They are back [Ethios]

[N.O.R.F]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

Norf,

 

A discussion cannot really continue if you keep on rewriting history and attempt to present your own perceptions as fact. The situation today is not that much different than the one two years ago.

 

The opposition are being stubborn and refuse to negotiate. The government is using foreign troops. The Ethiopian monster lurks in the shadows. We all watched this film before, saaxib. Only this time, you seem to have changed your mind about the lead actor!

 

The problem with you, and many that share your new view, is that you want to be right both times. Sorry mate, it can't be done. It is either you were right the first time or you are right now (and regret your previous stance).

 

Politically, I don't hold much hope for Sh. Sharif. I believe him to be the worst ever choice for Somalia and would actually pay money to see Abdullahi Yusuf back. It's a case of trust, you see. I knew the former president has an evil streak and did not mind that because it was out in the open. What you see is what you get, so to speak. This president though, is extremely naive and has been proving this naivety on countless occasions in the past three years.

 

You support him because you think he's a good man (and he may well be that), but you have no concrete proof for this perception you have of him. Well, nothing other than his quiet and reasonable demeanour. Most sensible people would judge a man on his actions though! The actions of this Sheikh have been extremely disappointing thus far and he is yet to do ANYTHING that force one to rethink or extend him the benefit of the doubt.

 

 

I have no love for Al Shabab either. In fact, I have no love for any Islamic movements. I had years of getting excited about them and believing them to be the salvation for the Islamic world only to get slapped back in the face and discover that they are yet another group that only think about itself and is happy to play with the faith in any way that will lead them to power.

 

However, this is an argument of positions and support. This is one where you (and others) try to badmouth Al Shabab for their actions today when you were supporting them for exactly the same actions yesterday. In fact, and if we look closer at the positions you have, Sheikh Sharif (and you) are not much different than Al Shabab!

 

May Allah never put you or Xiin in charge of any Somalis (I say it with the utmost respect, for your sakes and ours)!

 

 

LG,

Though I would love to pull your hair and twist your nose, I know I can't. Your position has always been consistent. You just love Sh. Hotel.

 

Ps

I cannot apologise. The Ugandans killed Somalis. Sh. Hotel is the president of Somalia. Therefore, he shares the guilt.

 

If they had any other president, I would be supporting the TFG. But I never bet on a losing horse, and this horse is useless.

Nice footwork saxib. You very conveniently side stepped the FACT that it was the TFG who refused to travel to Khartoum and subsequently went into a speil about things being no different between the ACTIONS (keyword) of the former and new presidents. In addition and just like our resident lightweights you refuse to acknowledge that there is a clear difference and tangeable difference between the Ethiopian occupaying forces who were out to kill Somalis to those who are there to protect the government (AMISOM) and it's key installations. You have for the length of this discussion maintained this simplistic stance knowing full well that there is a very clear difference between the ACTIONS of yesterday's and today's TFG as well as the Ethiopian troops (and their intentions) and AMISOM (and their intentions).

 

You have to-date failed to come up with an argument on how the actions of AS and co are the same today as they were yesterday considering that the Ethiopians are no longer thus making any such justification null and void (I would very interested to here your take on that). You have failed to explain how you feel AMISOM is the same as the Ethiopian forces who forceably entered the country with the aim of killing Muslims whilst AMISOM's mandate is very clear (unless you somehow believe AMISOM's clear UN mandate is the same as the Ethiopian's internal one - FACTS adeer FACTS).

 

To the lighweights, stay in your other threads posting one liners.

[Member-sol-]

Ilaahi abuuraba kuwii diiday,amarkiisa

Ambiyaalihii iyo kuwii,awlaxa u qaaday

Asxaabtii dariiqada kuwii,awlaxa u qaaday

 

Ikhyaarkooda nimankii kufriga,ugu abraaraayey

Aan lagu igraahine kalgacal,ugu abraarayey

Kuwii ubad nasaaraad noqdee,Amison aanaystay

 

Nimankii amxaara u kacee,adarinuu guurey

Oo Malas aabe u yehee,u arrin qaadaayo

Oo xabashi eegi u noqdee,u ololaynaayey

 

Amison nimankii wadee,nagu aseebaayey

Afirikada geskeed nimankii kufriga,uraya noo keenay

Ee iidaale na dhigay,aydii luuq

 

Nimankii ikhwaankii jaree,aabiga u laayey

Ragga ehelukhayrkaa warmaha,kala ajoon waayey

Oo xumaan daraaddiis girliga,ugu afuufaayey

 

Idilkoodba nimankii dagaal,iigu imanaayey

Nimankaan inkaaree madfaca,ololi ii haystey

Ee ubax caddaydii *****ga,oofta kaga joojay

 

Nimankii iniinaha ka dhigay,xamar wixii joogay

Ee Eerago iyo Batalo,igu uquumeeyey

Ee omoska beerdhiga tukaha,igu unuun goysey

Ashtakooda’aa iyo warqado,ku andacodaaba

Mar haddaan shareecadu aqoon, nimanka TFG

Ashahaadadoodiyo ma rabo,ina wallayntooda

 

Mar haddaan wadaad aayad diin, ila ekeynaynin

Amaan aniga lay oran karayn,tanu ahaan mayso

Allow yaa af lama daaliyee, iga asluubeysta

 

source: smirror comments section

[xiinfaniin]

^^Imimating the Master is all that is left of what once was an overconfident group. Alas if they could only be as able as the Master was

[wacdaraha_aduunka]

This is the situation in which TFG is in except the fuusto is in Villa Somalia

 

[Geel_jire]

In addition and just like our resident lightweights you refuse to acknowledge that

there is a clear difference and tangeable difference between the Ethiopian occupaying forces who were out to kill Somalis to those who are there to protect the government (AMISOM) and it's key installations.

Norf sxb, what on earth has reduced you to this level ?

 

 

Are you seriously arguing that because AMISOM hasn’t killed quite as many innocent civilians as the Ethiopians that they are not as bad?

 

In your opinion what would it take? Would you like to wait for them to achieve parity in death tolls before you take off your rose tinged glasses?

 

 

There were 30,000 Ethiopian troops vs 3000 AMISOM ; an order of magnitude difference.

 

Is the difference in death toll directly attributable to Ethiopians vs AMISOM troops an order of magnitude different? I doubt it.

 

And exactly how did you determine their intentions? I’m curious

 

 

And your arguments are exactly word-for-word the same arguments that the TFG apologists and the ethio lackeys were using to justify the massacre of the people.

 

How does it feel to be on the other side of this argument ?

[Daandurreey]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

^^ ANY, saaxib, ANY. What exactly has he done? Choose a Prime Minster that hardly speaks? Come up with the occasional faux pas?

shariif is a failure. sad people are defending this man because he serves their clan or personal ego interests.

 

yeey didn't succeed because of this same story.

 

insurgency attacks --> foriegn troops defend --> civilians die --> opposition complains --> media talks --> everyone gives up on the goverment.

 

hehe hehe. Karma is a biatch maahinoo. dowladiidkii hore oo dhan sheeko la mid ah maheesatoo. hadii dowlad dhisid laga wada sheqeen lahaay, waxaan oo dhan waa laga weenaan lahaa.

 

somalia is a tool for NGO's, clan interest and personal egos.

 

wax kaleeto meesha ma yaalo.

[Daandurreey]

d/p

[Daandurreey]

Originally posted by Daandurreey:

Originally posted by Geel_jire:

Norf sxb, what on earth has reduced you to this level ?

Are you seriously arguing that because AMISOM hasn’t killed quite as many innocent civilians as the Ethiopians that they are not as bad?

caqli ma jiro hee. norf maahinoo.

 

on the other thread paragon is arguing with people over the death being 10 instead of 12. inaa lilaah. Amisomites maskax maleh. we are arguing shariif didn't kill 12 but the exact number he killed is 10 instead.

 

Amisomites are a bunch of braindeads.

[BiLaaL]

Kashafa, this post seems to have moved on from our initial exchange. In any case, I thought I’d respond to some of your earlier points.

 

Originally posted by Kashafa:

[q]Brotherman akhi, those of us who took a principled stand against Yey, must take that exact same stand against Sharif. Otherwise, you are declaring your stand yesterday to be

one of convenience

.[/q]

My principled stance against the TFG of old was not one of convenience. My concern remains for the innocent civilians caught in the middle, regardless of who is in charge. I never take a stance in support of individuals or groups. My stances have always pertained to what is good for Somalia and its people - not whom i'd like to be in charge.

 

For example, you'll be surprised to learn that I support most of what Aweys and his allies demand from the TFG. Specifically, I support their call for all foreign forces to leave our country. You might also be surprised to learn that I largely blame Sheikh Sharif for the breakdown in the talks. His almost unholy intransigence of insisting on AMISOM's continued presence led to this upheaval.

 

Sheikh Sharif had a golden opportunity to wrestle momentum away from the opposition and bring back the Somali ideals and noble-mindedness of our leaders of old - making the Somali people arbiters of their own affairs. That opportunity arrived when the 'Uluma Council called for the withdrawal of AMISOM in return for its full support of the government. Not only that but they, along with the Somali public were ready and willing to defend the government.

 

Had Sheikh Sharif siezed that opportunity and ordered AMISOM out of the country, the situation would have been very different. With AMISOM gone, Aweys would have had no choice but to honour his oft-repeated phrase of 'leaving the Somalis to talk amongst themselves'.

 

Al-Shabab would have most likely continued their struggle but it would have done so without much of its Somali fighters. The mood of a public tired of war, coupled with an inspired leader willing to end all foreign influence in our country would have swerved many of the Somali members of Al-Shabab away from their current struggle. As a result, Al-Shabab would have been left to rely on its foreign contingent alone and would not have posed much of a challenge.

 

I'm not speculating. The scenario I speak of was a real possibility had Sheikh Sharif acted in the manner described. Sheikh Sharif's insistence on AMISOM's continued presence brought all that to a halt and gave the opposition room to maneuver. Rather than respond positively to the demands of the opposition and avert disaster, he responded in the true fashion of a subservient puppet. It was as if asking AMISOM to leave would lead to the ceasing of the support the TFG receives from abroad.

 

Having said that, the opposition (excluding Al-Shabab - i don't know what to make of this group) ought to have known better than subjecting more suffering upon on an already traumatized public. Their arguments do not stand up to scrutiny Islamically or politically. Scholars more senior and learned than Aweys and Turki have dismissed the religious arguments outright. Their political arguments are just as futile.

 

Dismissing every new entity as foreign controlled and vowing to fight it will only prolong the suffering of our people. This is where my real contention lies. How much more suffering and mayhem can our people take? Aweys' recent appeal for the people to have 'patience' and 'endure' the turmoil he has instigated is morally reprehensible.

 

This is where our views diverge. Neither AMISOM's continued presence nor the support the TFG receives from abroad excuse the actions of the opposition. Dismantling a government willing to institute Shariah and move positively in other avenues, simply because of a small force whose area of influence does not even extend more than a few blocks in Mogadishu is not persuasive enough for me.

 

Yes, it is honorable to call for a Somalia free of all foreign interference. It is honorable to demand full sovereignty. But one must not demolish the only entity capable of ensuring full sovereignty without giving it a chance. Rather, the opposition should use its influence to demand that the TFG mould itself into a more independent, acceptable government which properly defends the interests of our country.

 

Instead of thinking strategically and placing the needs of the people and indeed of our country first, the opposition chose to cling on to flimsy and half-baked principles.

 

Instead of defending the country against undue external influences, they risk endangering the very existence of our country and bringing about more untold suffering for our people.

 

It is ironic that they speak of defending the honor and sovereignty of the Somali people while at the same time leading it to the abyss. The potential consequences of their actions far outweigh the ills they claim to be fighting.

[Che -Guevara]

NGONGE;546154 wrote:

Kashafa is talking sense. He has not changed his stance and is sticking to his principles (rightly or wrongly). Of course, though I believe the group he supports will eventually implode, I cannot see what the difference in positions is today. Sh. Hotel is doing exactly what AY was doing and, therefore, logic dictates that those who opposed AY will readily oppose Sh. Sharif! Mese sheekadiino waa qabiil?

LooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooL

[Carafaat]

Ngonge and many others were wrong in their analysis of Shariif 2,5 years ago. Shariif showed another leadership style of the more consultitive and broad support based kind, then the dictatorial they were used to and Somali's are fed up with Al Shaytaan.

[NGONGE]

Carafaat;769561 wrote:

Ngonge and many others were wrong in their analysis of Shariif 2,5 years ago. Shariif showed another leadership style of the more consultitive and broad support based kind, then the dictatorial they were used to and Somali's are fed up with Al Shaytaan.

I beg to differ. I was and still am CORRECT, saaxib. Time and experience has kept on proving that but do I get my due respect? Does anyone out there start the whisper "NGONGE knows what he's talking about", "NGONGE for president"?

 

p.s.

Which side is Xiin on today?

[Maaddeey]

Dadkii Xabashida ka qaylin jiray ee af labadii yeeri jiray aaway hadda?, xamaasaddii miyaa dhamaatay mise waddaniyaddii?!.

[N.O.R.F]

Maxaa dhacay?

[NGONGE]

Maaddeey;769893 wrote:

Dadkii Xabashida ka qaylin jiray ee af labadii yeeri jiray aaway hadda?, xamaasaddii miyaa dhamaatay mise waddaniyaddii?!.

I am sad to report that some of the people you're asking about met their maker as a result of successful Al Shabab missions/suicide bombings. Those that survived (even in far away London) love nothing more than to see Al Shabab destroyed and humbled.