AU Road Map for Peace in Somalia

[ElPunto]

^Your cartoon would be appropriate if anyone was holding a gun to the Asmara Group's head. Alas - the international community is pleading with them for their involvment to no avail. Good try there.

 

Funny cartoon tho.

[Gabbal]

North-

 

It is really simple! People have decided to put down their masks for once!

 

Paragon and the rest, I disagree. When discussing something, you have to have legitimacy to discuss it. As a student of international relations, I trust you understand the importance of reputation for policy-making. For some, as clever Ayoub had recognized, Kismaayo was the hand that peels off the facade!

 

Maanta dhan waxa dadka lagu maaweelinayo waa Abdullahi Yusuf la fadhiista. Inaa lilaah, war ilaahaan idinku dhaariyaye, sabab? Dee dhibki baa batay. Oo miyuusan Abdullahi Yusuf dhibkaas ka mas'uul ahayn? Maya, maya Abdullahi Yusuf iyo beeshayada waa la garan daran yahay ee dabka idin ku daaran baa idinka damayo. OO waayahye dabku yaa daaray? Mooji.

 

^^The crux of their argument! That is an insult to the our intelligence!

[ElPunto]

^Yes A/Y is the sole reason the country is in this mess. Before him it was all - kumbaya!

 

Talk about an insult to one's intelligence. :rolleyes:

[Fabregas]

Originally posted by ThePoint:

^Your cartoon would be appropriate if anyone was holding a gun to the Asmara Group's head. Alas - the international community is pleading with them for their involvment to no avail. Good try there.

 

Funny cartoon tho.

Didn't Nur Cade meet them in Asmara? Didn't Mr Yusuf state that any opposition groups must disarm and recognise his authority? You have to differentiate between negotiating and surrendering Somalia to Meles Zenawi on a plate! Anyway why the sudden rush to negotiate with "defeated terrorists", whom were supposed to be rounded up and captured? Even the warlord mayor of Muqdisho is know pleading for dialogue, perhaps he cares about the "people" now?

[ElPunto]

^I am not aware that he did. Could you please provide the proof?

 

I disagree with Mr. Yusuf if he said that. That is a foolish position to take.

 

'Defeated terrorists' are not my words. Kindly refrain from questioning my position with words not my own.

 

Whether the mayor cares or not doesn't matter in the end. What matters is whether you care.

[Gabbal]

Originally posted by ThePoint:

^Yes A/Y is the sole reason the country is in this mess. Before him it was all - kumbaya!

 

Talk about an insult to one's intelligence. :rolleyes:

Yes Point, A/Y personification of Somalia's problem in recent times.

 

People such as I were wrong to turn against the ICU for whatever reason, but no one but Abdullahi Yusuf is more responsible for the incursion of Ethiopia and the destruction of life that continues to take place in Mogadishu and elsewhere. He would have been responsible for the same thing in places such as Kismaayo were he not politically outmaneuvered in regards to his overlords, i.e Ethiopians.

 

The essence of the argument put forth by individuals on your side is to sit down now, at the last hour, with Abdullahi Yusuf affording him a form of political redemption. That, I trust you now understand, is simply not feasible!

[Paragon]

Horn:

 

Paragon and the rest, I disagree. When discussing something, you have to have legitimacy to discuss it. As a student of international relations, I trust you understand the importance of reputation for policy-making. For some, as clever Ayoub had recognized, Kismaayo was the hand that peels off the facade!

Horn, sxb, you know waxaan ula dan leeyahay hadalkayga. I understand full well the importance of continuing with debate on Kismaayo, and again, you know my stance on Kismaayo, which can be summarized thus: Oohinta inaga daaya akhyaarta, Kismaayo idin dhaaftay, sidaad idinkuba dadkii asalkeedi lahaa aad u dhaafsiiseen, ee karaamada yaanan layska qaadin!

 

My suggestion of going beyond Kismaayo is to simply safe face for some folks in here, who only seem to be delve into the belly of drivel, a tendency that does not do justice to the established characters. But if you insist on the continuation of discussing the Kismaayo issue, then, I say, by all means do please .

[ElPunto]

^Personification? Is this English class?

 

Somalia's problems are bigger than one individual even A/Y. Anyone who argues otherwise is simply foolish.

 

Political redemption? Newsflash - the world thinks of him as the 'legitimate' president of the country. The Asmara group enjoys no such distinction.

 

Can I get a non lightwieght argument here?

 

PS - "People such as I were wrong to turn against the ICU for whatever reason" - now that's funny. It wasn't whatever reason - it was that they were threatening your 'beloved' Kismayo and your uncles there.

[Gabbal]

Paragon-

 

Waa hagaag adeer, qaalinimadaan kugu jeclahay.

[Che -Guevara]

Horn is having field day with Kismayo thang.

[Kashafa]

Originally posted by Che -Guevara:

The people in Somalia have moved on

, and that doesn't mean they don't want past grievances to addressed, but

they have realised they need each other

whether they like or not. It is ones in the diasporo

who are still bitter

(Baashi, etc)* about their experiences from the past conflicts or are bent on

exploiting their people

(Dhabho-dhilif warlords, tolerated or forgiven by confused brothers like Xiin)* that perpetuate the idea that Somalis can't reconcile and move forward.

*highlighting, parenthesis, and editing are mine

 

Most insightful comment made on this thread and a comment(in context with it's whole post) that shows why WE(Soomalida Xaalasha ah) are the future of Somalia and why those who advocate hate, cuqdad, "anaka aa iska leh", are a dying breed, relics of the civil war which they re-fight in their minds over and over again. With the passing of every day, they become more and more marginalized and irrelevant, hence their ever strident and shrill calls. The clannists of Somalia have all thrown their lot with the Dhabo-dhilif TFG. And what a collection of traitorous warlords and genocidal war criminals. You have Abdullahi Yusuf, Ra'sul Kufri wal Nifaaq and his supporters. You have Abdi-Qaybdiid and his supporters. You have Shaatiguduud and his supporters. You have the now-disfranchised Hiirale and his supporters. And on and on. They only thing that unites them is a) a commitment to dhabo-dhilifnimo, happy to serve Ethiopian orders in return for the illusion of power b) virulent clannism. My Tol. Anaka. Fowr-bointi-fife.

 

Their days are over. And so are the days of their supporters, who we see flailing around in this forum as they see the March of Progress, as they see the last death gasps of the TFG. Like a drowning man gasping for air, they turn every which way possible in a futile bid to rationalise their disastrous policy. Xabasho wadan-ka hanee qabato ay is-daheen. Much success that. Reconciliation and humanitarian concern, are the latest tools they wield. Keep in mind, good reader, that Reconciliation and Humanitarian concern were never mentioned when Mogadisho was being razed to ground, when hospitals were being targeted, when 1 million IDPs were forced to flee with only the clothes on their back. It is only now that they speak of reconciliation, as they see the morbid writing on the wall.

 

As my man Che said: SOMALIA HAS MOVED ON. Like it or not. A testament to that solidarity, that kal-gacayl, those bonds of brotherhood forged in Islamnimo, manifested itself for the whole world to see, when Somali young bucks streamed forth from every tuulo and every village in December '06 and fought, as one body, against the Tigray/TFG alliance. Another testament, how during the ICU-led Somalia, tribal divisions were torn down, stolen property returned to it's owners, and real peace and stability reigned supreme. Those who cry Reconciliation ! Compromise !, do so because they are staring at grim defeat(and death for their favorite warlord) in the face.

 

Make no mistake about it: Ethiopia will be forced out of Somalia, leaving the dhabo-dhilifs behind, same way as the Americans left behind the puppet South Vietnamese government and the same way the Russians left behind Najibullah and the Communists.

 

And when they are expelled, We, Soomalida Xaalasha ah, will sit down as brothers and determine our destiny, right the wrongs of yesteryear, and, slowly but surely, move toward the path of nationhood. It will not happen overnight, it will take blood, toil, tears, and sweat. But Bi'idnillahi Tacaalaa, it will happen.

 

Those who call for bogus Reconciliation want to short-circuit that path and insist on incorporating the worst war criminals Somalia has seen into a sham 'unity government'. NewsFlash: It's not gonna happen. Too much blood has been shed, too much lives lost, too much devastation and destruction, for us to turn around, when Victory is just around the corner, and accept an Ethiopian puppet government.

[Kashafa]

Originally posted by GJ_Goate:

Five years ago, one his hardcore supporters told one of my relatives that

they would use the CIA and others to subdue Wadaads

and destroy their powers as

their place was only in the Masjid

. These are type of people you are dealing with. How can you reconcile with a person who doesn't want to? Ina Yeey has always made his choice the gun. This is the same man that stood in the false parliament and

declared that he would wage war against all religous men, take their wealth and remove them from very institution in Somalia

.

Of course his supporters will blindly follow what he screams

. The condition of this man is that anyone who wants to negotiate with him must recognize him, lay down their weapons and approach him smaller man than him. Who's going to meet those demands.

In the face of this irrefutable argument, you will find only silence amongst the Is-Qancis Brigade. They love to comment on peripheral secondary issues(Kismayo, etc), but not this. No, Sir.

What is there to compromise with them? AH,

you can sell 50 wadaads only this year

?

You can only set up 5000 checkpoints or rape less women?

Those men are xawayaan saxiib and they will be treated and subdued like the xawayaan they are, if they don't repent and stop the harm they are doing

Thousands of Somalis can't be wasted over 2 years fighting against warlords and Ethiopia only for the same people to be returned to power under the slogan of reconciliation.

They'll skip through this one too. It is said that if you repeat a lie and hammer on it constantly, it becomes 'the truth'. That's what they aim to to do with their Reconciliation talk, as it has no logical footing whatsoever. North's Cartoon sums it up best: Negotiate with me, while I kill your people, rape your women, destroy your country, and set-up an puppet government made up of war criminals to dictate my terms to you.

 

Yes, Let us Negotiate. Yes, Let us Reconcile. Yes, Let us Compromise. While you kiss my butt.

 

Pathetic, purely pathetic.

[xiinfaniin]

No reconciliation because:

 

1) TFG is evil entity, it’s a collection of criminals and warlords and to sit down with them would amount to giving them undeserving legitimacy.

2) Victory is around the corner. The resistance against Ethiopian occupation has begun to produce tangible results. There is only one year left for this defunct entity to expire. Let al shabaab wait it out…they will win.

3) Ethiopians must withdraw first (I am not sure if this means from all of Somali regions or just only from Xamar), and unless that takes place talking about reconciliation is just too gullible…dishonest.

 

Those, more or less, are the reasons presented for the vote against reconciliation at this point of time. I pondered on each one of these arguments. And here is what I estimated for these positions to mean.

 

With all due respect to them, brothers who made those arguments come across as resentful and angry, and rightfully so, about the injustices and the atrocities committed by the Ethiopian army BUT equally inconsiderate about the consequences and suffering their approach would cause if Somalia’s trajectory is not altered by peaceful means. Their argument in its entirety, despite their eloquence and the rhetorical bullets they use, rests purely on raw emotions (look at Goat’s or Kashafa’s posts). And it’s in that fog of emotion that sadly blinds them to see what the point of having any reconciliation really is. The Mogadishu atrocities these brothers so readily cite are the very reason I am calling for a truce. It’s very simple folks: in the Mogadishu battle Ethiopia won and Somalis lost. And if we continue fighting in the today’s global context, we are risking a lasting defeat. That may damage your pride but it’s a fact. Somalis are not that many in numbers. And in the rate we are dying the very survival of our kind is really at stake. Check this, brothers: Ethiopia’s soldiers are performing their duties in the furthest corner of their nemesis territory. Their goal is not to stay in Xamar and occupy it. Their mission is to put you down while you are weak and they are strong. When you celebrate for liberating a police station, and perhaps in the process kill dozens of your own, in the heart of your capital, it signifies your loss. Every hoobiye you fire represents an opportunity for Ethiopian army to assess and eliminate your newly found strength, cause the exodus of your own civilians, and vandalize and destroy your infrastructure. If they withdraw today they would do so knowing that their mission of setting Somalia back to at least few decades is done. But they would also withdraw knowing that they have accomplished something even more valuable than that. They would know that the likes of Kashafa and Xoogga would have enough bitterness and anger to continue fighting against what is Somalis in the Ethiopia’s books but dabodhilifs in Kashafa’s mindset. With such narrowness in your outlook, and resentments against certain segments of Somalia’s political groupings, you are indeed a great asset for Ethiopia to achieve her objectives, unwittingly of course. The residual of anger and grievance left behind by the events of the last year will have what it takes for us to regress even deeper into our civil war. But you don’t care. You really don’t. No humanitarian thought. No national consideration. Anyone who disagrees with you is either dishonest, or dabodhilif, or, even worse, you would find a way to impeach their integrity and indict their credibility. If Goats of this world and Kashafa’s of this world are the soomalida xalaasha ah who supposedly will save Somalia and its people, Somalia is doomed---fated to fail and disintegrate into small pieces. Wa cala suumaali salaam!

 

Look at brother Northern! The man finds rational way to support an entity that is securely in Ethiopia’s column. Yet, somehow, he also finds and at times articulates reasons to oppose dialog and compromise to settle the conflict in Xamar! What gives brother? Resentment against an old man who also happens to be terminally sick? Lack of appreciation of the enormous consequences continuing this fight with a foe whose military capacity and organized army we have no match for would have? Convenient dislike of what the tfg stands for? What is it yaa N?

 

Folks, you must understand our divisions are real and deep. And divided people, as we are, can never succeed in their struggle against a united foe. Without political reconciliation, Somalia’s conflict will even get messier, and the current humanitarian crisis even more dire. Truth, peace, justice, and forgiveness are what Somalis and Somalia need today. If Somalis political divide had similar goals and concepts of governance, there wouldn’t be any need for reconciliation. But because Somalis have fundamental political differences over which they so violently fought each other and sought the help of Ethiopia, our historical enemy, to tip the military balance, we must wise up, shun this puritan approach of this-is-evil-and-that-is-devil crap, and accept the painful fact that no one side can win this even if one side entertains it could. Our politics is qabiil based with a secular tilt. But our masses are ripe for a government that transcends beyond tribal boundaries, and reflects their religious values. But peace and stability must come first before such maturity is harvested.

 

And how can I end this without exposing the utter absurdity of the assertion that there can be no reconciliation because too much blood has been shed, too many muslimaat have been gang raped, or too much property have been destroyed. Isn’t that the very reason we are in dire need for reconciliation, brother? I mean don’t you see it…

 

 

Notes on the margin

===================

 

Ikhyaarta, I care my people more than I do about al shabaabs (a segment of my people). If one wants to fight Ethiopia and its interest it does not has to be Xamar. But I oppose the strategy of fighting in the name of shacbu soomaal while showing no consideration of what the enemy would do to the very shacab whose name one claims to fight for. You know it takes some time to assess your strategy but one can’t stubbornly continue implementing the same failed strategy. And it’s about time to change it. Don’t get me wrong for I love these al shabaab fighters. I think they are wonderful people with good intentions. But to be brutally truthful I’ve concluded that in the short run our goals differ and diverge. For now the goal should be to unite the people through compromise, and NOT to settle scores with Ethiopia. The latter is a long term goal.

[Fabregas]

Kashafa, I don't disagree with negotiation and reconcialition/dialogue. In fact, if Zenawi wanted to talk to the I.C.U, I would advocate for that. I am for talks even with the warlords leaders of the T.F.G or even George Bush. I just don't agree with this wishful thinking that say; Somalis( all political groups) will sit a tree; sort out their differences; hug/make up; and then Ethiopians will watch from a distance/pack their bags and head of to the border. I am also of the position that NO Reconcialition can happen in a country that is occupied, it has never happened in history. Somalis can't reconcile whilst there are Ethiopian Troops in Somalia, some might even say SOmalis can't reconcile full stop, but that is another debate altogether.

[Fabregas]

Xiin, shabaab is a name that was used for all Young Somali Islamists from every Somali region, but today some people are trying to monopolize the the name/entity. They are the shacaab themselves and many of the shacaab are supporting them. Secondly, the resistance is not being done by one little group( Al Shabaab)or subclan.