Muslim rulers and Our Stance!

[Salafi_Online]

Innalhamdulillah....

 

Truth Seeker did u actually read the whole article

 

as for your question:

The question then needs to be asked why have the Muslims foresaken their deen?

We have many problems but what you need to continually ask Why? Why? Why? only then will you come to the true root of the problem rather than the symptoms. It is this root that needs solving.

Response:

he (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said: " The nations will soon gather up and call upon each other to gather up against you just as the diners call upon each other to the dining plate."

 

 

The Messenger of Allaah (sallAllaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said: " Certainly not, in fact, you would be numerous, but you would be like the foam of the ocean. And certainly Allaah would remove the fear of you from the hearts of your enemies, and He would certainly cast weakness into your hearts ."

 

Someone asked: 'What is this weakness?' He (sallAllaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) replied: "Love for the worldly life and hatred for death."

 

Truth Seeker didnt the Messenger of Allah(saas) give us a valid explanation?

[sahal]

Viking, Bro. you're absouletly right, we did'nt want to create here SUfi/Salafis battelfield rather we were expecting the so called Salafis satance of the Musdlim corrupted rulers.

 

the question itself was originally wrong MUSLIM RULERS AND OUR STANCE , which means their verdict not the ISLAMIC verdict since he said OUR STANCE and not ISLAMIC STANCE, VERDICT ETC, but we waited patiently to see what this person will say

 

we fed up the mosques on graves legends.

 

This Copy & Paste articles from so-called salafiyah website is nothing but confusion.

 

Salafi on Line answer the question that you asked to yourself.

 

YOUR STANCE of Muslim corrupted rulers espicially FAHAD and MUBARAK and no more Copy & Paste.

[Truth Seeker]

Yes but where does this love of the worldly life come from, people are not born and then suddenly become materialistic. Rather they are bought up in an environment that influences them.

 

Hence we know that the child is born on the pure fitrah yet will follow the fitrah of his parents - becuase he is influenced by his environment.

 

One hadith does not explain everything, you have to look at the whole context and all that is related to it.

 

e.g. there is a hadith that says half the deen is cleanliness and half is marriage - so somebody could just do these two things and say they have complete deen.

 

I am not saying the article is wrong but rather it does not go deep enough. Islam is not a mystic religion it is very much based on reality and in this reality we know people are influenced by society.

 

The Capitalist society's that we live in promote the satisfaction of the sensual desires and one form of this is materialism (love of this life) so of course i agree with the hadith and you can see with a bit more in depth look you can find the real problem.

 

Love of this life is very much a symptom of a kufr society that at its root problem is Capitalism.

 

People do not naturally become materialistic rather society encourages this instinct overly.

 

It goes back to asking yourself why? why is something happening? why are people starving? is it because they have no imaan, because they have love for the world - no its because the government is not providing for them.

 

Hence we can always go back to the root of the problem - the absence of Islam as a system. This issue of establish the state in you heart and then you will get a state, contradicts reality because you have to work towards it.

 

The Prophet (saw) physically worked to establish the state and yes was only aboy to establish it when Allah (swt) gave the victory.

 

This is our duty today work towards the state and have belief in Allah (swt) that he (swt) will grant us the victory.

[Salafi_Online]

Innalhamdulillah...

 

Truth Seeker each time I read your post, i tend to get confused....YOur one confusing fellow my friend....

 

Let me explain few things to you....

 

Allah said:"Who has created death and life, that He may test you which of you is best in deed. And He is the All-Mighty, the Oft-Forgiving;"(67:2)

 

"Do people think that they will be left alone because they say: "We believe," and will not be tested".(29:2)

 

"And We indeed tested those who were before them. And Allâh will certainly make (it) known (the truth of) those who are true, and will certainly make (it) known (the falsehood of) those who are liars, (although Allâh knows all that before putting them to test)".(29:3)

 

From just these two Ayats, its evident that Life is a test....YOur not going to say I believe and then be provided with a confortable life and enter Jannah...Rather Allah will test you with Wealth...Society...your family...your rulers...etc....all as a means of testing the believers.....

 

Thus the people have been test with Wealth...and According to the prophet They people fell in Love with the World....and Allah placed weakness in their hearts

 

There is this beautiful Kutbah(speech) by the Prophet(saas) about loving this world....and the consequences of loving this world....but its too long to type it....in summary he(saas)" Do not excessively build a life that Allah has decided is bound to be in destruction, and do not recline to it or like it. Verly Allah has ordained on you that you should avoid its dangers. Otherwise you will expose yourselves to his anger and justifiably earn his punishment.

 

"Whatever of good reaches you, is from Allâh, but whatever of evil befalls you, is from yourself."(4:79)

 

And akhee ONly Allah can change the condition of the people...but allah has put a condition on the people...

 

He said" Allah does not change the condition of the people until they change what is in themselves"

 

thus if you want an islamic state....and all that other stuff....this can only be done when you change within.mmeaning learn your deen and implement it in all your affairs...then Allah will provide you with what you require..ie islamic state!

 

unfortunetely we dont see this change...

[Truth Seeker]

"Allah does not change the condition of the people until they change what is in themselves"

 

Reference please, because i believe this ayat mentions the word kaum in it and this means nation (therefore an incorrect translation). Furthermore there is no further detail from this ayat as to what to change, therfore we do not look at this ayat in isolation rather in relation to everything that also relates to this subject.

 

Hence we see the Prophet (saw) establish a state - the condition he changed was public opinion becuase the majority of the citizens of the state at the time were Jews and Idol worshippers. Therefore when we use this it is clear that Allah (swt) states that the condition is public opinion.

 

As to that you dont understand my posts, simple question, does society influence a way a person behaves?

 

Claerly it does therefore you need to change society to influence people, this is achieved through the ruling system. This is what the prophet (saw) did and is our duty today.

 

Sheikh ul Islam Ibn Taymiah states in his book Siyastul Sharia:

 

"There is no tawheed nor obedience except when there is an imam"

[Salafi_Online]

Innalhamdulillah

 

As to that you dont understand my posts, simple question, does society influence a way a person behaves?

Akhee let say the Society is evil, does this mean its ok to Sin….For Example if one lives in a kafir land…and everyone is aware that the kufar land is constructed on Shirk and kufr, does this mean the muslims who dwell there, ought to commit kufr and shirk. We all possess the capacity to distinguish the Haram from the Halal, hence you will be held accountable for your actions no matter what society u live in….The Islamic State was established at the time of the rightly guided Khalifah…however this did not prevent people from going astray….In the end they lost the Khalifaship.

 

 

“Allâh will not change the good condition of a people as long as they do not change their state of goodness themselves (by committing sins and by being ungrateful and disobedient to Allâh)(13:11)

 

Sheikh ul Islam Ibn Taymiah states in his book Siyastul Sharia:

 

"There is no tawheed nor obedience except when there is an imam"

What do you mean? Obedience to Who??? What do you mean by this???

 

if there is no tawheed then there can only be shirk!So without an imam everyone is a kafir, since there is no tawheed without an imam?!?

 

do you know what the Shaykh Means???

 

Akhee Like i said earlier i tend to not understand what you get at :confused: ...you’ve constructed false principals for yourself, which is neither nourished by the Kitab nor Sunnah, but rather based on mere Self interpretations.

 

I close with these gorgeous words by Our beloved Brother, NUR.

 

 

Truth Seeker

 

"I dont have to tell them, Allah SWT did in Quran:

 

" Wa maa asaabakum min musiibatin fi bimaa kasabat aydiikum, wa yacfuu can kathiir"

 

" Any calamity, disaster, attack etc befell on you, is what you have rightfully earned due to your actions, or the lack of, yet Allah has forgiven you for the most part"

 

Also Allah SWT says :" Allah does not change the (bad condition) of a people, unless they change that (which earned them) in themselves"

 

Brother, change begins from within.

But alhamdulillah....

I believe Shaykh Albani ‘s Article was self explanatory…I can now move to the next topic

[Salafi_Online]

Innalhamdulillah...

 

 

http://www.troid.org/articles/hadeeth/explanationofhadeeth/obligationofobeying.pdf

 

And certainly We shall test you with something of fear, hunger, loss of wealth, lives and fruit. But give glad tidings to those who have sabr (patience); those who, when afflicted with a calamity, say: Indeed to Allaah we belong, and to Him we shall return. They are those for whom are the salawaat (blessings and forgiveness) from their Lord, and His Mercy, and it is they who are the guided ones.” [sooratul-Baqarah 2:155]

 

“And We shall test you by way of evil and good, and to Us you will return.” [sooratul-Anbiyaa‘ 21:35]

 

And We tested them with good blessing and evil calamities, in order that they may return to the obedience of Allaah.” [sooratul-A’raaf 7:168]

 

The Prophet (saw) has commanded of patience toward tyranny of the Rulers and abandoning of fighting against them and revolting against them, that this is of the most beneficial and rectifying of affairs in both this life and the one to come, that whoever opposes deliberately, or due to an error, then no rectification is attained by his actions, rather more corruption. Ibn Taymiyah (Manhaj As Sunnah)

 

Imam al Barbahaaree (d. 329H) said, "Whoever rebels against a Muslim ruler is one of the Khawaarij, has caused dissent within the Muslims, has contradicted the narrations and has died the death of the days of ignorance." (Sharhus-Sunnah [p.42])

 

Imaam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal (d.241H) – rahimahullaah – said: “Verily I supplicate for the ruler, for his correctness, success and support – night and day – and I see this as being obligatory upon me.’’ Refer to as-Sunnah (no. 14) of Aboo Bakr al-Khallaal.

 

It is authentically reported from the Messenger of Allah Muhammad (salallaahu'alayheewasallam) in the Ahaadeeth of 'Iyaad Ibn Ghunum who said, "The Messenger of Allaah Muhammad (salallaahu'alayheewasallam) said, "Whoever desires to advise the one with authority then he should not do so openly, rather he should take him by the hand and take him into seclusion (and then advise him). And if he accepts (the advice) from him then (he has achieved his objective) and if not, then he has fulfilled that which was a duty upon him." (Reported by Ahmad (3/403) and Ibn Abee 'Aasim (2/521) with a Saheeh isnaad.)

 

When changing the evil of the rulers, then this should be done by the scholars and not openly as is mentioned by a clear Ahaadeeth of the Prophet (salallaahu'alayheewasallam), "When you wish to correct the sultan then take him by the hand in secret and advise him." [ Aqeedah at Tahawiyah ]

 

And it is also related by Ibn Sa'ad in Tabaqaatul Kubraa (7/163-165)

 

A group of Muslims came to al Hasan al Basree [/b [b]](student of the companions) (d. 110H) seeking a verdict to rebel against al Hajjaaj [3]. So they said, " O Abu Sa'eed! What do you say about fighting this oppressor who has unlawfully spilt blood and unlawfully taken wealth and did this and that ?"

So al Hasan said, " I hold that he should not be fought. If this is the punishment from Allah (Ta'aala), then you will not be able to remove it with your swords. If this is a trial from Allah (Ta'aala), then be patient until Allah's Judgement comes, and He is the best of Judges ."

 

So they left Al Hasan, disagreed with him and rebelled against al Hajjaaj - so al Hajjaaj killed them all.

 

Hajjaaj wasath Thaqafee, and is well known. Adh Dhahabee said in Siyar A'lamin Nubalaa (4/343) at the end of his biography, " We revile him and do not love him, rather we hate him for Allah (Ta'aala). He had some good deeds, but they are drowned in the ocean of his sins, and his affair is for Allah!"

 

About them al Hasan used to say, " If the people had patience, when they were being tested by their unjust ruler, it will not be long before Allah (Ta'aala) will give them a way out. However, they always rush for their swords, so they are left to their swords. By Allah! Not even for a single day did they bring about any good."

 

 

Sa’eed Ibn Jumhaan said: ‘I came to ’Abdullaah Ibn Abee Awfaa and his eyes were covered, so I greeted him. He said to me: Who are you? So I said: I am Sa’eed Ibn Jumhaan He said: So what was done with your father (muslim Ruler )? I said: The Azaariqah (followers of Naafi’ Ibnul-Azraq al-Khaarijee) killed him . He said: May Allaah curse the Azaariqah! May Allaah curse the Azaariqah! The Messenger of Allaah has informed us that they are the ‘dogs of the Hellfire.’ He said: So I said: The Azaariqah alone, or all of the Khawaarij? He said: Yes, all of the Khawaarij. He said: So I said: Verily the ruler is oppressing the people and affecting them . He said: So give him your hand, and connect your hand to his firmly. Then he said: “Woe to you O Ibn Jumhaan! Stick to the Suwaadul-A’dtham, stick to the Suwaadul-A’dtham ! If the ruler will listen to you, then go to his house and inform him of what you know. So he may accept from you, but if not, then leave him ; since you do not know more than him.’’’ This incident was reported by Ahmad (4/3272-372), it was authenticated by Shaykh al-Albaanee in Dhilaalul-Jannah (no. 508).

 

 

Hudhaifah (ra) reports that the Messenger of Allaah (saw) said " There will come leaders who will not follow my guidance and will not follow my sunnah. There will be amongst them men who will have the hearts of devil and bodies of humans. "

 

He (Hudhaifah asked) "What shall I do, o Messenger of Allaah if I reach that?" He replied, " you should hear and obey the ruler even if he flogs your backs and takes your wealth, then still hear and obey ." Reported by Muslim (Eng. trans Vol 3/1029/34554)

 

Shaykh Abdul Azeez Ibn Baaz , (hafidhahullaah) was asked, "Is it from the Manhaj (methodology) of the Salaf to criticise the Rulers from the mimbar (the pulpit)? And what is the Manhaj of the Salaf with respect to advising the Rulers? "He responded: "It is not from the Manhaj of the Salaf to publicise the faults of the Rulers and to mention such things from the pulpit because that leads to confusion/disorder and the absence of hearing and obeying the ruler in what is good. It also results in (the people) becoming engrossed (with these matters, arguing and debating) which causes harm and produces no benefit.

 

Walilahmd....Salamu alaykum

[Truth Seeker]

"Allah does not change the condition of the people until they change what is in themselves"

 

Clearly I will have to address on point at a time. The above quote is an incorrect translation, when you read the arabic it clearly mentions the kaum (nation). This by itself does not denote what change is required rather it is ambiguos and you need other evidences to specify it. Hence the seerah is used and we can see what is required for change is public opinion.

[Qac Qaac]

Guys stop arguing about the religion when both of u are students of the Deen.

 

and don't fallow the sheikhs like a sport team that u love. so be careful. fallwo the prophet scw.

[Salafi_Online]

Innalhamdulillah...

 

Truth seeker....i think you mean Qawm not Kaum

 

I looked up this word...and Qawm means People....As the Messengers of Allah use to say to their people...Ya qawmi....ya Qawmi....

I looked up the Arabic/english dictionary and People is stranslated as Qawm, and Nas as Mankind, and Ummah as Nation.

 

this is from the Oxford English/arabic dictionary

 

and my Quran is stranslated by by Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din Al-Hilali & Muhammad Muhsin Khan

 

Same brother who stranslated Sahih Bukhari& Sahih Muslim, both of them were former directors of the University of AlMadinah, KSA

 

So Stop with your Hizbu Tahreer Shubuhat(doubts)

 

QacQac Man your name is soooooooo funny..loooooooool

 

Akhee...who do the Scholars follow..if not the Prophet?

 

'Abdullah b. 'Amr b. al-'As reported:

 

Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Verily, Allah does not take away knowledge by snatching it from the people but he takes away knowledge by taking away the scholars, so that when He leaves no learned person, people turn to ignorant ones as their leaders; then they are asked to deliver religious verdicts and they deliver them without knowledge, they go astray, and lead others astray.(Sahih Muslim Book 034, Number 6462)

 

YOu must worship Allah with Ilm(knowledge) not with Ignorance...

Thus knowledge of the Deen lies with the Scholars....So we love them...we clinch to them...and we shun the ignorant ones who wish to lead others astray!

 

Knowledge is a Weapon

 

Wa salamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa baarakatu

[Truth Seeker]

Jazakallah Khair for the correction. Can you answer the remaining points on how you extrapolated this ayat to a meaning without referring to other evidences that explain it. Especially in light of the seerah where the "change" was public opinion for the state to be established.

[Salafi_Online]

Innalhamdalillah...

 

Part Three: Kingship

 

Messenger (saas)said : 'Prophethood will be amongst you for as long as Allaah wills, then Allaah will raise it up when He wills, then there will be Khilafah upon the way of Prophethood, then Allaah will raise it up when He wills, then there will be kingship, then oppressive kingship, then Khilafah upon the way of Prophethood'(muslim)

 

the decree of Allah will take effect...and What Allah wills....None can prevent it....Thus Allah's messenger(saas) fortold the coming of Kings...and no matter what Anyone does or says...they can not change the decree of Allah jala wa cala....He says:

 

"Say (O Muhammad SAW): "O Allâh! Possessor of the kingdom, You give the kingdom to whom You will, and You take the kingdom from whom You will" 3:26

 

 

Mu'aweeeyah® was A Sultan aka King..and he passed the position to his son...Yazid inherited this position from his father.and Wu'awiyah was the companion of the Messenger of Allah(saas). But we do not see the people of haawa(desires) speaking ill of Mu'awiyah! and why not?

 

So We the Muslims who follow the Quran and sunnah according to the Salaf Us Salih...we remain patient and firm upon acquiring Ilm, we repel oppression with taqwa...and quench injustice with Sabr.and we Hear and we Obey those in authority over us..Until Allah's decree comes to pass...

 

"O you who believe! Obey Allâh and obey the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority." (4:59)

 

However we see those who oppose us in our methodology...they cry from the tip of their tongue that We need Khalifah we want this and we want that...Kingship is Haram....

 

So we ask them....We have received what Allah decreed for this Ummah....We have kingship now....what shall we do? is this not the will of Allah? Can the Sword, Pen or Tongue remove that which Allah has decreed? They can not answer!

 

So we say to them, we wait for the Khilafah in the way of the Prophethood and we work to bring it about again through learning the deen and implementing it in our lives.... With regard to his (saas) saying 'Khilafah upon the way of the Prophethood', it is clear that the criterion for the successful establishment of the Khilafah is that it must adhere to the way of the Prophethood. This point is of prime importance, especially if we want Allaah to grant us this supreme victory. Further, upon analysis, a number of points are evident

 

1.Those who will restore the rightly guided Khilafah are the Salafees, since they are the ones who carry upon the Prophetic Way.

 

2.The Khilafah which will come about will not be in the way of the Abbasids, the Umayads, nor the Uthmaanis; rather it is certain that it will be upon the way of the Rightly Guided Khulafa

 

Thus, the men who will bring about the return of this Khilafah will be upon the way of the Rightly Guided Khaleefahs and the way of the Companions(salaf) of Allaah's Messenger (saas).

[Truth Seeker]

So are you waiting or working for it or both?

[Salafi_Online]

Surely All praises belongs to Allah!

 

as for king fahd!

 

"O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority." (4:59)

 

if he is oppressive and steals my wealth and beats my back, i heard and obey the ruler! Even if he is an abasynians slave!(hadiths)

 

as for the Khalifah,

 

Messenger (saas)said : 'Prophethood will be amongst you for as long as Allaah wills, then Allaah will raise it up when He wills, then there will be Khilafah upon the way of Prophethood, then Allaah will raise it up when He wills, then there will be kingship, then oppressive kingship, then Khilafah upon the way of Prophethood'(muslim)

 

the Khalifah will not come until Allah's decree comes to pass! we must go through kingship first, then oppressive kingship, then Allah's decrees we will come, and khalifah will be established! so we wait patiently for the decree of Allah! The sword, the pen, the tongue will not and can not remove the decree of Allah, whether it's fard alkifayah or fard Ayn, its not important,NO one can delay or fast forward the decree of Allah!

 

for more info on the khalifah read the above posts!

 

Sahal i refuse to answer any of your question, because they are initiated by anger and hate! You dont ask question for the sake of acquring ilm, instead for the sake of debating and challenging! there is no benefit in that so i withdraw from answering any of your inquieries!

 

PS. there is a tape by the scholars, entitled:

 

takfir and our stance to the Saudi Government,

 

sahal im not a scholar, by allah im not even a student of knowledge, i only post what the scholar have said! if you are really interested in this, listen to what they have to say about their stance against the saudi Government! you may order the tape from

 

[http://www.troid.org/store/cds/lectures.htm

 

may cost you $5-10 canadian

[sahal]

Why don't you just COPY & PASTE us what your group said about the Saudi government as you always do in other issues?