Sharif Ahmed attacks IndaCade Dahir Aways

[Abtigiis]

Emperor

 

Were you against war when Abdullahi Yusuf used Ethiopia to murder hundreds of pious Somali youth he labelled Al-Itixaad? When he killed his own clansmen while wrestling for power with Jamac Ali Jamac? When his troops guided Ethiopian army and thousands of Somali youth perished in Iidale and Diinsoor? When lower Jubba was carpet bombed by C130 and he supported that? When poision was sprayed on Somali's in Muqdisho few days after it fall? When whole settlements were indiscriminately bombed leading to death, maiming of mothers and minors?

 

Of all people, you are the least qualified to talk about peace. Now, shameless as ever, you stand up and talk of PEACE?!!Peace, because your uncle and his foreign powers are feeling the ire of the people? Peace, because you realised you can't exterminate the people of Moqdisho (whom only few months back you were predicting their imminent extinction)? I am not for your peace, adeer.

 

Worse, I don't want your Somalia which will be reconstructed with the dead woods of the yesteryears and their rotten clan philosophy. I don't want a vengeful Somalia that will have grudges against sections of its own people because they evicted 'reer-hebel' from the capital in 1990s. And I know that vengence is one big motivating factor for you. Because I belong to the umbrella you ascribe to, I am an insider and I heard it from your people-from the horse's mouth ( Yey et al). Time and again.

 

Unlike you, I don't rely on individuals. It is bad for you Sharif hasn't left the noble cause (despite your lies), but even he is inconsequential for the success of our cause. It is championed by millions of Somali's. It doesn't rely on craven submissiveness to an old enemy. It is not based on singing with the wind without regard to morality and dignity. It doesn't lean on the devotion of outcasts and warlords whose days are numbered!!

 

Mine is a cause that relies on morally determined people, on the noble Somali people and their progeny, and on the knowledge that the ideals we fight for (Somalinimo and Islamnimo) are IMMORTAL!!

[xiinfaniin]

^^Saaxiib,read what you wrote ealier below.

 

Originally posted by Abtigiis & Tolka:

Sheekh Shariif

waa macaan-jecel tuug ah

. He has always been power-hungry and was the only one who gave himself up when the going got tough! He is hell bent on short changing the Somali reliberation cause for a throne.

Tuug weeye

!

Amazingly enough you went on lecturing about patience and other good stuff in this thread. If you ask me, you did not only speak from both sides of you mouth in the same time, but it also seems that you did speak from your other low cavity behind!

 

In this thread I noticed you were cheerleading defamers slander on Shariif's character! Seems like a trend is emergingg here, does it not?

[Abtigiis]

As a human being, I was overcome with anger that time. Nothing unique. I apologise for that outburst, maybe the manner I did express myself was wrong but I essentially retain my misgivings about this man. But, remember I have also defended him when some wrongly accused him of having blood on his hand.

 

While it is good to be patient in all cases, the patience I referred to earlier was about standing your ground in the face of pressure, as in the case in the struggle for liberation in Somalia.

 

As to the cavities you talked about, I strongly object to your profanity. And don't you feel you forfeited whatever moral high ground you would have held over me with that vulgar language?!

 

Anyway, respond to posts appropriately instead of lurking behind the shadows only to jump on your prey when you think he plunged into a trap. Sheeka horaad daba socotaa!!

 

There is no pattern or whatever you may think that is developing here. If at all, it is one of fair-mindedness and impartiality. Don't mistake that for flip-flopping. I know opinionated fools equate inflexibity with having a principled stance.

[Paragon]

^^Right on, Abtigiis.

 

As much as I respect the Shariif, it appears as though the man is metamorphosizing into a classic appeaser.

 

God knows how things will turn out in the near future, but the Shariif's reconciliatory stance really reflects alot of weakness on his character.

 

Having said so, I can imagine developing similar views to those of Abtigiis , if the Shariifka continues on his current path. The man needs to grasp the reality and understand that appeasement of Ethiopians would yield no results.

 

Amxaartu af aan gowrac ahayn garan-mayaan.

[Baashi]

The man is no appeaser. There is nothing wrong with his character. It just so happened that he sees things differently than Col. Uways et al. Prof. Caddow -- a man who wears many hats -- is on the same page with Sh. Ahmed too.

 

Courts are divided on how to take on the monster they are wrestling with. One faction says "bring him on" a la G. Bush famous line. They are willing to pay the price. The other faction took diametrically opposed position. They argue that if the goal is to dislodge the Tigre from Somali soil then there are several other routes they can embark on. They are of the view that all options are on the table.

 

Pick ur faction but don't you employ ad hominem plz.

[xiinfaniin]

Originally posted by Abtigiis & Tolka:

Sheeka horaad daba socotaa!!

 

A & T, adeer your intolerance about the diverse views even within the segment that you claim you support is indicative of one thing, namely your narrow-mindedness. If the minor disagreements between the sahwah leaders prompted you to impeach the integrity of one of Somalia’s few good leaders (Sharif), it’s fair to say that you have no claim to the noble causes you seem to be defending!

 

With that said, I understand your source of frustration and impatience. What I called you out on though was your easiness in dolling out accusations against a man I deeply respect and honor his efforts to see Somali conflict resolved. You may find it opportunistic, but your continuous assault on this man warranted a response, and you got one.

[Baashi]

Xiinoow don’t mind Abtigiis. Read his posts again plz. All he wants is Somalis to prevail in this fight. The trouble with that terrain of thought is that there are no one front line here (hek there is no one UIC front too) and he seems to have chosen to put all of his eggs in Col. Uways and Col Turki basket.

 

The underlying myth in all of this is that the civil war has ended and Somalis have put their quarrel aside. Reading some of the emotionally loaded diatribe posted on this corner of the forum, one would come away with the notion that whatever animosity that may have existed between Somalis has evaporated the moment Tigre mercenaries set their foot in Somali soil. They sound as if no rancor, no bitterness, no deep-seated ill will toward each other, no residual grievances now exit -- it is all dandy! Folks are all united in their determination to confront the Tigre mercenaries by any means necessary!!

 

Notice how the arguments for continuation of hostilities are formulated. In one stripe it is struggle for sharia-based governance. In another stripe it is a liberation struggle! All principled and freedom loving Somalis are all up in arms is the thesis advanced here by keyboard commandos. Somalis here refers to real and noble Somalis who know something about how precious freedom is.

 

The rest are either collaborators or pansies lacking courage and valor. If this sounds a concerto from the propaganda symphony to you it is because it flies in the face of the truth. And it is because you know for real that only handful of Somalis from certain region majority of whom belong to certain segment of the population are carrying out all of the missions. Why?

 

You know that Col. Hassan Turki followers operating in Juba valley and Col. Uways loyalist putting up tough resistance in Benadir and parts of Central region are footing the bill in its entirety here. The rest are either sitting out of the battle, join the other side, or see the whole thing as an extension of the civil war now in its fifth gear. Courts’ support has not materialized into real asset for the two groups mentioned above. Objective observers know why. It has to do with disagreement of the nature of the fight. Simply put, Somalis are not on the same page on this one.

 

Now I would have respected their argument had they acknowledged the facts as they are and qualified their forceful pitch for continuation of the fight against Tigre and TFG loyalist as an existential fight for post-conflict Somalia free of foreign interference. Making that sort of argument means one would must forge unity to face and defeat disciplined and resourceful army. It follows that one must be more willing to sit down his fellow Somalis and see to it he plays one's crds right.

 

Awoowe your innocent confidence that there could be two sides to this hotly contested Somali civil war is not getting a fair hearing from this joint. Your insistence on the maxim that house divided by itself cannot succeed is lost on the ad hominem argument in keeping with rhetorical habits of latte-sipping armchair generals.

[Abtigiis]

Xiin

Please go back and count the amount of labels you have sticked to me over a short period of time. They don't seem to suggest cool-headedness either. Do they?

Intolerant,narrowminded,immature (baluuqa-is-mood, speaking on the lower cavity, double-talker. These are the ones I remember. Hope it will ease the search. I am sure you will find yourself, if you look at the mirror. It is easy to lecture people, the hard part is to look at oneself.

 

Bashe

Han kaan kuu qabaad jabisay. It is amazing how you brought Hassen Turki into the discussion. It is not by happenstance. It is to say because this man is from so and so, he is supporting that cause. Well, that presupposes every somali is putting tribal agenda into his analysis or political position. And it doesn't give the benefit of the doubt to anyone. It is intersting that had I been with Colonel Yey's side, some others (this time not you) would have easily understood my motivations as well- by just inflating one or two steps up my geneology. There, I would have belonged to a different group driven by vengence who came back to Mogadisho to ransack. That is the simple somali logic of reasoning. In your reply, you displayed that. Nothing more. Why? because you are a product of the old system and you beleive in that logic!

 

Unfortunately, my motives have nothing to do with whatever you have in mind. In case it will clear the mist for you (though unlikely), I will tell you where I am coming from. I want the Somali nation to live in dignity and unity. I oppose Ethiopia's occupation of Somalia. I belittle the magnitude of the hostilities among Somali clans you seem to beat out of proportion. I don't care who controls which town,and who lives where. I may be a dreamer and an idealist, but it is a path I chose to follow. Certainly, it is better than becoming an expert in clan feuds and apologist of traitors. Beyond that, I don't think I need to explain myself to you-a man who sees things very simplistically: Clan so and so are with X, and clan so and so are with Y. That is not correct. Tell me which clan is not in the TFG? Tell me which clan is not in the ARS? or the courts?

 

Sometimes, people reveal more about themselves the more they try to hide behind innuendous. Mind you I haven't confirmed your conjectures on who I am. Yacni, Qoladaan ahay. For that gives you the answer!Huh!

[Emperor]

Originally posted by Abtigiis & Tolka:

Emperor

 

Were you against war when Abdullahi Yusuf used Ethiopia to murder hundreds of pious Somali youth he labelled Al-Itixaad? When he killed his own clansmen while wrestling for power with Jamac Ali Jamac? When his troops guided Ethiopian army and thousands of Somali youth perished in Iidale and Diinsoor? When lower Jubba was carpet bombed by C130 and he supported that? When poision was sprayed on Somali's in Muqdisho few days after it fall? When whole settlements were indiscriminately bombed leading to death, maiming of mothers and minors?

 

Of all people, you are the least qualified to talk about peace. Now, shameless as ever, you stand up and talk of PEACE?!!Peace, because your uncle and his foreign powers are feeling the ire of the people? Peace, because you realised you can't exterminate the people of Moqdisho (whom only few months back you were predicting their imminent extinction)? I am not for your peace, adeer.

 

Worse, I don't want your Somalia which will be reconstructed with the dead woods of the yesteryears and their rotten clan philosophy. I don't want a vengeful Somalia that will have grudges against sections of its own people because they evicted 'reer-hebel' from the capital in 1990s. And I know that vengence is one big motivating factor for you. Because I belong to the umbrella you ascribe to, I am an insider and I heard it from your people-from the horse's mouth ( Yey et al). Time and again.

 

Unlike you, I don't rely on individuals. It is bad for you Sharif hasn't left the noble cause (despite your lies), but even he is inconsequential for the success of our cause. It is championed by millions of Somali's. It doesn't rely on craven submissiveness to an old enemy. It is not based on singing with the wind without regard to morality and dignity. It doesn't lean on the devotion of outcasts and warlords whose days are numbered!!

 

Mine is a cause that relies on morally determined people, on the noble Somali people and their progeny, and on the knowledge that the ideals we fight for (Somalinimo and Islamnimo) are IMMORTAL!!

 

This a discussion and debate forum, no room for shouting and emotional speeches, waxaad isoo xasuusisay Badariyada Kaniisadaha sida xamaasada badan kor ula qayliya waxaan waxba kajirin , perhaps you have over listened the speeches of Rev. Martin Luther King, next time try to listen to the emontionless softly spoken wisdom of Malcolm X (Bro. Shabaz). I only have this messege for you, we will be non violent to those who non violent to us and will be non non violent to those who are non non violent to us, in other words if you want peace then its peace that you get but if you want war I promise you will get the war... That's my postion and TFG's, no one is buying time or escaping defeat you musn't misread the messege... Logic and commensense dictates that and which goes along the line of this Arabic wisdom "Ifcal maa shi'ta Kamaa tadiinu tudaan"...

 

 

Adeer waa Maalin Jimce ah, Jamaacad barakaysan ayaan soo tukaday, khamiis cad ayaa qabaa tusbaxaygana waa lulayaa, wardi fiicanna waa ii socdaa, please don't interrupt... Maxaa la Oran jiray "Jimce Jicmatul Muslimiin... " please finish off the rest... Cantabaqash iyo cilaaq diyaar uma ahi, ha iga qasin.

[xiinfaniin]

A & T, all are deserved smack-downs!

 

Baashi, A & T is a disturbed character. He is after Sharif for no other than the reasonable position the good Sheekh took regarding somlai conflict. There are others in this forum who will come out soon in support of such character assasinations in the name of resistane and liberations.

[Abtigiis]

^ Please add 'disturbed character' to the my preceding reply to you. Adigu iska wad uun. I think we have finished the debate on issues with you. It can't surely go beyond this.

 

Emperor

 

I don't think I have shouted. I have stated facts, and then gave my opinion. Of course, Some facts are difficult to swallow for some people. I know that. So I understand if you feel aggrieved.

 

In Bashe's rather weird logic, You guys (Xiin, Bashe,Emperor) must all be from the same region!! Just kidding.

[Fabregas]

Sheikh Shariff has sang all the correct nasheeds thus far. From wearing a white khamees; to dressing in military gear, whilst clutching an AK47; and finally to being the nationalistic politician with the white Kufi!

 

Now the going gets tough and the good Sheikh has to be a real, shrewd and calculating politician. If He truly believes that the route to salvation is negotiation/peace talks with the TFG(UN as he calls it), then, ultimately, this mean distancing himself from the Asmara/ICU groups or perhaps going his own way. The other option is convincing the ICU/Asmara leaders of joining the talks, which seems unlikely!

 

 

The Good Sheikh could go it alone or attempt to make a new power base from those of the ICU, Asmara group and those others who are for the so-called " reconcialition route". Otherwise it would make absolutely no sense for him to attend the Djibouti Talks and claim to represent the ICU/Asmara Alliance since they don't hold a position of consensus with regards to holding talks with TFG. If he successfully drives the peace talks train and Ethiopians agree to withdraw, then obviously the hawkish characters in the ICU and Asmara will have less of a cause to fight.

 

On the other hand, if the talks fail and the Ethiopian Troops are still bombarding Somalis, then the good Sheikh will become an isolated figure in Somali politikz, whilst the the "lets fight to the end boyz" will have more influence!

 

That is an immense task the Sheikh is setting up for, that is, if actually makes a stand and takes the path he truly believes in! No need to call him names for merely taking a different route!

[Emperor]

Abtigis, I can present more facts trace and list the dirty tricks and innocents blood at the hands of Aweeys and your hero druglord Indhacedde for days in SOL... I just am not interested, its not what this debate is about, you have the tendency to go overboard like a loose canan, as if you are talking to yourself... You always deliver your preconceived outbusts unrelated to the debate at hand...

 

I am just not in the mood, I feel for your pain of losing both the war and peace, trust me if Shariif as in the case takes peace he will come a winner in this game, we will debate on this in SOL in the coming months Insha'alaah.

[xiinfaniin]

A & T, playing the victim card miyaa adeer. You are busted and you have no sound argument here saaxiib.

 

 

Edit: Here is what you truely blve...

 

Originally posted by Abtigiis & Tolka:

... Perhaps, as a TFG-loyalist, you may be (you are) happy about it. But, don't expect me to be oblivious to the dangers of his unwise move. I am not surprised if you clap for his indiscretions. It is natural. Who wouldn't relish the downfall of his enemies? Perhaps you see it that way. For the success or failure of the useless TFG is the ultimate measure of Somali nation's revival for you. I don't share that.

And with this voluntary confession of yours, I rest my case. You are now eligible for my sincere prayers in Allaah ka caafiyo shiddada ku haysana ee aad la bugto kaa bi'yo!

[Baashi]

What!!!! Huh! Abtigiis no awoowe. You are wrong on that post. To opine Somali conflict requires understanding of all the players of the conflict and what the fight is all about. I let in some light inside the dark corners of the mundul. Understanding does not mean acceptance. Awoowe negative tribalism is a fact of life in that sand dune. To deny that fact on the ground is a tantamount to burying your head in the sand.

 

I didn’t say squat about your genealogy or your motivations. The daemons dancing in your head are playing tricks on you papa. You are not reading the post friend. Looks like you are relying on whatever image you had constructed about my persona. Read the post again and read ur response. There is a disconnection btw the two.

 

Awoowe you might not be the clannish type. You might be sincere in your wish of Somalia free of negative tribalism and foreign interference but sxb Somalia of today and Somalis who populate it are far from that characterization. My post was not about you. It was about that reality. You haven’t refuted the reality I was describing there.

 

In this forum you have many different opinions about what Somali conflict is all about. Some think it is about Islamists as a group against non-Islamists. Others believe it is about Ethiopia against Somalia. There are school of thought that says it is about Somalis themselves vying for power and resources and faction of that wrestling match have sought reinforcement from unlikely foe and former rival (here is where naiveté got lost in the intricacies of practical politicking of dog eat dog world). I happen to subscribe to the latter. From what I’m reading on the forum you seem to subscribe to the second school. We differ. Big deal. There it is -- raw meat for you in the latter school. Go get it papa and easy with ad hominem nonsense.