AU Road Map for Peace in Somalia

[N.O.R.F]

Xiin, as I have already stated, the discussion must go on from simply repeating the need for negotiations to discussing the facts on the gound and how the present situation can be changed to something more favourable for the people. In my previous posts I stated the need for a consensus/understanding on the need to remove the Ethios from Somalia before any discussion can take place (the occupation was the main reason opposition parties are refusing to peace talks the last time I checked). What do you think? Is this the only way to go? If not why not? You see good Xiin, I'm trying to be realistic here and wish to discuss the way forward. Fluffy words are fine but lets get real akhi.

[Jacaylbaro]

You're expecting too much from Xiin sxb ,,,,,

[xiinfaniin]

Originally posted by Northerner:

Xiin, as I have already stated, the discussion must go on from simply repeating the need for negotiations to discussing the facts on the gound and how the present situation can be changed to something more favourable for the people. In my previous posts I stated the need for a consensus/understanding on the need to remove the Ethios from Somalia before any discussion can take place (the occupation was the main reason opposition parties are refusing to peace talks the last time I checked). What do you think? Is this the only way to go? If not why not? You see good Xiin, I'm trying to be

realistic

here and wish to discuss the way forward. Fluffy words are fine but lets get real akhi.

Northern, brother facts in Somalia are dismal and point to a failed state whose people are being abused as we type away these words on this screen. As I requested from the other brothers before just for a second forget about what positions warring functions are presently taking and tell me what position YOU as an individual take on the question of unconditional negotiation between all Somali parties. Ethiopia is a poor nation and her presence on our soil is empowered by our division and maintained by America. The fat woman that visited Hargeysa this week is the top supervisor for all of this and you know it. The UN is footing some of the bills tfg technocrats are getting. Yet our Asmara team was able to meet with them and discuss the way forward. Ethiopia must withdraw is a noble slogan but impractical at the moment as the powers-that-be insist on her occupation in Somalia due to their security concerns and fears of a power vacuum.

 

As you can see I am being realistic and rejecting the commands of my heart (fight and die in dignity). You on the other hand are clinching to conditions that you know can hardly be met in a timely manner. Again before you ask me about the practical steps and the possible ways to create favorable conditions on the ground to make the outcome of the said reconciliation more profitable, don’t you think you need to embrace it first quite firmly? I mean, I am still sensing a measure of timidity in your stance brother!

 

Jac, If you did not notice it already, this is not the type of discussion where a lazy one-liner can participate in!

[Kashafa]

3- Should Alshabab and I.C.U

abandon demands for Shariah law

and join and compromise with a secular government?

 

Yes. Absulately.

And I know Courts would compromise on this. I dont know about al shabaab though.

"Afa xukmal Jaahiliyati yab'qoon, waman axsanu minallahi xukman li qowmin yoo'qinoon"

 

Short on time, but lemme say it like this: You could've said that long time past and saved us a whole lotta time and debate. Broadly(but accurately) put, you want the Courts/Muqaawama to compromise and capitulate on everything and anything 'for the sake of peace'. So that they can mollify and appease the TFG/Tigray alliance into not massacring the civilian populace. If Zenawi signed an order saying that every Somali male had to make sujood whenever he encouters a Ethiopian soldier, Xiin-ka Faneen-ka would accept it, ostensibly 'for the sake of peace'. I'm being entirely serious. If things(leadership) were in your hands, and al-xamdulilah that it's not, al-xamdulilah that you are a mere online binary avatar, you would see to it that Somalis made sujood to Ethiopian soldiers, 'for the sake of peace'.

 

Might be an exaggerated(but accurate) example, but I'm just tryna show you how far to Loony-ville your 'for the sake of peace' rationalisation has taken you.

 

So let me change the parameters of this debate a lil bit and ask you this: What(if at all) would make you support, absolutely unequivocally, the cause of time-honoured Resistance against Taaghoot, Tyranny, and in Somalia's case Tol-ka ?

 

Anything at all ?

 

In the year 1258, when the Mongol hordes sacked Baghdad, burning that ancient city to the ground, and murdering in cold blood close to 2 million(it's not a typo..2,000,000) of it's people. Historians(Ibnu Katheer among others) speak of the wahan and the ducuf that struck the Muslims of that era. To the point that after the destruction of Baghdad was completed, a Mongol lady would see a Muslim man cowering in fear on the streets, in a daze, wondering how he is yet alive. And she would walk up to him and say: "Good Morning Darling, I would very much like to slaughter you but I'm facing a bit of a dilemma. My sword isn't sharp enough to cut your throat. Could you please wait here while I sharpen it ? I won't be gone for more than 2 hours. Thanks, sweetie."

 

And that Muslim man, wahan and ducuf filling his heart, would stay there, just as she ordered him to, for hours and hours on end, untill she came back with the sword and slaughtered him. He did this 'for the sake of peace and stability', just like our wise sage Xiin so expertly pontificates on.

 

Another Mongol woman would gather around strong able-bodied Muslim soldiers who escaped the battle, and she'd chain them up like they were cattle and drive them to the slave market. Historians record 100 men being led by one woman. 'Peace and Stability' strikes again. Baghdad burns, completely annihilated, but these men, all of Xin's mold, did there part by not engaging in ineffective resistance. Instead they meekly bent over their necks, so that the lady could have a easier time cutting of their heads. Or they helped put on the slave-chains and walked to the slave market. They were wise men, ideed. They compromised and negotiated their way to death, infamy, and the worst total annihilation of a city recorded by mankind, worser than even Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

 

Ladies and Gentleman, I present to you Brother Xiin's proposal: Negotiate(Submit), Reconcile(Submit again), Unity(ABS, Always be Submitting)....also known as complete and utter hogwash. Brothaman has good intentions and means well, but he is completely off his rocker with this joint. Wax la gartay ay ahaan lahayd, if he was championing strategic Hudaybian negotiations that would make substantial concessions in return for winning the battle in the long run, I'm all for that, but the good brother is labouring under the false premises and warped rationalisation that traitorous dhabo-dhilifs and genocidal warlords mean good for the country and are men that can be worked with as opposed to hung from the tallest Qurac tree. And therein lies the root of his confusion: Naive Optimism.

 

What he frustratingly(for a man of his caliber) fails to comprehend is this: That a Paradigm Shift has occurred within Somali Politics and amongst Ummada Soomaliyeed. That there is a new breed of men on the block. Men of conviction who understand the high stakes at hand, who consciously live the fact that we are going through the defining moment of the entire history of Somali-dom. That we are on the verge, the cusp of a victory that will bring national healing and unforced unity, as it did in the summer and fall of 2006. That for once in 200 years, just this once, we have the opportunity to exterminate Ethiopian influence from all of Somalia.

 

Marka Xin, we'll do a point, counter-point debate some other time, but for now, just think about how your stance is so synonymous with the weaklings and the low-lifes of history. All the Taghoots love your mentality because it makes life much more easier for them. Hitler(and Zenawi) would be pinning medals all over you. Seriously.(Think Vichy France, that's all you, abti.)

[xiinfaniin]

^^

 

Brother, peace and stability (political and economic as well) are prerequisites for sharicah governance! Despite your theatrical response, I don’t believe I made a disturbing call when I suggested to exact political stability Courts will and should compromise on the shariicah implementation.

[Fabregas]

quote:If Zenawi signed an order saying that every Somali male had to make sujood whenever he encouters a Ethiopian soldier, Xiin-ka Faneen-ka would accept it, ostensibly 'for the sake of peace'.

 

 

Isku xishood ninyahow, ilahay ka baq!

[me]

Kashafa and Xiin a.k.a. the surwaal-gaab coalition.

 

Let me throw in my one-liners.

 

I think that you both agree that Somalis should stop fighting each other.

 

I also believe that you guys both want that the Ethiopians should be kicked out of Somalia.

 

 

So if you both agree on these two points suaasho waxa weeye maxaad isku haysataan?

 

I believe waxaad isku haysataan how to reach these two goals.

 

I think that your both wrong on how to achieve these two goals or at least you guys misunderstand each other or I misunderstand you guys. Whatever it may be.......I believe that both your approaches are needed in tandem.

 

Hardliners and moderates are needed and to achieve these goals, military as well as diplomatic means are needed. Diplomacy alone won't get you anywhere and force alone won't make you win the war. I think that you guys catch my drift.

 

Maybe you should find a middle ground and work from there.

 

 

Ps. Kashafa I like your theatrics but sometimes you need to be pragmatic in your approach. I prescribe you 2 sessions with paragon.

[Laba-X]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

1- If Ethiopians are staying in Somalia for another year, what approach should Somalis take? I.e. Should Somalis stop resistance for the time being as everyone is dying according to you?

 

In the face of a united somalis, Ethiopias would be worrying about thier own stability and would not be insisting staying on our soil. That does not mean they wouldn't frustrate our efforts toward unity. But even if Ethiopians decide to continue thier occupation after somalis had politically reconciled then you would agree with me whatever somalis decide would be more effective than the half measaure strategy some are currently employing.

[/b]

Agree!

 

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

2- Should they unite first, reconcile and then fight the good fight against the occupiers?

 

Yes. They should remove thier political differences through compromise, revive the organs of their state, and prepare themselves the regional challenges that await them.

Ok. If implementation fo this is practically possible and Somalis can unite under one banner, then I am all for it.

 

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

3- Should Alshabab and I.C.U abandon demands for Shariah law and join and compromise with a secular government?

 

Yes. Absulately. And I know Courts would compromise on this. I dont know about al shabaab though.

...Is this the Paradigm Shift you are advocating for brother Xiin - to abandon the demands for an implementation of shari'ah governance? A compromise with a secular government, you say, is the alternative? And are you aware of what you are compromising?

 

And then you go on to say that:

peace and stability (political and economic as well) are prerequisites for sharicah governance!

Ok, and who do you suggest would be bringing about their existence and who would implement them? Yeey and his Ethiopian cronies or the Islamic fighters?

[N.O.R.F]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

quote:Originally posted by Northerner:

Xiin, as I have already stated, the discussion must go on from simply repeating the need for negotiations to discussing the facts on the gound and how the present situation can be changed to something more favourable for the people. In my previous posts I stated the need for a consensus/understanding on the need to remove the Ethios from Somalia before any discussion can take place (the occupation was the main reason opposition parties are refusing to peace talks the last time I checked). What do you think? Is this the only way to go? If not why not? You see good Xiin, I'm trying to be

realistic here and wish to discuss the way forward. Fluffy words are fine but lets get real akhi.

Northern, brother facts in Somalia are dismal and point to a failed state whose people are being abused as we type away these words on this screen. As I requested from the other brothers before just for a second forget about what positions warring functions are presently taking and tell me what position YOU as an individual take on the question of unconditional negotiation between all Somali parties. Ethiopia is a poor nation and her presence on our soil is empowered by our division and maintained by America. The fat woman that visited Hargeysa this week is the top supervisor for all of this and you know it. The UN is footing some of the bills tfg technocrats are getting. Yet our Asmara team was able to meet with them and discuss the way forward. Ethiopia must withdraw is a noble slogan but impractical at the moment as the powers-that-be insist on her occupation in Somalia due to their security concerns and fears of a power vacuum.

 

As you can see I am being realistic and rejecting the commands of my heart (fight and die in dignity). You on the other hand are clinching to conditions that you know can hardly be met in a timely manner. Again before you ask me about the practical steps and the possible ways to create favorable conditions on the ground to make the outcome of the said reconciliation more profitable, don’t you think you need to embrace it first quite firmly? I mean, I am still sensing a measure of timidity in your stance brother!

 

Jac

, If you did not notice it already, this is not the type of discussion where a lazy one-liner can participate in!

With all due respect saxib, I have already stated my stance. Yes I’m all for reconciliation of all factions involved in the current conflict. I’m I in favour of an unconditional reconciliation? No. Before any of that takes place, a general understanding between all parties on the need for the removal of the Ethiopian occupying forces, must be attained. Why do I think this condition is important? I believe it is the only way ‘unconditional’ dialogue could be achieved afterwards. The small step before the big step as such. I don’t think there is anything wrong in my assessment there akhi.

 

I think we agree on what the end result should be but we disagree on how to get there. You would like to see a coming together (unity) through all agreeing on the way forward at the same time (very difficult to attain at the moment). I believe the best way is to get two brothers to agree, then the third, the fourth etc over a period of time until they all agree. Start from the middle and branch out whilst your method would be the opposite.

[xiinfaniin]

Labo X , to abandon the demands of shariicah implementation, for now, over a divided people in a failed state would be an easy compromise. To abandon qabil rivalry would be much, much harder in my mind. One is thing for certain though, as long we have the kind of mindset some brothers promoted in this thread, Ethiopia stands to prevail.

 

ps—I just cant blve some brothers cant divorce themselves from the positions parties of Somali conflict take, or don’t take!

 

pps,

Northern, understanding on the need for Ethiopia to withdraw to restore peace and stability in Somalia is indeed very important. I don’t believe any party would insist on Ethiopia’s presence if sticking points were addressed. But how can they establish such understanding if they even refuse to sit down with each other? The other thing is if the Asmara team was able to meet with the UN, and is ready to deal with America (these are the powers that bestowed political legitimacy and gave financial and military support to the tfg), their refusal to sit down with other side of Somali conflict just does not add up.

[Che -Guevara]

Ethiopia stands to prevail.

That's cuz some make excuses for its presence.

[xiinfaniin]

^^ Care to name them so we can deal with them, brother! Unless you are full of crap!

 

I happen to think that Ethiopia stands to prevail because some of us are so dim in their intelligence that they fail to appreciate the advantages their enemy has over them.!

[Baashi]

Hehehee. Xiin awoowe let it be. You are getting nowhere. They are tackling you -- instead of the issue at hand -- as expected. Refer to Kelligii Muslim of the site Now your ikhlaas has been questioned. Kix kix.

 

You say a house divided cannot stand. They say we know what you mean -- you are secretly rooting for Inna Yussuf. Refer Tuhun-stricken squad as well as Ayoubi's lame line.

 

You say this is not about nationalism or Islam for that matter. It is about brother against brother and so long they are each other's throat their nemesis is posed to take advantage of their sad situation. They say a-a-aah we want to have a guarantee that family rival backs up first before we even consider making up with our brother.

 

You remind them one comes first before two in natural world. You say get the sequence right. You show the alliance between the other brother and the family rival he keeps at his side is predicated on the premise that his life is in danger. They say bingo we knew it you said this the other day and that long time ago in other thread -- you are busted buddy.

 

You shake your head. They laugh out loud. You ridicule their naivety. They return the compliment. You throw your arms up in cyber frustration and leave the thread. They declare victory in unison.

 

You ask are you guys okay how can you get anywhere if you are objecting, in principle, the intention to settle the conflict. They say Negative! That's not the case. What we are asking is for TFG to expose itself to the hyenas first by committing unilateral disarmament (read that as the absence of Tigre foot soldiers that protect that entity).

 

You asy conflict by definition is the continuation of hostility and unless one agrees to settle it by means other than war one is not sincere. They say give us few weeks will make the Tigre and Daba-dhilifs run for their life.

 

You remind them that PL, SL, GalMudug, Bay, Juba, Gedo are not in this fight. They say shame on them.

 

Finally you realize that you are not getting anywhere with this lot and you tell them waa hagaag waxaad ka heshaan is miidaaminta anniga waxba hs iga siinin.

[xiinfaniin]

^^

 

Good review, Baashi!

[Hunguri]

Xiin, I have been reading your thread and posts from the begining untill now. Beleive me, I have shown this thread and tell them to read some of my coleagus at work. Sudans,Arab UAE locals and Egyptians. They know alot about Somalia. Waxan ku idhi waar bal Hangariisigan akhriyoo Dadkan Somalida ah ee meesha ku doodaysa. Yay idiinla muuqataa wax macquul ah inay sheegayaan. Ku faanin maayee Xaqqaan ka hadliye. Waxay yidhaahdeen wax la af garan karo. Oo xalaal ku hadlaya ( Zin Finiin, which is Xiin-Finiin) ayaa jira. Markaa halkaa ka wad. Dadkana wax usheeg!