AU Road Map for Peace in Somalia

[N.O.R.F]

Northern, understanding on the need for Ethiopia to withdraw to restore peace and stability in Somalia is indeed very important. I don’t believe any party would insist on Ethiopia’s presence if sticking points were addressed. But how can they establish such understanding if they even refuse to sit down with each other? The other thing is if the Asmara team was able to meet with the UN, and is ready to deal with America (these are the powers that bestowed political legitimacy and gave financial and military support to the tfg), their refusal to sit down with other side of Somali conflict just does not add up.

Saxib, you know full well the conditions the TFG has put forward for any discussion to take place. I dont see those conditions being condusive to the situation either. Lets not make it a one way street (only reer Asmara are at fault etc).

 

The PM should be the one doing the rounds to get the concensus needed before talks can take place.

[Che -Guevara]

Xiin...Do you sincerely believe those were part to the massacres in Xamer,and help displace a million of their citizens are actually interested in peace. Entire sections of own their capital were leveled while their people become target practice for the Tigray boys. How could those were complicit and indiffirent in Mogadisho wars could be possibly reasoned with.One has to take stand Saaxib no matter how unpopular it is. It is simply an issue of morality.

 

As for the resistance, it is not nullified just cuz my tribesman from Puntland along with other tribal regions chose to be apathetic to the situation in Xamer. They can side with the Ethios or just watch from the sidelines,but that doesn't make the resistance in Xamer unless just. It is our God-given right to resist an occupier,wether our brothers join the enemy is beside the point. Past injustices doesn't justify their lack of empathy towards Mogadisho. And when the dust settles, history will not look back on them kindly even the resistance perish,and the Ethio stooges previal.

[xiinfaniin]

^^Che, you said before as much, and I believe I reasoned with you! The irony is you are dwelling in the past & present grievances of the destruction of Xamar yourself and on that bases reject to sit down with other party in this conflict...

 

Norhtern ,saaxiib I am very short on time but I must say that I did not mean to suggest that Asmara side alone is at fault here. Tfg excels in the art of speaking from both sides of its proverbial mouth; Cadde says he would meet with each and every one in Somalia’s conflict while Yey contradicts and says he would not meet with specific folks. But the reconciliation we are talking is larger than mere political stances of this entity. I can assure you if the Asmara team announces its intent to meet with tfg, as it’s, the dynamics of Somali politics would change a bit, and to the better. But it takes two to tango as the clichés goes and the tfg’s inconsistencies have not lost on me.

 

When the survival of Somalis are at stake, political conditions intended to save face are quite meaningless in the large purpose.

 

Ps—Hunguri have those brothers join SOL…so we can hear their perspective as well!

[Fabregas]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

^^

 

Good review, Baashi!

His review can be interpreted as follows:

 

 

Anyone who doesn't agree with my "keligis" reconcialition proposal is in fact a "keligis" Muslim suicide bomber, who is intent on using the people of Benadir as cannon fodder. I don't know exactly how my reconcialition works, but I'm for reconcialition anyway, it sounds rather nice. I support resistance against Xabashis, but only if it's not done by one "subclan", all the subclans including Puntland, Somaliland and Gedo have to come and help. I support resistance only if it's in the forest and Xabashis use rubber bullets! There must no civilian casualties and Salahudeen himself must emerge in Muqdisho and lead the good fight! Anybody who says that resistance continues so long as there are Ethiopians on Somali soil is a keligis Muslim! Anyone who says that no compromise on the presence of Ethiopian troops is anti peace! The war has nothing to do with Islam and Somali nationalism, rather it's between Somali clans and is indeed a proxy civil war! Don't waste your time with these suicide bombers they refuse to sit a tree so we can make peace with Abdullahi Yusuf who will phone Zenawi and kindly tell him to take his troops out!

[Hunguri]

Xiin-Finiin, saaxiib I would love to. And, I will encourage them to join. However, they may virtualy be given a thread side bomb. The good thing, is that they are aware of every thing.

[Biixi]

As long as USC/ICU, Alshabaab,...exist there'll be no peace in Somalia.

[Fabregas]

Xiin, I agree with you on the Shariah law thing and I by no means an expert it, by more organized resistances in the world in Lebanon and Palestine have not made Shariah as their immediate goal. Though I doubt people like ABu Mansur and co will compromise on that.

 

 

You didn't answer my question: should resistance be stopped and abandoned for the meanwhile? Yes or No ya akhi? That is to say: should the half "hearted measures" be completely abandoned or reorganized? It seems to me you're asking for a great deal. You want them( resistance groups) to negotiate, reconcile, unite Somalis, revive the organs of the state and not only that but also to intiate a plan to remove Ethiopian presence under the banner of all Somalis with the minimum amount of suffering to Somalia. You are asking for a Salahudeen Ayubi, and frankly Somalis don't have such a person! Reconcialition will take years and years. Negotiation and talks with Xabashis and T.F.G to negotiate a peace deal? That can be achieved, but only if the players involved agree to such a thing!........

[Fabregas]

Originally posted by Biixi:

As long as USC/ICU, Alshabaab,...exist there'll be no peace in Somalia.

I agree with you completely; Abdullahi Should destroy them all completely and then build roads, canals and build hospital for us. After that we'll live happily ever after!

[Che -Guevara]

Xiin..Let be then

 

 

LooooooooL@GJ...The inherent contradictions seem to be lost on some people.

[Biixi]

Originally posted by GJ_Goate:

quote:Originally posted by Biixi:

As long as USC/ICU, Alshabaab,...exist there'll be no peace in Somalia.

I agree with you completely; Abdullahi Should destroy them all completely and then build roads, canals and build hospital for us. After that we'll live happily ever after!

I like how you think.

[Fabregas]

Great minds think alike!

[Laba-X]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

Labo X

, to abandon the demands of shariicah implementation, for now, over a divided people in a failed state would be an easy compromise. To abandon qabil rivalry would be much, much harder in my mind. One is thing for certain though, as long we have the kind of mindset some brothers promoted in this thread, Ethiopia stands to prevail.

Ethiopia does not stand to prevail – on the contrary it has everything to lose. Ninkii dhoof ku yimid bey geeridu dhibeysaa

 

Yaa Xiin, your calls for reconciliation, though good, are not the only solutions to Somalia’s problems and certainly not achievable now. It is the final straw that is needed, but before reconciliation many ground-building googol-xaaris work needs to be done to pave the way for reconciliation. With the current state of affairs, reconciliation will not work for several reasons.

 

First though, we must establish the dichotomy between what is practically possible and what is only plausible but impractical in theory. Reconciliation is possible, at the moment, only in theory. In practice, it would be nullified by lack of mutual understanding and reciprocated notion of what reconciliation actually entails. The greatest hindrance, as you have mentioned, is Qabiil. And the elimination of tribalism is something very much unlikely to happen in a society whose foundations lie with Qabiil. In assessing the person, a man will make all sorts of discrimination, consciously or unconsciously, based on his tribe, way of talking, marriage customs, and of course the prevailing perceptions. It is inevitable and mechanical. As soon as I speak, my birthplace is detected from my tone. As soon as a man from the far Duruqsi converses with one from Sheerbi each learns of the other’s lineage. They don’t have to tell each other – their dialect does it. One talking to a Southerner or a Northerner would automatically detect their origins. Dialect itself has become a sort of discriminatory feature.

 

And it is this sort of discrimination, springing from language that is evident throughout Somalia and abroad. The basis of all tribal conflict is and has always been a case of ‘us’ against ‘them.’ The ‘them’ is an entity with multiple facets and variations, each depending on whose viewpoint is projected. A puntlander’s ‘them’ would be a Somalilander and vice versa; A Northerner would refer to ‘them’ to sort out their problems when questioned of the southerners; the Southerner will refer to ‘them’ when asked of secession. The discrimination doesn’t stop there, it is built up of a hierarchical structures delving deeper into clans, then sub-clans and sub-sub clans, each claiming legitimacy over the other. And it is these manifest differences that reconciliation alone cannot change. A new way of thinking is needed altogether.

 

If reconciliation is to be achieved through unity, then what we need is a new Paradigm Shift – and that has to be a new set of perceptions to counter the old deeply-rooted notions of Qabyaalad, not merely the rectification of pre-existing perceptions. Unless this shift in perception is attained, the inevitability of tribal discrimination continuing to corrode the hearts of the coming generations cannot be overlooked.

 

If you have stagnant sewage water forming a long puddle over a land, you cannot cut a small stream of pure water to cut across it. It will get polluted as they intermix. So let’s forget about the stagnant ideas and stagnated minds of late (the old perceptions) and dig up fresh streams, untainted by the impurities of Qabyaalad. Is that possible?

 

Call me pessimistic, but reconciliation would simply not work under the current circumstances. We, as Somalis, are not prepared to see things they way they really are. We are looking but not seeing and that’s why this shift in perception is needed in order to allow us to see things more clearly.

 

Underlying all this though is the fundamental issue of Islam and Islamic Shari’ah, which you argue we should compromise for the time being, until reconciliation is obtained. True, we cannot have secular governance functioning in parallel with Shari’ah law, just as we can’t have democratic governance alongside a dictatorial regime – exact opposite laws with equal validity cannot govern a country. So which one goes? In my view, from an Islamic perspective, to abandon, or even entertain the notion of abandoning, Islamic Shari’ah is flawed. And it is this that will see about the downfall of Somalia and depravity of her people, taking along with them the very last remnants of hope.

 

What you say, good ol’ Xiin, is what we all know. “Something is wrong, let’s fix it.” How? ‘Reconciliation’. You have offered a solution that does not take into account the thinking process, the analysis process, the other alternatives and the procedures involved in bringing about that reconciliation.

 

Every problem has a cause. Remove the cause and you eventually remove the problem. And since we all know that the root cause of all our problems is Qabiil, and you concede that it is much harder to root out, shouldn’t our efforts then be directed at finding ways to sort its problems first rather than outright pleas for reconciliation? Shouldn’t we employ a bottom-up approach to tackle the grassroots of the problem first than trying, in vain, to pioneer reconciliation?

[ElPunto]

Xiin - I think you've admirably made your case. I think all of us would be best served if the discussion moved onto the specifics of reconciliation/negotiation and its implementation.

[Malika]

^ It would have been so nice if there is a guidelined map somewhere,which gives handy roadmap for reconciliation. There are no short cuts or simple prescription for healing the wounds and divisions of our society now or even after the aftermath of the looming doomed future[dramatic]. First,we will need to create trust and understanding between all the rivalry groups which would be a supremely difficult task. However it is an essential one to address in the process of building a lasting peace. How this is going to be implemented, I will be pondering on this for awhile..

 

We will need to acknowledge the journey we took to reach were we are, examine the pain and understanding it, above all transcending it together will be the best way to guarantee that it does not continue to happen and simply we can not go through the same path ever again. I know this sound so poetically unrealistic, but realistically it will need a lot of positive input from all involved parties including “US” the arm chair politicians here on SOL.

 

Each society is unique in its discovery of its own route to reconciliation. Some say if the Ethiopians leave peace will prevail, others argue conflicts were there before the Ethiopians came and so forth…

Reconciliation can not be imposed by outsiders, we have witness this failing again and again. We must find our own solution and give peace a chance!

 

 

So guys what are your suggestion to finding that path to the ever lasting peace?

[Xoogsade]

Centurion: I think we can safely say that the overwhelming majority of Somalis know(or will if we see another decade of hopeless turmoil) that a transparent and genuinely inclusive process is required. The real problem is finding the right people to initiate and deliver this process.

This quote above from the first page touches the most important point and prerequisites with regards to reconciliation and peace. You need partners for peace with credibility. If you don't have them, it is a waste of time. As long as the TFG exists as it is and in its current form, there will be no peace. You can not trust a single person among the top dogs in that organization with the exception of the new PM whose pronouncements are yet to be implemented.

 

Some of you can sound the right notes all they want, but the bottomline is to give the opposition and people whose lives have been destroyed a real deal for which they can settle, and to brin men whom they can trust their word to the negotiating table for them to lay down the weapons. If not, there will be no resolution. The war in Muqdisho and in some other parts in the south goes on as I write relentless.

 

Hunguri

 

Does your friends know that you call a war criminal your hero? that your hero is for others a monster who should be hanged? that he is a man who waged a war on the defenseless and on the unarmed civilians whom he killed by the thousands already? You are one among many reasons people are skeptical of peace talk saxib to be honest. Calling for Peace with the TFG criminals is a hollow call that doesn't take into account the real grievances people have and the change they require for peace to be there. They can't trust the same criminals who bloodied them without remorse. In addition to that, peace is impossible while the same forces who empower these warlords are still around, namely Xabashi troops. And we know as well for a fact that there is no incentive for the warlords to co-sign peace because peace requires them to give-up their ill-gotten status. The same reasons these criminals and warlords dealt a heavy blow to peace yesterday are still there, sitting with them is just being delusional, and in some cases, down right dishonest.