A Road Map to Land Disputes in Somalia:

[Qudhac]

Waryaadhaheen, miyaynaan isku meel ka hadlayn, the incident took place in the Somali Region of Ethiopia and I do apologise the inaccuracy in my earlier post which indicated that the land dispute orginated from Hargeisa. That been said,

it is clear your whole argument is based on ku-tiri-kuteen, hearsay and chines whispers, this why you hobbing from one argument to another unrelarelated one.

 

atleast if you want to be taken seriously do some basic research.

 

 

why are you all guys blinded the reality on the ground?,

 

erm would that be hargeisa, or ethopia since we blind to your set "realities" would you enlightened us as you it read from whardheernews.

 

 

what made Silanyo, Waraabe and other to cross the border if that is not the glorification of your clannish dogma while there were more urgent issues that needed their attention at the time in Hargeisa and its environs ?,

 

so now the issues is not about hargeisa its "clan wars" but why silaanyo and faysal went to ethopia, and since when has been a crime to settle disputes by leaders wether in ethopia or anywhere else for that matter.

 

 

and why are you guys always zealots who are in a denial mode as that will lead you to the paradise.

 

 

do you see why likes of you have no credibility and we dont listen to sorry azzed mud slingers like yourself, all you have proven is that whole reason you constructed your fallacy of reality was to have a pop at somalilanders.

 

 

But just for the record you can take your "reality spine it fourfold and burry it where the sun dont shine.

[RedSea]

Assalamu calaykum,

 

Waamaxay qayladan iyo caydan meesha duulaysa?!

 

Waar nin walba oo idinka mid ah, wuu sheegtay wuxuu odhan lahaa, markaa waxaan big deal ahayn maxaad isigu xiijinaysaan?

 

Mansa Munsa, saaxib,hadii ay jiraan iyo hadii kaleba, wuxu maaha wax saa usii wayn oo hada la odhan karo waa in laga tashadaa ASAP.Waxyaabo badan ayaa kahoreeya.

 

Teeda kale(addresing u,since u started the topic).Waxaa jirta, markii dagaalku kadhacay tuuladaa, in ay ku koobnayn oo kaliya dadka meesha yimid Faisal C.Waraabe iyo Silanyo toona ee ay laakinse ay jireen dad badan oo cuqaal leh oo kanaxay arinta oo kayimid Sool ilaa Bariga shishe si ay u xaliyaan dhibta kadhacday labada beelood ee walaalaha ah. Markaa waa Ilaah mahadii, wax layidhaahdo 'why' bay udhacday maaha runtii.

 

Markaa wax maaha maanta laga soo qaado oo lala shir yimaado dad ayaa meel isku haysto, anigu marnaba ma jirto wax accusations oo aan ku leeyey taas ayaa kadanbaysay waxaad usoo dhajisay cinwankan laakin maaha wax macno wayn kufadhiyah cinwaanka isaga ah oo farta ku fiiqi karo runtii hada.

 

that is all,,

 

Assalamu calaykum.

[Taleexi]

Originally posted by Suldaanka:

quote:

why are you all guys blinded the reality on the ground?,

What have you in mind sxb? Do tell us the reality that you see on the ground and then we will discuss about it. What are your views?

 

 

ps

The article you posted here is far from the reality on the ground. The author can mislead an unsuspecting eye but to those who hail from that area and know better, this article represents nothing but cheap propaganda spewed by someone who wants to paint an ugly picture of Hargeisa.

 

 

what made Silanyo, Waraabe and other to cross the border if that is not the glorification of your clannish dogma while there were more urgent issues that needed their attention at the time in Hargeisa and its environs ?

What other issues awoowe? we need names, examples, events ... not just a non-specific term like "other issues"... of course there are always "other issues" but what "other issues" specifically?

 

As leaders, Mudane Ahmed Mohamed Siilaanyo and Faisal Ali Waraabe and other SL officials have responsibility on their shouldiers to step in, in such situations. I see nothing wrong, unless you tell us what you think is wrong with that.

 

Come back and be specific and more to the point.

Let me first say that I do not think that many of you who are shouting from the top of your heads have probably read the Editorial. First in my opinion the editorial unfairly paints a positive picture on Somaliland. As the title suggests it is talking about how others can learn from Somaliland's experience as far as land disputes are concerned, particularly how Somaliland addresses legislatively the issue of land tenure. It also addresses some of the issues and shortcomings concerned. For example it says and I quote:

 

"So far, in " Somaliland," the main problem of land dispute cases originates essentially from the incapacity of competent local institutions to intervene and the weakness of the courts to effectively exercise their authorities properly and expeditiously. The difficulty at present - aside from a legitimized and generally accepted legal system - is the need of some process to begin to sort out rival claims to land and resources. It is therefore of paramount significance and urgency to set up a Land Dispute commission to establish principles upon which local land disputes should be settled, but surely the problems have to be dealt with at the local level, which calls for some grass-roots procedures and mechanisms to be put in place."

 

The article goes on and discusses some viable mechanisms that could be used to address the issues of land disputes. It further talks about a law that the so called Golaha Wakiilada passed, but unfortunately not implemented but according to the editorial would have laid down the necessary administrative provisions and modalities to be followed to ensure proper registration of land property by local government authorities. The article concludes by saying this: "The " Somaliland" land dispute and how it is tackling to regulate land tenure through legislation offers some valuable lessons to all regions".

 

So let me suggest to these clannish zealots from that region to read and read thoroughly the piece before they even open their filthy spitting mouth.

 

In my opinion the Editorial Board of Wardheernews were too generous to Somaliland. I personally do not think that they have that much to offer to the rest of Somalia apart from the highly contagious clannish hatred that they have been spreading to the rest of us.

 

As to those who are asking for specifics, namely (Suldaanka & Qudhac), let me give you one example that was briefly mentioned also in the same article. Remember last year (December 2005) the incident between Reer Yoonis of the Jibriil Abokor and Reer Samatar dispute on a plot of land. (By the way both of these clans are predominantly from the Somali Region as many other clans in the North West). In that incident on that faithful day of 23rd December, 2005 some members of the parties involved unfortunately lost their lives. Have you forgotten the standoff in the Hargeysa Hospital as a result of that incident? Ma ilowday iyana wixii xumaa ee the so called Vice president said about that dispute and the subsequent conflict. He basically characterized according to Somaliland.org the parties involved (Jibriil Abokor and Reer Samatar) in that dispute as anti Somaliland clique of foreigners doonayay in ay bililiqaystaan dhakhtarka. Xusuus daranaa wiilku ma ummul baa?. As far as Oodweyne and Suldaanka are concerned all I can say is that you guys can continue to live in your own mirage.

 

Red Sea our difference is within the threshold of tolerance.

[Qudhac]

Let me first say that I do not think that many of you who are shouting from the top of your heads have probably read the Editorial. First in my opinion the editorial

unfairly paints a positive picture on Somaliland

so i presume you would have been satisfied if the editorial was just lasbasting JSL.

 

 

my dear friend its very hard to reason with someone who clearly has very limited knowledge of land and farms disputes in Somaliland and specificly its capital.

 

but all i can say to you is whiles there are incidents of tribal involved incident in most somali cities, but what is a a fallacy and has no base is your claim that the land disputes which hargeisa has become notorious for has any thing to do with tribal affialation.

 

these cases which you can hear on everyday in local and high courts are purely based individuall gain and it is the product of booming housing sector, it is not hard to understand that when there is so much money changing hands in a certain industry people will always flog to it to make money, and by fair or foul means they have a crack.

 

but its not in cities where you see this new phenomenan you will see it in countryside.

 

the authorities where setting up farms identity cards which had universal markers.. using Sats..

 

http://www.nacgeo.com/nacsite/press/Universal%20Address%20System%20Is%20Adopted%20in%20Somaliland.asp

[Suldaanka]

Remember last year (December 2005) the incident between Reer Yoonis of the Jibriil Abokor and Reer Samatar dispute on a plot of land.

You couldn't be further from the truth my dear friend.

 

The particular incident was never between the subclans that you mentioned. Those subclans who make up the same clan (Sa'ad Musa) have no land disputes whatsoever. However, a number of indivitual members from those said subclan might have unrelated disputes over farms or plots of land.

 

The incident happened like this:

 

1. Two men had an argument over the ownership of a stretch of farmland located just north of the city. One of the men was a member of the Somaliland police force, the other was a civilian. The police man was the same subclan (rer Samatar) as the former minister of interior...

2. After a breif heated argument and verbal exchange man who was member of the police force shoots the civlian man... the man dies on the spot

3. Hargeisa Police immiately takes the matter into its hands and detains the culprit while taking the body of the deceased man to Hargeisa General Hospital for examination

4. The family of the deceased man demands the immidiate execution of the police man who remained in the custody of the police.

5. The police refuses the request citing that the culprit since he was a police man will be dealt with by the police and will face justice according to police procedures and rules.

6. The rumour goes out that the Interior minister is behind the police stance of the issue and the deceased man's brothers and cousins start throwing stones at police at the Hospital...

 

 

Anyways that is how the story happened. There was no land dispute between clans or subclans... there was no subclans fighting over land or throwing stones... if there was any it was just the family against the police and not against another clan.

 

One of those unfortunate unrelated incidents that happen once in a while.

[Xaruuri]

My dearest Mansa Musa

 

You reminded me an incident that I was trying very hard to forget. I do recall that incident which was very much covered then in most of the cyber media that cover the region. To tell you the truth I was very much offended by what the little shortsighted rascal said about the parties involved in the conflict.

 

I read the editorial peace of Wardheernews and was very much impressed with the depth of their research. You see this is an area that I have some experience with and probably as the objective of the article is to simply point out how people can benefit from the experience of a similar community. That is something that is a fact of life in today’s world and scholars write books about these issues. The irony is, however, that these Bush men from Togdheer can not comprehend that simple fact. To them everything is black and white. Probably they are content to listening to Ina Ali Waraabe’s thrash talk which fills them with false pride and makes them feel larger than life. They have no capacity to comprehend such a piece of scholarship. What they like most is “Yo Yo tan” which is probably what they do best. Whether Hargeysa was shown in a not so good picture or not is frankly not the issue here.

 

Unlike you, though I do believe that a lot can be learned from Somaliland’s experience in the area of land tenure as the piece suggests or in many other areas of experience that deal with conflict resolution. It is true that conflicts usually start between individuals, but has always the potential to transform into a wholesale clan conflict. That is not something unique to Somaliland, but is the case in all Somali societies. That is the culture of our people whether we like it or not. If these Bush Men from Togdheer want to deny that, they can be guest. They don’t have to look far, for all they need is to look at their own backyard. As those of you from the north probably know, Togdheer has more of these conflicts than any other place in Somaliland.

 

The gist of the article identifies the main problem as the week institutions of the Government of Somaliland and proposes plausible remedies which are grounded on Somali customs, traditions and modern law or code. It is a superb piece that highlights the experience of Somaliland. I very much doubt if these Bushmen who are critiquing the article understood the magnitude of the issue that the piece is addressing. It is a classic piece on conflict resolution. If they can not appreciate an article like this, they can go ahead and enjoy reading the multitude of Pravda like sites that are available in the internet. Oodweyne is probably familiar with Qarannews which a friend of mine once said even puts xiddigta Oktoobar to shame.

 

Salaam to you all.

 

Xaruuri

[NASSIR]

Wlc to Somaliaonline, Xaruuri

[Xaruuri]

Thanks Caamir. I take it that you are one of the regulars here. I have read some of your postings and I believe you are a measured fella. Khayrul Umuuri Awsaduhaa. Extremism is always a terrible thing.

 

Xaruuri

[Waaheen]

Gentelmen:

I am new to this forum. But I must say this posting was great and I the material that has started this discussion. This posting was free from politics; however, the discussion turned to that passion of the Somali’s of today. Imagine if the discussion stayed on the topic of how land tenure issues could be resolved. Probably something worthwhile could have come out of it.

 

Waaheen

[Xudeedi]

Xariiri-I read the editorial peace of Wardheernews and was very much impressed with the depth of their research. You see this is an area that I have some experience with and probably as the objective of the article is to simply point out how people can benefit from the experience of a similar community. That is something that is a fact of life in today’s world and scholars write books about these issues. The irony is, however, that these Bush men from Togdheer can not comprehend that simple fact. To them everything is black and white. Probably they are content to listening to Ina Ali Waraabe’s thrash talk which fills them with false pride and makes them feel larger than life. They have no capacity to comprehend such a piece of scholarship. What they like most is “Yo Yo tan” which is probably what they do best. Whether Hargeysa was shown in a not so good picture or not is frankly not the issue here.

Very educational piece, many thanks to Mansa Musa for posting it.

 

Smile @ "Yo Yo tan"

[Waaheen]

Mr. Maakhir:

I agree with you and Mr. Xariiri, that the editorial was indeed a good piece. As stated in the article the question of land disputes is much more complex in the South than in the North. Right after the collapse of Siyad’s government most of the inhabitants of Mogadishu who were not from the indigenous clans of Hamar and the surrounding regions were forced to abandon their properties including their homes, farms and other valuable possessions. These properties are until today occupied illegally or worse appropriated by the former USC supporters. The restoration of these properties to their rightful owners will contribute in a very substantial way to the overall reconciliation of the Somali communities and therefore must be a priority for the current rulers of Mogadishu and those who are interested in that process to conclusion.

 

Waaheen

[AYOUB]

Originally posted by Xaruuri:

You see this is an area that I have some experience with and probably as the objective of the article is to simply point out how people can benefit from the experience of a similar community ..[/QB]

What experience exactly? Please enlighten us..

 

PS Welcome to you and Waaheen.