Bardheere and GEDO clan make up anyone?

[Jacpher]

^What’s with the hate man? You do realize we have come a long way. We’ve carried out the “first punishment” to settle two hostile clans. Our leader brought medical equipment to the needy hospital. We’ve successfully completed a seminar to train women on breastfeeding and offered rewards for completing the seminar. What more could we have done? Morgan would have never brought such success to Kismaayo populace. We could have accomplished more had it not been Yeey and the Courts of attacking us. Our nomadic geeljire fierce fighters are ready to defend the city residents at any cost. Jailing our social & political leaders abroad won't stop our geeljire to defend our freedom to rule and ownership of our forefather's land.

 

As for the ownership of Kismaayo, I'm sure you'll find a detailed history of our traditional inhabitance in Jubooyinka on Beesh Blog from 1500 - 2007. That link is found in Beesha's homepage on the world wide web.

 

Back to the topic. Please do continue to shed light on the history of Gedo region.

[xiinfaniin]

^^lol! Waryee, aayar with the sarcasm!

[Buuxo]

lol jimcaale, not to mention the buulolka aad magalad ka buuxiseen.

[rudy-Diiriye]

i see the clan specks are in wetland dreams again. dulkanee was dul soomaaliyeed... marka faraha ka qaad... or else, u & your uncle move to addis...

 

which by the way the dilif bus will be leaving for it soon.

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

Xiinfaniin, it is honestly ridiculous to inform, not even debate, about the historical facts, not camouflaged fabrications, by a boy under the product of 21 years of misinformation by a dictatorial regime and the kutiri kuteen living room 'history.' The truth is brutal, and it is especially more hurtful when it is by a third, impartial, neutral foreign group.

 

Some to this day believe that Max'ed Siyaad Barre was born in Luuq, not not some tuulo in Soomaali Galbeed; that same beenhawaas-style lie extends to his cousin and half-brother, C/raxmaan Jaamac Barre who last time in shirkii Kenya claimed to be born in Baardheere! By the way this blatant lie ku socoto, C/raxmaan Jaamac Barre might even claim to be born in Kismaayo the next time! Or perhaps Raaskambooni.

 

Xaaraantii lagu soo quudiye iyo booliqaranimadii ayee rabaan inay na marsiiyaan maalin cad. Honestly, I cannot even believe the distortion of history about Baardheere, let alone Kismaayo inta la gaarin. Tomorrow they might even be inclined to present the founders of Baardheere were not the Jameecadda.

 

Let's see if he challenges the facts again on that recent report by an impartial NGO from Scandinavian countries of Sweden and Norway.

 

Someone's English might be limited if he cannot even understand the simple word of 'visited' or cannot comprehend the easily digested words of 'fact-finding mission.'

 

Alas, information is easily available, unlike the state-sponsored where the truth and facts were routinely wrapped under the rugs. Not anymore. If it is brutal to those who were fed this misinformation and lies, that is not our problem.

 

The report clearly states in the first paragraph:

 

Background to the mission The Danish and Swedish Immigration Services carried out a joint

fact-finding

mission to the Gedo region in south-western Somalia from 15 to 30 October 1998. The mission followed on from a previous Danish and Swedish mission to the southern part of the Gedo region in the spring of 1997.

 

[sNIP]

 

The Bardera district in the south of the Gedo region was

visited

by the Danish and Swedish Immigration Services in the spring of 1997.

Then after the visit, here what they report:

 

The Bardera district is far more complicated than the other districts of the Gedo region in its clan make-up. In its note on the Gedo region, the UNPOS states that, before civil war broke out in 1990, Bardera was mainly the homeland of various [native] clans: [shaatigaduud's clan; Xaabsade's clan; Fowsiyo Max'ed Sheekh's clan; Shariif Xasan's clan, etc, are listed.]. There were also [Gabyoow's clans] in Bardera. The

Bardera district consists of over 180 villages, mainly inhabited by [native] clans

. The

[siyaad Barre's clans] traditionally, before the 1969 October revolution, formed a minority in Bardera

. At that time only one village, Serinly, in the Bardera district was inhabited by [siyaad Barre's clans].

Ooh, lalala. Truth is once again brutal. And I am out of this qabyaalad stinking thread. I didn't even started the Luuq and its documented sultanate history, which was suppressed at length by the last regime.

 

However, I will briefly quote a report commisioned by World Bank [it is a 'doc' document] and written in last year, about historical Luuq's sultanate and other sultanate's in Soomaaliya.

 

Marked by internal squabbles, the [a qabiil based in Afgooye] Sultanate had been split into two as a brother to the Suldaan established the [a qabiil that is native to Luuq's name] Sultanate in Luuq.

 

Luuq, which is located in the Southern region of Gedo, shares much of the history of the [large clan name] and the [Afgooye-based clan] Sultanate as their [Luuq-based clan] Sultanate was closely linked with the [Afgooye-based clan].

 

Today, they have formed a guurti, which they claim is like the one in Somaliland. They would like a system like that in all of Somalia. The chairman of their Guurti is Ugas Adan Manow who represents the [clan name] in Luuq.[/qutoe]

 

Even while Luuq is not fully in the hands of the natives, the leader of the 'guurti' is from the original sultanate.

About Luuq's founder:

 

One of the oldest sultanates in Somalia, founded by Aw Kalafow [Awqalafoow], popularly known as Aw Maadow (thus, his royal seat, Luug Aw Maadow), who took the royal title gereed [garaad] instead of sultan.

 

According to oral tradition, Greed Kalafow was the great grandson of Muhamed Gasaargude, the Arbiter (from gar, legal dispute, and gude, “judge”), the eponymous ancestor of the Clan whose name over time became [clan name].

 

Gereed Kalafow is said to have died c. a.h. 839 (about 1435 C.E.) and his grave is a shrine that pilgrims visit in Luug. It is also remembered as the era of the great conquest, when his sovereignty reached as far as Tiyeglow to the northeast and Buur Heybe in the south. He defended the sultanate from ...

 

[sNIP]

 

The inadequate Gereed Liibaan, who succeeded Gereed Kalafow, was overthrown by his cousin, Ali Hir. This led to a series of succession crises in the sultanate, which hindered further economic progress and political stability in the region. The sultanate suffered from a devastating civil war and lost territories gained during the reign of Greed Kalafow. Nonetheless, this dynasty founded by kalafow ruled much of the [qabiil] land from the 14th to the 19th centuries. Most of the [qabiil] gereeds were descended from the line of Gereed Kalafow. He left behind six sons - Liibaan, Hilowle, Umur, Amin, Keerow and Maadow - from whom the six subclans of the [qabiil] are descended.

More on Luuq's sultanate history and its people.

[General Duke]

I must give it to MMA, he has a more consistant argument which he stood by from the beggining. No one doubts that these two groups live in the region. However the claims of brother Horn that they make up 90% of the population seem quite laughable and without merit.

 

So far MMA has the upper hand. Keep the info coming we are learning much.

 

As for the personal issues, it only adds sauce to the dish that is SOL. But lets not get carried away.

[Som@li]

Soomaaliya Somaali baa leh, iska dhaafa waxan jaahiliyada ah! Once Somalis settles, any citizen should be able to live any place of the country.

 

Reer qurac iyo reer qansax baa halka dega waa waxa ina kharibay.

 

Dadkii siyaad Barre rari jirayna kuma ekayn reerkisa qura, Qabilooyin badan baa dhulkale la dejiyey!

[Gabbal]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

^^^If those who claim to hold the city represent your clan and its interest, one thing is certain, and that is your qabil is stronger than mine. Yours is bold and daring while mine is distinctively timorous and quite weak. Yours have thousands, as you put it, of battle-hardened fighting force while mine has noticeable meager resources. Fame never hit us, Horn--ow, because of a fierce fights we put up---ours have no genuine claim on ferocity…we are the kind that collapses under the gentle touch.

 

 

^^Intaa ku seexo caawa adeer

! I know it feels good, kind of fills up your ego with clannish pride!

Pity, ma aanan arag intaanan seexan.

[Gabbal]

Originally posted by Jimcaale:

^What’s with the hate man? You do realize we have come a long way. We’ve carried out the “first punishment” to settle two hostile clans. Our leader brought medical equipment to the needy hospital. We’ve successfully completed a seminar to train women on breastfeeding and offered rewards for completing the seminar. What more could we have done? Morgan would have never brought such success to Kismaayo populace. We could have accomplished more had it not been Yeey and the Courts of attacking us. Our nomadic geeljire fierce fighters are ready to defend the city residents at any cost. Jailing our social & political leaders abroad won't stop our geeljire to defend our freedom to rule and ownership of our forefather's land.

 

As for the ownership of Kismaayo, I'm sure you'll find a detailed history of our traditional inhabitance in Jubooyinka on Beesh Blog from 1500 - 2007. That link is found in Beesha's homepage on the world wide web.

 

Back to the topic. Please do continue to shed light on the history of Gedo region.

Alore Jimcaalena ma fogeyn, why does that not surprise me.

[Gabbal]

Originally posted by The Duke:

I must give it to MMA, he has a more consistant argument which he stood by from the beggining. No one doubts that these two groups live in the region. However the claims of brother Horn that they make up 90% of the population seem quite laughable and without merit.

 

So far MMA has the upper hand. Keep the info coming we are learning much.

 

As for the personal issues, it only adds sauce to the dish that is SOL. But lets not get carried away.

How ridiculous. Heedhe berigaad Xiin kula dagaali jirtay Kismaayo topics ileen nabad jacayl maahayne reerka waxaad ka uruinaysay kalsooni for adeero's administration dheh. Haatane maadaama ay dhacday kala jabin dee caadi un yaad seeftaadi qarsoonayd ula soo baxday.

 

Meesha waxba laguma hayo sxb. The man is fathoming over a second person account with holes the size of the ozone layer.

 

The overwhelming majority of the sources are from Mandeera. Infact the translators, guides, etc are all from Mandeera which is where they probably, in their Western ignorance of the delicate tribal balances of the Somalis, thought they might be able to find impartial, objective sources. The positions of the men they used sufficed enough to trust them but alas a Somali will never shrug off that which continues to plague our people!

 

For example, the Bardere information is gleaned form a souce called Cabdullahi Sheikh Mohammed of the of the UNOPS National Professional Project Personnel, Mandera who says, among other things;

 

Abdullahi Sheikh Mohamed, of the UNOPS/SRP, regarded that seizure of power as the culmination of a long-term strategy by the President at the time, Siad Barre, with the Gedo region having been established back in 1974 in order to create a regional base for the ******* clans.

Before we even establish why Gedo was created (which was the same reason Awdal, Sool, Galgaduud, etc were created which was for better administrative purposes), it is important to note that it was this man (the same one talking like this) that arranged everything for them including being the source of Miskiin's famous "Bardera was settled by [add specific sub-clans of Bay no one would know]...":

 

The United Nations Office for Project Services (UNOPS)/Somali Rehabilitation Programme (SRP) and the UNDP, Somalia, provided the mission with logistical support during its stay in Gedo. They arranged the delegation's flights and other transport in the Gedo region and helped fix up its meetings with de facto authorities in Gedo.

In its note on the Gedo region, the UNPOS states that

, before civil war broke out in 1990, Bardera was mainly the homeland of various [native] clans: [shaatigaduud's clan; Xaabsade's clan; Fowsiyo Max'ed Sheekh's clan; Shariif Xasan's clan, etc, are listed.].

Written by the same tribally motivated Abdullahi whom, because of his position as head of UNPOS Mandeera, the unaware Westerners did not suspect.

 

It is ridiculous for me to continue to argue about a compromised piece of research when there are maps and direct historical accounts dating from over centuries ago (one would think the mythical sultanates of Luuq and such would have once been recorded).

 

Again, sxb this is not an issue worthy of debate, I will leave you with this map from 1911:

 

 

Intaas ku raaga kuna noolaada!

[Gabbal]

Duke, you insult Gedo's economy yet even at its worst era one source, Kenneth Menkhaus, who is the author of Somalia's report in the UNDP Human Index (the one that measures development) said this:

 

Some of the trade with neighbouring Ethiopia and Kenya takes the form of recorded trade via official crossing-points at Belet Hawa and El Waq on the border with Kenya and at Dolo on the border with Ethiopia. Considerable unofficial trade is also engaged in across the borders with both Kenya and Ethiopia. Extensive small trading goes on in all towns and villages as well.

 

Kenneth Menkhaus, Assistant Professor at Davidson College/UNDOS consultant, considered the Gedo region's economy to be in reasonably good shape and described trade in the region as "booming". Traders in Gedo made more profit than, for instance, those in Hargeisa, in north-western Somalia (Somaliland). He pointed out that the Gedo region was a centre for brisk trading between Somalia and Kenya or Ethiopia. Large quantities of goods were brought from Mogadishu to Bardera by lorry. Bardera, being the largest town in the Gedo region, formed the centre of that trade, with active flows of funds both from abroad and to and from Mogadishu.

 

Kenneth Menkhaus explained that the vast bulk of the capital built up in Bardera was channelled back to Mogadishu in order to bring in further goods from Mogadishu (and Merka). He regarded this as a clear sign of economic health, since the money remained in Somalia, while also pointing to his own surprise how little capital there actually was in the Gedo region. Virtually all capital had left the area, with the lack of capital plain to see, not least in Luuq. Kenneth Menkhaus reported people in Luuq to be poor, with hardly any money in circulation. He made it clear that the group of business people in possession of any sizeable trading capital was very small. He also regarded the Small Loan Fund (SLF) scheme run by the Somalia Rehabilitation Project (SRP) as very important for Gedo's economy. The vast majority of imported goods in Gedo come from Mogadishu, making the state of the roads and the security of Gedo's neighbouring regions vitally important if trade is to continue.

 

While in Luuq, the delegation visited a transhipment centre for imported goods from Mogadishu. The centre contained a number of trucks from Mogadishu, from which goods were transferred to what were referred to as "******* trucks". These then took goods on to destinations in Gedo. Luuq District Council reported that it had begun taxing trade in the area. Goods from Mogadishu and livestock transactions were taxed, with the tax revenue being used for purposes including police pay.

Because of the instability, there was no investing in Gedo which accounted for the lack of visible capital despite the intense trading but nevertheless things have been changing and will continue to change.

[Naxar Nugaaleed]

MMA, Amreally suprised that they had Garaads in the riverine areas.

Dabshid "Soomaaliya Somaali baa leh" while waving that banner, a lot of innocent Somalis lost their land to those saying "Soomaaliya Somaali baa leh" who were engaged programs to replace those native peoples.

 

Horn, I have learned that the "SNF" has made an enemy out of the "SPM", "RRA" and southern puntlanders in jubaland. Do you think this can be sustained?

[General Duke]

Horn adeer, it seems you are protesting way to much. Gedo being one of the poorest states in Somalia is a fact thats not appealing to me at all. However you have explained that this fact is due to prolonged conflict and so on.

 

As for the new evidance you provided, well its the same as before. But do keep trying.

[Gabbal]

Originally posted by Naxar Nugaaleed:

MMA, Amreally suprised that they had Garaads in the riverine areas.

Dabshid "Soomaaliya Somaali baa leh" while waving that banner, a lot of innocent Somalis lost their land to those saying "Soomaaliya Somaali baa leh" who were engaged programs to replace those native peoples.

 

Horn, I have learned that the "SNF" has made an enemy out of the "SPM", "RRA" and southern puntlanders in jubaland. Do you think this can be sustained?

Intriguingly Naxar, the only important enough to document moving of people that Siad Barre had ever done concerned primarily the people that you claim, those from Sool.

 

From the farms of Sablaale to Kismaayo, refugees from the dabo-dheer drought were airlifted from Sool, Bari, and Nugaal to wealthy farming lands of Somalia.

 

Yet their products are the ones who stress today that reer Gedo were brought to that land by Siad Barre or that they have no rights to be in Kismaayo because "they came post-civil war".

 

As for SPM and RRA, both were allied to the USC in 1991 and participated in the fighting in Gedo. I will leave you with that.

[Naxar Nugaaleed]

horn, I dont know anyone from sool who claims sablaale or any other wealthy farm lands in the south. Sool is struggling with from north westerners who have pushed its borders from Karid south of burco to just caynaba which continues to this day in Ceerigabo, buhoodle and jiidale. for what ever reason, if people are taken to other parts of the country for Humanitarian reasons, i dont see anything wrong with that. for your information i never said that President Said Barre placed his clan in Gedo, I simply asked for your opinion. its no secret however, that the late president tried, from hargeisa to kismayo, to relocate his clan in other clans territories. its also no secret that Somalis of every clan having been land grabbings for ages. but thats not what i asked you. is it really in the interest of those you support to alienate all those people from rer baidaba to rer afmadow and rer kismayo?

By the way, I am thoroughly convinced that force, where the winner takes al,l is the only salution to kismayo. I see no need to argue about it here, both sides will never agree