Sharif Ahmed attacks IndaCade Dahir Aways

[Emperor]

^Did you really say that, I though he was making up

 

And is that true you retracted when you learned of his Fatxu Majiid knowledge

[Abtigiis]

^War anagaa wax aragnay. Hedde adeeer Durbaankan Sheikh Shariif baad cayday ahi iga hadhi maayaan umaleyne sideen yeelaa. I have apologised not once but maybe threee times. And you just found Xoogsade curious for reminding you what you said sometime ago. Of course, the master always gets away with explanations. The thing is if your problem with me was that outburst, it is fair and I will do anything in my capacity to show how sorry I am about that. But it seems you have gone to other formulations of me, based on one incident. Is that fair? It doesn't matter if you are fair to me or not, please reason with yourself. You haven't said you are a supporter of the Sharif, perhaps that would have spared me a lot of laments I threw againt you. And I even hinted at my error of judgement on your political affiliations. No hard feelings, but I find you unapologetic and uncompromising. It is not because I am a wild dog ruuning lose that I am taking responsiblity and admitting my mistakes repeatedly. It is because I believe that I should not continue with mistakes. It is a dominant human urge to do that. Like you are doing.

 

Just go and see how many names and shapes you have given me. Is that fair? you are this, you are that. All this for a mistake I have apologised at multiple times? I don't think it is right.

[Nephissa]

L0L! Add "maskaxda shiddeysan" to your list .

 

Awoowe Xiin, naga daa haddaa, bes awoowe!

[Abtigiis]

^ the list is inexhaustible, nepthys. This insufferable man fired all at his disposal at me, all day. There were times I wondered if I am recieving all the insults he saved for any SOLer who goes wayward. Balaayaa igu dhacday.

 

Naa malaha Yaaxaskii la sheegi jiray oo gaboobay unbaan afka uga galay anoo ordi, maad wax ii sheegtaan ood i qabataan. Waan yaabay oo waxaan idhi war raggan war ka daayaay ba la odhanayn ee la gugu daawanayo maxay ahaayeen??

[LayZie G.]

LOL@xoogsade, did Xiin really accuse you of that or shactaro ayey ka eheed?

 

Xiinka waa ragiisa.

 

ps:ABTIGIISA, count your lucky stars. I too waan kugu qarasbaxi lahaa, but after I finished reading the thread, I felt nothing but sympathy for you. Next time, remember to keep the good sheikh's name out of your perverted carab.

 

PSPS:kasha,lol@adoonka. Ok jareerow, whatever you say.

[Abtigiis]

^ I don't think i would have had the shoulders to bear any more bombardment. No excuse for my language, but I still believe the Sheikh made a gross political miscalulation. Let not my bad selection of words to critique his stance shroud my firm belief that one man can't deliver peace. If peace has to talked about, it has to be with all those are playing in the field. beyond symbolism, hand shakes between him and the TFG would have yielded no substantive results. That is my opinion. I see it is not entirely popular.

[Nephissa]

Originally posted by Abtigiis & Tolka:

Naa

malaha Yaaxaskii la sheegi jiray oo gaboobay unbaan afka uga galay anoo ordi, maad wax ii sheegtaan ood i qabataan. Waan yaabay oo waxaan idhi war raggan war ka daayaay ba la odhanayn ee la gugu daawanayo maxay ahaayeen??

Ma anaa 'naa' i leedahay markaan kuu soo baxay oo Xiin kaa qab-qabtay? . Waa kugu macdahay hadaa in lagu calaaliyay oo lagu tufay. Illaahoow muu mar 10naad soo noqdaa hakugu joog-joogsadee.. :rolleyes:

[Abtigiis]

^ waan wareeray abti iag raali noqo. Jilbisyo ayaan afka u galay oo qado iyo cashaba i seejiyay. Bal imikaan wax doonan ee,,,,mahadsanid. Though your rescuse mission was more of collecting the dead bodies than saving lives. I mean waad la daahtay. Miyaan noolahay hadda,,,,,,,,

[xiinfaniin]

Originally posted by Emperor:

^Did you really say that, I though he was making up

 

Off course I did not say that emp. By coming down hard on Mogadishu warlords and their supporters, Xoogsade of then took it personally what Xoogsade of now would not. That was all.

 

A & T, do you think, I mean, seriously, that Sharif is alone in this? What’s your opinion on the other well-respected scholars who were in Jabbuuti team? You’re making it seem like the Sheikh deserted his team and went alone in this mission of peace. Is that deliberate or what?

 

Wallaahi this is not funny saaxiib. I just don’t understand when people who live in relatively very luxurious life styles object to the notion of making peace whatever it takes. Why would those who are in the qurbaha object to compromise in the Somali conflict? Isn’t that stance itself the peak of hypocrisy? I mean they ran from a civil war, perhaps sponosored their families, and collected their lives and live in a very compromised life style, yet here they come preaching mulish political positions ignoring all the facts in their disposal. What warrants that yaa A & T? Why do you think folks like Sharif are compelled to inter a dialogue with the very entity that helped Courts down fall? Is there a precedent for what they are doing in both world political histories, Islamic or otherwise? What do you know about how adversities that confronted out beloved Rasuul was overcome? If his approach of dealing non Muslims, hostile enemies was strategy of patience driven by a vision of how to win tomorrow instead of being consumed by emotion and anger that do not get you far in achieving your goals, what better alternative do you have in dealing with your fellow Muslims who are determined to finish you off by any means? Do you think Mohamed Dheere and his supporters are kuffaars or Yey and his political base are bunch of infidels? And even if they were, what do you propose to be a wining strategy to deal with a people who are part of Somali polity? Just throw a bomb there and here in a very limited theatre of Somali conflict, namely Benaadir and its surroundings while the rest of your country serve restive logistical passage and staging area for the other side? I mean did you bother to give a serious thought for the notions of continues war among what is a very tired shacab in my mind that you seem to propelling here saaxiib?

 

War dadkani maxay ka sammaysay yihiin, qalbi diiraba ma leh mar marka qaarkood!

[Abtigiis]

Adeer Xiin

Your generalisations about people in Qurbaha is unfounded. Nor the whereabouts of me or the luxuries you talk about. That comes from a man who just minutes ago accused me of half-truths. Sheikh Sharif is not alone in Djibouti. I was talking about him and all the good people around him. That doesn't alter my conclusions.

 

On the strategy of Sulux to attain lasting solution, I don't share your optimism; but I can see your point. I don't say it is not wise to use that method,I am only very pessimistic of any good result to materialize from it, for reasons I have outlined earlier on this thread. Yet, I don't object to the peace talks if the Sharif has a fallback plan should things go wrong. Just as you wish to see a peaceful Somalia, I do also want to see the same. Our strategies differ because our analysis diverge. No one can predict which is to prove the trump card to success, with certainty.

 

Abdullahi Yusuf, Mohamed Dheere are Somalis who unfourtunately are now working with what I see as the enemy. Provided that the enemy leaves, they will have to be judged by the Somali people. Prior to that, if their inclusion into a peace process can result in anything meanigful, I don't object to it. Nation-bulding needs compromise and forgiveness. We are not in that situation right now. Lest you will say this is also half-truth, it is an opinion.

 

I admire your optimism, but you must see where my argument comes from. Ethiopia will not allow a peace settlement among Somali parties for now. Nor do the US wish to see that. For the Americans, hunting few men is much more important than the state of the Somali people. I believe I am not talking from hypothetical point of view. I have met people from the International Crisis Group, the UN, and influential Embassy's in East Africa at differnt time. Not that I am a big fish in any sense, but while they were gathering information on the situation. What I heard and saw is in my mind. I will tell you Greg( an American) in one of these organisations, asked me what I think of Somalia. I have played the dumb guy and started singing with his favourite line. I told him now that the ICU is routed, there is no basis for extremism in Somalia. I was trying to tell them that a longer stay of Ethiopians in Somalia might revive strong nationalistic and Islamic sentiments. It was a week or so after Muqdisho was invaded by Ethiopia. What he said to me still rings in my mind. " But all kids are going to Madrasas and women are still veiled?". So, I know where the fight is aimed at.

 

My assertions about Ethiopia might be entirely flawed. But It is based on my expereices and exposure to the mentality of the ruling class in that country. I don't want to twist anybody's arms to agree with me, but I also expect others not to do so.

 

Overall, your intention is good but I differ on your methods and recommonedations.

[Abtigiis]

Shacab daalay and continuous war miyaad tidhi. That is what Tigre elders told Meles in 1985 when the village of Hawzeen was obliterated and nearly 13,000 civillians were killed. It is what Hamsaeen and Akala-guzaay elders told Isayas Afeworki when Nakfa was taken and thousands of Eritean men and women died of hunger. It is probably what the Algerian elders told to those who faced French occupation, and it is what Bosninans told Alija Izetbegovich when he stood up against Serbs fervent nationalism.

 

There are losses and tragedies in a struggle. You take that as an endogenous factor when you are in a war. It is not because you have a softer heart, or we are barbarians that we espouse that line and you oppose it. Throughout history that debate has raged.We merely find ourselves on the two sides of the divide. I hope you see it that way.

[xiinfaniin]

A&T, let me see if I read you right.

 

1- you are not living in qurbaha.

 

I stand corrected if you are not a qurbo man. But without impeaching your credibility I do believe it's unlikely that you live in Somalia. But the role of Qurbo folks in Somali politics is not contingent upon the whereabouts of A & T adeer. So my assertion of the existence of a negative Diaspora influence stands unscathed. That you attempted to smash it with all your might is noted.

 

 

2- you don’t object to peace talks---you just want to know what's the fallback strategy incase things don’t go as planned.

 

If indeed that’s your position, you must have poorly communicated it in this thread. All the subsequent conclusions of many nomads here were fairly based on your replies in this thread that suggested a completely different stance. You may be tempted to fault our comprehension but, yaa A & T, be aware because your tone and presentation of your views will still stand to fail you. Perhaps a larger question is why did it take you so long to say you agree with Sharif in principle, if that’s the position you take?

 

3-Your reservation about the feasibility of peace talks rests on your knowledge that Ethiopia and America would not allow it.

 

Adeer, if you have the conviction and the political conscious you don’t need to wait until the policies of the entities you mention change. Knowing the rationale of their positions is helpful as you commence your peace making efforts, but forgoing the whole processes because of the probability of that certain powers will oppose it is a sign of timidity. There is a risk-taking element in these efforts. That’s how good objectives are advanced. No one knows how this will in the end turn out. But the alternative of doing nothing or continuing with current course is worse. Perhaps nothing is more scandalous than rejecting these efforts, good efforts I may add, out of timidity of the outcome. We must try to see if this is a feasible route to take.

 

In any case, you must know that Somalia is beyond mere protests of the formality and the style of how those who are part of our conflict meet or talk. The point is for them to meet, and see if they can agree on something. As I said before peace is most unarticulated need that Somalis have today. As long it comes about with less violence it will be a huge welcome for those who need it most. Those who think this is a contest of bravery miss the point for it’s not.

 

Sharif is a leader. I wanted him to lead. And lead he did. As long he shares the vision of a Somalia that’s relatively peaceful he gets my support. Those who supposedly be supporting but have difficulties seeing his rationale for entering dialogue with tfg, and even with Ethiopia will ultimately support him if he succeeds as long they are sincere. Those who don’t share his goals and are after quick wins, and want to exact vengeance will not find any satisfaction in what Shariif does or will do in the future.

[xiinfaniin]

Originally posted by Abtigiis & Tolka:

There are losses and tragedies in a struggle. You take that as an endogenous factor when you are in a war. It is not because you have a softer heart, or we are barbarians that we espouse that line and you oppose it. Throughout history that debate has raged.We merely find ourselves on the two sides of the divide. I hope you see it that way.

A & T, I don’t get you, man! You are risking contradicting what you wrote a little while ago above. Perhaps you think sophistry and immoderate talkativeness will win for you this debate. What I object is not that people die in conflicts; rather it’s the apparent lack of strategy as to how to address the complexity of Somali conflict. What you have is a compounded civil war by a hostile and opportunistic Ethiopian occupation in certain parts and her influence in other parts. Unless you want us to ignore the fact that most Somalis are not fighting this war, in fact a negligible percentage fights it, it’s quite simplistic to suggest the fight in Xamar and the ku-dhufoo-ka-dhaqaaq in selected villages and cities is the way to go in liberating Somalia. That’s not to smear the alshabaab fighters who carry out those activities. Their struggle and fight is admirable and their shortcomings are understandable and excusable. Their strategy however is not. But you neither struggle nor fight in this conflict hence your tough talk is totally unwarranted adeer.

 

I need not waste my time refuting the false analogies you espoused above…

[Abtigiis]

Adeer

Your unrestrained name calling apart, you hardly added any meaningful dimension to our debate. It took you nearly 5 pages to tell me you are not TFG supporter. Why then decry it if you didn't know my stance on Shariif? You have assumed the role of the judge and the jury, and at times speak on behalf of "many Nomades" like a super-delegate in this forum. I understood your strategy, and that risk is not one I am prepared to take. Curiously, you haven't said anything on mitigating contingencies if that gamble fails. And don't expect me to go with your views just because you have repeated it over and over.

 

It has also come to my attention, that there are a group of old guards who have successfully managed to control the direction of debates in this forum by discouraging different ideas through a lethal blend of bullying,merciless attacks on personalities, and over-played squeals of "you are cyper-jihadist, you are uninformed" hullabaloos. To the extent many people have been compelled to be reticent on expressing their views particularly when it is supportive of the liberation war. A war you discredit supposedly because it hasn't achieved its heyday and is still in infancy. Strategies are not evaluated over a short period of time, and it might take long time for the forces of resistance before they transform from hit and run tactics to full blown engagements with the enemy. No contradictions if you can comprehend simultaneous arguments. The war must continue, regardless of talks. There are precedences of that and You know it. I don't see Sheikh Sharif and co, as a separate entity. For me, they fall within the enclave of liberation fighters. What I object is if they go it alone as a faction. They have to convince their colleagues, or get their acts tactfully (endorsed by others). Others who regardless of what you think of them are the ones capable of delivering peace, i.e, Al-Ashabab. The people in Djibouti cannot deliver that by themselves. The only impact of a partial peace deal will be a weakened opposition (politically), but no end of hostility( militarily).

 

I am also surprised you imply if one is not in Somalia, then he is in Qurbo. I think Somali's live in many parts of East Africa. That is just a gentle reminder, though. Your habit of saying, 'my comments/opinions/utterances are unscathed, hardly impeachable,validated" is absurd. For that is what others have to say about it. Adigii umbaa isu makhraati furaya!! I admire that you are full of your self and confident. But remember there is a thin line between too much self-belief and arrogance!

 

I never go for debates to win or lose. It is to convince or be convinced. Your approach is noted, nonetheless. So, will it suffice if I throw the towel and congratulate you for winning? You won it, saaxiib.

[NGONGE]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

A & T, all are deserved smack-downs!

 

Baashi, A & T is a disturbed character. He is after Sharif for no other than the reasonable position the good Sheekh took regarding somlai conflict. There are others in this forum who will come out soon in support of such character assasinations in the name of resistane and liberations.

I wrote the following TWO YEARS ago and the Courts (with Sh. Ahmed) are still the same old bumbling group.

 

posted November 02, 2006 09:43 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RC,

The Courts are the flavour of the month nowadays. It's not difficult to understand why people are supporting them. Deep in my heart of hearts I too wish, pray and hope that they turn out to be what they claim to be. However, I'm doubtful, cynical and unsure about them.

 

What increases my unease about this whole thing is that in the few months that the ICU have been hogging the Somali political scene their loyal supporters have not sought to enlighten us about them or draw us a solid picture of how they expect them to maintain the peace in Somalia. Everything I've heard so far has been done as a reaction to events and not as part of a proper plan and suitable strategy!

 

Whenever I read what the understandable questions that those opposing the courts have asked, I always saw the same old replies: The courts have brought peace and order, etc. Yet, I know and you know that this is not enough. After all, this is exactly the same argument that I've been having with the Somaliland people about that country. They too used the argument of peace and order and how different they were from the rest of Somalia! When one removes emotions out of the equation, peace and order alone is not enough. Those in Somaliland had it for sixteen years and still did not get any recognition! I always believed that the reason for that was the lack of a coherent strategy and I suspect that the downfall of the Courts will also come as a result of a lack of strategy. Then again, maybe I'm wrong and maybe there is a real plan in play that we are not being told about!

 

Like I said in a previous thread already, give the Courts eighteen months and if they're still in the ascendancy then they'll be worth one's support and if they're not, well, we await the next new group to claim authority over Somalia.

It is politics and a man is judged by the positions he takes. If people character assassinate the man, it is because of his deeds and actions. It may be unfair because his intentions all along might have been good but intentions don't matter, it's deeds that does. The man has been a total failure and should (in all honesty) depart from the political arena.