Why Science Fails To Explain God

[Hassan_B]

Very interesting story, a good read..

 

Why Science Fails to Explain God

"Professing to be wise, they became fools . . .. "

"LET ME EXPLAIN THE problem science has with God."

The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before

his class and then asks

one of his new students to stand.

"You're a Muslim, aren't you, son?"

"Yes, sir."

"So you believe in God?"

"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"

"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

"Yes."

"Are you good or evil?"

"The Koran says I'm not always so good."

The professor grins knowingly. "Ahh! THE KORAN!" He

considers for a

moment.

"Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person

over here and you can

cure him. You can do it. Would you help them?

"Would you try?"

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"

"I wouldn't say that."

"Why not say that? You would help a sick and maimed

person if you

could...

in fact most of us would if we could... but God doesn't.

 

[No answer.]

 

"He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Muslim who

died of cancer even

though he

prayed to God to heal him. How is this God good?

Hmmm?

Can you answer that one?"

 

[No answer]

The elderly man is sympathetic. "No, you can't, can

you?"

He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to

give the student time to

relax. In philosophy, you have to go easy with the

new ones.

"Let's start again, young fella." "Is God good?"

"Er... Yes."

"Is Satan good?"

"No."

"Where does Satan come from?" The student falters.

"From... God..."

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he?" The

elderly man runs his bony

fingers

through his thinning hair and turns to the smirking,

student audience.

"I think we're going to have a lot of fun this

semester, ladies and

gentlemen."

He turns back to the Muslim. "Tell me, son. Is there

evil in this world?"

"Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? Did God make

everything?"

"Yes."

"Who created evil?

 

[No answer]

 

"Is there sickness in this world? Immorality?

Hatred? Ugliness? All the

terrible things - do they exist in this world? "

The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."

"Who created them? "

 

[No answer]

 

The professor suddenly shouts at his student. "WHO

CREATED THEM? TELL ME,

PLEASE!

"The professor closes in for the kill and climbs

into the Muslim's face.

In a still small voice: "God created all evil,

didn't He, son?"

 

[No answer]

 

The student tries to hold the steady, experienced

gaze and fails.

Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace the front

of the classroom like an

aging panther.

The class is mesmerized.

"Tell me," he continues, "How is it that this God is

good if He created all

evil throughout time?"

The professor swishes his arms around to encompass

the wickedness of the

world.

"All the hatred, the brutality, all the pain, all

the torture, all the death

and ugliness and all the suffering created by this

good God is all over the

world, isn't it, young man?"

 

[No answer]

 

"Don't you see it all over the place? Huh?"

Pause.

"Don't you?" The professor leans into the student's

face again and

whispers, "Is God good?"

 

[No answer]

 

"Do you believe in God, son?"

The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes,

professor. I do." The old

man shakes his head sadly. "Science says you have

five senses you use to

identify and observe the world around you. Have

you? "

"Yes, of course sir, I do have five senses".

 

Then, slowly raising his voice, the professor continues:

"Have you ever seen your God?"

"No, sir. I've never seen Him."

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your God?"

"No, sir. I have not."

"Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God or

smelt your God...

in fact, do you have any sensory perception of your God

whatsoever?"

 

[No answer]

 

"Answer me, please."

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

"You're AFRAID... you haven't?"

"No, sir."

"Yet you still believe in him?"

"...yes..."

"That takes FAITH!" The professor smiles sagely at

the underling.

"According to the rules of empirical, testable,

demonstrable protocol,

science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say

to that, son?

Where is your God now?"

 

[The student doesn't answer]

 

"Sit down, please."

The Muslim sits...Defeated.

 

Another Muslim raises his hand. "Professor, may I

address the class?"

The professor turns and smiles. "Ah, another Muslim

in the vanguard!

Come, come, young man. Speak some proper wisdom to

the gathering."

The

Muslim looks around the room. "Some interesting

points you are making, sir.

Now I've got a question for you. Is there such

thing as heat?"

"Yes," the professor replies. "There's

heat."

"Is there such a thing as cold?"

"Yes, son, there's cold too."

"No, sir, there isn't."

The professor's grin freezes. The room

suddenly goes very cold.

The second Muslim continues. "You can have lots of

heat, even more heat,

super-heat, mega-heat, white heat, a little heat or

no heat but we don't

have anything called 'cold'.

 

We can hit 458 degrees below zero, which is no

heat, but we can't go any further after that.

There is no such thing as

cold, otherwise we would be able to go colder than

458 - You see, sir, cold

is only a word we use to describe the absence of

heat. We cannot measure

cold. Heat we can measure in

thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not

the opposite of heat, sir,

just the absence of it."

 

Silence. A pin drops somewhere in the

classroom.

 

"Is there such a thing as darkness, professor?"

"That's a dumb question, son. What is night if

it isn't darkness?

What are you getting at...?"

"So you say there is such a thing as darkness?"

"Yes..."

"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something,

it is the absence of

something. You can have low light, normal light,

bright light, flashing

light but if you have no light constantly you have

nothing and it's called

darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to

define the word. In

reality, Darkness isn't. If it were, you would be

able to make darkness

darker and give me a jar of it. Can you...give me a

jar of darker

darkness, professor?"

 

Despite himself, the professor smiles at the young

effrontery before

him.

This will indeed be a good semester. "Would

you mind telling us what

your point is, young man?"

 

"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical

premise is flawed to

start with and so your conclusion must be in

error...."

The professor goes toxic. "Flawed...? How dare

you...!""

"Sir, may I explain what I mean?" >

 

The class is all ears.

"Explain... oh, explain..." The professor

makes an admirable effort

to regain control. Suddenly he is affability

itself. He waves his

hand to silence the class, for the student to

continue.

"You are working on the premise of duality," the

Muslim explains. "That for

example there is life and then there's death; a good

God and a bad God.

You are viewing the concept of God as something

finite, something we can

measure.

Sir, science cannot even explain a thought. It uses

electricity and

magnetism but has never seen, much less fully

understood them. To view

death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of

the fact that death

cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not

the opposite of life,

merely the absence of it."

 

The young man holds up a newspaper he takes from the

desk of a neighbor who

has been reading it. "Here is one of the most

disgusting tabloids this

country hosts, professor. Is there such a thing as

immorality?"

 

"Of course there is, now look..."

 

"Wrong again, sir. You see, immorality is merely

the absence of

morality.

Is there such thing as injustice? No. Injustice is

the absence of justice.

Is there such a thing as evil?" The Muslim pauses.

"Isn't evil the absence

of good?"

 

The professor's face has turned an alarming color.

He is so angry

he is temporarily speechless.

The Muslim continues. "If there is evil in the

world, professor, and we all

agree there is, then God, if he exists, must be

accomplishing a work

through the agency of evil. What is that work, God

is accomplishing? The

Bible tells us it is to see if each one of us will,

of our own free will,

choose good over evil."

 

The professor bridles. "As a philosophical

scientist, I don't vie this

matter as having anything to do with any choice; as

a realist, I absolutely

do not recognize the concept of God or any other

theological factor as

being part of the world equation because God is not

observable."

 

"I would have thought that the absence of God's

moral code in this world is

probably one of the most observable phenomena

going," the Muslim replies.

"Newspapers make billions of dollars reporting it

every week! Tell me,

professor. Do you teach your students that they

evolved from a monkey?"

 

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary

process, young man,

yes, of course I do."

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes,

sir?"

 

The professor makes a sucking sound with his teeth

and gives his student a

silent, stony stare.

"Professor. Since no-one has ever observed the

process of evolution at work

and cannot even prove that this process is an

on-going endeavor, are you

not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a

scientist, but a

priest?"

"I'll overlook your impudence in the light of our

philosophical discussion.

Now, have you quite finished?" the professor hisses.

"So you don't accept

God's moral code to do what is righteous?"

"I believe in what is - that's science!"

"Ahh! SCIENCE!" the student's face splits into a

grin.

"Sir, you rightly state that science is the study of

observed phenomena.

Science too is a premise which is flawed..."

"SCIENCE IS FLAWED..?" the

professor splutters.

The class is in uproar.

 

The Muslim remains standing until the commotion has

subsided.

"To continue the point you were making earlier to

the other student, may I

give you an example of what I mean?"

 

The professor wisely keeps silent.

 

The Muslim looks around the room. "Is there anyone

in the class who has

ever seen the professor's brain?". The class breaks

out in laughter.

The Muslim points towards his elderly,

crumbling tutor.

"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the

professor's brain...,

felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the

professor's brain?".

No one appears to have done so.

 

The Muslim shakes his head sadly.

"It appears no-one here has had any sensory

perception of the professor's

brain whatsoever. Well, according to the rules of

empirical,

stable, demonstrable protocol, science, I DECLARE

that the professor has no brain."

 

The class is in chaos.

 

The Muslim sits... Because that is what a chair is for.

 

Story provided by Mahomed, Feroz,

Feroz.Mahomed@hulami n.co.za

Author unknown

 

from http://www.livingisl am.org/sis_e.html#ex pl

[Nur]

Hassan bro

 

Atheists have more arguments than the above, their most lethal lie is the evolution theory, which reduces life to chance, their logical fallacies are helped by Christianity which lost its way and Judaism which dropped Allah for the Gold.

 

Its high time Muslims get involved in this area of philosophical Dawa to free non Muslims from their bondage to phoney science and phoney religion to Islam, the only remaining true faith on earth.

 

Jazaakallahu khierna for the piece

 

Nur

[Johnny B]

^ Sheikh Nur,

 

Since you know the necessity of Atheism relays on more and better solid ground than the young one's wanting but grotesque analogy of a philosophy professor, why don't you feed him with few of those 'lethal' arguments and let him wrestle with them.?

 

Not that I prefer one Abrahamic myth over the other but your accusations towards Christianity and Judaism could of be fairly substantiated.

[Hassan_B]

As-salaamu 'alaykum Br. Nur.

 

 

You're definitely right. The theory of evolution is currently the bedrock of Atheism. Their religion is materialism and their doctrine is evolution.

 

The reason why I chose the above article is not because of the completeness of its refutation but rather because it is lighthearted. Too much seriousness can dull the soul. I felt like I as watching an action thriller while reading it, very enjoyable. for a detail article read Shaykh Nuh's piece.

 

Christianity and Judaism have been defeated by the scientists. It is clear that from historical textual criticism point of view that the Bible is full of forgeries. This is accepted in all major universities and academia in general. This is not news as it was discovered centuries ago I believe by christian priests that applied the methods of historical textual criticism. The bible is inauthentic to say the least.

 

The Qur'an is totally the opposite. We have copies from the first century after the hijra and the same as we have it now even though it does not show vocalizations as this was added later on. Also, there is only 1 qur'an on the earth now, that in itself is a miracle. Regardless of what you may think, the Qur'an is an authentic text.

 

Next level is the miracles of the Qur'an, to numerous to mention here.

 

Recently however it does seem that the atheists, christians, and jews (not all of them but the detractors of islam seem to be composed from some of them) are joining politically to fight Islam. Islam is the only coherent way of life that can withstand the onslaught of materialism in its various forms and those traditions have already given into it.

 

JB,

Having graduated with a biochemistry degree, it is as Br. Nur has said. Namely that evolution is based on chance, and if taken to its logical conclusion would say that existence itself is based on chance. The fact that scientists believe in it does nothing to mitigate the fact that it is contrary to our experience of the world. To say I was made from a single cell to my trillion+ celled body with no guiding force is simply unbelievable and unnatural. Not to mention the lack of evidence there is for it. The scientists have already made up their mind to exclude God out of the picture and what ever evidence they get they unnaturally try to fit it into their already designed grand-scheme.

[Nur]

Jahnny boy

 

You write:

 

Since you know the necessity of Atheism relays on more and better solid ground than the young one's wanting but grotesque analogy of a philosophy professor

 

 

You jumping on the wrong foot saaxib already, this statement does not hold water, I only meant that evolution is the ultimate lie, the professors lie was a hobbyist lie.

 

 

I do not feed anyone, but I enrich discussions with common sense, apart from your sarcasm, I would like that you take on this issue in an intellectual way, I appreciate if you can start with the reliability of the evolution theory as a basis of the Atheism fallacy.

 

Nur

[Johnny B]

Where is Alle-ubahne , i'd ask him to sing with me.

 

' IS you is or is you not ma ba...'.

 

Whether Islam is or is not a part of the Abrahamic Monotheistic dynasty is for you to ponder my younger brother?

[Hassan_B]

No one is saying Islam is not part of the abrahamic tradition. It is all over the Qur'an. It is just that Islam is the last train home.

 

[52:29]

Therefor warn (men, O Muhammad). By the grace of Allah thou art neither soothsayer nor madman.

 

[52:30]

Or say they: (he is) a poet, (one) for whom we may expect the accident of time ?

 

[52:31]

Say (unto them): Except (your fill)! Lo! I am with you among the expectant.

 

[52:32]

Do their minds command them to do this, or are they an outrageous folk ?

 

[52:33]

Or say they: He hath invented it ? Nay, but they will not believe!

 

[52:34]

Then let them produce speech the like thereof, if they are truthful.

 

[52:35]

Or were they created out of naught ? Or are they the creators ?

 

[52:36]

Or did they create the heavens and the earth ? Nay, but they are sure of nothing!

 

[52:37]

Or do they own the treasures of thy Lord ? Or have they been given charge (thereof) ?

 

[52:38]

Or have they any stairway (unto heaven) by means of which they overhear (decrees). Then let their listener produce some warrant manifest!

 

[52:39]

Or hath He daughters whereas ye have sons ?

 

[52:40]

Or askest thou (Muhammad) a fee from them so that they are plunged in debt ?

 

[52:41]

Or possess they the Unseen so that they can write (it) down ?

 

[52:42]

Or seek they to ensnare (the messenger) ? But those who disbelieve, they are the ensnared!

 

[52:43]

Or have they any god beside Allah ? Glorified be Allah from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)!

 

[52:44]

And if they were to see a fragment of the heaven falling, they would say: A heap of clouds.

 

[52:45]

Then let them be (O Muhammad), till they meet their day, in which they will be thunder-stricken,

 

[52:46]

A day in which their guile will naught avail them, nor will they be helped.

 

[52:47]

And verily, for those who do wrong, there is a punishment beyond that. But most of them know not.

 

[52:48]

So wait patiently (O Muhammad) for thy Lord’s decree, for surely thou art in Our sight; and hymn the praise of thy Lord when thou uprisest,

 

[52:49]

And in the night-time also hymn His praise, and at the setting of the stars.

 

[Johnny B]

Sheikh Nurow, You must have missed my exchanges with brother Norf regarding the coupling of Atheism and the scientific theory of Evolution.

 

Atheism is as old as Theism, while the scietific theory of Evolution is around 200 years old.

 

They're two different things altogetehr.

 

Could your wish of coupling them stem from your inherent need to depict Atheism just as flawed as Theism if not worse?.

 

Hassan, I was calling you on your claim of 'The Qur'an' beeing totaly the opposite where the Bible and the Talmud failed in front of the uncompromising 'Nullius in Verba' Science.

[Hassan_B]

Originally posted by Johnny B:

Hassan, I was calling you on your claim of 'The Qur'an' beeing totaly the opposite where the Bible and the Talmud failed in front of the uncompromising 'Nullius in Verba' Science.

This is true. The Qur'an is untouched and approachable with these methods. The Bible and the Talmud failed because of the adulterations by men adding things and omitting others.

 

You should re-read the verses quoted. The arguments are the same the people are the same. They only difference is that the arguments are now a bit more complicated with the smokescreen of scientific objectivity as a cover. But their basis are the same.

[Johnny B]

Hassan, My day's schema is blurring away so i won't delve into that 'Smoke screen' huff of hot air, but keep you in your square of the field by protesting wildly against your notion of the 'Qur'an' being untouched and scientifically robust, disregarding the abrogation that admittedly took place and the disappearance of a number of "Qur'anic" collections under one of the 'kalifas'.

 

 

See to it that your divine book does not turn into a 'version' of divine revelation, and there I give you the last word.

[Sherban Shabeel]

I am very sorry but evolution is not the "ultimate lie". It has been proved over and over again, through observation of fossils, through genetics, you name it.

 

That being said, I don't see why you can't believe in God at the same time. There must be some force behind it other than natural selection. The complexity of living creatures goes far beyond survival.

 

So I believe in God and evolution. I am a Christian, but I believe Muhammad was the last prophet of God, and that atheists have the right to believe what they wish. You may see contradictions here, but I don't. As everyone else, I am an intelligent human being and I can choose to have my own beliefs.

 

As for the clay thing, I think it would have become pretty obvious after a couple thousand of years that it's a METAPHOR. God expects us to be intelligent enough to understand that. Personally, I don't believe God ACTUALLY molded human beings out of clay. I believe he molded them out of genes.

 

But hey! Everyone's free to think what they want.

[Muriidi]

God created evil so we believers can feel like winners everytime we say no to evil....lol...cough. ..istighfar!

 

it is worng when arguing to take examples for God.can you see cold?!!!!

 

philosophy like any science has a purpose,that purpose is improving quality of life.

 

although the professor is trying to assess freedom of thought ,picking out muslims is wrong.

 

i see things like the evolution theory as some sort of ghanima...although i'm still not sure how to use it...also that freud fella...

 

i found out how atheism works though, it has like this on and off button and works in certaing life situations to neutralize...but it's not stable ...

"depeche mode" works much better it not only neutralizes it also ventilates.

 

 

Allah's presence is a priori for any science.

 

philosophy measures the amount of freedom applying that science(biochemistry f.ex.) gives every single individual to think freely to the extent of doubting the logic of Allah's existance.

an invention that opresses the freedom to disbelieve is not considered a natural science.

but that invention might not function because the presence of Allah swt is a priori!

[Nur]

Jahnny B.

 

Sorry to have missed your discussion with Norf on this topic. But since you are very much enthused to this topic, could you elaborate more on how Atheism relies on more solid ground than Evolution, since you have decoupled the two?

 

 

Nur

[Hassan_B]

Originally posted by Sherban Shabeel:

I am very sorry but evolution is not the "ultimate lie". It has been proved over and over again, through observation of fossils, through genetics, you name it.

 

That being said, I don't see why you can't believe in God at the same time. There must be some force behind it other than natural selection. The complexity of living creatures goes far beyond survival.

 

So I believe in God and evolution. I am a Christian, but I believe Muhammad was the last prophet of God, and that atheists have the right to believe what they wish. You may see contradictions here, but I don't. As everyone else, I am an intelligent human being and I can choose to have my own beliefs.

 

As for the clay thing, I think it would have become pretty obvious after a couple thousand of years that it's a METAPHOR. God expects us to be intelligent enough to understand that. Personally, I don't believe God ACTUALLY molded human beings out of clay. I believe he molded them out of genes.

 

But hey! Everyone's free to think what they want.

Sharben, I have few questions for you:

 

1) Do you believe the Allah is all powerful and can create as he wishes?

 

2) Do you believe in miracles?

 

3) You say you're a christian, does that mean you still believe in the trinity?

[Sherban Shabeel]

1) yes

 

2) yes

 

and

 

3) yes, but I never really knew what it means, like 99% of Christians. That's until I read an explanation by the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, a great friend of all faiths:

 

http://jmm.aaa.net.a u/articles/13459.htm

 

(you have to scroll down about to the middle)

 

So it seems the Holy Trinity is just a symbolic concept, God is still one and indivisible.