Somalia: Is Federal Future Order Worth Defending?

[A.J. Timacadeh]

why do you have to make everything a battle of somaliland vs puntland. i mean 40 innocenent people have died and everyone in here turnsit into another somaliland puntland fight. this is why a somaliweyn wont work. because every little detail is turned into a clan fight

[RaP-FaNaTiC]

I think our Somaliland counter-parts ought to pursue a career in stand-up comedy. lol Hobyo part of Puntland? hehehehe .. jokers.

[General Duke]

I agree with Dharbaaxo jin, not everything is Somaliand Vs Puntland. This tragedy in Mudug had nothing to do with the two states. Howver as I recollect it was Angel Dust who tried to use this tragedy as apolitical point.

 

I think people need to first read what they intend to post from the net

[A.J. Timacadeh]

snw, bro it's no good fingerpointing who started it this time when you got involved in it yourself. sure angel-dust might have started it this time but you or another puntlander might/has start another time. it's childish and it's foolish to continue this puntland vs somaliland squable over every little detail.

[General Duke]

Federalism will save Somalia if rightly implemented.

 

Decentralisation of power the development of the vast empty lands that is Somalia.

Local priorities would be dealt with in a much better way than has been so far in the first republic.

Federalism would bring order and responsibility to the country, every Somali would have confidence in the country and associate with his region not fearing the Influence of the state that much. There would be competition between states and then economic dependency would ensure that a new Somali identity would emerge and then over time the regions or states would be a much more powerful symbol than the clan.

Federalism would empower the people and weaken the Secretariats, be it a president or PM, the centre of power would not necessarily be in one location or with one person.

The idea that these states would fight is absurd, look at Puntland and Somaliland with all their differences there has never been an all out war, why because the dynamics of various neighbouring clans with ancient ties would not allow any of the state leaders to start a war. In the south where you have marauding single clan entities its easy to start conflict. Look all the recent out breaks of war have been between Sub clans of the same grouping fighting each other. If there were super states like Puntland it would be hard for leaders, elders and legislators to start a war over a well or because MUSA SUDI said so.

 

How ever those who support centralism like SAMATAR and some warlords no doubt see their dream of power eroding day by day as the advent of the state system emerges. Somaliland leaders no doubt want a federal system based on a two state solution; this is not possible because the Somalia today will be no smaller than 5 states. This reality also shocks all those who believe Somalia will break up. Like Germany, India, Canada the US and a few others such as Australia have broken up.

 

 

We can’t ignore that we need a government that inspires the business ethos of the Somali people, one that defends us and stays away from over regulating business. A government that helps maintain a balance and develops the economy of the shattered state. Everybody fears change but if you don’t change you don’t evolve and then your extinct.

All Somali’s deserved and have a right to live in freedom in their own territories and given the chance all Somali’s would embrace this ideal.

[A.J. Timacadeh]

snw, i think you got that federalism idea wrong. the nations power would still be in the presidents hand. look at the us. bush still has a firm grasp on the nations policies. if this were to happen in somalia then it would creat more hatred towards the president from opposing clans and the atrrocoties would start all over again.

[BN]

SNW,

It refreshing to hear such well thought out ideas. Federalism is the future for Somalia.

 

Originally posted by DJ:

 

the nations power would still be in the presidents hand. bush still has a firm grasp on the nations policies.

Actually most of the power in the US is concentrated in House/Senate. Bush can't even go to war without the approval of Congress. He is able to carry out his parties policies because of a weak opposition, majority in both houses, a sympathetic media, etc.

 

The whole point of Federalism is to transfer power out of the Presidents/PM office to regional/local governments.

 

Since you think Federalism is the wrong route, What do you think is the answer?

[LANDER]

Samurai,

Always fishing for a debate aren’t you? Your cheap sarcasm doesn’t really help your arguments sxb. I am very well aware of the so-called federal states solution proposed in Kenya. Now, how and what type of federalism the new TNG invasions is just not clear to me. Each state or region will have autonomy, but will they answer to a national government? (i.e.USA) If there is a no central authority, then it simply isn’t federalism is it? Last I check that wasn’t answered. If you have any new info, by all means share it. Now, misleading yourself and others by stating that the “ideal” of federalism is the reason for some of Puntland’s problems is delusion my friend. I guess what your saying is that Puntland is such a perfect example of federalism, which accounts for all the lack of control that exists in some regions? That is quite humorous. I beg to differ on sophistical refutations, Mr.Sophist seems to give you a little too much credit. But what do I know? I don’t carry such a sophisticated name as he does. Well if there is some truth in what you replied, it is that I don't concern myself with the this idea of federalism. That much you guessed right. However, what you suggested in your last reply is contrary to the idea of federalism with a central authority and Puntland being ONLY a state which shares power with the authority in question. I'll leave it up to you and the rest of the supporters of federalism to mingle in these unclear suggestions of federalism.

[A.J. Timacadeh]

bari

 

bro, i think that you misunderstood me. if the nations power is in the house/senate then the power is still centralised but this time not to a pres/pm but to a group. this wouldnt really work in somalia. you remember the national assemblies of the 1960's. everyone was always saying they were rather biased. i was not around then but what i read about was mostly not positive. i am not saying that federlasim cant work but i know that the somali's would not accept anything that includes federalism unless their clan is in power.

[A.J. Timacaddeh]

federalism is rubbish Somaliland is the bomb

[FAISAL_YARE]

"A/ALEYKUM"

waa salaaman tahay dhamaantiin aqaayaareey waxa ma idiin sheega somalia waa wadamada yar yar ee aduunyada oo dhan common wadaaga"

waxaa ka mid ah luqada iyo diinta iyo culture and dhalashada ama (,,..,, jansiyada,,..,,)!!!

but is the only our defference is different directions with oppioniated afcourse we must have defferences of opion that's nothing wrong with that focus , in this world does have defference but thy dont have the differnce that we do today

 

j: federalizm is what is make defference or in good way and it's what is the best solution"

that we can achieve and remmember also can bring all our opions and defference to the logiclly and live side by side work by side by side bring the country is the way used be or may be batter than that focus if we take the really dimocracy""

and we really meant this takes thise gold oppurtunities we must stop reveges and we must foucus forward somaalaay isku tanaasulaat let's forget past and let's think of how we safe our next generation so let's that step this is gone be that last resource and last oppurtunities"

 

may allah_ bring peace and luve if we act and follow the direction and wright things for our people and our sweet_ land"

 

The Federal is the wright way of new SyStem"

"NeW_ SoMaLi~GoveRment"

insha~`~allah"

GoD" bless" great~``~~SoMaLiA"

(``somalia~4_ever~~}

====================== :cool:

 

 

Gediid – do you realise you just committed an act of treason in the eyes of many by simply saying those words, and gallows shall become your ultimate destination after a mercilessly swift, yet brief deliberation in many digs and households. My Oh My.

 

On another note, tell me Gediid aside the natural neighbourly rivalry between the two camps; did you have a chance to absorb the nucleus of the piece? If so, what were you able to derive from it? Where do you stand so far as the argument which sits the centre of piece?

[NinBrown]

LOL t those who think southern mudug is part of Puntland. This just proves their ignorance about issues which they argue about everyday. This is what the puntland adminstration are doing about this conflict.

 

Baaq loo jeediyay beelaha ku dagaalamaya Koonfurta Mudug iyo Dhawaac dagaalka oo Gaalkacyo la keenay

- Thursday, July 10, 2003 at 11:43

 

Garoowe, (AllPuntland)- Madaxwayne xigaha dawlad goboleedka Puntland Maxmed Cabdi Xaashi oo ay weheliyaan golaha wasiirada ee dawlad goboleedka Puntland ayaa maanta ayagoo ku sugan magaalada Garoowe ee caasimadda Puntland waxay baaq nabadeed u direen beelaha ku dagaalamaya dhinaca koonfur bari ee magaalada Gaalkacyo.

 

 

Waxaa madaxwayne xigaha iyo wasiiraduba ay ka codsadeen in beelaha dagaalamaya ay xabadda dhigaan oo ay bad baadiyaan dadkooda uu saameeyay dagaalku.

 

Sidoo kale waxay madaxda Puntland ee dalka iyo dibadda joogta ka codsadeen maamulka gobolka Mudug in dadkaasi dagaalamaya gar gaar bini aadamino loo fidiyo, ayagoo gaar ahaan codsaday hay'add Bisha cas ee goboka Mudug inay gar gaarka deg degga ah la gaarto dhaawaca la keenayo magaalada Gaalkacyo

 

Dad gaaraya 20 qof oo ku soo dhaawacmay dagaaladii shalay iyo doraato ka soconayay deegaanka Afbarwaaqo ayaa haatan lagu dawaynayaa isbitaalka wayn ee magaalada Gaalkacyo

 

Tiro dad ah oo ka badan 45 qof ayaa ku dhimatay 100 ku dhawaadna waa ku dhaawacmeen labadii maalmood ee ugu dambeeyay dagaal ku dhexmaray jifooyin ka tirsan beelaha Dir iyo Habar-gidir deegaanada ku dhaw Afbarwaaqo oo ku beegan Koonfurta Bari ee Gaalkacyo, dagaal lala xiriirinayo inuu ka dhashay aano qabiil iyo deegaan kala riixasho.

 

Cabdulqaadir C. Cusmaan (Farayaamo)

 

AllPuntland, Somaliya

[General Duke]

Its funny how A,J.T states that Somaliland is the bomb, I agree a most deadly ticking bomb.

 

Lander & Jin,

 

Federalism, yes the same as USA or Germany or India designed for us Somalia. Power is decentralised otherwise it would be a central state. Each state would have its own legislator, elected mayor and a cabinet to run the affairs of the state. Each state would agree run its budget and make its one laws according to the will of its population. Of course there must be a unifying power and that is the federal government in lets say Mogadishu. Each state would have state and national election where a number of representatives would be sent to the federal parliament.

 

It works and we as Somali’s are not inventing this federalism. Again what’s wrong with it? Why couldn’t an African state have such a formula? It was not the UNION between the south and the north that failed but the regime and its form of centralist administration. If you ignore the symptoms then you will never get cured. Blame a clan, a man even a flag all you like. However this will make your journey a bit longer and more tedious.

 

So who opposes this Federalism idea, well Mogadishu warlords appose it, why because it strips their power which is based on their conrol of Mogadishu the centralist capital. Now Mogadishu would if chosen to be capital keep some power but would not effect the day to day running of the states. This reduction in power they fear most.

 

Others oppose it because they fear that Somalia would break up, that Somalia needs a central government to curb what they see as the danger of LAND’s as they see this as clan dominance and they fear that the Somali identity would be lost. Most of this group are scholars, former communist and ultra nationalist (if Somalia has them). Some who use this argument are ultra CLANIST and see their clans emergence to absolute power being checked.

 

The other group is Somaliland, but why would Somaliland oppose this formula which results in them attaining autonomy and their state without bloodshed or loss of property? This is because they want federalism or confederation (other form of decentralisation) based on the 1960 union of two states. Again this argument is no better than the XAMAR warlords as it does not reflect reality on the ground. This is also based on the fear that Somaliland is not more important economically politically and geographically than Say a JUBALAND state in the south. There are some in Somaliland that fear loss of prestige, its black and white a Somaliland republic or obscurity.

 

Hence this quote is quite suitable.

“Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever."

- Napoleon Bonaparte

[A.J. Timacaddeh]

smith

 

somaliland is too good for federalism. we dont need no federalism we have got our own constitution which works for us and our people obey that constition so flush your sad federalims idea down the toilet cause IT AINT GONNA WORK :rolleyes:

[wind talker]

federalism, democracy, centralism, capitalism, communism, etc-ism

 

don't y'all think its time to overcome the mental barriers that force YOU ALL to see everything by western standards? i mean we're muslim/african/somali. we should come up with our own solutions in context with our situation. if democracy and federalism worked for the fore fathers of the american nation, its because they convened and comprimised till they reached a viable solution. its time we did the same.

 

on another note, puntland is not an example of federalism or even an example of good governance. in my opinion, the late somali dictator mohamed siyad barre was a good governor compared to the blood-thirst col cabdullahi yusuf. tribally and traditionally, i hail from the regions encompassed within the puntland dictatorship and i don't support that government or any of its thuggish and corrupt leaders.

 

as for somaliland, let them be. if its working for them, maasha alaah. they're our fellow muslims and somalis. indepedence? as long as everyone or the majority agrees. period. no ifs or ors. if ur from "southern somalia," then u have no right to decide the fate of the north. period.

 

besides, i'm sick and tired of the endless war of the egos between ajt and lander on 1 side & bari nomad and samurai on the other. move on, gentlemen..

 

my piece..