Keepers of the Faith

[NGONGE]

I notice that my last topic has been deleted! For what reason I wonder!

 

For those unaware of the topic I’m speaking of, it was the one about the desecrating of the Koran and the resulting riots in Pakistan and other parts of the Muslim world.

 

The article that was deleted was by one Irshad Manji (the author of the book titled The Trouble With Islam). This lady claims to be a Muslim (I’m not sure if any of you agree with that claim). Anyway, on the basis of such a claim, she saw fit to write an article in a national British newspaper about the recent riots and demonstrations! Not wanting to disappoint her many detractors, she unnecessarily (in my opinion) added a bit of a commentary about the Koran and pointed out some ‘imperfections’! I believe this last part is what led the moderators to delete this topic.

 

Those that read the article were probably shocked, disgusted and puzzled as to the reasons that led me to post such an amazing piece of trash on this site! From the few replies that I read, I was astonished to find most people dismissing the author and her sexual orientation instead of tackling the good (yes good) points she raised in that article!

 

Nowadays, there are many keepers of our faith. The Salafis are doing a sterling job; the Tableegh boys can’t be faulted for effort; Ahlu-Ul-Sunna chip in with their valuable contributions; the Egyptian Brotherhood (and all their splinter movements) deserve to be commended for much of the work they do. One can go on and praise every single group out there; alas the aim here is not to bore you with lists.

 

The real aim was to show that there are countless groups that speak, rightly or wrongly, in the name of Islam! Irshad Manji, Ayaan Hirsi, Ibn Waraq, Yasmin Ali-Bahi-Brown and a dozen other nonentities all claim to be the keepers of our faith too! The recent British general elections even had George Galloway speaking on our behalf! Then there was the IMPAC campaign to encourage Muslims to vote and the Hezb-Ut-Tahrir campaign to discourage Muslims from voting!

 

The first list (the one with the Salafis et al) is not, for now, a serious problem. Thankfully, all these groups seem to be in agreement on most of the major Islamic issues (how short are your trousers or long is your beard are, despite all their protestations, not major issues).

 

The second list (Irshad Manji and her ilk) is the problematic one. Allow me to digress for a minute and exclude Hezb-Ut-Tahrir and IMPAC from that list, I only included them in this group because they all share the distinguishing quality of being Western! Irshad Manji, in her recent article to the Times newspaper, criticised the use of violence in Islamic protests! Her article was distasteful, offensive and blasphemous! She displayed her remarkable ignorance of the religion she claims to belong to! She questioned the Koran, questioned the Prophet and questioned the companions! However, as is the case with most of these ‘western’ keepers of our faith, she also highlighted a genuine and current failing in Muslim society. She asked a valid question about the justification of violence when protesting!

 

I have not read her book but judging by some of the articles and TV interviews I saw, I’m almost certain that I would not enjoy reading it or find myself agreeing with most of it. However, I do agree with the title of the book, The Trouble With Islam! There is a problem with Islam, a huge and very complicated problem too.

 

First of all, we have the problem of the Muslims in Muslim lands. These people demonstrate, riot and violently protest at the mere hint of an assault on Islam! As was evident in Afghanistan and Pakistan, the riots caused a lot of damage to life and property. No American soldiers, officials or citizens were hurt (not that this would change anything). Was there a point to such protest? Would it have made a difference to the issues at hand? Or were we punishing ourselves for our incompetence and inability to protect our faith?

In spite of the anger the news of the defilement of our holy book produced in all our hearts, such rioting was idiotic, pointless and counterproductive. Such mindless action is what gives ‘experts’ such as Ms Manji the opportunity to speak on all our behalf’s! One wonders what are the scholars; intellectuals and sane people of the Muslim lands are busy with! Do they agree with such senseless madness? Is this the kind of Islam they preach?

 

Secondly, we have the Muslims of the West. These ones disagree with and abhor people like Ms Manji! But, how many of them attempt to confront her and refute all her nonsense?

How many are happy to brush her drivel aside and carry on with their normal lives?

Here, sadly, the attitude is to ignore such people and hope they’ll go away. Meanwhile, such people become the spokespersons of the Muslim community in the West! This is not about who gets to speak to Westerners, this is about who gets coverage, airtime and publicity. It’s about whose message gets to the widest possible audience. Unfortunately, in the West at least, Ms Manji’s message is getting further than all of ours combined! Where her book is available in libraries and is being discussed on many websites (not many Islamic ones surprisingly enough), we suppress any questions, delete any articles and ignore all confusing messages! If someone asks the same questions that Ms Manji poses in her book (or article), they’re silenced, accused of blasphemy or insulted! The assumptions are that all Muslims already know the answers to most of these things and that those that don’t, only have themselves to blame (or at least that’s the impression given)! Even those that condescend to address such questions would usually deal out the same old replies that were not convincing enough first time round (when one was a kid) never mind now (when one is an adult)!

 

There are many young and confused Muslims here in the Western world. Most of them are faced (daily) with new challenges, perplexing questions and a plethora of Muslim movements all vying for their attention! In addition, they’re confronted by the atheist and secular Western brigades! They’re bombarded with countless questions regarding the nature of god, the authenticity of the Koran, the meaning of faith, etc! Those fortunate enough to have knowledgeable family, friends or local Muslims around can, at least, easily (in comparison) wade through such an amazing sea of confusion. But, what about those that try to learn but never know what choice to make? What about the ones that ask questions but are turned down with all those holier-than-thou replies? Could such people be blamed for following the Irshad Manji version of Islam (she does claim to be a Muslim)?

 

Now, if I happen to post another article by Ms Manji, will the moderators delete it again? Or will they (along with any other Nomads) try to contest all her arguments?

 

Your reactions are what will show us if there is indeed a trouble with Islam.

[Final_Say]

salamz sis!!

 

sorry alittle wake up call for you, everyone knows there are problems with the MUSLIMS, it was known before the prophet (PBUH) died. there are many confused and lost people in the world, and many so called muslims who follow their desires and their hawa.

 

wat i don't get is wat are u achiving by posting this articles,.... it is not educational in terms of islam, for a person with a lack of knoledeg in islam it may not only confuse them, but if they adopt and implement things frm the article u posted, its a mischif that u have spreaded and u will be questioned for it on the day of judgement.

 

so use ur time wisely, post something that will benefit people in terms of their deen, not adding to their long list of already confusing articles and proggrammes they already see.

 

for any basic muslim, its not the existent of allah or whether the Quran is from allah is not wat they disbute about, but matters that are not clear in the quran and the sunnah.

 

my advise to anyone is, if you want to known aything about islam then refer to the Quran and the Sunnah, if you can't find it in their then follow those that are in the guidence of the quran and the sunnah, and remember if u truely want to be guided allah will guide u if he wishs.

 

don't stree your self about the situation of the immuah, as the prophet already said my uummah will break into 73different sects, all of the in hell except one.

 

inshallah may allah guide us to the save sect.

 

 

salamz

 

P.S. instead of reading her book and watching her proggram, educate ur self, start with the quran and the book ahaidth books e.g saxixual bukhari

[Jurnee]

asalamu alaikum,

 

just my two cents

 

There is a problem with Islam, a huge and very complicated problem too.-Ngonge

 

There are problems with muslims, however, Islam is perfect.

 

With the whole protesting issue, i actually wish i had half the guts those ppl do when protesting in the cause of our religion. I dont believe it should be aggressive or violent, however showing that you actually have a voice and are willing to stand up for what you believe in is an admirable quality.

[NGONGE]

wat i don't get is wat are u achiving by posting this articles,.... it is not educational in terms of islam, for a person with a lack of knoledeg in islam it may not only confuse them, but if they adopt and implement things frm the article u posted, its a mischif that u have spreaded and u will be questioned for it on the day of judgement.

I aim to cause mischief, my dear. This is why I’m posting this on the general section and not the Islam section. Now loosen your hijab a little and give me a reply other than the usual stuff.

[Final_Say]

salamz

 

hey i'm never gonna read a thread created by u again (i read three or two of ur threads today! dey were both useless, no sense of direction and a complete and utter waste of time

 

don't you have a job or husband or something to do. if not,den go and learn to cook or something

 

naaga waalan stop wasting time

 

as for loosing my hijab, maybe u should get one so u can have something to busy ur self wid, instead of wasting ppl time.

 

naaya don't cry i'm just kiddin (u did waste my time, while i wrote dis)

salamz

[nuune]

^^^ Duq Ngonge is a man and not a lady as u assumed.

 

 

back to the topic, I haven't seen that article by that lady who claimed to be a muslim, I think I will have to c and read what that article says before I make any jump-ins :eek:

[Paragon]

NGONGE if you honestly want the 'valid' questions (or points) she raises to be discussed, then why don't you do us the service of disecting such non-blasphemous questions and post them, in debatable form? But if you post blasphemous articles, without atleast editing them, no matter who the author is, they are likely to be deleted, as this goes contrary to the rules of the site. Blasphemy is not freedom of expression, and Irshad Manji is wellknown to use blasphemy to gain attention to her writings. It is necessary to have that in mind.

 

PS: I am sure that if your interests are pragmatic discusions, they would be dealt with satisfactorilly.

[Viking]

NGONGE,

 

 

For those unaware of the topic I’m speaking of, it was the one about the desecrating of the Koran and the resulting riots in Pakistan and other parts of the Muslim world.

Yes, anyone who follows current events knows that there have been demonstrations and riots especially in Afghanistan that have led to some deaths. You posted an article that was blaming Muslims for the deaths whereas the truth is that they died as a result of clashes between the authorities and the people demosntrating. This happens in many parts of the world and the most notorious demonstrations/riots were the one held in Tianaman Square in 1989 where the Chinese authorities killed the demontsrating students (it got a lot of attention because the west's view of the communist China).

 

All over the world, sometimes deaths occur during demonstrations and especially when they clash with the authorities who often use more force than necessary. Irshad Manji was blaming the Muslims as usual for the deaths (she might somehow be justified because the intalled govt in Afghanistan is led by Muslim marionettes; so her comments would be welcome if she was critisizing them and not Muslims in general).

 

 

I have not read her book but judging by some of the articles and TV interviews I saw, I’m almost certain that I would not enjoy reading it or find myself agreeing with most of it. However, I do agree with the title of the book, The Trouble With Islam! There is a problem with Islam, a huge and very complicated problem too.

Do you need a secular homosexual who denies the authenticity of the Qur'an and questions the morality of our Noble prophet SAWS to tell you something about Islam? Maybe you feel the need of people like her to be heard (even on forum for Muslims like SOL) but most Muslims see the hypocrisy she shows everytime she opens her mouth and don't give her more publicity that she gets from her occidental mentors.

 

 

But, how many of them attempt to confront her and refute all her nonsense?...Meanwhile, such people become the spokespersons of the Muslim community in the West! This is not about who gets to speak to Westerners, this is about who gets coverage, airtime and publicity. It’s about whose message gets to the widest possible audience. Unfortunately, in the West at least, Ms Manji’s message is getting further than all of ours combined! Where her book is available in libraries and is being discussed on many websites (not many Islamic ones surprisingly enough), we suppress any questions, delete any articles and ignore all confusing messages!

Why is it you think the likes of Irshad Manji, Ayan Hirsi et al. get most publicity? Those who control the media are keen to defame Islam at any given opportunity. Anything that rebuts their nonsense or even attempts to set records straight is not given an opportunity to do so. As Allah SWT says in the Qur'an, the non-believers will not be content until you abandon your faith.

 

Where are all the "Al-Qaeda sleeper-cells" the Bush administration was talking about a couple of years ago? Where are the 200 or so militants who are "ready to strike anytime in the UK" according to the police commisioner? These ludicrous remarks that defame Islam make prime-time news but the fact that none of the above was true was never told to the public. The damage is done and anyone who tries to rebuke lies by govts and Islamophobes would never be given the opportunity or coverage.

 

 

Now, if I happen to post another article by Ms Manji, will the moderators delete it again? Or will they (along with any other Nomads) try to contest all her arguments?

Why do you have the need to discuss the problems faced by Muslims from the point of view of someone who can hardly be referred to as Muslim? Do you want to stir an angry reaction or to initiate proper discussions where ideas/views are exchanged? If it's the latter, then there are better ways to approach this than give a blasphemous gay activist more attention.

[NGONGE]

Originally posted by Jmaal11:

NGONGE if you honestly want the 'valid' questions (or points) she raises to be discussed, then why don't you do us the service of disecting such non-blasphemous questions and post them, in debatable form? But if you post blasphemous articles, without atleast editing them, no matter who the author is, they are likely to be deleted, as this goes contrary to the rules of the site. Blasphemy is not freedom of expression, and Irshad Manji is wellknown to use blasphemy to gain attention to her writings. It is necessary to have that in mind.

 

PS: I am sure that if your interests are pragmatic discusions, they would be dealt with satisfactorilly.

With all due respect saaxib, why do we act as if we’re all tucked away safely back home in Somalia or in a predominantly Muslim country, where we’re shielded and protected from hearing any such blasphemous opinions?

 

This article was printed in a national British newspaper! A newspaper that can be accessed online (for those that are not in the UK)! Do we not read newspapers? Do we not watch TV? Do we not work, live amongst and interact with non-Muslims? How many people on this site watched or read reviews about the movie ‘The Passion of Christ’? How about ‘Bruce Almighty’ (for the frivolous amongst us)?

 

I understood the rules of the site to relate to someone deciding to have a random rant and insulting Islam for the sake of doing so! Now, though we all suspect this lady to be engaged in such an activity, she by virtue of writing this article in a ‘serious’ newspaper, is attempting to pass it off as a genuine piece of journalism! Does it come as a great shock to you then when I post her article here for discussion (editing it would be pointless, saaxib)? Like I said, this article is available online and was printed on Friday’s edition of The Times Newspaper!

 

My original point still stands, Jamal! If we keep deleting such articles and refuse to discuss them because they go against the ‘rules’ of the site; if other Muslim sites refuse to acknowledge the existence of such hogwash because it contains sacrilege and blasphemy, who exactly is going to reply to such people? The Imam on the Jumca prayers is probably too busy telling us about Seerat Ibn Hisham to worry himself with such people as Ms Manji! You see, I believe rules are put there for a reason. I agree with such rules. However, sometimes, I believe the rules are enforced prematurely. If the inclusion of blasphemy in an article is used for the simple purpose of shock and provocation then fine, it should be deleted. If the deletion of such profanity would not influence the message of the piece then ok, it also should be deleted! However, when such nonsense is the building block of the article, when its inclusion gives a feel of the author’s thinking and message, deleting will only serve to stifle the intended discussion.

 

We don’t reside in Mecca or Medina (or even Xamar), well most of us don’t anyway. We’re not fortunate enough to have an official governmental censorship that protects our sensibilities from people like Ms Manji, Salman Rushdie or Ayaan Hirsi! We can pretend to replicate such censorship on this site, but frankly, that would defeat the whole purpose. I know and you know that this lady is an ignorant publicity seeker. We can easily see that in her writing. However, why do we assume that everyone else knows that? Why do we assume that when people read her questioning of our holy book they would not start to wonder about the correctness of her logic?

 

 

Viking, your argument in regards to the demonstration leaves a lot to be desired, saaxib. The point she’s making was that Muslims KILLED Muslims! We can argue about semantics, background, reasons or even excuse it by comparing it to China and other countries all day, saaxib. The fact still remains that in this case, Muslims did kill Muslims. They attacked and destroyed Muslim property (not to mention Aid agencies). Are you trying to justify such acts?

Though I disagreed with everything that woman wrote in her article, this was one point I could not bring myself to disagree with. She told a truth.

 

Earlier you said that “most Muslims see the hypocrisy she shows everytime she opens her mouth and don't give her more publicity that she gets from her occidental mentors.†How do you know that most Muslims do saaxib? How do you guarantee that many Muslims will not fall for her “logic� After all, you have not even bothered to tackle her!

 

 

Why do you have the need to discuss the problems faced by Muslims from the point of view of someone who can hardly be referred to as Muslim? Do you want to stir an angry reaction or to initiate proper discussions where ideas/views are exchanged? If it's the latter, then there are better ways to approach this than give a blasphemous gay activist more attention.

I have no need to discuss anything from her point of view, saaxib. Had I seen anyone addressing these issues I would have used their articles instead, alas Ms Manji was all that I could find. Again, she claims to be a Muslim and she’s talking on your and my behalf. You strike me as someone that rejects her ideas yet never sees the need to contest them! What gives, saaxib?

[Haddad]

Originally posted by shankaroon:

There are problems with muslims, however, Islam is perfect.

Indeed. Some people have trouble choosing the proper terminology.

[Viking]

NGONGE,

 

Originally posted by NGONGE:

Viking

, your argument in regards to the demonstration leaves a lot to be desired, saaxib. The point she’s making was that Muslims KILLED Muslims! We can argue about semantics, background, reasons or even excuse it by comparing it to China and other countries all day, saaxib. The fact still remains that in this case, Muslims did kill Muslims. They attacked and destroyed Muslim property (not to mention Aid agencies). Are you trying to justify such acts?

No one denied that Muslims kill each other...Is it the first time that this has hapenned? Mu'awiyah took to battle against fellow Muslims and blood was shed not long after the death of the Propeht SAWS. There is nothing new here.

 

Who are the authorities that clashed with those demontsrating? Aren't they the led by the puppet regime that was installed by Bush? Isn't Karzai the dude who worked for UNOCAL and tried to get a pipeline deal with the Taliban? These people ruling Afghanistan today killed and betrayed fellow Muslims to get in that position. Does it come as a suprise to you that they killed a few people demosntrating?

 

What did Irshad Manji say that was so fascinating sxb that you had to post her blasphemous posts on an a wesbite for Muslims?

 

 

 

Originally posted by NGONGE:

Though I disagreed with everything that woman wrote in her article, this was one point I could not bring myself to disagree with. She told a truth.

And what was the truth? That Muslims killed each other? Sxb, a ten year old kid could tell you that! If you agreed with most of the contents in that post then I'd understand your reason for posting it, but why bother if you disagree with over 90% of what she says? Allah SWT says that before we do something, we should put it on 'scale' to see whether the good aspects outweigh the bad aspects, if it does then we go ahead and do it. If not, we abstain from it for the consequences make the action not worth doing (becomes sinful) because it causes more harm than good. Obviously as you stated above, you "disagreed with everything that woman wrote in her article" yet you still saw a benefit in posting it. That is what people have a difficulty understanding.

 

 

Originally posted by NGONGE:

Earlier you said that

“most Muslims see the hypocrisy she shows everytime she opens her mouth and don't give her more publicity that she gets from her occidental mentors.â€

How do you know that most Muslims do saaxib? How do you guarantee that many Muslims will not fall for her “logic� After all, you have not even bothered to tackle her!

It's not the first time I've heard of this woman. The first time was a few years ago and I was disgusted with what I read. Basically everyone in this forum reacted negatively to the article you posted, not because they refuse to scrutinise the actions of Muslims but because the person speaking is herself a deviant who rejects the Qur'an and still has the audacity to call herself a Muslim.

 

 

Originally posted by NGONGE:

I have no need to discuss anything from her point of view, saaxib. Had I seen anyone addressing these issues I would have used their articles instead, alas Ms Manji was all that I could find. Again, she claims to be a Muslim and she’s talking on your and my behalf. You strike me as someone that rejects her ideas yet never sees the need to contest them! What gives, saaxib?

These issues are adressed everyday even by our own scholars. Irshad manji hasn't said anything new and exciting. There are plenty of scholars who accomodate the notion of using suicide bombers as a means to bring about freedom and tehre are those who oppose it. You don't need a 'secular gay-activist' to tell you that we need to "check ourselves" and correct our behaviour, Imams do this everytime they hold a khutba!

[Salma]

I read her wicked work last year, but how about adding "Tasleema Nasrin" (Bengali) and Salman Rushdi (Turkish) to your list, and still there are many of them who are hidden and wearing dirty masks and working very hard to destroy the Muslims and the Islamic States while considering themselves "Muslims". All these ppl have problems with the Islamic Creed. (Al Aqeeda)

 

As Miz Slander said : The Prophet (SACW) already said my uummah will break into 73 different sects.

 

73 sects all calling themselves the right & pure Muslims on earth, all think they deserve the Jannah.

 

La xawla wala qowata ella bellah. May Allah keep us safe and away from these lost sects and guide us to his right path (The Prophet PBUH path) inshallah.

[-Serenity-]

I don’t see why you’re all so keen to personally attack NGONGE. The article, which looking back was blasphemous, was deleted. He had a point posting it. Now he rewrote this topic to extract that main point. So why cant we discuss it? Just because the main argument was brought to our attention by the likes of Manji?

 

Reminder:

 

Issue: Quran desecrated in Guantanamo Bay..

 

Result: Protests were held in MUSLIM countries leading to MUSLIM casualties. Isnt the absurdity of such a situation obvious? If we have regimes and govt in place, unwilling to stand up for our believes, we more than deserve to be humiliated and ridiculed. Our attention and protest/demonstrations is definitely geared the wrong way.

 

I actually find arguments such as the muslims being distributed into 73 sects and so on n so forth quite misused. Is this an excuse to be passive? To let every1 claims to be muslim and carry on as they please? Differences of opinion and interpretation can occur, but if one believes in the oneness of Allah, the veracity of the Quran, the institution of Prophethood, the certainty of the day of judgement, the angels, the jinns, and the Shaytaan, then we can all learn to respect each other and peacefully co-exist. And this is an aim that shouldn’t be deterred with such statements.

 

Quite thought provoking piece NGONGE. A reality check indeed. We Muslims tend to either get too overly violent and aggressive or just sit and be passive about issues concerning us and the west. The ummah as I see today, is in dire need of direction – a common one. A true Islamic representation within our own borders. Islam for most part, was not spread through the sword but the message.

 

Regarding the book, this is what a Christian woman who has read it makes of it in her blog

 

“She offers a practical vision of how Islam can undergo a reformation that empowers women, promotes respect for religious minorities, and fosters a competition of ideas. Her vision revives "ijtihad," Islam's lost tradition of independent thinking. In that spirit, Irshad has a refreshing challenge for both Muslims and non-Muslims: Don't silence yourselves. Ask questions - out loud.â€

 

And going by nothing but that abstract, who disagrees?

[NGONGE]

Viking, you seem to be arguing from the point that this article was written by a feminist, lesbian and ’reformed’ Muslim. Therefore, you’re unwilling to read or agree with such a person! At the risk of sounding like a broken record, let me repeat myself and remind you that this lady claims to speak for you and me. She’s spreading her own version of Islam, one that you find blasphemous and disgusting but rather ignore than tackle! This is very unlike you, saaxib! I’m getting the impression that you’re equating the posting of her article on this site or even the initiation of a discussion on such an article as a straightforward endorsement of such nonsense!

 

The blasphemy point seems to trouble you too! Again, are you not residing in the West? Do you not encounter such blasphemous utterances everywhere you go? One would have thought you would be resistant to such claptrap by now, saaxib (note, I say resistant and not tolerant).

 

I will get back to the argument about the demonstrations in a minute, but first I want to carry on stressing how risky it is to look right through people like Ms Manji! You see, this lady (and all those I’ve mentioned above – plus the ones classique added) all usually start off with valid criticism of Islam before they go on to spread their own schemes! In the case of this particular lady, she started off by making the legitimate point about violence in Islamic protest. She may have spoken about the riots in Afghanistan and Pakistan, but are such spontaneous instances worth writing a whole article about? Is the point she’s making one about the desecrating of the Koran and people’s reaction to it, or is she hinting at the wider manifestations of violence in Muslim affairs?

 

You’re obviously safe from her enchanting rhetoric, you already loathe the woman and this loathing is shielding you from her occasional valid queries! But, what about those with less knowledge than you? They see the violence perpetrated in the name of Islam. They see the kidnapping of civilians, the bombing of property and the attacks on everyday people in the name of Islam! They wonder about the sanity, legitimacy and fairness of it all! They then get Ms Manji trying to wheedle her way into the argument by decrying the violent culture of Islam! She rightfully criticises the tendency of Muslims to use violence at the mere hint of an insult!

 

Let us face it, saaxib; we are not dealing with a woman who’s having a tantrum here. We’re dealing with someone who has the ability to mislead and, by our own idleness, is allowed to mislead. You say that the scholars are speaking up and dealing with such violence. You mention their dispute about suicide bombing! But, how do such disputes and disagreements help you and me (never mind someone that lacks basic knowledge and is trying to understand and learn)? When I mentioned all the groups in my first post (Salafi’s, etc) I did not do so to decorate my piece or show that I recognise the names of some Islamic groups. I did so to highlight the confusion and division! An unnecessary division between groups that, more or less, agree on most things! Yet, because of such division, people like Ms Manji are able to stand up and speak for all Muslims. What makes this even more exasperating is that most those in the know only shrug, refer to her sexual orientation and assume that EVERYONE else can also see right through her. On the odd occasion that someone decides to challenge her stance, hardly any elucidation is employed. Rather, they invite one to refer to the Koran and Sunna! Even then, such a good answer is not given its just dues. Instead, they use words and expressions that would confuse the hell out of your average layman. Then we get the infamous hadeeth about the 73 sects! On many occasions, surprisingly enough, that hadeeth is used to excuse the existence of people like Ms Manji!

 

Now, to return to the demonstrations and the benign way you chose to portray them! The violence was the fault of the puppets of America (Muslims are they not?), violence amongst Muslims started with Mucawiyah (what’s that got to do with the price of fish?). You’re trying to make it sound normal, saaxib. Why? Do you agree with it?

 

As for your claim that the Imams speak about these issues all the time, well, I beg to differ. It’s not often that one comes across an Imam that speaks about such things or tackles such people. I suspect that most are adopting your way of looking at things: she’s a secular-gay-activist and one should not waste their breath on reading or responding to any of her drivel.

[QUANTUM LEAP]

An "Operation Ijtihad" supported and sponsored by the West? How many people does she expect to go along with the idea of 'the West' coming into their religious lives and telling them everything they believe in is wrong? A well known lesbian publishing under the umbrella of being associated with Muslims who are totally different character from what she believes in. The only reason for publishing such hateful book is to try and influence the young who may think that Islam doesn’t allow for free thinking. If she didn’t publish under the guise of bashing Islam, then it wouldn’t be controversial, nobody would ever bother to buy her books, she wouldn't get much publicity, fame, money, or excitement! Nobody would care who she is and what she said. She is a born hypocrite and at heart she’s worse than what her tongue reveals against Islam. She speaks without knowledge and only caters for what the west calls free thinking which is an art used by gay feminists in the west. Cry me a river or what. What I can’t seem to comprehend is if she so loathes Islam and its teachings, why doesn't she just find another suitable religion that caters for what she’s trying to find? That is a great 'independent thought.' Why does she stick with this one, in which the very Holy Book itself tells its followers to do things and believe in things that she finds repugnant? Why would she continue to embrace a religion that will never accept her for what she is (being gay and blasphemous.

 

(2:13) When it is said to them: "Believe as the others believe:" They say: "Shall we believe as the fools believe?" Nay, of a surety they are the fools, but they do not know.

(2:14) When they meet those who believe, they say: "We believe;" but when they are alone with their evil ones, they say: "We are really with you: We (were) only jesting."

Subhanallah! How beautiful Quran reveals their hearts.