I am also a Shia too!

[RendezVous]

Originally posted by Aristote:

Dear Rendez-vous, let's not be romantic or idealistic.

 

Therefore, let's not be romantic inshaa Allaah,

 

Are you saying am off topic and introduced Romantic Thrills here.I was just helping your points out in a more simpler English.

 

ARISTOTE:

What do u know about SHIA aqeedah..Does that aqeedah has anything to do with ISLAM?

[sweet_gal]

OHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! I like this topic, I wrote a whole article about it PLZ the people who are backing shia and are shia......Give me you're two scent on it.................. it's in Islam section<<<<<<<<<< I am waiting

[RendezVous]

Here is a summary of the Shia aqeedah, the sources are all from Shia books:

 

 

Highlights of the Beliefs ( Aqaa'ed) of Shia Ithna Asheriyah.

 

 

1. The Imam is the Lord who dwells on earth.

It was reported that Ali RAA said " I am the Rabb ( Lord) who dwells on earth " source; Mir'aatul Anwaar wa mishkaatul Asraar, page 59

The Shia Sheikh Al Ayaashi interpreting the verse " Wa laa yushriku fii xukmihi axadaa" " He does not share his authority (judgement) with anyone" Ayaashi says, it means that no one should share the Caliphate with Ali.

 

 

 

2. Fatima and Ali Reason Of Creation :

A contemporary Shia Scholar in Sheikh Hussein Feheid Al Ahsaa'ey, says " Ali RAA is the face of Allah SWT" he also says Allah said " O Mohammad, if it was not for you, I would not have created the universe, and if it was not for Ali I would not have created you, and if it was not for Fatima, I would not have created both of you"

 

3. Affairs of Present Life on Earth and the Hereafter are in the hands of the Imaam . Source Al Kuleiny, Section, that Earth belongs to the Imaam, page 407 -410

 

4. Natural phenomena like Thunder and lightening belongs to the Imaams .

It was reported that Samacah Min Mehran that he said that " I was Abi Abdallah, then the sky thundered,, thenAbi Abdallah said, it is Ali ordering it " Source Bihar ul Anwaar, Majlisi Volume 27 page 33

 

5. Extraordinary powers of Ali RAA : It was reported that Ali RAA used to Rideclouds. A concept all Shia sects share, Biharul Anwar, Majlisi Volume 27 page 34. Also Ali is reported saying " I am the eye of Allah on earth, I am the Light of Allkah that is never exitinguished, I am the proof of Allah against servants"

 

6. The Imaam holds the keys to the Unknown ( Al Ghaib) Source Al Kaafi, Kuleiny, Voulme 1 page 258, Section titled " The Imaams know when they die, and they never die without their consent"

 

7. Imaams know what was and would happen in the future and nothing is hidden from them Al Kaafi, Kuleiny, Volume 1 page 260

 

8. It was reported (Falsly) that Al Saadiq said " Wallahi we (imams) are given the knowledge of the ancients and the future generations, he was asked " Do you have access to the unknown? the imaam responded " we know what everyman and woman will beget as decendants" Source Bihar ul Anwaar, Majlisi Volume 26 page 27 - 28

 

9. Allah reveals revelations after the death of prophet Muhammad on the Imaams via angel Gabriel . The Imam Muhammad Al Saffar ( Died 290 AH) says " An angel even greater and more knowledgeable than gabriel comes down with revelations to the Imaams" also see source Asxaabul Imaam Al Macsuum, page 111

 

10. ALI Talks To Allah : Al Saffar also reported in the Basaa'er Al darajaat Al Kubraa in ten volume proofs of the continuity of revelations on Shia Imaams, Ali Talked to Allah SWT. That he saw Gabriel, Ten stories volume 8, section 16 page 430.

 

11. Al Saffar also reports : It was reported that Humran ibn Acyun reported from Abu Abdullah Aleyhi Salaam, " I said, O Imaam, I heard that Ali Talked to Allah Aleyhi Salaam " The imaam said " Yes indeed, they talked in Taif Gabriel came down in their middle" Source Basa'r Al Darajaat, Section 8-16, page 430, Printed in Iran

 

12. Al Saffar alos reports in 13 reports that the Holy spirit ( Ruuxul Qudus) comes down on the imaams, the imaam said " We are increased knowledge at night, because if we did not have revealtions, our knwledge would run out" source Basaa'er ul Darajaat, Section 7, volume, 15. page 252

 

13. Angel Gabriel, JIBREEL, is with Imaams always : Kuleiny explaing a verse " And thus do we reveal to you a spirit form on authority" Kuleiny said the Imaam said " since Gabriel came down, he never left, he is with us imaams" Source Kuleiny Al Kaafi, Volume 1 page 173

 

13. Angels come down on earth on the night of power to tell the Imaams about the Qader and all that would happen the following year. Sources Al Kafi , Kuleiny Volume 1 page 261 and Al Fusuul al Muhimmah fii usuul al a'immah, Volume 94 page 145.

 

14. Divine Light penetrated Ali. Source Al Kafi by Kuleiny Volume 1 page 440

 

15. The Imams are shown our deeds avery day and night Source Al Kafi, Kuleiny Volume 1 page 219

 

 

Most of the above beliefs were developed during the shorter absence of the Mahdi, Muhammad Ibn Hassan Al Askari, who we have mentioned briefly before although many fundemental changes that represent a departure from the original beliefs of Muslims were attributed to him through his handlers who claim that they had an access to this disappearing Imaam for an enduring 65 years. Let us look at the belief of the Shia about this imaam.

 

 

Is this true...?

[Kafka on the Shore]

Peace Rendez-Vous,

 

To answer your question, I didn't say that you went off topic brother. I totally understood your point when you said something to the effect of "there is no sunnism or shiism or salafism or sufism." But the statement itself is Romantic (i.e. it's an idealistic view of the Islamic situation today, and by Romantic, I mean idealistic... I didn't mean that you were introducing Romantic thrills akhi). All I said is that the circumstance we're currently in isn't a good one, we are indeed divided (as much as we may deny it). I was only calling all of you (assuming that you're NOT uneducated masses that lack critical thought) to discuss your differences in a more civilized, Islamic fashion. Remember that the Shiites claim they're Muslim, and so do we (ahlus-sunnah), and so do even the Ahmadis (Qadianis). I'm just saying let's set our emotions aside, recognize the fact that we're all different (i.e. we're not united, although we are supposed to be), and discuss our differences through diligent discussions as opposed to slander matches (and if you encounter ignorant people, simply avoid them, don't waste your breath on them). I don't know how many times I've said this, and it's only a simple message stored at the back of everyone's mind. O my dear bretheren, let's be more civilized.

 

Akhi Rendez-vous, although I'm not a scholar, I've read (and consequently) know a great deal about the Shiite aqeedah. Truthfully speaking, there are some undesirable aspects to their aqeedah, but we must ultimately realize that we (being from ahlus-sunnah) already have a bias against their aqeedah. The same can also be said about them (they have a bias against our aqeedah too). I've been discussing the shia vs. sunni issue with a shiite friend of mine, for two years, and it was a very constructive and objective discussion, I assure you. But after two years of him presenting me with evidence (and vice versa), we both OBJECTIVELY came to the conclusion that this is an issue that goes all the back to the times of the sahaabah, and therefore people like he and I cannot undertake such a complex discussion unless and until we've become complete scholars (i.e. able to assess ahaadeeth, know the principle of tafseer, etc...).

 

(From now on, I'll be addressing the general you, and I don't intend to single you out brother Rendez-vous. And the advice I'm giving everyone here also applies to me, as I try to be nothing more than a humble servant of Allaah SWT). The shia vs. sunni issue isn't to be likened with other intra-sunni issues such as: how long should one's beard be? Or when does your wudhu break? These issues are a bit easier to assess by us because we share approximately the same hadith appraisal system (i.e. we all accept Bukhai, Muslim, Shawkaani, Ibn Khuzaimah, etc... because we're "sunni").

 

But debating with shiites is especially difficult (as objective as they may be) because their hadith system isn't as organized and developped as that of the ahlus-sunnah. They have usuul al-kaafi, for instance, and when you try to use ahaadeeth from their ahaadeeth books to disprove their aqeedah, they say: "Unlike you sunnis, we don't have a "sahiih" hadith book." It seems like they're hiding behind their underdevelopped hadith system, but it would be unfair to categorically make such a conclusion (because only Allaah knows what's in their hearts).

 

For anyone who's not a shiite to prove the shiite aqeedah wrong, it would simply be a bit too subjective to do so from the sunni perspective. It would be like proving the bible wrong using the Quran, the Christian would tell you "I don't believe in the Quran, so why are you even bothering proving my holy bible wrong with something I don't even believe in?" I'm not saying that proving the shiites wrong can't be done, but it CAN ONLY be done if you yourselves become scholars. And if you are in a situation like myself (i.e. where I'm not in the position of become a scholar anytime soon), then we follow our scholars' opinions regarding the shiites (and the same holds for the shiites). And once we do that, what do we find? We find that many (not all) scholars from both sides have denounced each other as heretics and apostates. We have no choice but to either follow our scholars or remain silent, and if you don't want to do either, then AT LEAST don't blindly slander the shiites (or anyone else for that matter) blindly. No matter how deviant that person (who you're slandering) might be, they will never accept your advice because of the way you're going about it. Be kind, and follow the Quran's advice on how to make da'wah to everyone, including the shiites (with whom we share many things in common compared to the Christian, Hindu, and the Jewish peoples).

 

I'm sorry for the lengthy reply, but I didn't want to post my subjective view of the shiites and disintegrate their adqeedah in a vicious manner. I'm from the ahlus-sunnah, and thus my creed is very distinct from theirs, but I don't need to manifest it so as to create animosity between us. I realize (and they should too) that we're different in many regards, and similar in other regards. The reason why I refrain from fueling heated debates is because I believe we have (shiites and sunnis alike) a common foe: those who want to demean the Quran and render it a meaningless book to be shelved and dusted rather than actually applying it. I will also call on you to remember that the enemies of Islaam usually make no distinction between sunni and shia: they see veiled women, bearded men, praying and fasting people. I don't mean to be idealistic here, this is the harsh reality. So let's "agree to disagree" on these heated issues, and ONLY discuss them in a scholarly manner (and I've barely seen anyone approaching these issues in a sensible manner except for the gifted few). Instead, let's be creative and discuss things such as how we can eradicate the evils in our houses, how to reach the hearts of our family members (many of whom aren't strictly adhering the Quran and Sunnah), how to purify ourselves, and most importantly: how to resolve our differences and unite under one banner. We all know the root cause of these problems is lack of concrete knowledge; so let's bring knowledge and wisdom back. Unless and until we do that, you will devour yourselves to death (this is exactly what's happening in the Muslim world) and no good will come out of it (i.e. remember that slander matches, which are prevalant here, won't do any good at all).

 

I don't want to repeat the same thing over and over as you're all probably tired of it, but I hope you understand the importance of the message I try to convey. Lastly, I want to again remind you that this advice applies to all of us, including myself (we're servants of the most merciful).

 

Wassalaamu calaykum

[Kafka on the Shore]

Assalaamu calaykum:

 

Brother Rendez-vous, I appreciate your last post, it was very informative indeed. I must say this is surprising though, my shiite friend and I have never discussed these tenets (he would view many of the things you listed as utter shirk; we discussed more about the definition of ahlul-bayt). And these tenets also clearly clash with our aqeedah as well, but I really don't know how you'll be able to make a stubborn (and ignorant) shia abandon these beliefs (and I'm not referring to you OC_Girl), except that you would say "Lakum diinukum wa liya diin." Keep up the good work akhee.

 

Fii amaanillaah

[RendezVous]

Be straight...^^^^do u accept those AQEEDAH....OG girl?

 

You have never rejected those Aqeedah...you keep passing near them..

[RendezVous]

Originally posted by The Flipmode..:

Be straight...^^^^do u accept those AQEEDAH....OG girl?

 

You have never rejected those Aqeedah...you keep passing near them..

I am asking the second time, OG GIRL, do u in any way accept the shia aqeedah which was posted by a brother online.It really conflicts with the mainstream ISLAM and thus we need your opinion as a SHIA.If you keep on arguing about other things while this is the 'basis'..or the Aqeedah we are talking about..I am sure you don't want to state that you a 'FINE' shia.

 

By the way as you stated, you don't believe in Shia totally.So what are you OG GIRL? Can other Shias help her?

[Abdi2005]

Og_girl this is arabic website for you its about people who left shiism http://www.wylsh.com/

[bint abee saeed]

The correct way to do it, is read the aqa'id of both sides, and history.

 

OG please fear Allaah. whose aqeedah do we read? your scholars wrote books and their aqeedah has been outlined. we have the quran, and the aqeedah is outlined there too, and it contradicts what your scholars wrote in their books. we know the history of shia, its a sect that was established well after the death of last messenger to be sent to mandkind.

 

you said you do not take everything in shia books. sometimes you tell us read the shia books if we want truth and sometimes you say 'wait i will tell you what i believe'.

 

sister either you do not know why you are shia and you're simply blind following. or there is something preventing you from openly denying shism.

 

please og girl, fear Allaah and follow His revelation. do you really think shism is the religion Allaah revealed upon Muhammad and that it is the religion Allaah is pleased with?

[RendezVous]

^^^^It was good to note there are no Shias in Somalia still.I mean somalia ain't listed as having some Shias...

 

[RendezVous]

For all Shias..please treat this as an experience rather than 'forcing' you to accept the TRUTH.

 

http://www.allaahuakbar.net/shiites/how_to_approach_the_shia_brother.htm

 

will help a lot pending some review from my Research centre.

[Haddad]

Originally posted by Abdi2005:

...about people who left shiism

http://www.wylsh.com/

Quite an interesting site. From a preliminary browsing, I have for the first time learned the term التطبير (though I have seen the action on TV). I could never grasp the reason why our Shia brothers/sisters would cut themselves. I mean, this doesn't make a sense. I don't know how widespread the practice is, but hope they could abandon it altogether.

 

This link from the site asks a good question about 500 students in a school, how 496 of them have failed, and only 4 succeeded.

[RendezVous]

^^^^^Indeed ignorence is bliss!

So U said OG GIRL...we got big fish to fight like the ones who spread ANTI-ISLAM messages and websites that we need to put records straight for them

 

did u see this website

 

http://discover.islamway.com/bindex.php?section=converts

 

we need more and not Shia/Sunni relations.. There is a clear path there.. and OG GIRL understand

[Kashafa]

To truly believe in Allah (swt) to truly understand the martyrdom of Imam Hussain then you only need to look deep within your heart the pain will be there without the showcasing of blood

The tragedy of Karb'alaa is a lesson for all of us. Lessons of betrayel (killed by the same people who swore oaths of fealty to him), tyranny and barbarity ( by the Yazidi army), and courage and nobility in the face of death ( by Imam Hussein and his companions)

 

That said, we shouldn't romanticise history or engage in "Ghu'low": Over-glorification of human beings, using their piety and/or suffering to give them an super-human status.

 

Is there a difference between the martyrdom of Imam Hussain(R.A), and say, the martyrdom of a bare-foot, tatter-clothed 'unknown' Sa7aabi(R.A.) fighting for Allah's(S.W.T.) cause in the frontiers of Persia/Rome/Africa ? or the martyrdom of Ibn Zubair(R.A.), killed by Hajjaj's army in the sanctuary of the Ka'bah ?

 

Do you have a few 'extra' more bonus points in your Iman and Islam, just because you have the Prophet's(P.B.U.H) blood running through your veins ? That would make the current Jordanian regime men of honour, instead of the CIA stools they really are.

 

As the Prophet(P.B.U.H) told his daughter Fatima, and his Aunt Safiya and his Uncle Abbas: "I cannot save you from God’s Punishment."

 

P.S. OG, those "Mutaa'wa" jokes never stop do they, huh. What's wrong with her washing a car ?

[Haddad]

Originally posted by OG_Girl:

I am not a fan of any of these practices..

So, a Shia has to be a fan of التطبير in order to practice it? You have to like or admire the act of cutting yourself in order to do it? No belief in it required?

To truly believe in Allah (swt) to truly understand the martyrdom of Imam Hussain then you only need to look deep within your heart the pain will be there without the showcasing of blood.

I don't see what understanding the martyrdom of Imam Hussain has to do with belief in Allah. The two aren't interconnected.