I am also a Shia too!

[Viking]

Abdi,

I understand what you are getting at bro. But you still haven't responded to my initial question; since the decisions from Al-Azhar are not of any "value" (as you put it), which scholars (or institutions) do you suggest the contemporary Muslims look to? Also, in his fatwa, Sheikh ibn Baz said that the world is flat (a huge error), would that disqualify him as a scholar to follow if we were follow your logic?

 

 

As for Viking and the fatwa he brought forward, one must remember that the same sheikh had made a fatwa supporting atheistic system of socialism. He was not the only career mufti then, and definitely not the only one now. Come up with proofs from the clear sources of guidance (I have proposed to you the Quráan), if you are not a liar! This is a challenge to your evil self, that which you camouflage behind others and in the name of the quest for the truths. Come out and show your true face if you dare.

Shamsudin,

I don't know what hole you crawled out of before you spilled your bile on these pages, but I'd advice you to think before you type. I've been discussing with bro Nur for over three years and he (although we disagree at times) has never used the words liar and evil when adressing me. I don't see how some holier than thou git can do that the first time he EVER adresses me and to make things worse, the oaf in question is in his 2nd month.

[Salafi_Online]

Viking,

 

I trust that every scholar who issues out a fatawaa has exhausted all available sources for his research, with that being said, they can still err. We weight their research with the quran and sunnah and the position of the Jamaca. this requires a degree of understanding on our part, Thus why seeking knoweldge is waajib.

 

Imam Abdullah ibn Mubaarak used to say," this is your deen becareful who u take it from"[a scholar from the 3rd centry],

 

 

IF memory serves me right, brother Mutakalim is remodeling his views on shiasm, there's no point to post on tha thread.

[Abdi2005]

Originally posted by Viking:

[QB] Abdi,

I understand what you are getting at bro. But you still haven't responded to my initial question; since the decisions from Al-Azhar are not of any "value" (as you put it), which scholars (or institutions) do you suggest the contemporary Muslims look to? Also, in his fatwa, Sheikh ibn Baz said that the world is flat (a huge error), would that disqualify him as a scholar to follow if we were follow your logic?

No he should not be disqualified, but we take only that which dont contradict the majority, it is ijma that counts and not the lonely sheep. And you should know bin baz took back this opinion when other scholar corrected him and he followed the jama(majority) as the prophet(saw) told us stick to the majority.

[Nur]

Viking Bro.

 

you write:

 

Nur, They are not infallible. I agree with your logic bro, but do you think that the research you have done is more than what the scholars of Al-Azhar have done from 1959 and beyond? Don't you think that they went deeper into Shi'a doctrines than you did? Some Muslims (belonging to the four madhabs) view Sufis as heretics while others don't, isn't it simply the same case here too?

 

 

Walaal, We need to agree on a criteria by which we can give credibility to an opinion i.e.:

 

1. Years of research

2. Relevence of research to specific topic

3. objectivity, fairness and context of reserach

 

 

If you say, objectivity, for example, then, should we rely on:

 

1. Our own ideas

2. Other scholars ideas

3. A firm neutral source, like Quraan and Sunnah as a benchmark?

 

The latter makes sense i guess.

 

So, my research was focused on the Shia scholars reliable Major books, heavyweights like Kuleiny, if the Shia deiscard these books, Shia is no more we will all be one nation.

 

Then I explained what Ilaah, ibaadah , and Imaam means.

 

Then I made the connection, showing how they deviated.

 

Now, being an honest brother, when you view how I clarified my case, clearly, and how unknown it is to you the mesthod and motives and independence of Al Azhar's Sheikh had for their fatwa ( Unlike Shia ulema who are independent from government by taking the Khums from faithfulo), what are you inclined to believe? If Al Azhar tells you that the Kaaba will be moved yo Mogadishu, would it matter how much research they made? or their fame? remember the story of Ukhdud was driven by a young boy who dared to say what the then ulema derd not say, he was the reason many people converted to islam, and also the Asxaabul Kahf, and aslo Prophet Ibrahim, the establishment of religion should be closely watched by all Muslims, with a criteria, Quraan and Sunnah.

 

 

You write:

 

We are all responsible for the choices we make in the end but we (people of SOL) aren't scholars and rely a lot of the research done by them. What we aim for in the end is to find out the truth .

 

 

Walaal, What credential do you require for someone to be called a scholar?

 

Is there a scholar who does not rely on other scholars previous work?

 

Yes walaal, we all aim at truth, thats why we should think out of the box.

 

 

Nur

[Viking]

Nur,

It is evident bro that there isn't anyone (besides Mutakalim - although he is taking a long time to adress the issues you took up) who is able to adress the issues you raised. So far, your points have been used by other nomads to criticize the Shi'a althought they have no way of verifying if they are true or not. I'm not doubting what you said, but we can only derive any good from this discussion if there is someone with knowledge and acess to Shi'a literature adressing the issues you brought up.

 

As for the fatwas, we do have the duty of scrutinising them and not accepting them blindly. I wanted to find out your opinion as to why the Ja'fari Madhab is recognised by Al-Azhar and not by scholars from Hijaz. Some dubious fatwas have come come from both Egypt and the Hijaz, but does this particular fatwa have any underlying motives?

[RendezVous]

^^^I am saddened that some fellas are taking people here for a ride..Please answer the questions or just simply say we don't know if this is our Aqeedah or not.How can someone not know about his Aqeedah.Someone posted the SHIA aqeedah..and we asked If you agree if this is your Aqeedah..and nobody 'dared' say YES this is my Aqeedah..You are only waiting for re-inforcement from Mutakalim.

 

I think even Mutakalim will dwell on simple issues like fatwas and by pass the Aqeedah.He may as well concentrate on convincing us to follow the religion of a 'small imaam' who has supernatural powers like the 'JESUS'.The IMAAM has a similarity with JESUS in that he is 'GONE' and has never been seen again..Let us all please arrange to make things easier for day dreamers like me and OG GIRL...she says she and her family(Mum)..were just Shias for some few years..I wonder what their other families believe in.

 

Thank you..We will be exemplary when we call EVERYTHING ..by it's name.

 

SHIA wants to pretend to be the Fifth Madhab.Please assume them to be far away from the FOUR RECOGNIZED MADHABS.

 

[S.O.S]

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

 

Dear brothers and sisters,

As promised I’m initiating the refutation of falsehoods by re-examining the creed of the “ithnaa cashariyyah†shiicaa in the light of the Quráan one by one. What I hope to achieve by that is, to remove any doubt that may exist, regarding the differences between the people of truth and the twelvers, that it is not related to political or historical issues, but are of fundamentally irreconcilable gabs in the belief-system of Islam. I hope too, that the brothers and sisters will correct the mistakes I’ve made in this effort, and add everything I left out due to ignorance or forgot due to weakness, after all I’m a man with very little knowledge and understanding of the world.

 

CAQIIDATUL-BADAA

This is the belief that Allah deficient in his knowledge of detail and the future, therefore makes mistakes, so needs to change mind frequently. In other words Allah has no power over events in his creation of subduing onto his will, He is ignorant of somethings of which when He finds out, needs to change mind in accordance, because previously it was outside of His knowledge and awareness. This is bluntly denying Allah’s Attributes; this is contrary to what the Quráan teaches us, and the way of Islam.

 

To proof that I’m not making this up, below are few extracts taken from shiicaa sources affirming the importance of believing that concept in their belief-system, even more important than salaad, soon, zakko, xajj …just deside for yourself after reading these quotes. I’m sure that whoever believes in these fantasies would be able to explain to us in a more “rational†manner, the reason for holding these beliefs and their proof from the Quráan (or ofcourse deny the Quráan in its totality).

 

“There is no more rewarding and better way to elevate and glorify Allah than to say, Allah has come to know things of which he was previously ignorantâ€

 

“If the people knew the benefits and the enormous amounts of ajar one could get by saying Allah is ignorant/unaware of some things, people would never get tired of repeating it every dayâ€

 

“Allah has never sent a messenger, but to forbid drinking alcohol and convey to them that Allah is ignorant/unaware of the futureâ€

 

“There is no similar or more rewarding worship, that to declare concept of Allah’s ignorance of the futureâ€

 

For references, see: Usuulul Kaafi, chapter 1 page 146, Kulayni. Al-Tawxiid, page 332, by their “raíisul muxaddithsiin†Ibn Babaway Assunduuq. Al-Anwar, vol. 3, page 107, Al-Majlisi (who also states that there are 70 xaddiiths from their imams stating that point). Addariica Ilaa Tusaami Fii Shiica, chapter 3, page 53-57 (is also listed 25 books dealing with that concept alone).

 

REASONS FOR BELIEVING AND THE NECESSATIES OF INVENTING IT

 

1) The shiicaa “twelver†belief is built upon lies and forgeries.

2) The macsuumiyyah of their imams, who is claimed to have knowledge of everything. (Nur may be able to list many more points)

 

Therefore if the imaam gets things wrong, it is not his fault but Allah’s, who had changed things which previously were based on His deficient knowledge, and are now changed according to His updated Knowledge/information. That is as you all can see a win-win scenario for these wicked innovators after adding the ultimate escape-clausule in their fundamental creed.

 

The best example is the 70 years claim after which the imaams would rule over the world. When the 70 years lapsed and people started asking questions, it was replied to them: “Allah changed his mind according to new development of which He knew not when the promise was made†see Usuulul Kaafi, chapter 1, page 260. There are more such examples in history. Unfortunately, the taste for irony was lost on them too, when they declared lawful to declare ignorance on Allah and unlawful on their mortal imams, but Allah said:

 

“They attribute to Allah what they hate (for themselves), and their tongues assert the falsehood that the reward most fair is for themselves: without doubt for them is the fire, and they will be the first to be hastened into it!†(suuratul-Naxl 62)

 

“Glorified is your Lord, the Lord of Might and Honour, above what they attribute to Him†(suuratu-Saaffaat 180)

 

WHAT IS THE VIEW OF THE QURÃAN

 

The following verses from the Quráan inform us, contrary to what the “twelver†shiicaa uphold, that Allah’s Attributes are all that which is affirmed by He and His Messenger (peace be upon him) for Himself, and we must affirm. Also all that which denied by He and His Messenger (peace be upon him) for Himself, we must deny.

 

Moreover, Allah said:

 

“With him are the keys to the Unseen. No one knows them except He. He knows what is in the land and in the sea. Not a leaf falls but He knows it, not a grain (is there) in the dark (crevices) of the earth, nor a fresh thing or withered, but it is (recorded) in a Clear Book. It is He who takes away your souls by the night and knows what you do by the day†(suuratl-Ancaam 59-60)

 

“He created everything, then He determined it with (perfect) determination†(suuratul-Furqaan 2)

 

“Verily, We created everything in a just proportion.†(suuratul-Qamar 49)

 

For example, contrary to what they said, when Ismaaciil died before his father, imaam Jacfar Assaadiq which, according to them, the imaam heir-apparent was not supposed to be dying before the imam, and was again accredited to Allah’s knowledge deficiency and change of mind in line with the new events; However, Allah says in the Quráan:

 

“It is not for a soul to die save by the will of Allah: a term written down.†(suuratul-Cimraan 145)

 

“Nor a long-lived man ages up nor is a decrease made in his age but is in a Book.†(suuratul- Faadir 11)

 

“Each term is written down. Allah blots out or confirms what He will and with Him is the Mother of the Books.†(suuratul-Racd 38-39)

 

“Allah has knowledge of everything.†(suuratu-Tawbah 115)

 

“And Allah is Aware of all things.†(suuratul-Fatx 26)

 

“Verily, Allah knows the unseen of the heavens and earth. Verily, He is aware of all that is in (men’s) hearts.†(suuratul-Faatir 35-38)

 

Allah informs us that He knows everything, that which was, that which was not, that which was not even if it was, that which is to be, that which is not to be, that which is not to be even if it was; what all their outcome was/is/would be/could have been. As Allah said:

 

“And, if they are returned, they would be back to doing what they were forbidden.†(suuratul-Ancaam 28)

 

“Had Allah known any good in them, He would have made them hear. But, had He made them hear, they would have turned away and shown their backs.†(suuratul-Anfaal)

 

“Were there any gods except God in (the heavens and the earth) surely they would have fallen in disorder and chaos.†(suuratul-Anbiyaa 22)

 

From what I’ve set out above, if correct (I trust upon you to point out my mistakes, and I expect for those who ascribe to the above mentioned school of thought to ignore these points as usually), we can easily conclude that none of whosoever believes in the sanctity of the Holy Quráan, can claim to shiicaa “twelverâ€!

 

Hopefully next time we’ll be able to look into “caqiidatu-dhiin†in light with Book of revelations.

 

 

Brother Viking, I must admit that I made these remarks with the full knowledge, that I was providing you free ammunition to evade the issue at stake, and hence attack me rather than the points that I’m trying to make. Nevertheless, it did had its desired affect, and now I have your attention, I, with all the humility and humbleness I can gather, request you to answer my following questions.

 

IS THE DOCTRINE OF “CAQIIDATUL-BADAA†ISLAMIC? IF SO, WHERE IS YOUR PROOF FROM THE QURÃAN? IF NOT, WHY DON’T YOU DENOUNCE AND CONDEMN THAT CONCEPT AS UN-ISLAMIC AND BASELESS LIES?

 

WHY DON’T YOU GET OFFENDED WHEN SOMEONE IMPLIES THE ALLEGATIONS OF LIES AND EVILNESS ON THE PART OF ABUBAKR ASSIDDIIQ AND CUMAR AL-FAARUUQ, AND EVEN SILENTLY APPROVE, YET, GET IMMIDIATELY OFFENDED WHEN SOMEONE IMPLIES THE SAME ON YOUR PART? (you don’t have to answer this one)

 

WCWW

[Viking]

Shamsudin,

What issue am I "evading"? Where did I claim (or support the claim) that Allah SWT is in any way "deficient" and changes His mind? Or where did you see me support such claims? Who has insulted Abu Bakr and Umar(RA) here?

 

I don't like insulting anyone but surely, my words are nothing compared to the grave accusations and name-calling you are throwing my way. Perhaps it would have been more appropriate for you to first ask me whether I am Shi'a Ithna Cashari before you started throwing stones. Now please, get off your high horse mister, drop the holier than thou attitude and lets start afresh. What say ye?

[RendezVous]

Originally posted by Viking:

Shamsudin,

What issue am I

"evading"? Where did I claim (or support the claim) that Allah SWT is in any way

"deficient"

and

changes His mind

? Or where did you see me support such claims? Who has insulted Abu Bakr and Umar(RA) here?

 

I don't like insulting anyone but surely, my words are nothing compared to the grave accusations and name-calling you are throwing my way. Perhaps it would have been more appropriate for you to first ask me whether I am

Shi'a Ithna Cashari

before you started throwing stones. Now please, get off your high horse mister, drop the

holier than thou

attitude and lets start afresh. What say ye?

**********************************************

 

We already have VIKING who says he doesn't ascribe to ITHNA ASHARIS..SHIA or he doesn't accept the AQEEDAH ...according to details above..This was what we were waiting and discussing all along...I think Bro shamsudin and Nur, you are doing us a favour by bringing this SHIA PEOPLE on board to believe in the 'TRUTH'..before we start even a bigger research on them..Thank you all.Now we are remaining with OG GIRL and her family...

 

Remaining this..

"From what I’ve set out above, if correct (I trust upon you to point out my mistakes, and I expect for those who ascribe to the above mentioned school of thought to ignore these points as usually), we can easily conclude that none of whosoever believes in the sanctity of the Holy Quráan, can claim to shiicaa “twelverâ€!"

 

Bro Shamsudin, This SHIA belief is not 'another

school of thought'..as you implying in your thread..This people are way against ISLAM...

 

We believe in ...CILMU GAYB being ALLAH'S.

 

[Viking]

Miskiin.

[RendezVous]

Originally posted by The Rendezvous:

quote:Originally posted by Viking:

Shamsudin,

What issue am I

"evading"? Where did I claim (or support the claim) that Allah SWT is in any way

"deficient"

and

changes His mind

? Or where did you see me support such claims? Who has insulted Abu Bakr and Umar(RA) here?

 

I don't like insulting anyone but surely, my words are nothing compared to the grave accusations and name-calling you are throwing my way. Perhaps it would have been more appropriate for you to first ask me whether I am

Shi'a Ithna Cashari

before you started throwing stones. Now please, get off your high horse mister, drop the

holier than thou

attitude and lets start afresh. What say ye?

**********************************************

 

We already have VIKING who says he doesn't ascribe to ITHNA ASHARIS..SHIA or he doesn't accept the AQEEDAH ...according to details above..This was what we were waiting and discussing all along...I think Bro shamsudin and Nur, you are doing us a favour by bringing this SHIA PEOPLE on board to believe in the 'TRUTH'..before we start even a bigger research on them..Thank you all.Now we are remaining with OG GIRL and her family...

 

Remaining this..

"From what I’ve set out above, if correct (I trust upon you to point out my mistakes, and I expect for those who ascribe to the above mentioned school of thought to ignore these points as usually), we can easily conclude that none of whosoever believes in the sanctity of the Holy Quráan, can claim to shiicaa “twelverâ€!"

 

Bro Shamsudin, This SHIA belief is not 'another

school of thought'..as you implying in your thread..This people are way against ISLAM...

 

We believe in ...CILMU GAYB being ALLAH'S.

 

I thought Brother Viking...we got you...are you still in SHIA group..and your reasons?

[Viking]

I thought Brother Viking...we got you...are you still in SHIA group..and your reasons?

Rendezvous,

Wewe ni Druze? Ulifunzwa kushuku watu madrasa huko western? Shaka ni kitu mbaya na Qurani Karimu imepiga marufuku kushuku mtu kwa sababu shaka ni dhambi. Ni wapi uliona nikisema kuwa mimi ni shia?

 

Just a few days ago you hardly knew anything about Shi'a and posted questions here and there inquiring about them. I think you should take one step at a time rafiki.

[S.O.S]

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

 

Dear brothers and sisters, here is my take on:

 

CAQIIDATU-DHIIN

 

This creed, for those who are not familiar yet, entails the following beliefs:

- The shiicaa and ahlus-sunnah are not created from the same clay.

- The shiicaa are created from good, pure and clean clay.

- Their enemy (ahlus-sunnah/people of truth) are created from another type of clay, which is bad, evil and cursed as it is the clay of Hell.

- Little bit of their cursed clay was taken and mixed with us, and little bit of our pure clay mixed with theirs.

- Every good deed ahlus-sunnah makes is due to our clay mixed in them.

- Every bad deed we shiicaa make is due the cursed clay of our enemy mixed in us.

- Therefore in Aakhirah, our good, pure and clean clay will be given back to us, together with all its good deeds ahlus-sunnah made due to it.

- And ahlus-sunnah will get their bad, evil and cursed clay that was that was mixed in us, together with all the bad deeds and sins we made, due to their clay mixed in us.

- All good deeds ahlus-sunnah are making now will eventually be for us.

- All the bad deeds and dunuubs we are making now will eventually be for our enemy, the ahlus-sunnah.

 

For reference see: Bixaarul Anwaar, chapter 5, page 247-248. Ibn Babaway’s Sharaaci, page 490-491 and 606-610. Kulayni’s Usuulul Kaafi, chapter 2, page 6.

 

“The issue (of “caqiidatu-dhiin) has numerous narrations from different sources, there is no space to deny its validity and truthfulnessâ€

(Anwaarul Nucmaaniyah, chapter 1, page 293)

 

However, this is one of the most secretive concepts of the shiicaa belief-system, especially by their scholars who spare no effort in hiding it from the ignorant. Nicmatu-Laahil Al-Jazaai’ri who died 1112 H, and was one of their great scholars said:

“If the (ignorant) shiicaa knew of this creed, they would have done the same as their great leaders/scholars, to enjoy life its fullest, because the subsequent punishments for these actions would be burdened on othersâ€

(Anwaarul Nucmaaniyah, chapter 1, page 295)

 

If this is not a licence to engage in all that is forbidden by Allah, than I don’t know what it is. Could this be one of the contributing factors why most Iranians I see in Europe have either become Christians, Atheists, homophiles, drug addicts or HIV/aids positive.

 

There is an emphasis made on the obligatory implementation of “Caqiidatu-Taqqiyyah†by all shiicaa until the so called “second comingâ€, which should be used every time one is asked about their belief in “caqiidatu-Dhiinâ€. In other words lie and say we don’t belief in it, as a religious duty, which brings one closer to God.

 

JUDGEMENT OF THE QURÃAN

 

It is not appropriate for us to discuss the issue of separate creation of man from two different kinds of clay, or even comment on, but these days everyone would believe everything (i.e. OG Girl & Sakina) so lets go through it quickly. A logic mind (non-shiicaa “twelvers†apparently) would want to know; how many Adams were there? From what clay were the people of pre-shiicaa movements made of? Can a non-shiicaa become one? If so, what about the cursed clay one is made of? We do not find in the Quráan anything that supports that fallacy. Allah told us:

 

“We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape;†(suuratul-Xijr 26)

 

“Behold! Thy Lord said to the angels: “I am about to create man, from sounding clay from mud moulded into shape:†(suuratul-Xijr 28)

 

In fact, the arrogance claim that one is created from a better substance than others, therefore should be privileged in status is nothing new at all. Remember when Ibliis said:

“I am not one to prostrate myself to man, whom Thou didst create from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape.†(suuratul-Xijr 33) And “When Allah said: “What prevented you from prostrating when I commanded thee?†He said: “I am better than he: Thou didst create me from fire, and him from clay†(suuratul- Acraaf 12)

 

Are all actions in this world useless, as the shiicaa claim, and all rewards in the hereafter based on (racial?) clay family? If that is the case why have we been created? Why are on earth? Why not straight to Hell or Heaven? This is how the Quráan ridicules their points!

 

“He who has created death and life, that He might test you which of you is best in conduct.†(suuratul-Mulk 2)

 

“We shall surely try you until we know that of you struggle and are patient.†(suuratul-Muxammad 31)

 

“Do you think you could enter Paradise without God establishing who of you strive hard and who are patient.†(suuratul-Cimraan 142)

 

“Go forth, light or heavy! Struggle hard in Allah’s way with your possessions and your selves, this is good for you if you but knew it.†(suuratul-Baqarah 218)

 

“(That) no bearer shall bear the burden of another, and that nothing shall be accounted to man but what he has striven for.†(suuratul-Najm 38-39)

 

“Whoever works righteousness benefits his own soul; whoever works evil, it is against his own soul: nor is thy Lord ever unjust (in the least) to His servants.†(suuratul-Fusilat 46)

 

“On no soul do We place a burden greater than it can bear: before Us is record which clearly speaks the truth. They will never be wronged.†(suuratul-Mu’minuun 62)

 

There is also within their belief-system, the idea that all people in the hereafter will be sorted in two groups, (a) the people of good clay (shiicaa) and (b) the people of bad clay (ahlus-sunnah). However, this concept wasn’t thoroughly thought through, as it is evident with some amazing implications. Such as, what about the non-shiicaa/ahlus-sunnah peoples, the Christians, Jews, Atheists, Pagans and all other ancient peoples before the advent of shiicaa doctrines? Well, their ********* is here very obvious, butt still, below are the Quránic verses showing the correct categorisation and how just Allah deals with his slaves. So read carefully and reflect on them.

 

“On that Day will men proceed in groups sorted out, to be shown the Deeds that they (had done). Then shall anyone who has done an atom’s weight of good, see it! And anyone who has done an atom’s weight of evil, shall see it.†(suuratul-Zulzilat 6-8)

 

(a) “Then (there will be) the Companions of the Right Hand;- what will be the Companions of the Right Hand? (b) And the Companions of the Left Hand,- what will be the Companions of the Left Hand! © And the Foremost (in Faith) will be Formost (in the Hereafter).†(suuratul-Waaqicah 8-10)

 

“On the day We shall raise from all Peoples a witness against them, from amongst themselves: And We shall bring thee as a witness against these (thy people): and We have sent down to thee the Book explaining all things, a Guide, a Mercy, and Glad Tidings to Muslims.†(suuratul-Naxl 89)

 

“What is with you must vanish: what is with Allah will endure. And We will certainly bestow, on those who patiently persevere, their reward according to the best of their actions. Whoever works righteousness, man or woman, and has Faith, verily, to him will We give a life that is good and pure, and We will bestow on such their reward according to the best of their actions.†(suuratul-Naxl 96-97)

 

“On the Day every soul will come up pleading for itself, and every soul will be recompensed (fully) for all its actions, and none will be unjustly dealt with.†(suuratul-Naxl 111)

 

“If any does good, the reward to him is better than his deed; but if any does evil, the doers of evil are only punished (to the extent) of their deeds.†(suuratul-Qasas 84)

 

“Then those whose balance (of good deeds) is heavy,- they will be successful. But those whose balance is light, will be those who have lost their souls, in Hell will they abide.†(suuratul-Mu’minuun 102-103)

 

“That Day shall ye be brought to judgement: not an act of yours that ye hide will be hidden. Then he that will be given his Record in his right hand will say: “Ah here! Read ye my Record! “I did really think that my Account would (one Day) reach me!†And he will be in a life of Bliss. (suuratul-Xaaq 18-21)

 

“And he that will be given his Record in his left hand, will say: “Ah! Would that my Record had not been given to me! “And that I had never realised how my Account (stoos)! “Ah! Would that (Death) had made an end of me!†(suuratulXaaq 25-27)

 

“Then he who is given his record in his right hand, soon will his account be taken by an easy reckoning,†(suuratul-Inshiqaaq 7-8)

 

“But he who is given his Record behind his back,- soon will he cry for Perdition, and he will enter a Blazing Fire.†(suuratul-Inshiqaaq 10-12)

 

“The Day that the enemies of Allah will be gathered together to the Fire, they will be marched in ranks. At length, when they reach the (Fire), their hearing, their sight, and their skins will bear witness against them, ss to (all) their deeds. They will say to their skins: “why bear ye witness against us?†They will say: “Allah hath given us speech,- (He) Who giveth speech to everything: He created you for the first time, and unto Him were ye to return. “Ye did not seek to hide yourselves, lest your hearing, your sight, and your skins should bear witness against you! But ye did think that Allah knew not many of the things that ye used to do! “But this thought of yours which ye did entertain concerning your Lord, hath brought you to destruction, and (now) have ye become of those utterly lost!†If, then, they have patience, the Fire will be a Home for them! And if they beg for pardon, their suit shall not be granted.†(suuratul-Fusilat 19-24)

 

Hope fully we can discuss their “Caqiidatu-Takfiirus-Saxaabah†next time if Allah allows us, and I sincerely apologies for all my shortcomings and mistakes I’ve made.

 

Brother Viking, that would be a good idea, and I’m all for it.

 

QUESTION:

 

Miss OG Girl,

How is it for a Somali person, whose entire tribe he/she belongs to are almost all of them ahlus-sunnah, become a shiicaa? What about the cursed clay then? Shall we not show little respect for science?

 

WCWW

[Nur]

Viking Bro.

 

You write:

 

kushuku mtu kwa sababu shaka ni dhambi. Ni wapi uliona nikisema kuwa mimi ni shia?

 

 

That is so true, saaxiib, Allah SWT says, " Inna bacdha al Dhanni Ithm", but to in the Sunnah we have lessons from aProphet Muhammad SAWS that qualify this commandment:

 

It was reported that the prophet Muhammad SAWS was standing with his wife one night when a conpanion passed by them, the companion after noycing the couple, avoided them and walked away hurriedly. The Prophet SAWS then called the companion and told him, this is my wife, the companion exclaimed that he would not think bad about the Messenger of Allah, and the Prophet SAWS told him that the Devil runs in human blodd, and can influence their thinking.

 

Lessons learned:

 

1. Not to pose in adubious way, always be transparent, say what you mean and mean what you say, clearnly mark where you stand on issues.

 

In my last question to you, I saked you this question:

 

 

If indeed thesed beliefs are found to be true in the Shia Madhab, do you think with your understanding of Islam that it can be a fourth Madhab? or part of Islam?

 

 

The Question:

 

1. Given the material presented WAS FOUND TO BE TRUE an assumption,

 

2. Given your understanding of Islam

 

3. Can the Shia be a fourth Mad-hab? or part of islam?

 

 

Your answer was:

 

 

They are not infallible. I agree with your logic bro, but do you think that the research you have done is more than what the scholars of Al-Azhar have done from 1959 and beyond? Don't you think that they went deeper into Shi'a doctrines than you did? Some Muslims (belonging to the four madhabs) view Sufis as heretics while others don't, isn't it simply the same case here too?

 

You have dodged my question, My question clearly assumed GIVEN THE RESEARCH WAS FOUND TO BE RIGHT, WHERE DO YOU STAND OF THEIR CLAIM TO BE A FOURTH MAD_HAB.

 

Then you went on:

 

We are all responsible for the choices we make in the end but we (people of SOL) aren't scholars and rely a lot of the research done by them. What we aim for in the end is to find out the truth.

 

Which is still avoiding a clearly presented question, how can we find the truth if we are not transparent?

 

Brother,

 

I am still waiting an answer for my question:

 

First Answer: YES, They can still be a 4th Mad-Hab and part of Islam

 

Second Answer: No, They can not be a 4th Mad-hab nor part of Islam

 

Third Answer: I dont know enough about Islam to judge them.

 

 

I believe, being clear on our discussion, will facilitate and help understanding by reducing ill thinking of each other.

 

 

Ndugu Yako.

 

Nur

[OG_Girl]

Miss OG Girl,

How is it for a Somali person, whose entire tribe he/she belongs to are almost all of them ahlus-sunnah, become a shiicaa?

I don't know what's your tribe to do with what you believe, and what being Somali or other nationalities to do with that!! My grandpa became a shia while he was student in Al-Azhar...means he knew what he was doing.

 

What about the cursed clay then? Shall we not show little respect for science?

I'm not quite sure what did I say reference to this point here! Can you kindly explain your point.Thanks

 

I can see there is a lot of misunderstanding about Shia here. Instead quoting books why you don't study Shiasim. For sure you would know that we don't call our 4 books of Hadeths "Sahihs" simply because we don't believe any Book other than Quran can be 100% Sahih. that AL-kulani himself was less concerned about the narrators . Alkafi is a collection...He collected them, he never said was sahih or authorised.I also wish if we filtred ahadeths so ordinary Shia would know what to follow because it's dangrous to pick and choose. Unfortunety we don't have a system to follow. All they've done was to collect them.

 

You think I'm a shia with my eyes closed? I can say with confidence I have faith in whatever I believe. Because the Prophet told us to follow the Ahlulbeyt ,I am not going to assume I can accept any/and all shia ahadiths relating to aqaed...Simply Shia Scholers themselves can't prove these are exactly from Imams.As a shia we got upper hand because we follow Ahlulbeyt but we need to be objective too.I ask questions to gain knowledge.

 

And please spare me propaganda materials be it Sunni or shia. I have been learning Sunni feqh for a long time,that has at least taught me to be unbiased.Propaganda leads to bias.

 

If any one wants the whole book of Alkafi by Alkulaini;here it is if you speak Arabic.

 

الشيخ الكليني

 

 

Salam