AU Road Map for Peace in Somalia

[Jacaylbaro]

Dagaal was never been a solution in Somalia for the last 17 years ,,,,,,,, calling for more war is also a meaningless since every side has its own supporters.

[me]

What do you want? peace? for how long? 5 years? 10?25? because thats what will happen in Somalia unless there is a clear victor. Someone has to win and change the country before it changes him/her.

 

Reconciliations will not solve anything. Reconciliation will only buy you time. Sidii laf si xun loo kabay oo kale.

[Jacaylbaro]

ka daroo dibi dhal ,,,,,,,,,,

 

So you want more war ,,,,,,,

[me]

No I want a lasting peace on our (somali) terms. A peace that allows Somalia to develop and prosper. I don't want a shaky peace, onpopular governments and social injustice. If we need more war now to achieve that goal, then so be it. 1 civil war is enough, I don't want another civil war and instability in 30 years time.

[Baashi]

Anarchy rag baa ku liibaaney. Haddii Somali heshiiso oo waxii mood ahaa ee lakala hestay la isu celiyo oo nidaamka dawliga dib loo dhidbo awoowe rag bay sidaa guul darro u tahay.

 

Nimankeer is xiijinaya oo wada qaracanka ah oo doodoodu dhaafi weydo hebel baa sidan ah iyo heblaa hebel xigta awoowe bal haday oran lahaayeen TFG-da waa diiday heshiis oo Inna Yussuf shalay buu idaacada ka kalaamay oo uu dirrinta Baashi ragga ku dirqanayo uu diiday sow doodoodu xubin la qabsado ma yeelateen!

 

Gabanka leh jeer Inna Yussuf ka tago meesha la heshiin mayo sow wiilkaasu wiil shafka isagga kaadshay oo cirkaa u kaleetiyey maa aha! Maxaa bedelay Inna Barre. Sow lama oran wallaan reerku dhaqnaaneyn jeer uu ka huleelo. Huleel wiilkaasu. Haye? Sow hawshu meel fog kama quransana. Soo nabarkaasu baxnaano uma baahna!

 

Bal eeg hadda maalinka maanta ah TFG oo kulmisa dhowr heybood waxa ay leedahay hal irid oo laga galo. Nimankeer Asmara fadhiya iyaga qudhoodu waa niman address loogu hagaaga leh. Kolka berito ay labadaa oodoodu sarifmaan oo boqol firqo oo mid waliba gaar iyadu wax u rabta ay bedelaan oo isu keenidoodu iyo urrurintoodu kaliya ay noqoto mashruuc gaara soo awoowe nabadu ma sii fogaan.

 

Nimanka Tigre-ga ah ee Benadir ummada ku leynaya car waa kaase Kismaayo ama Gedo amd Bakool arag iyagoo habar caano ka daadshay. Ma ahan in aanay karin! War Xabashku rag buu bari taar ku wadaa.

 

Adduunyo! Haddi shabakada lagala quustay qaxootigii firdhay in la fahamsiiyo war Somalidu waa dirrirtay reer reer bayna isu leysay dawlad iyo qarranka hogaankiisaana la isu laayey haatana tii uun baa taagan oo lagu heshiin waayey soo ayaan darro ma aha! Xabashku reer dhexdiisa kadirriray oo kala carooday oo giddigood gocosho iyo qoonsi ku maqan oo midba gaar u raadinayo mindidii uu walaalkii ku dooxi lahaa buu bar soo bari taaray. Waliba arrin ugub ah ma aha oo Xabashku ilaa 78 buu sida yeelayey -- nimankan waaweyn intaa bay garran waayeen.

 

Allow Alle. Ileyn talo iskuma kaa sheegto.

 

Caku ciyaal! Allow kuu naxariiso Inna Tima Cadde sooma haleelin berrigii uu yirri:

 

Gardaduub haddii loo xiraad gaarna ka ahaato,

Gacantii nin lihi goynayaa, waa gumuduntaaye,

Nin walaalkii geed ugu jiraa, geesi noqon waa!!.

 

Alleylehe waxan marqaati ka ahay in xaakimkaasu asiibay. Awoowe ka fulay hadaan waayey wiil ila qaad qaada oo dooda xubinta ay leedahay gran kara. Jamaaco waa inoo berrito haddii Ilaahay idmo. Cuqdada iyo niicdana iska daaya fadlan.

[Xoogsade]

^ Well, you keep harping on about men who benefitted from somali violence and hold properties belonging to other somalis. You fail to mention The men and their militia are the same ones you want to buy time and opportunity so they can keep holding on to their ill-gotten gains, they are part and parcel of the people you skillfully defend on a daily basis, and their organization is called TFG led by A/Y for whom you were yahooing for his victory on SOL. Let us try honesty for a change. Anarchy was brought by the TFG to a recovering country and communities. Besides, we own four homes in Xamar as a family, we occupy non with my parents and my uncle's family kicked out of their homes in a broad day light. The occupiers were our neighbours, we know them, we knew them for years. With that said, We are happy to pay rent and live in peace in another section of the town, at the same time, we are not willing to live in indignity and claim our property matters before Somalia's freedom and sovereingity. First thing first, Somalia's freedom, Honest leadership, then justice, our homes can wait, they are there, we will get them back when the time is right. It doesn't matter to us what town and what clan have a pact with the Ethiopians.

 

A/Y and his warlords have proven once more to be the least qualified men to bring peace, they in fact have damaged our psyche beyond repair and sold us in a wholesale fashion, both country and people, the sooner they depart, the better for all of us. There is no single positive step these men took for which they will be remembered. They will not be missed. Excusing their stay and survival is nothing more than wanton clanism and hypocrisy.

 

Another fact which never gets mentioned is that Muqdisho and its residents moved towards clan reconcialiation on their own before the ICU even came into the scene. It wasn't on grand scale but a hopeful sign and a step in teh right direction. The town experienced an influx of people coming back from across somali regions and clans. Some of Siyad Barre's clansmen got back their property back through clan negotiations. I also spoke with my ex-neighbour who is of Cade Muse's clan when he moved back to Muqdisho before the courts. He and his family chose Muqdisho over Bosaso for convinience. He opened business but had to leave Muqdisho with the Arrival of the TFG. Somalis have every potential to agree on peace and reconcile. They needed and still need the removal of Warlords who made their career standing between Somali clans. The ICU demonstrated how peace can be achieved, remove and exile the warlords, the same approach is necessary now more than ever, remove A/Y and his TFG filth from our faces, an absolute war on Ethiopain troops as well, short of that is living in an endless state of misery.

[xiinfaniin]

Originally posted by Xoogsade:

 

People who call for negotiations with the TFG are

either dishonest to the core knowing the fact that peace is impossible with no honest partner, or they are in deep despair to the point of losing their mental well being, in which case, their views are meaningless

.

Cajaa'ib sheekhow. Xoogga war new ah nig dheh adeer. I am in neither of those false categories you classed! And I called reconciliation. I think it's the way to go. Look Xoogga, on the grounds of civility and as an article of creed please forgo this pathetic line of impeaching the character of your cyber opponents. It does not work. Classing people just does not work. If truth were to be boldly told, desperate are those in the Diaspora who think more wars waged by people back home who have no capacity is the way to get stability in Somalia!

 

Now based on the argument you’ve thus far mustered and put together, yours is a game of sitting out in the feeble hope that this entity would expire in one year. My question has been very simple for those with similar strategies. Would you change your mind about having reconciliation if, in your case, the three men you named are removed from the political scene? Even if the political conditions that brought them to power remains intact---as it’s more likely to remain unscathed by mere removal of warlord actors?

 

If you are angry to the extent that you cant write in a rational way, please stay away from these boards. Haddii kale waa la isku danbaabaa.

 

Ethiopia is there because you are down. You are down because you are divided. There reason you are divided is not because few warlords sat you each other and went on to benefit from the anarchy that ensued. Rather it’s because since our center fell Somalis have never been truly reconciled politically or otherwise. (edit) Case in point: while you are gallantly putting a great and impressive resistance in the Bakara market (the center of your own capital) against Ethiopian troops, your enemy’s military logistics is coming through your harbors and airports. Those very people, who allow Ethiopian weaponry and logistics to pass through their regional jurisdiction, intercept and prevent whatever meager military supplies resistance in Xamar might have gotten. And that’s a fact brother.

 

edit:

Xattaa anta yaa Me?

[Gabbal]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

^^lol@the crime.

 

Dont be lazy Horn, address the q; what happens if this entity lasts beyond 09?

Simple answer Xiin, it will not! See the mandate of the TFG is not decided by few crooks somewhere in Somalia but by the legitimacy and international recognition bestowed on it by those who fill their coffers, i.e international community!

 

No one has to tell you that, to the rest of the world, Somalia can go to hell for all it is worth. No major capital on earth gives a fig about the state of Somalia and this is primarily why the mandate of the TFG will not continue simply because it will not be feasible for it to continue. Terrorism has long evaporated from the tables of the major international policy-makers, at least in so far as the Somali state is concerned, and with it went whatever attention Somalia could have mustered from the halls of the EU or the corridors of Washington. In fact, I would go so far as to say those countries attribute the rise of the ICU as a liability that entangled them in a land they had completely forgotten and would view the ending of the TFG mandate as a chance to free themselves from the burden once more. All signs and the lesson of their conduct with the TFG pre-ICU all point to this direction Xiin-oow!

 

Xaaladu adeer cid ay ka indha tirantahay ayaana jirin, adigu iyo waxa kula siyaasad ahne indhaha fura!

 

You say you are for dialogue and reconciliation yet you forget to consider whether the state of affairs of the Somali state, or what is left of it, is conducive for reconciliation. Adeer, with all due respect, reconciliation is realistically viable when there is a cessation of hostilities and all parts are in a mutual state of acceptance of the conditions to sit down and talk. In layman's terms, when there is not a single gunfire anywhere in Somalia and a child of Mogadishu is just as secure as a child of Boosaaso's! Otherwise adeer, Somalis will continue to be honor-bound to resist and to approach a man in the heat of battle with talks of reconciliation is as incredulous and laughable as it sounds.

 

How can you champion reconciliation when Ethiopian bombardment in certain areas of Somalia is taking place at this instance? The whole notion is preposterous Xiin-oow! It will always be a mystery why you and Baashi have continuously failed to comprehend this crux underscored in the contention between you two individuals in one hand and Che and Isseh on the other hand. Somalia is not in a state where talk of reconciliation is even relevant let alone realistically viable. Lest you had forgotten Xiin, the war is still going on! Sure it may not be as wide-spread as Baashi continuously evokes but it is more intense with deadlier consequence as a result of Ethiopia's 11th o'clock arm flexing. What you then advocate is akin to enjoying the cake you have not baked Xiin-oow!

 

To be fair to you, the ideals enshrined in your posts are respectable and even venerable. Somalia has suffered and its people have taken the brunt of that tragedy. From Kismaayo to Muqdisho to Gaalkacyo to Hargeisa, injustice has been committed and needs to be undone in a state of spiritual, moral, as well as physical forgiveness and repentance. Nothing is more worthier than being a champion of that argument, yet we cannot be so naive as to expect all Somalis to be in a state where they can mutually accept reconciliation. No, before that comes conditions and this is the Achilles heel of your argument Xiin!

[Xoogsade]

Xiin, People impeach themselves on these boards with their contributions. I don't twist their arms to make them represent themselves in a certain way. And quite frankly, no one is holier than anybody else on these boards, we are all subject to scrutiny and judgement. Perhaps we should privately advise people we care about on the best course they should take instead of stamping their wrong ideas for approval, and then blame others who oppose their views. Misunderstandings do occur and sometimes people get labelled unjustly, nonetheless, I didn't say anything about anyone that is not based on their stance. Anyone who is regular here has a record and people can quote them by some unearthing of the board.

 

My suggestion would be to categorize people into "unassailables" and give them exclusive section and "averages open for criticism", from there on, I can steer clear of the "unassailable" members and keep responding to the "averages".

 

 

As for what my position would be if the three mentioned warlords are removed, I would support negotiations with whoever remains provided there is an immidiate Xabashi troop withdrawal from our soil. The key is the Xabashi departure, it doesn't matter how they came into our country and who brought them, they need to leave for Somalia to stabilize. With their presence and continous support for a party in the protection of their own interests, nothing gets solved in Somalia. It may not be feasible for the weak somalis to eject Ethiopian troops by force, but I support their weak attempts and won't spend time criticizing them for their efforts.

 

I am not in the least bit angry but passionate about issues. I am cool with your judgement from your premise that I write in the throes of anger and hence produce irrational thoughts. I am rational enough to know for a fact that the TFG members and their supporters view Ethiopian troop presence as serving their interests, so reconciliation with their opposites who view Ethiopian toops as a threat is not possible. Removing the source of devision is the first priority. You need efforts made to accomodate people to sit together. How we get there can be negotiated in good faith starting with the elimination of A/Y and his buddies holding Somalis and their peace Hostage.

[xiinfaniin]

Horn---a reasonable man indeed when he wants to be one! you attacked the message itself, and not the messenger and that itself is a great progress saaxiib!

 

Paragon’s point, which you so eloquently succeeded to put some meat on, is the easiest to address and I shall do so in the earliest opportunity.

 

Your bet on the tfg framework expiring come 2009 is yours to lose. I however would like to assume given the unexpected consequence of removing Courts from their control of Xamar that it would be imperative for the powers be in their calculation to extend the lease for this entity absence of any other appealing alternatives to meet their security concerns. At the minimum this entity gives them the legal cover to do whatever they want in the failed state that’s Somalia. But that’s peripheral to the larger discussion we are having here.

 

As I said I will (IA) address this Somalia not being conducive for reconciliation argument (In the sense that I believe if one is for dialogue one shouldn’t pin his/her on the hope of whether this entity expires or not).

 

G’ night Jamaacah!

 

edit:

Xoogga, i got it.

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

 

I appreciate what this gentleman and the research-based institute he leads stand for. I also appreciate the fact he is still carrying the torch passed to him by the late C/qaadir Yaxye, his mentor.

 

The only grassroots organization deeply involved in peaceful resolutions of mostly clan conflicts, from Gedo to Mudug to Jubbooyinka to Baay to Hiiraan. We need more of them at the ground in Soomaalya.

 

I thought the institute's ideals fit mostly with what this thread and its posts advocate.

[Xoogsade]

^xiin You chose willful gullibility for whatever reason saxib, or it appears that way. You were at one point for slash and cut method but changed over time concurrent with events on the ground, which is fine. People change positions and entertain new ideas hoping for change and better results, but reverting back to the same old failed policies(sitting with the same tfg) is not being hopeful. There are times I feel guilty about my stance considering what people in Muqdisho are going through, at the same time, my feelings of guilt are tapered by the fact that their status won't change as long as the powers that be are around, it is a lose lose situation for them, so they might as well fight it out till relief comes to them. Their struggle produced some changes already although not much. Ethiopia failed to secure her status as unquestionable victor, their pawns begging for the peace they buried, and with the right pressure applied, good things can come about. Sometimes the solution is a war despite the odds. Edited.

[Fabregas]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

^^

^^That's a start though. Adeer Yey and his warlord goverment are part of the conflict. They have followers, international and regional support! If one is serious in resolving somali conflict through reconciliation, one must be practical in the way he or she formulates his/her argument.

 

You know it takes two to tango. In other words, when you reconcile/negotiate with someone they must be willing to do the same with you. I think this is the part you and Baashi haven't thought long about. You assume that everybody wants to negotiate, reconcile and liquidate some of their held power. For example, with regards to Yeey and his supporters, they are intent on using their international support and Ethiopian backing to attempt to destroy and humilate their opponents. Five years ago, one his hardcore supporters told one of my relatives that they would CIA and others to subdue Wadaads and destroy their powers as their place was only in the Masjid. These are type of people you are dealing with. How can you reconcile with a person who doesn't want to? Ina Yeey has always made his choice the gun. This is the same man that stood in the false parliament and declared that he would wage war against all religous men, take their wealth and remove them from very insitution in Somalia. Of course his supporters will blindly follow what he screams. The condition of this man is that anyone who wants to negotiate with him must recognize him, lay down their weapons and approach him smaller man than him. Who's going to meet those demands.

 

 

There are also the other warlords who compromise the anti terror or fighting Islam alliance, I tell you those men only understand the gun and the likes of those will only be subdued throught that process. What is there to compromise with them? AH, you can sell 50 wadaads only this year? You can only set up 5000 chechpoints or rape less women? Those men are xawayaan saxiib and they will be treated and subdued like the xawayaan they are, if they don't repent and stop the harm they are doing. Several of them including the warlord/false mayor of Muqdisho wants to talk with his rivals after they inflicted many losses on his men. Thus reconciliation and negotiation has to be sincere. It will be useless if the same old warlords are returned to power and are allowed to do as they please. Thousands of Somalis can't be wasted over 2 years fighting against warlords and Ethiopia only for the same people to be returned to power under the slogan of reconcialition. Somalis have had dozens of peace meetings and reconcialition with no avail. That is because the same bunch of criminals have been appeased each time under the guise of them representing their clans.Most people aren't against reconciliation as such, but they are against appeasing Ethiopians and warlords through the backdoor via reconcialition slogans. This is perhaps what our good friend Baashi reads as "advocating for more violence" and " killing maato". Although one could say Nur Cade is perhaps making more of a sincere effort to negotiate, unlike the other men who compromise the T.F.G......

[Jacaylbaro]

Originally posted by me:

No I want a lasting peace on our (somali) terms. A peace that allows Somalia to develop and prosper. I don't want a shaky peace, onpopular governments and social injustice. If we need more war now to achieve that goal, then so be it. 1 civil war is enough, I don't want another civil war and instability in 30 years time.

Yaad odhan lahayd ha adkaato markaa ,, yaadse odhan lahayd ha laga adkaado ??

[AYOUB]

Originally posted by Baashi:

What has Inna Yussuf got to do with Kismayo? He is not from there and he doesn’t belong there. So are Morgan and Af Gudud. The reason they are involved in the matter is because we are still in conflict. Naturally they are siding with their fellow clan members who happen to call Juba area their home.

In other words they're only defending the likes of you. If that not making excuses for the warlords, I don't know what is. It's blatantly clear to everyone that the Yey militiamen (lead by Afguduud) that invaded LasAnod in 04 are the same militiamen that accompanied Ethios all the way to Kismaayo last year. These militiamen are in Baidoa because ...? In Mogadishu because ..? Some things are common knowledge even to people who do not follow these events closely. The excuses you give for Yey's involvement is disingenuous and undermines your position even further. If you really believe what your saying, then things are worse than I thought. Yey has been warmongering for decades and still does. The catastrophe in Mogadishu is fruit of the Zenawi-masterminded "reconciliation process" in Kenya. Last years' grand "elders conference" in occupied Xamar was yet another complete failure. What makes you think doing the same insincere "reconciliation" thingi will give you a different results this time round?

 

 

Originally posted by Baashi:

Ask my fellow hommie BOB and he will tell you that residents who populated there prior the conflict are indeed natives. [/QB]

Classic line. (That's the reason I asked that question, Mr Hornafrique.) We have Muslims...then we have "Double Muslims" (Kashafas). We have natives...then we have "Double Natives" (Baashis). Apologies to all Richard Pryor fans out there. I won't elaborate on the "Double Muslims" for obvious reasons. The "Double Natives" are clannish individuals who claim to be "natives" of certain town as because of ancestral reasons while claiming other towns because they lived there before the "civil war". When the likes of Baashi are displaced to Qardho, they're automatically "natives" because of clannish nature of Puntland order of things. In Kismaayo he is a "natives" because he lived there "prior the conflict". Beware of Double Native! When a Baajuni is displaced from Kismaayo to Qardho, he is an IDP. Mhhhhh....

 

 

Che

You're being silenced because Baashi can't use their so-called "reconciliation" (read surrendering) sales pitch on you. They can't use their simplistic and lousy "you're only against reconciliation because your clan is afraid of giving up ....". Filinka fahan. The likes of him don't want to address the reasons given against the fallacies of the calls for reconciliation while Yey and other stooges are warmongering. If that was not enough, he admits that he UNDERSTANDS TFG cheerleaders' reasons for supporting the massacres in Mugadishu - even though the likes of Qaybdiid are at the centre of it. Since there are no clannish accusation they can think of to throw at you, he is now reduced to trying to silence or ridicule you. All in the name of ..."reconciliation".