The government gets its way- Gains more than the 139 majority:

[xiinfaniin]

IT IS GOING TO BE VERY PERSONAL FOR ALMOST EVERYONE IN XAMAR.

Why? And who’re the people of Xamar that you speak of? Wasn’t fifteen years of roadblocks and check-points enough for them, I ask? If they could not revolt against the wicked acts of theirs and demand change throughout those fateful years, what makes you think it would be different this time around? The mentality to prevent every effort to restore government in the hope to keep the loot is indeed miserable. And it just begs the question, sxb, of how long could Somalis survive as a people and reclaim their lost dignity when significant number of them thinks that way?

 

Power to you if you seriously think that Caato, Yalaxow, and Qanyare and those they lead will eventually come victorious out of this war.

[Xoogsade]

Xiinfaniin, Change and revolution are on the march in Xamar. Many who crowd the mosques today are ex-thugs who used to carry guns and blindly served their respective warlords. Thanks to religious men's efforts in every tribe who make that possible by converting one thug a day. As tribal sentiments must be respected, bloodshed avoided by all means necessary, the best means of change for people in Xamar is islam without violence at this jancture. With this plan of operation, a war, particularly one foisted on people by someone who doesn't care about them nor share the pain with them is UNACCEPTABLE.

 

A/Y was elected on compromise and was not given a mandate to wage a war. He comes in peaceful and serves his time or goes away with "good riddance" sigh of relief. If the government doesn't work due to men who are as vile, for there is no difference among them, and A/Y has no means to defeat them except bring a devastating war to the door-steps of already mentally and physically depilitated communities, IT IS NOT GOING TO BE ACCEPTABLE. If atto, yalaxoow, qanyare or whoever has a dispute with A/Y can't and won't go outside town to wage their dirty war against A/Y, then it is prudent on A/Y to not bring a war into town. If he does, we know where men like him who thought they were unstoppable ended up. He will be buried alongside Amxaaro I am hoping if he doesn't change his mind.

 

Whether the likes of you scream about "keeping loot" or not, people concerned know what is good for them in this case, FIGHT to the death, and along the way avenge for the thousands of Somalis who had been wronged by Amxaaro, Kill their servile bigots and bury them with their brethren in hell. And that is what matters. Now if you excuse me, I have something to attend to.

[General Duke]

A/Yusuf was elected to bring security. The government will not attack Xamar for Xamar is the eventual seat of the government. Also one point which seems lost on these folks. The Primeminister is from Xamar and is undoubtedly the most popular leader in the city[check out his welcome]. Other leaders are from Mogadishu from Aydeed Jr to Cosoble, Ghamadere, and the government has the support of the population. Was it not the PM who was welcomed in Villa Somalia? Who runs Villa Somalia and its surroundings?

 

This talk of war and attack on Xamar and the coming Amxaro invasion is a ploy used by those who have most to lose. These people dont represent the clans, religious community or even a minority of the people of Xamar, they stand out and cry only for their own self interest.

 

Its easy to talk of war, and easy tod efend Somalia when there is no invasion or even a threat. But when the smoke clears there will be no wwar just some operations to clean up some dirt.

[Xoogsade]

Sometimes I think dadka qaarkii iney ka maran yihiin xaqiiqda qabyaaladda iyo dadka soomaalida meeshey gaarsiisey. As for Geeddi, people welcomed him because they have hopes. They would have welcomed A/Y the same way if he had the courtesy to come or the courage to show up. That he didn't come to town is actually a testament about his ill-will to the residents. Anyways, The show of support for the government doesn't mean people agree with A/Y's plan of bringing ethiopian troops. Likewise, their objection doesn't mean they want to see this government perish if it can be salvaged. They made their point clear, NO ETHIOPIAN TROOPS. Maxaa keeney in la iska daba wareego maantoo dhan oo kulamo aan waxba ka jirin la qabto si Amxaaro loo keeno waddanka? Waa faduul maahaanoo? Aan aragno marka.

 

 

Hadal badan waxba ma taraayo. The last thing I heard was "If we are defeated day time, we will wage the war during nights, and our only fear is about something falling from the sky". That is how committed people are over there about this issue of ethiopian troops.

 

Bottom line, A/Y better stop dancing around melle zenawi or else, he might bring his death-blanket along with the beloved heathens of his. And believe me, when the smoke clears, A/Y and his ethiopian troops are history. I hope along the confusion and the fog of war, Atto kisses a bullet and Yalaxoow loses his head. It will be a celebration.

[General Duke]

^^^ Xoogsade I think you are making quite conradictory statements. For one the warlords are against any troops, not just Ethiopian but any. The country needs impartial limited forces to help guard the governemtn and train the new Somali security institutions. The fact that peopel are going in circles or where going in circles is because the warlods and their supporters made an issue of Ethiopia and so called front line troops. The fact that this conference and the one prior took place in so called front line states was ignores. The fact that IGAD has agreed to bring Sudanese and Ugandan troops was ignored. The state of the country was also ignored.

 

The people welcomed Geedi for they have hope, yes hope of change and improvement in security will be the greatest step towards the fullfilment of this desire and will lead to prosperity for all. Yet the governenment has a plan, it's branches Presiden, Cabinet and Parliment are at an agreement, what now, why are we still talking about Ethiopian troops? Why the lies, which are there to further only a political agenda.

 

Lets go further, we have two sides yes, a government and an opposition. In the governemnt camp we have the President, and the PM and most of the ministers.

 

The opposition also is made up of a diverse group, their backbone is the warlords of Mogadishu and their legitimacy stems from having the Chairman of the Parliment on side. This group includes Jinni, Jamac, Casharo, Mohamed Abdi Yusuf, Zakaria and Casha all from the Puntland region which the President is from.

 

What we have is a difference of ideas but not clan against clan, we have battles for position and interest, politics indeed creates starnge bed fellows. But its much better than the all out clan warfare of the past 15 years.

[Xoogsade]

Where is the contradiction? Your mistake is assuming just because people want government they have to accept everything A/Y wants. Weren't ethiopian troops voted down and other troops from other countries accepted by the same men you say are against them? besides, all this dirty war you are waging against the parliamentarian Sharif is due to the fact that ethiopian troops were rejected under his watch. Dadka ciyaal maa la moodey? What is your animosity against sharif other than he rejected A/Y yusuf's request to have Amxaaro in Muqdisho?

 

In any case, hadal badan waxba ma taro, what is acceptable was already made clear. A/Y needs not to waste time on unacceptable proposals and ethiopian troops that are not welcome. It is the death of his government and he has no mandate to fire a bullet in Xamar. People with his mentality want to create an environment of dispute and devision by sticking to their line. Ever since he was voted in he was after controversy and bs talk. Bottom line, he can't wage a war in Mogadishu. Too bad Atto and Yalaxoow are playing the safe cards. It is people versus ethiopian troops and these warlords seem to be on the safe side. People will be blind to their reputation so long as A/Y is insisting on his friends. That is what you, A/Y and anyone else who favours such troops don't understand. Perhaps you should open your minds up to this reality and make use of what you have and stop working on false hopes that it might work. It will fire back and real bad as well.

[Jumatatu]

Originally posted by Xoogsade:

A/Y.....Bottom line, he can't wage a war in Mogadishu.

Neither anywhere else in Somalia,sxb. However the question is does he himself have the ability to wage War at all, apart from relying on the forces or powers of others..

[Xoogsade]

Well, Jumatatu, I am trying to protect his bad boy reputation and throwing some bone to his hardcore supporters nooh, adi see camalkaa lol. Waxaan ka dhigaayaa, inuu awood leeyahay uu dagaal ku oogo siduu ku booteeyey hadda ka hor

 

 

People are caught in between two groups, laakiin, they will err on the more dignified side at this time. They will worry about the consequences hadhoow if and when this war that many on A/Y's side are advocating materializes. I stop for a moment in my train of thoughts sometimes thinking how on earth these guys think A/Y can fight in Xamar even with American troops let alone Amxaaro? How much they are underestimating will be clear in the future. I am glad that no one from A/Y's tribe, even someone remotely related to him by a margin of a thousand is coming to Xamar to dirty their hands. It is safer for all of us, for our hearts, for our parents and abtiyaal that he comes alone and with Amxaaro.

[xiinfaniin]

Xoogsade, for the record, I am for the introduction of foreign troops as long it excludes from the Ethiopian army. From what I understand the decision reached by parliament has been upheld by the government. Although I am still uncomfortable with Ethiopia’s logistical and technical support role, nevertheless, considering the bitter actualities on the ground, it’s a one that I can live with. Sudanese and Ugandan troops are more suiting to provide essential security arrangements necessary for the government’s relocation program, I reason. It is practically impossible for this government to attack Xamar and frankly unnecessary for them to do that. Why would Geedi bring the wrath of war to the very community he represents, one would wonder? But again you may unfairly argue that the warlords are true leaders of the city’s residents.

 

Now, it’s quite interesting how you present your argument, sxb. Your approach is equally fascinating, I must say. Further more you sound very righteous in your upcoming war and precisely know the plans in place to mobilize the people of Xamar to fight to death. Or so you said! Your characterization of my argument as a mere screaming is a telling sign. For some reason the subject of looted properties and illegally-held cities touches an aching nerve of yours and somehow makes you act erratically. An old Arabic adage comes to mind:(يكا المريب يقول خذوني ). In rough translation: The wicked suspect could almost confess!

It’s understatement (for me) to say that Xamar was my city. But it was really my city in every sense of the word. It has been my stopping ground till the invading crowds marched in. The subsequent plague and outbreak of utter anarchy is a well known fact. The people of Xamar that you speak of who are against the restoration of some civility to that besieged city are the very ilk who had the lion share of the booty of the civil war. They will resist and fight to the death against any reversal of the gains they made! That’s understandable and expected.

But for you to characterized them as a reformed Muslims who’re poised to purify themselves from the previous sins in heading to the frontline trenches to defend what’s theirs is quite devious.

 

My position is very clear: I want this government to work (don’t necessarily like its leaders and did have similar stand toward CabdulQasim’s) for it’s the interest of Somalis as a people and Somalia as a country. The status of Xamar must be changed by any reasonable measure and its people must be freed from the heartless warlords. Pain full evections from certain cities and private and public properties would be the logical steps forward. As for you Mr. Xoogsade, defend your loot if you will, but don’t camouflage with our noble Jihaad as it has clear qualifiers and goals.

 

P.S: It is more likely than not that the reformed gangs still occupy the very properties they looted.

[Xoogsade]

Xiinfaniin, you wouldn't have wasted your time talking to someone you think of property looter and keeper would you? It is not uncommon for people, driven by sentimentality, to deal with others on the premise that nothing good comes out of them(others). That is why I deal with views that are skewed and bigotted all the time, the victim mentality that is bent on revenge through any means, their opponents deserve anything meted out on them by any means, any peace jesture is nothing more than buying time for a later mischief, all of them thugs and looters, untrusworthy I may add, on and on goes the charade of opinions written as a logical discussion when they are nothing more than thinly veiled animosity of a poisoned mind.

 

Problems exist but they are not insurmountable. With perseverance and the hard work of those who care about their people, pay-off will come sooner or later. WE DON'T NEED A WAR, THAT IS THE FACT. Waa baahanahay BAKHTIGA looma CUNO. That is the KEY here. Just because you are in need doesn't mean you set aside your dignity and accept whatever. There is no such desperation out there. And lastly, people won't ask anyone else's opinion, YOUR OPINION TO BE EXACT, to wage a just war to fight what they don't like and consider an insult to their dignity. Who cares if few bad apples are on the side of the good when the opposition is just as bad and may be more venemous than the local ABEESO? Wax walba waxbaa ka daran and people will deal with issues according to their severity.

 

Anyways, these occupied towns you speak of or the properties are simple issues that can be resolved once a just government comes into existence. There is no such thing actually as an occupied town. The towns are built as Somali towns and we are not going to accept an IMPORTED IDEOLOGY OF TRIBALISM THAT PUTS A LABEL ON A TOWN. Definitely Xamar and Kismayo are Somali Towns and they will remain so. The only persons who will face punishment if they refuse to co-operate, will be the ones who took someone else's house or property, otherwise, Magaalo qof laga xigo ma jirto. Besdies, Xamar looks completely different with the addition of new houses that go up everyday. You and your friends are the ones who are obsessed with this property loot while others made fortunes for themslves through business and workmanship. Guri islaameed sideedaba waxaa ku jiro kuwa baadiyaha dhow dhow ka imaadey badankooda oo maqley gurigaanaa laga cararey. Some other people exist as well who willingly kicked out residents in the early days of the war. In any case, the houses abondoned are like drop in the sea compared to the houses owned by their real owners who built them with their own hard earned money. Lagaa xoolo badan in every sense.

 

PS: You won't share the burden of the looter so you might as well avoid acquiring a sin by being presumptuous. May be you should pick up the Quran and dust it off so you know better than to accuse people of what they aren't just because they belong to a different tribe that once had a dispute with yours. I don't recognize you own a JIHAD of any sort as well and most definitely igama xigtid the people you refer to "their/your Jihad".

 

Lastly, foreign troops with the absence of Ethiopia is palatable or people will blind themselves to their presence so long as they stay separate from communities and do not interfere with the local politics.

[wind.talker]

Ahem...If I may step into the fray for a short second. My brother XOOGSADE seems a bit contradictory.

 

Originally posted by Xoogsade:

Anyways, these occupied towns you speak of or the properties are simple issues that can be resolved once a just government comes into existence.

Okay. To "resolve" an issue means that the issue we're speaking of exists, no? Seems like I was mistaken in this assumption, for you wrote:

 

Originally posted by Xoogsade:

There is no such thing actually as an occupied town.

On one hand, these "occupied towns" exist (for, according to you, a government can "resolve" the issue). In the same breath, you blatantly deny the fact that clan militias from Galgaduud/Mudug regions are in regions that don't traditionally belong to them.

 

SXB, in the post-1991 era, Somalis have all returned to their TRADITIONAL homelands. No one can say Reer Galgaduud or Reer Mudug can't LIVE in other regions. But when armed clan militias are in control of cities (as was the case in Baydhabo before 1999), then that's called an "occupation" - for the military presence is led by and is under the exclusive control of a certain Somali clan. Are you in denial of this? In a recent report, Salaad Xiis (of Hiiraan Online) wrote about Marka:

 

Muran kama taagna in maamulka Shabeelaha Hoose uu xoog ku qabsaday gobolkaas, inkastoo Sanjabiil uu ku doodayo in ay meesha geysay Dowladdii Carta ee uu Hoggaaminayay C/qaasim Salaad Xasan,

 

SOURCE: http://www.hiiraan.org/2005/may/Magaalada_Marka.htm

 

Marka is the classic example of an occupied town where the self-declared leaders dont' even DENY that fact! Don't you realize that most of Somalia's current problems stem from the fact that "others" forcefully control and occupy the lands of natives? Land expansion - through occupation - is an ideology the late Gen Caydiid (alaha u naxaristo) begun with his invasions of Galkacyo, Gedo, Kismaayo and Baydhabo. Galkacyo, Gedo, Kismaayo and later Baydhabo all successfully repulsed his invasions. That's why today's USC is taking advantage of unarmed minority clans in southern Somalia. Men, like Indhocade, are merely continuing a tradition in the family, so to speak. But justice will prevail, sooner or later.

[Xoogsade]

Bro Wind.Talker, it is not a contradiction, in your first quote , I was quoting Xiinfaniin, and in the second part, I was giving my opinion on the alleged occupied towns. It wasn't a confirmation on my part, hence, no contradiction the way I was thinking. My position is evident in the subsequent comments I made. I may have screwed up the phraseology though. The negation of occupation is saying the towns were built as somali towns without justifying appropriations or usurpations or ruling people by force when they don't want you there.

 

 

Buying a land in Jamame or aseendo would be have been normal, buying a house in Kismayo would have been Normal if you belonged to a tribe that settled in Mudug and you had no relation with the locals for example. What makes legal business dealings wrong now is the status quo of political stalemate and tribal thinking. Such mentality will disappear as soon as government is agreed upon. Basically, can anyone be denied to live in Kismayo and Xamar or any town just because they belong to a different tribe? If it was legal for anyone to buy a land, a farm, a house, and pay the seller without intimidation or coercion, to me, that is perfectly legal. To others who object, they RESENT THE TRIBE of the person and thus judge the transaction to be VOID. That is the reality. Now, there are some who may have exploited someone or brazenly robbed them of their land or property, but does that tragedy make what is legal illegal for law abiding others? Indeed, the true muslims are the ones who control themselves when there is no authrotiy they fear except God. And such people must live where they please. There is a lot of confusion because of tribal sentiments, but common sense should prevail, sentimentality and grievances should not cloud our judgements to see what is wrong as wrong and what isn't isn't. Tomorrow, when all conflicts are buried, you are having a neighbour who might not be related to you and you won't care. Qofkii xoolo laga heysto, markii dowlad la helo aa loo soo dhicinaa. Inta ka horeyso, Let us not make what is legal illegal just because, well, of reer hebel waaye qofkaan.

 

As for MARKA again, There were some marauding thugs who harrassed and robbed, or done some unpleasnt things unabatedly to the town's people in the early days of the war. I think the man you talk about or the men you talk about who are occupying the town as you say were a welcome relief as expressed by the elders of the town. Politics change and that is perhaps what happened. So some elders might be wishing today to have matters exclusively in their own hands while others who feel they contributed a lot want to stay put. I am not getting involved in such arguments as I don't benefit from it. No relations to both sides. My position always is and has been, complete freedom for every somali person and safety from another Somali who might harm them physically and financially, as such, if the residents of the town are united in their desire to get rid of anyone whom they don't like, POWER TO THEM. Aniga wax la isku qasbo ma aaminsani. I would rather have my fence with a huge lock on the door than share a space with someone I know for sure doesn't like me.

[xiinfaniin]

Denying and cheap dismissals would not let you off the hook, sxb. Unless you’re dangerously misled its not a simple issue to empty out entire cities from the natives (Marka, Muqdisho, Brava, iyo kismayo) and occupy them precisely for political and economic gains. It’s not a simple issue to drive out the unsuspecting civilians from their homes and farms and basically dwell in them. Saaxiib maxaad ii keentay? How dare you said that (you can express you opinions, I suppose)?

 

Granted these issues should be resolved through reconciliation and reasonably just government is needed to facilitate the process. But how could that be possible if your likes (I believe you reflect the attitude of warlords) think that there is no such thing as occupied towns or regions. And the looted properties (public or private) is insignificant and not worthy of discussion. When you assert that there are no occupied towns you helplessly sound like a lost sheep. Indeed you and your argument constitute the PERFECT EXAMPLE of what’s wrong with Somali politics. To dilute the settings of Somalia’s political and social landscape in order to affect a favorable outcome was Sr. Aidiid’s clannish ideology. The rest of his gangs seem to have taken this to the heart and implemented to the letter. It’s a wicked political platform that can’t be sustained. It has caused that community dearly. If you think straight, good Xoogsade, it’s the heart of Somalia’s instability and without facing that ugly reality we are doomed for good unless, of course, Allah generously rescues us. But again how could that happen when some of us die and defend what does not belong to them and yet claim to be in accord with Allah’s directives (Indhacadde comes to mind).

 

You seem to have forgotten that Allah does not heed the callings from those whose shelter is ill-gained. The repents of those whose sins were against fellow Muslims do indeed fail to gain Allah’s regard unless they secure the forgiveness of their victims and return what’s not theirs. And I wonder if those reformed gangs were taught to do that. You also seem to be fixated on the notion of the Ethiopian army and its imminent invasion. That I don’t it see coming. If it materializes it will be, I admit, perfect smokescreen for the pseudo sheikhs like Indhacadde and his unholy ilk.

 

 

I do know that, as a mortal, I am vulnerable to sin, and I ask forgiveness from my Compassionate Allah whom I always helplessly need. But don’t you tell me the followers of Caato are fighting for good objectives. And no, you’re not a looter (Maah-maahdii baad ka carootey) but you sound like a one when you minimize the significance of what’s looted. Xamar is a home of one million people but few of them (very determined) swear for their lives to dwarf every effort to restore governance. In that context I am not in any way generalizing lest you depict me that way.

[Xoogsade]

Xiinfaniin, Haye, hadda diintana waa monopoly miyaa? Sheekada ilaah baa la iska xigaa mey soo gaartey? ever paused for a moment to think about your claim of special connection to god while you deny others the same connection? Your story was people occupy houses, when you were challenged on the generality, you changed it to "they live in an ill-gained abode" and their prayers won't be accepted. All those comments to just stick to your expressed deep convictions about other people's irreligiousity, to never let an opportunity of maligning them en masse pass by you, and that none among them can be innocent? You even said the reformed may be occupying in such houses you allude to? I think you left out they may have killed some people too and are bloody murderers Jihaadkiina waad iga ceshatey mar hore by saying "Our Jihad", hahaha, hey, I am laughing all of a sudden at this lol.

 

 

Well, I don't expect any change of heart towards these people in general from you or from anyone else whose mind is made up about them anyway. Just trying to awaken you to the truth, which is, you are going to hurt only yourself in certain extreme thoughts while others are not aware of what you talk about and are busy with their lives. Just make sure you don't dig a hole taller than you while in pursuit of a phantom occupants of an ill-gained homes, whose prayers, you were informed privately, are unacceptable. I told you some people live in houses that don't belong them, the larger populace own their homes or rent. Like I said before, and based on what I observed in many people's comments and thoughts for years in political discussions, everyone in Xamar is evil. Waa yaabe, haddiiba arrinta sidaas uga go'an tahay by many of you, Maxaa dadka laga rabaa marka ? They are simply evil and can't be reformed, they love being evil. Can you guys leave them alone then in their evil town? They love being evil. Happy now?

 

You are forgiven for possibly being hurt previously by certain someone in Xamar. That is, if I interpret your passionate negativity as one generated by personal experience. Otherwise, and you are in this just because your distant cousin happened to flee Xamar a decade ago, man, what can I say, dambiga si fiican u badso.

[wind.talker]

Originally posted by Xoogsade:

Otherwise, and you are in this just because your distant cousin happened to flee Xamar a decade ago, man, what can I say, dambiga si fiican u badso.

An entire clan of people who's greatest PRIDE is the fact that they chased out other Somalis out of Somalia. XOOGSADE, sxb, with all due respect, you're in total DENIAL of the fact that some Somali regions/cities are occupied by clan militias, so I won't waste my time in it. So, let me say what you want to hear:

 

I was kicked out of Somalia by USC militias based on nothing but my clan. My father (alaha u naxaristo) was ARRESTED by the Barre regime several times, because he was supposedly engaged in "anti-government" activity. Did that matter to the USC militias, who's only objective was to kill all members of a certain Somali clan? I forgave their actions, because they made mistakes, as humans normally do. But I've never forgotten them. We left Xamar for them, and they came to Kismaayo with full military ready to annahilate D folks. They failed sxb. USC failed in occupying Galkacyo (you can't deny this), in occupying Gedo (for Col Shabeel's body is plenty of evidence) and in Baydhabo (we all know what happened to Caydiid Jr's wife). What I'm wondering about you is this sxb: USC has failed in militarily controlling strong Somali clans. So, they've decided to control the Barawanis. How proud are you? Like I said, your greatest pride derives from the fact that you're happy a certain Somali clan was chased out of Muqdisho. Mine is that I always learn from the past - Muqdisho wixii lagu dhisay adba waad taqaan. Muruq Hebel iyo maskax Hebel. 15 years, no progress. I let you fill in the Hebels

 

P.S. How long do you think the current status quo will remain intact?