue of Kufr and Islam is the major driver of turmoil and upheavals in most Muslim countries. Coming back to my old Train analogy, if we Somalis are on a train and the public, specially the young ones who have not been corrupted by the material glamor, feel that this train we are riding as a nation is headed to the wrong destination. The old Train drivers, have failed big for the last twenty years and they are keeping the passengers in captivity of their never ending lies and promising them a better future.

 

Most older passengers, at least those who have been trained in the old school, have somewhat adjusted to the situation and feel a good country scenery peeking out of the train windows of the train to be good enough, since the final destination is anyone's guess. Many youthful passengers have also joined the passive old guard, however, a very small minority of the youth have taken matters into their hands.

 

They dared to say that the King has no clothes, that the train is destined to the wrong destination and further that the drivers are not qualified to lead the nation, they lack the certificate of total allegiance to the MASTER and are taking signaling from the enemy.

 

As I have written many times before, Islam and kufr are abstracts that can only be detected through action. A serious look at the action of many "Muslims" begs answers, and when a "Muslim" becomes an ally of the invading Ethiopians to appease the people, I am sure that they have a case, at least it calls for an examination, if their claim is supported by the Quraan and Sunnah or not.

 

InshAllah, that is what would be worth our while. If an scholarly treatment of this issue interests you, I would be more than glad to examine their claims in light of Quran and sunnah, hoping that we both abide with the findings. I hope that we do not start with an idea and the look for verses that support our ideas, but to divorce ourselves from our passing needs and look deeply into the validity of the verses and their dalaalah in our case.

 

Baarakallahu feek

 

Nur

[guled]

Asalam Aleikum

 

Xiinfanin you say that TFG is not a kufr entity then you should bring evidence to show that they are not upon kufr. As far im concerned they are outside the pale of islam for the following reasons but before i give the reason i thought to briefly define what riddah means just to clarify things

 

 

Apostasy (riddah) and going out of Islam are things that may be done in the heart, on the tongue or in one's actions.

 

Apostasy may take place in the heart, such as disbelieving in Allaah, or believing that there is another creator alongside Allaah, or hating Allaah or His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

 

Apostasy may take the form of words spoken on the tongue, such as defaming Allaah or the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

 

Or apostasy may take the form of outward physical actions, such as prostrating to an idol, mistreating the Mus-haf, or not praying.

 

you can read more about it on

http://islamqa.com/en/ref/14231

 

1. Ruling by other than what Allah swt revealed

 

Judging or ruling according to other than what Allaah has revealed is contrary to faith and Tawheed, which are Allaah’s rights. It may be counted as kufr akbar (greater kufr) or kufr asghar (lesser kufr) according to circumstances. Kufr akbar will make a person no longer a Muslim in cases such as the following:

 

If he issues laws and regulations other than those revealed by Allaah, because the right to issue laws belongs to Allaah alone, Who has no partner, and whoever “competes” with Him in a matter which is His alone is a mushrik, because Allaah says: “Or have they partners with Allaah (false gods), who have instituted for them a religion which Allaah has not allowed?” [al-Shooraa 42:21]

 

If the one who rules by other than that which Allaah has revealed denies the right of Allaah and His Prophet to rule, as is mentioned in Ibn ‘Abbaas’s comment on the aayah:“. . . And whoever does not judge by what Allaah has revealed, such are the kaafiroon.” [al-Maa’idah 5:44]. Ibn ‘Abbaas said: “Whoever rejects what Allaah has revealed is a kaafir.”

 

If he prefers the rule of falsehood to the rule of Allaah, whether this is in absolute terms or just in a few matters. Allaah says: “Do they then seek the judgement of (the Days of) Ignorance? And who is better in judgement than Allaah for a people who have firm Faith?” [al-Maa’idah 5:50]

 

If he regards the rule of Allaah and the rule of falsehood as equal. Allaah says: “. . . Then do not set up rivals unto Allaah (in worship) while you know (that He Alone has the right to be worshipped).” [al-Baqarah 2:22]

 

If he thinks that it is permissible to rule by something that contradicts the rule of Allaah and His Messenger, or he believes that it is not obligatory to rule according to what Allaah has revealed, or that the matter is optional. This is kufr which is contradictory to faith. Allaah revealed: “O Messenger! Let not those who hurry to fall into disbelief grieve you, of such who say: ‘We believe’ with their mouths but their hearts have no faith. And of the Jews are men who listen much and eagerly to lies - listen to others who have not come to you; they say, ‘If you are given this, take it, but if you are not given this, then beware!’ . . .” [al-Maa’idah 5:41]. He says: “Go to Muhammad (peace be upon him), and if he tells you that the ruling is lashes, accept it, but if he commands stoning, ignore what he says. Then Allaah revealed “. . . And whoever does not judge by what Allaah has revealed, such are the kaafiroon (disbelievers)” [al-Maa’idah 5:44].

 

If he does not rule according to what Allah has revealed out of stubbornness and arrogance, he is a kaafir and has left Islaam, even if he does not deny the rule of Allaah. Stubbornness and arrogance may mean negligence and turning away, as Allaah says: “Have you seen those (hypocrites) who claim that they believe in that which has been sent down to you, and that which was sent down before you, and they wish to go for judgement (in their disputes) to the Taaghoot (false judges, etc.) while they have been ordered to reject them. But Shaytaan wishes to lead them astray. And when it is said to them: ‘Come to what Allaah has sent down and to the Messenger,’ see they hypocrites turn away from you (Muhammad) with aversion.” [al-Nisaa’ 4:60-61]

 

Among the things that may be counted as ruling by other than that which Allaah revealed and kufr akbar is what Shaykh Muhammad ibn Ibraaheem said about man-made laws and ruling by them: “This is the worst, the most obvious and comprehensive opposition to sharee‘ah and rejection of Allaah’s laws. This is competing with Allaah and His Messenger, contradicting His laws in their preparation, support, structure, ruling and references.

 

The above is a summary of the things that may imply that ruling by other than that which Allah has revealed is a form of shirk akbar (major shirk):

 

(1) Ruling by other than that which Allaah has revealed.

 

(2) Denying the right of Allaah and His Messenger to rule.

 

(3) Preferring the rule of falsehood to the rule of Allaah, whether this is complete or only in a few matters.

 

(4) Regarding the rule of Allaah and the rule of falsehood as equal.

 

(5) Thinking that it is permissible to rule by something that contradicts what Allaah has revealed, or believing that ruling by what Allaah has revealed is not obligatory or is optional.

 

(6) Refusing to rule by what Allaah has revealed.

 

By examining this topic from different angels, it becomes clear that what is counted as kufr akbar is the following:

 

Abolishing sharee‘ah as the law governing a country, as Mustafa Kemal (“Ataturk”) did in Turkey, as he abolished the book Majallah al-Ahkaam al-‘Adliyyah which was based on the Hanafi madhhab, and replaced it with man-made laws.

 

Abolishing sharee‘ah courts.

 

Imposing man-made laws, such as Italian, French, German law, etc., to judge between the people, or mixing these laws and Sharee‘ah, as Genghis Khan did in his book al-Yaasiq, which combined laws from different sources; the ‘ulamaa’ (scholars) ruled that he was a kaafir.

 

Confining the role of sharee‘ah courts to so-called “civil” matters, such as marriage, divorce and inheritance.

 

Setting up non-sharee‘ah courts.

 

Discussing sharee‘ah in parliament and voting on it; this indicates that implementing sharee‘ah is conditional upon a majority vote.

 

Making sharee‘ah a secondary or main source, along with other sources of law. Even when they say that sharee‘ah is the primary source of legislation, this is still kufr akbar, because it means that they are allowing the adoption of laws from other sources too.

 

Stating in the clauses of legislation that reference may be made to international law, or stating in treaties that in the case of dispute, the matter may be referred to such-and-such non-Islamic court.

 

Criticizing sharee‘ah in public or in private, such as saying that it is rigid, incomplete or backward, or suggesting that it is incompatible with our times, or expressing admiration for non-Islamic laws.

 

As regards the question of when ruling by other than what Allaah revealed is kufr asghar, which does not exclude a person from the ummah of Islam:

 

the answer is that this may be the case when a ruler or judge passes judgement according to other than what Allaah revealed out of disobedience or on a whim, or as a favour to someone, or because he was bribed, and so on, although he believes that it is obligatory to judge according to what Allaah has revealed, and that what he has done is a sinful and haraam deed.

 

As regards the one who is governed by a non-Islamic law, if he refers to it out of choice, then he is a kaafir whose kufr akbar means that he has left Islaam. But if he has no choice but to refer to this law, and does so reluctantly, then he is not a kaafir, because if he had been able to resort to sharee‘ah, he would have done so, and he believes that this non-Islamic law is false.

 

 

http://islamqa.com/en/ref/974

[guled]

2. Helping the Kuffar against muslims

 

Praise be to Allaah.

 

The scholars of Islam have stated that it is not permitted to support the kaafirs against the Muslims, and that that is kufr (disbelief) and riddah (apostasy), because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

 

“O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Awliyaa’ (friends, protectors, helpers), they are but Awliyaa’ of each other. And if any amongst you takes them (as Awliyaa’), then surely, he is one of them”

 

[al-Maa'idah 5:51]

 

The fuqaha’ of Islam, the imams of the Hanafi, Maaliki, Shaafa’i and Hanbali madhhabs, and other fuqaha’, have stated in their books that it is haraam to sell them anything that may help them against the Muslims, such as weapons, equipment, riding beasts, etc. So it is not permissible to give them food or to sell them food, drink, water, tents, trucks, vehicles, or to make contracts with them to provide maintenance, transaportation, etc. All of that is haraam and the one who consumes profits on such transactions is consuming haraam things, and the Fire is more fitting for him.

 

It is not permissible to sell them even a date or to give them anything that they can use against their enemies. Whoever does that deserves Hell, and the Fire is more fitting for all evil earnings. Indeed this is one of the most evil of evil things.

 

It is not permissible to give them anything that may give them the slightest help against the Muslims.

 

Al-Nawawi said in al-Majmoo’:

 

With regard to selling weapons to ahl al-harb (those who wage war against the Muslims), it is haraam according to scholarly consensus.

 

Ibn al-Qayyim said in I’laam al-Muwaqqi’een:

 

Imam Ahmad said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade selling weapons at times of fitnah (tribulation)… It is obvious that selling them is helping others in sin and transgression. This also applies to every sale, rental or exchange that helps people to disobey Allaah, such as selling weapons to kaafirs, aggressors and bandits… or renting one’s house to someone who will set up a place for sin in it, or selling candles to someone who will use them to disobey Allaah, and other actions which help people to do that which Allaah hates and is angry with.

 

End quote.

 

In al-Mawsoo’ah al-Fiqhiyyah (25/153) it says:

 

It is haraam to sell weapons to ahl al-harb (those who are waging war against Islam) or to those who are known as bandits who attack Muslims or who stir up fitnah among them. Al-Hasan al-Basri said: It is not permissible for a Muslim to take weapons or horses to the enemies of the Muslims which will strengthen them against the Muslims, or anything that will help them to acquire weapons and horses, because selling weapons to ahl al-harb strengthens them to fight the Muslims and motivates them to declare war and continue fighting.

 

This issue is not the matter of ordinary or minor sins, rather it is a matter that has to do with the basis of ‘aqeedah (belief) and Tawheed (belief in the Oneness of Allaah), and the Muslim’s support and loyalty towards the Religion of Allaah and his disavowal of the enemies of Allaah. This is what was stated by the imams in their books.

 

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in his Fataawa (1/274):

 

The scholars of Islam are unanimously agreed that whoever supports the kaafirs against the Muslims and helps them in any way is a kaafir like them as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

 

“O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Awliyaa’ (friends, protectors, helpers), they are but Awliyaa’ of each other. And if any amongst you takes them (as Awliyaa’), then surely, he is one of them. Verily, Allaah guides not those people who are the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers and unjust)”

 

[al-Maa'idah 5:51].

http://islamqa.com/en/ref/33691