AU Road Map for Peace in Somalia

[Fabregas]

quote:since you prioritized their (occupation forces) utter and immediate withdrawal as paramount to the initiation of any reconciliation conference.

 

 

The reason why I prioritized their withdrawl or at least partial disengagement from Somalia is simply because their presence in Somalia is/will provoke all out war. Secondly, whilst they are in Somalia certain Somali faction aren't allowed(American politics) to discuss, meet and attempt to negotiate with each other. If there are talks in Somalia what good would it do if Hassan Turki and Aweys are not invited? Of course that is assuming they would want to negotiate and talk in the first place, nevertheless, the T.F.G doesn't want to be seen or is even allowed by their backers to meet these individuals. The way to remove the obstacle you pointed out is for both sides to compormise and for opposition groups to accept a gradual process of Ethiopian withdrawl and thus not firing shots against the T.F.G. In return the T.F.G must be obliged to accept that the once this situtation arises there is no need for foreign protectors. That process is not going to happen by ordinary Somalis reconciling. It lies in the hands of the commanders, Sheikhs,warlords, clan elders and generals on the ground. And we haven't even taken into consideration whether or not ppl like Ceyrow will still continue to wage war against the "murtads" even if Tigrays pack home and go back to their homes.

 

 

But that situation is far from likely to arise given that the international community( America) is egging the Ethiopians on not to leave Somalia and stay longer to root out " terrorists". So even if Ethiopia leaves, the Americans will still be heavily monitoring Somalia very closely. Note that I am not saying what I would like to happen in Somalia, rather what is most likely to happen when one analyses the various different actors ( they seem unlikely to sort out their differences under a qhudac tree). To use Xiin's words they seem unlikely to, " to negotiate and ultimately reconcile our differences", no matter what desires/wishes we internet experts have.

[General Duke]

The AU should be commended. They ahve given the Somali's a great deal of support. One day soon Somalia will play a key role in the affairs of the AU.

[AYOUB]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

Kismayo (as painful as its current experience is) is a minor issue in comparison to the big picture that’s failed Somalia. Criminal gangs that hold it do so not because they hate certain groups but because that’s the only way they came to know during civil war years to survive. The reconciliation we are talking about here would have far greater impact on Somalia as a whole not only on Kismayo. If it succeeds it would do away Ethiopian presence in the south, it would bring your region into the fold, and it would create an environment where individual clans would not find necessary to organize their own militia to defend their perceived clannish interest!

Buzzwords and promises but no substance. Bread today, jam tomorrow. Remember the rhetoric when warlords in Kenya chose Yey way back in 2004? You must, coz you made your euphoric SOL debut hours after Yey's crowning. After even more killings and destruction, we're back to square one. Calls for more "reconciliation". In the mean time, Yey declared war on every wadaad-run institutions out there. I know it's cool to be for "reconciliation" rather than "conflict". "Unity" rather than "division". "Marriage" rather than "divorce". What "reconciliation" "unity" "marriage"?

 

As for Kismaayo, you seem to have misunderstood me. What I wanted to know is; what will you (and the likes of Baashi and Hornafrique) offer the marginalised natives of that city if they do turn up at the "negotiation dirrin" ? This needs to be more than turning back the clock to 1991. The injustices of pre '91 need correcting too, you know. Those without AK47 or websites can't swept under the dirrin . If the supposed future federal government gives your sub-clan exclusive power in Puntland, what do the natives of Kismaayo and its surrounds get? What are you and the rest of the settlers prepared to offer? Please show your generosity in the name "reconciliation", Kismaayo is your favourite subject after all.

[xiinfaniin]

Originally posted by AYOUB:

Remember the rhetoric when warlords in Kenya chose Yey way back in 2004? You must, coz you made your euphoric SOL debut hours after Yey's crowning.

That's a cheap dig yaa Ayoub! Please do one thing for SOL audience! Produce one supporting evidence of Xiin being supportive, much less euphoric, about Yey’s selection. Just one will do. And that’s a challenge.

 

Now as for Kismayo conflict, I don’t exactly understand what you are asking. The chief offer any reconciliation would come up would be security and political stability based on some measure of justice. And in that regard, Kismayo would benefit just like the other cities would. How else could those without military muscle and clannish militias in the south get what’s rightfully theirs if not through reconciliation and negotiated settlements? Tell us yaa Ayoubi? What objections do you have against such an approach? What are you proposing alternatively adeer? Are you still entertaining to maintain whatever token of stability your region presently has on the basis of being within the sphere of influence of Zenawi’s political/military universe?

 

Why would you object even a compromised deal in the south if you are content or tolerant in the current arrangement in the North brother?

 

This is the contention here.

 

1- To defeat Ethiopia, Somalis must unite.

2- To unite Somalis must settle their disputes and reconcile.

 

 

With the level of political segmentation and divisions that exist amongst Somalis today, Ethiopia stands to win.

[Baashi]

Ayoub, come on board buddy. Reconcilliation is good for Somalis. It is the way forward. It is one thing to ponder over how to accomplish this monumental task - the task of ending the conflict. Opposing the reconcilliation process outright is totally different thing altogether. Take a position I can wrap my arms around.

 

I'm for it. It won't be easy. Personaly I don't know how exactly the process should play out. All I know is going forward reconcilliation is "the" best option Somalis have.

 

Buzz word? No. It is a word alright but more than that it is a process that have the potential of saving Somalia from itself.

 

As to kismayo, awoowe Kismayo is a microcasm of Somalia. I know you are not fan of certain segment of Somalis. But I suspect that you would support justice. Justice for residents (whatever clan they may belong to), biz owners, merchants, minorities such as Bajun, and so on. Justice starts with property rights address that and you will have touched all greivances.

 

Xoogsade, actually it is the other way around. More like damn if you don't do it! You know it awoowe. Short of quick and decisive victory there is no other option left on the table.

 

Remember reconcilliation is a process -- not an event. There would be naysayers that would appeal to small fringes of hardcore clanists. There will be Kelligii Muslims the likes of Kashafa who will insist on complete victory a la zero sum game -- in order for some to win, certain ones have to lose kind of mentality.

 

Awoowe walligaa nabada lama diido. "Walaal aan wada hadalno" waa phrase nin raggi aannu hadal ka soo celin. Hadaad wax diidan tahay iyo hadaad arrin qoonsato dee kalaam oo adaan dirrinta ka kicin waxaad tiraahdaa midkaa ima maro.

[Faarax-Brawn]

1-strengthening the fractured nation's political process through reconciliation,

2- greater international involvement in peacekeeping operations,

3-creating a safe environment for humanitarian aid deliveries,

4- building the capacity of federal government institutions to face the immense challenges ahead. [/b]

 

Question: With the crisis in Kenya,Is Somalia now in the back banner again?

[xiinfaniin]

What do you think yaa FB?

[Faarax-Brawn]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

What do you think yaa FB?

Xiin,War waa kusidee? Adigaan ku weydiye,whats with the boomerang question adeer? Why are you messing with my pyschology while am interested in your analogy

 

Anyway,i think of course,as it is now,I would answe myself and say yes. Somalia will fall back to the back banners until Kenya's mess is fixed first. Sad

[AYOUB]

Baashi

Reconciliation as a concept is a noble thing. But, there is a difference between Gen. Ariel Sharon's calls for "reconciliation" and F W de Klerk's. Not that i'm suggesting there's similarities between you and either of those gents. You're more like the "peace-maker settler" while the hawk is killing the "natives" Lecturing others while Col. Yey is behaving like Gen. Sharon is what I can't never understand. Charity begins at home brother. Nothing to do with not being a specific fan of any group.

 

As for Kismaayo I thought you might be able to give some pointers how the reconciliation could resolve the Zimbabwe-like "settlers v natives" situation down there...that's all.

 

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

That's a cheap dig yaa Ayoub! Please do one thing for SOL audience! Produce one supporting evidence of Xiin being supportive, much less euphoric, about Yey’s selection. Just one will do. And that’s a challenge.

Audience did you say? What a showman! Adeer I can't be bothered to dig up a 4-year old gudaafad. Be my guest did them up and show your "audience" what kind of debut you made that eventful October of 2004.

[xiinfaniin]

^^

 

I though you were good at Gudaafad digging! But you dodged! And that's ok with me!

 

 

Baashaa Kismaayo kaa dherginayya ee iska sug yaa Ayyoubi!

[Baashi]

Ayoub,

 

You haven't given me enough material to chew on

 

What has Inna Yussuf got to do with Kismayo? He is not from there and he doesn’t belong there. So are Morgan and Af Gudud. The reason they are involved in the matter is because we are still in conflict. Naturally they are siding with their fellow clan members who happen to call Juba area their home.

 

Ask my fellow hommie BOB and he will tell you that residents who populated there prior the conflict are indeed natives. Zimbabwe-like issue you have envisioned from a distance is a biased opinion motivated by your dislike of certain segments of Somalis.

 

When it comes to Juba the province my folks are minority. In Kismayo they form the majority (or they used to be) and certainly own almost all properties within city limits (real estate, shipping industry, warehouses, hotels, cinemas, etc) -- in each category they dominate.

 

Today ****** who make up the junk of marauding militia who happen to live in government premises (public schools, looted factories, military garrisons, and properties owned by Bajunis, Somali-Persian and Somali-Arab merchants -- Jacfar and Badr progeny are refugees in Yemen) rule what used to be a thriving cosmopolitan (nomadic standards).

 

This is an injustice. In marfishes and fadhi-ku-dirrir premises when one subclan are routed by another the event makes a memorable sound bite and gives one side bragging rights. But still that doesn’t change the fact it is barbaric act that needs to be settled and reversed.

 

I figured if property issue is settled peacefully and justly -- the natives (unless you are rooting for particular natives) will win big time and thugs and those who support the business they're in will lose. The challenge is how to get them in the dirrin -- that’s the million dollar question I don’t have an answer for!

 

Now since you agree the process is a noble one why don’t you come on board. Or are you afraid that “defeated lot” the folks whose demise (clan cleansing at the hands of USC militia) you cheered for along my good friend Oodweyne will benefit if justice is served?

 

[ January 30, 2008, 10:54 PM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

[Kashafa]

When it comes to Juba the province

my folks are minority

. In Kismayo they form the

majority

(or they used to be) and certainly own almost all properties within city limits (real estate, shipping industry, warehouses, hotels, cinemas, etc) -- in each category they dominate

Today

******

who make up the

junk of marauding militia

who happen to live in government premises (public schools, looted factories, military garrisons, and properties owned by Bajunis, Somali-Persian and Somali-Arab merchants

Or are you afraid that “

defeated lot

” the

folks

whose demise (clan cleansing at the hands of USC militia) you cheered for along my good friend Oodweyne will benefit if justice is served

This is why you and your likes represent the past, a dying breed of (to borrow your favourite word) dhoocilo that can only think in tribal terms, who try to raise the fortunes of their Tol-ka at the expense of deen iyo dhaqan, at the expense of principles and values. I feel sad for you, abti. Actually, it's more like contempt mixed with pity(Is there a word for that ?). Because you have the benefit of a education, yet you choose to frame every issue into 'anaka vs ayaga' and "anaka aa iska leh vs ayaga aa iska leh". The poor illiterate reer Badiye serving in any clan militia, giving his life for the Tol idol, does not have that benefit. And inshallah, Ilaahay will forgive him because of that jahal.

 

One question: Kismaayo, yaa ku seeyay ? You're claiming to be a 'native', right ? And everybody else is a 'junk of maruading milita', right ? Well, Horn and Allamagan think the exact same thing. Just like you, they claim to be the majority, and hence, they own Kismayo. Anytime I hear somebody saying they own a city(or lay claim to it), I break out laughing, the sheer doqonimo it takes to utter such a subjective conjecture-ridden statement, is comical on its own right.

 

Lemme break it down for you nice and easy: Kismayo, Ummada Soomaliyeed iyo Soomalida Xalaasha(everyday hard-working shacab), aa iska leh. No stinkin' f'ing clan can lay claim to Kismayo, or any other Somali city ownership. "Anaka aa iska leh" is the mentality what destroyed Somalia and turned it into a byword for total anarchy. Funny enough that you should quote Aideed and the USC......because you sound exactly like him. Ever seen him giving a speech on tape ? Man's got a Shaytanic fervour, a manic gleam in his eyes as he says: " Anaka aa iska leh, Waana ka tiro badan-nahay, waana ka awood badan-nahay".

 

Here lies the problem in investing yourself in your Tol's wins and losses: You'll get depressed real quick. Your 'native' clan militia suffered and is suffering defeats in all military fronts. Af-Gaduud was chased from Kismayo with the then-record time of 2 hours .(he was then honoured in Garoowe for 'gallantry in combat', sweet irony ). The new record for fastest 'tactical retreat' was set in Lascaanood after the 'native' clan milita withdrew after only 40 minutes of combat. And it goes without saying that the Muqaamwama members are wiping the ground clean with the 'native' clan militia in Mogadisho.

 

Now, if you're Xiin, this won't bother you. You won't loose sleep over it. Cuz Xiin's political outlook(although confused at times) is based on principles of Somalinimo and Islaminimo, ie, what is good for Somalia, what is good for Islam. His Tol can go jump off a cliff and commit en masse suicide, and he won't blink a eye.

 

But if you're Baashi, the first to line up for the defense of 'poor miskeen ailing old man' Yey in every thread, your tribal ego will take a serious hit. Instead of focusing on the gravest crisis in the history of Ummada Soomaliyeed, the Ethiopian invasion and occupation, you will find yourself in atack dog mode trained to maul anybody who mentions Old Fart Yusuf in less than honorific terms. You will find yourself harping on peripheral, secondary issues like "Kismaayo anaka aa iska leh" "Laas Canood anaka aa iska leh" "Let's give Inna Yusuf a chance"."Let's work with the Xabashis...for peace and stability" And you will find yourself in league with the invading enemy by virtue of shameless rationlisation.

 

Therein lies the problem, abti. Sincere advice: Join us, the Pan-Somali, Pan-Islamic Party. We may have serious differences(negotiation vs resistance), but we will always be working for the good of the country, not that of our Tol. Every inch of Somalia is my castle and my domain and any man that tells me otherwise will be given the five-finger salute. That was the reality under ICU-led Somalia where tribal 'spheres of influence' were torn down and that is the reality we are bringing to light by qoriga caaradheesa, as opposed to your clan-ridden fowr-bointi-fife TFG where every post is appointed to a specific clan.

 

We, who you call Kellegi Muslim, represent the soul of Somalia, the future. You represent the dying past.

 

End of sermon. Thaalika thikraa li thaakireen.

 

[ January 30, 2008, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

[Centurion]

How shameful to descend to crude qabiil name-calling.

A good example of how one can mouth 'reconciliation', yet still maintain bitter qabiilist sentiments. Hardly something new, certainly not something an enlighted individual can harbour.

[Che -Guevara]

LoooooooooL@Kashafa...that was an excellent smackdown.

 

Kashafa...One question though, I thought Somalinimo represented another form of tribalism to you or did I read you wrong.

[xiinfaniin]

^^That's classic Che...always excelling in the arts of kala firayn !

 

Jamaacah, this is not as bad as good Kashafa dramatically presented !

 

Kashafa , maca kullu ixtiraam wa taqdiir, you lack aadaabu khilaaf !

 

Baashi's piece when read in the context of this thread was quite comprehensive. This is the bit you conveniently skipped.

 

This is an injustice. In marfishes and fadhi-ku-dirrir premises when one subclan are routed by another the event makes a memorable sound bite and gives one side bragging rights. But still that doesn’t change the fact it is barbaric act that needs to be settled and reversed.

......

I figured if property issue is settled peacefully and justly -- the natives (unless you are rooting for particular natives) will win big time and thugs and those who support the business they're in will lose. The challenge is how to get them in the dirrin -- that’s the million dollar question I don’t have an answer for!

Those dont sound words of the tribalist bigot you depicted right there in your post. Admittedly ***** is an offensive term, and the old man slipped there---- gangs would have sufficed.

 

Still though Baashi's point stands unscathed. Reconciliation, the man insists, is the only way out of this mess! I find it funny that Kashafa of all people would enjoy attacking the character of a man he does not know instead of addressing the larger point Baashi has been driving on these boards!

 

[ January 30, 2008, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]