Thread on rebellion against muslim rulers!

[Fiqikhayre]

The sister is controdicting herself but I won't address those points of controdiction!

 

But the Jihaad issue on a muslim land being invaded, who gave the authority to the UIC, which was lead by one clan because it originated from one clan to declare a defensive Jihaad on territories they don't even rule!

 

You see that's the madness I'm talking about. The sister however will not understand the peculiar issue of here, the UIC recognising the authority of the government TFG but on the same time opposing them!

 

The ICU didn't rule Baidoa nor did they rule Puntland or Gedo for that instance so what is the defensive Jihaad you talking about?

 

They were invited by other enteties who were not under the control of the Islamic courts! What these people don't get is that they think the ICU was in control of the whole country and all Somalis were in agreement with them there laid their error!

 

When they were saying they have jurisdiction over places as far as Jigjiga it shows you only how much of disillusioned people we're talking about!

 

They were not inclusive and many people in the country were opposing them but to claim they were universally recognised is a shambles!

 

They were another faction predominately made up by one clan faction and when asked why that was the case they said 'Because the courts were made by clans in Mogadishu it is only logical that the majority of its leaders are one clan'!

 

They further said we're going to diversify as we go on capturing other clans and their lands is that feasible?

 

Don't tell me about Fahad Khalaf or anyone else because his clan was not represented nor his degaan. He was a single man who joined hands with the courts in Mogadishu!

 

I ask the sister: 'How did a qabiil based local Mogadishu clan courts turn into a broad exclusive and representative body that can speak for the whole of Somalia'?

 

Fahad Khalaf was an individual his clan wasn't represented that's why he was given the Education ministry with the most going to Mogadishu clans, listen to what Aweys said on interview when he was asked that!

 

Don't lie sister even Aweys said and confirmed the courts being predominantly from one clan and he said as the clans who join the local-based courts who have elevated themselves to become broad representatives of Somalia and other areas they did not control increase they shall be included and reflect its leadership!

 

These people were khawaarij who were ill-advised and did not have any mandate nor ruled the whole country but who only knew how to wage 'Jihaad' without considering the affects on people and the country!

 

I guess it was part of the 'defensive' Jihaad to close down the schools and send the youngsters to their early graves whilst likes of Indhacadde enjoy asylum in Europe?

 

Hassan Dahir Aweys a well-known khawaarij is known only to know how to spill blood without having a clue or plan! He failed as he always did because he's doing was not a 'Jihaad' nor defensive Jihaad.

 

The second thing is he knows, how to run after leaving the children on the battlefield to die, why didn't he become a shaheed and fight til death ascends on him?

 

He's a classic khawaarij and the sister doesn't have any valid points, she would even lie about the UIC confirming the legitimacy of the TFG even when they struck their ill-advised and planned duulaan!

 

A power-hungry man will run because his ego tells him so, but he should have vacated the country and gone to another place because he had numerous options to choose from but he was full of himself that's why him and his group failed because they only know how to start revolutions without having a vison or following the sunnah!

 

How can a group five month old (they've been training in Mogadishu since Abdullahi Yusuf's election in 2004), who know the times they live in and the geopolitical insensitives together with the division that exists in Somalia call for a defensive Jihaad on area's there jurisdiction don't fall in or they don't control?

 

It's madness, it was an unholy alliance and because they were not pure themselves they werer crushed!

 

Reminds me about the poem 'Establish the islamic state in your hearts it will be established for you on this earth'! Did Yusuf Indhacadde have an Islamic state in his heart?

 

Did the clan fighters have it? No!

 

What we needed was a purification and teaching process before we embark on a mission that is crazy for a boxer he has to first train, nutrion and follow a special died, go through health-checks, be mentally ready and organised, have the go ahead and support and a realistic chance then only then will he enter the ring!

 

But let's imagine him having no trainer don't even have a 'rule' on his body because he can't control his hand from putting pies into his mouth because his body is divided up, his mind is also confused with different ideologies and aqaaid, even his mind is not united which is controlled by one unified part of his body, he doesn't train nor does he have equipment for constructive training and when he finally enteres the ring he has to face a group of boxers who are much stronger, united and better in technique ways in boxing? Isn't that suicide? Those folks put Islaam down themselves with their mad actions!

 

Purify yourself first and then teach and gradually unify the country but 'We've been invited into 'tuulo heblaayo' etc won't get you anywhere, they were outsmarted because they were not following the sunnah properly! Some want to Run before they can walk but the ICU wanted to fly before they could actually walk or sit down for that matter! They did a dis-service to Islaam like all Khawaarij do!

[Pi]

^^ Ereterian logistics and support for the ICU was just a rumor. Besides, even if there was any, those that helped were all muslims. Whoever disagrees with this is a clan worshiper. Bal waxaas dhagaysta.

 

And people wonder why ICU was swiftly defeated.

[xiinfaniin]

Originally posted by Sheikh Fiqqikhayre:

I challenge

Xiin

for a debate at a time of his choosing inshallah!

 

Xiin choose your time and we should discuss in this thread or another inshallaah in the audience of this gallery being or witness!

 

Bring forth your arguments I want a

live

discussion with you!

Fiqi, In your logic AQasim was the Amiirul mu’muniin and since adeer Cabdulle opposed him and conspired against him with Ethiopia, he should had been executed! By logical extension a man who obstructed the rule of the former Amiirul mu’muniin should not be obeyed today! Do you see it now how shaky your argument is, yaa fiqi? And you hastily claimed that you’ve won the argument!

 

Midda kale, don’t you realize that you failed to answer my two questions? Those two questions are very important for your answer will give a measure of your understanding as far as Islamic khalifah is concern!

 

Khalaf, if you think good Fiqi made headways in justifying adeer Cabdulle’s rule on a sound theological base then you are utterly confused! I for one failed to see any new points that are worthy of a response. There is a valid point which many people in this site before him made; the question of how and with what strategy to oppose this occupation is valid and is worth of exploring! But to camouflage his support for this entity with prophetic sayings that were put in place to keep order and peace under the Islamic rule, is just a mere camouflage and for you to repeatedly refer it as a solid point is quite a disappointment adeer! There is no point to refute adeer! But good Fiqi can still help us help him by sharing with us what definition of Muslim ruler he has! The Muslim ruler whose behalf prophet Muhammad urged the faithful to support him that is! Till then i dont think there is a productive debate to be had here adeer!

 

There are many reasons for one to support this tfg. Religion is not one of them, i say!

[Taako Man]

Eritrean soldiers have been caught in Kenya, Their adminstration will obviously deny any involvement. The ICU are made too look like angels. However everybody and their momma knows that they were hijacked by clan motivation. When you make a druglord aka 'sheik' indhacadde top security cheif how can you trust them? Some will say how can you trust Abdullahi yusuf? Well the two opposing sides have fought and now 'sheik' indhacadde the tuug warlord turn sheik is now in Germany sipping on some nice soft drinks and the UIC are running around like a headless chicken.

 

Egypt- A country who abuses there muslim parties like the Muslim brotherhood is now a "God fearing" country? They only supported the UIC for their own geopolitical greed (Read: THE NILE RIVER).

 

 

Eritrea- DO I NEED TO SAY MORE?

 

Saudi Arabia- A country who gives a launching base to the US government is a muslim fearing adminstered country? There King is certainly no Faisal, or he would be dead by now at the bullet of his nephew. They also abuse somalis day in and day out in that country. Mistreat them and have "Hajiya Khamsiin" Somali ladies.

 

Do you guys want me to continue?

 

The countries who have offered the TFG help are its neighbours.

 

Many of which have hosted 100 000's of thousands of Somali refugees in their respective countries. Kenya till this day has close to 200k somalis whom they support in refugee camps.

 

Yemenis have close too 500 thousand somalis in there country and give them many rights which are not allowed to somalis in Saudi Arabia, Egypt etc

 

Ethiopia gave refugee to hundreds of thousands of Somalis (Mostly from Northern Somalia). They have caused instability in Somalia, but if the TFG ask's for their assistance isn't that the right of the legitimate National Government?

[xiinfaniin]

^^I think you got it wrong;Ethiopia asked tfg's and America's assistance and got it! tfg has been asking assistance for some time now and still didnot get it!

 

tfg is usefull tool for Ethiopia, so is Somaliland and Puntland! what can we do about it?

 

War yaa soo baxay oo su'aashaa isku daya?

[Castro]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

^^I think you got it wrong;Ethiopia asked tfg's and America's assistance and got it! tfg has been asking assistance for some time now and still didnot get it!

 

tfg is usefull tool for Ethiopia, so is Somaliland and Puntland! what can we do about it?

 

War yaa soo baxay oo su'aashaa isku daya?

Make a thread of it and there will be many who would throw their two taano in there.

 

I'll think about what can be done while I read my book in bed.

[Khalaf]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

Khalaf

, if you think good Fiqi made headways in justifying adeer Cabdulle’s rule on a sound theological base then you are utterly confused! I for one failed to see any new points that are worthy of a response. There is a valid point which many people in this site before him made; the question of how and with what strategy to oppose this occupation is valid and is worth of exploring! But to camouflage his support for this entity with prophetic sayings that were put in place to keep order and peace under the Islamic rule, is just a mere camouflage and for you to repeatedly refer it as a solid point is quite a disappointment adeer! There is no point to refute adeer! But good Fiqi can still help us help him by sharing with us what definition of Muslim ruler he has! The Muslim ruler whose behalf prophet Muhammad urged the faithful to support him that is! Till then i dont think there is a productive debate to be had here adeer!

 

There are many reasons for one to support this tfg. Religion is not one of them, i say! [/QB]

^^^^He maybe trying to justify the tfgs rule (which has backing of international community) but that is not the point from where I am coming from. I do not care how corrupt, their methods forget ethio troops but if iblis himself aids the tfg! U c adeer they are not the ones who are claiming deenul islam! I don’t believe in lesser of two evils and look the icu is not corrupt as the tfg! There shouldn’t be anything shady or unjust about those who call to islam! The Army of Allah like that of Salahudeen ibn Ayubi is my vision.

 

Putting aside his justification for the tfg rule can u refute his points against the about these movements. And at this stage it would only bring a "greater evil" to miltary resist no?

[xiinfaniin]

^^Which of 'these movements' are you referring to yaa Khalaf?icu?Khawaarij?xammas?xizbu-Allaah?al-qaida?

[Khalaf]

^^Fiqqs accusations of the icu being khawaarij, their methods in somalia, ect

[xiinfaniin]

And you thought that [edit]needed a response? Do you know what khawaarih means yaa Khalaf? Did you understand the two questions i asked him?

[Khalaf]

^^xiin khawaarij were the group who started civil unrest in society ie during the time of Uthman ra, and we can aruge in Puntland during the 90s! calling for change through viloent means when u have not set the stage (purfied) the society, ect. am i confused miya?

[xiinfaniin]

Confused would be understatement adeer! Aad baad u shiddeysantahay ! The issue is one of a legitimacy and reppelion; they repelled against the true and appointed Imaam of Muslims! To equate icu to khawaarij is beyond confusion. Even worse, to equate ina Yusuf to Ali or Othman is madness!

 

 

edit: Castro, thats a good suggestion and IA i will open a thread about it! Because the real challenge is not Ina Yusuf or any other Ethiopian supported strong man in Somalia, the real issue is how we can address the root couse of our prolonged conflict: Ethiopia!

[Khalaf]

looooooooooool I can blame my age! adeer istagfruallah i didnt not compare odayga or any present ppl to Uthman/Ali ra just using an example of groups that start trouble as was done in Puntland. MKA Yoonis made great points i believe and he can take it from here.

 

salaamulah

[Taako Man]

Xiin

 

UIC asked for the assistance of foreigners. "Sheik" Turki explicitly said this himself and that foreign 'mujahideen' came to fight alongside him. Which is utter hypocrisy. This is the same man who was behind killings of innocent people in Waqooyi galbeed.

 

We can have it both ways. Support is support. Just because one sides support doesn't come through like the others is not a justification for highlighting the support one attains. THE UIC asked and they recieved there fate.

[Fiqikhayre]

Xiin your understanding of muslim rulers is wrong because if you had realised and looked around you, you would noticed that their is no real muslim Imaam ruling over a single in the Muslim world!

 

Look around you and give me one if you dare! You can't because you're not talking sense! Our prophet peace be upon him said that we will be ruled the arabian penisula by 'khaliifs' or khulafaa but their titles would change until they were Kings and princes ruling upon them and he told us about this hard times and about unjust rulers! However he said that we should be patient yaa akhi calling for civil strife with no real plan isn't logical and you know it!

 

If I would tell you today a peaceful country like Egypt the people should stand up because their ruler is kaafir than wouldn't welcome it because Egypt would disintegrate and many people would lose their lifes indescrimately!

 

What I'm advocting for is yes let's overthrow those rulers but let's do it in a logical way that adheres to the sunnah!

 

The Prophet peace be upon him lived under the mushrikeen rule the Quraish idol worshippers for over thirteen years and he never ever revolted, why did he accept the 'humiliating' accord of Al-Xudaybiyah!

 

Ask yourself because our Prophet peace be upon him was a Siyaasi in it's purist form not those that live today the word has become synomoys with lies and corruption but in it's pure form I mean!

 

Brother it needs Xikmah and the understanding of the Sunnah!

 

Note a Girl like Rahima who knows and can differciate between acts of kufr and somebody being out of the fold of Islaam and becoming a 'Kaafir'!

 

You can do an act by kufr! The quranic ayah that says 'Those who don't rule by the word of god are kufr or kaafirun' does not mean they have gone outside of the fold of Islam but it is rather a kufr less of a kufr if you understand what I mean!

 

The science is there but how shall we apply it akhi!

 

Before we embark on a islamic revolution in establishing the law of Allaah we have to embark on a process! You cannot say I have changed overnight no it's not going to happen because the people are not ready not they are not ready!

 

Before we go on start futile revolutions we need to purify ourselves then teach because many non islamic elemts have entered the religion today that we need to get rid off! We need to purify our deen and aqaaid then teach after that can we embark on it but how can we when our own solves aren't pure!

 

Xiin can you honestly say today that your soul is pure and that you have a good understanding of the religion and it's principles, which all the good people before us had? No I guess is the answer!

 

Can you a minnesoatan strife for Jihaad what having purified your soul!

 

Adeer we need to purify our hearts and souls and minds then reach out and do dawah starting with the people we can trust like our prophet peace be upon him did!

 

I say why can't we follow the prophet's peace be upon him's path? What's wrong with it? Why can't we adhere to the sunnah?

 

All those revolutions fail from Algeria, Egypt, Syria and Somalia ever asked why?

 

Because no one is following the sunnah! Hizb u-tariir, Al-Islaah and the Ikhwaan Muslimiin all want to establish an Islamic state but do we agree with their aqaaid brother?

 

No, they're one of the 73 sects of Islaam that will go to hell yaa akhi! Their belief pattern is wrong!

 

I'm agaisnt all kind of hisb!

 

Then we have the salaf jadiid, the jihadists who only know jihaad nothing else they heard jihaad but don't even know its ahkaam, then the takfiir and khwaarij all those are sects who do not follow the sunnah! How can they go in an alliance without haven't purified their souls. They don't talk to each other a Salafi jadiid doesn't talk to a Ikhwaan/Islaah or Hizb-ut-tahriir member!

 

Why those differences!

 

Then we have the 'moderates' the Jaamaacatu Tabliigh who said there is no 'Cadhabul Qabri', the Suufis who call themselves Ahlu-Sunnah wal Jamaacah which is a laughable claim thsoe are totally against Jihaad!

 

Others I won't mention the Quraaniyah, the Ahmadiyah, the Rafaawids/Shia and Xabashis they're all undoubtedly out of the fold of Islaam, which you Xiin accidently said 'No' they're muslims!

 

So many things are wrong yaa akhi, why can't we purify ourselves becasue as you have seen we're not pure!

 

Hassan Dahir Aweys and Sheikh Shariif don't see eye to eye on many important relgious themes so what is needed is purification/teaching process!

 

Why can't we have a process yaa akhi, why the futile rush it will fail because it is not following the sunnah properly!

 

Islaam is straight forward so a revolution Islamci state takes along time how long did it take the last prophet peace be upon him?

 

It took him many years!

 

But to establish an Islamic republic in 5 months and on top of that by force with 'clan' soldiers and courts and other unpurified elements will lead to another futile attempt at establish an islamic state!

 

'Establish the Islamic state in your heart and it will be established for you in this world'!

 

Do we have an islamic state in our heart? Certainly I don't and Xiin and don't think even you have or any of us for that matter otherwise we wouldn't be in this damned time-wasting forum 24/7!

 

Nor would we be living amongst kaafirs in their land and compromise our deen everyday! Yes we do don't deny it Xiin! Lower your gaze says the Quraan but today it has become 'tolerable' to not lower your gaze because everywhere you look there's a naked women the sad thing is Xiin you don't even notice them because they have become 'normal'!

 

How many have female work collegues, professors, teachers and class comrades that sometimes you share projects and seats with!

 

She comes at you half naked and you have to deal with them! In the name of project you might be asked to spend hours with a half-naked woman in a place of 'work' or study!

 

We sold our religion! Somalis inside sold their relgion so did many! Islaam needs real struggle akhi often it is the unpleasant things that don't get noticed that makes/brings by an islamic state but bravado won't do that akhi!