I am also a Shia too!

[RendezVous]

Originally posted by OG_Girl:

Bint..what Aqeeda? Yes I 'm Shia ethna-Asharey(12 Imams).

 

Salafi, Since you believe we aren't muslims. What we are debating here?To prove that I'm a muslim and register in your book of who is muslim and who he is not?If you have prove that we'ren't muslims Good for you. I thank God that is your only Wahabis opinion.

 

PS:Bent, My Aqeeda is Islam. Allah can change his mind but does he? I don't know!! You even want to control Allah's rights?

 

Can you just wait for Kaberokom(Nur)..lol.

 

Salam

Am sorry to note that OG GIRL calls anyone not in the Shia path, a salafi or a wahabi..My freind it has been shown that you SHIA are dwelling on part time issues..meaning You don't want to be straight forward with issues.Someone simply posted the AQEEDAH of SHIAS ITHNA ASHARI...and asked do u accept this is your Aqeedah..?you were supposed to answer YES OR NO...so that someone can ask you another question or help you out.Now inserting issues like KABERKOMI...or KHOMEINI...or other stories..or even talking about 4year kid with 'divine 'powers to counsel the WHOLE MUSLIM NATION...this is ridiculous..even the prophet himself who was the first AHLUL BAYT was given the religion @40years..How come a small kid..@4 years starts preaching the WHOLE MUSLIM NATION...no wonder you don't even accept your own aqeedah...

 

BE STRAIGHT....we ain't here for small timers..

 

Thank you..

[Abdi2005]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

quote:Originally posted by Abdi2005:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Viking:

Nur,

Do you think that the head scholar of Al-Azhar erred when a fatwa was announced in 1959 (which is unchanged till today) saying that it is allowed for a Muslim to be a follower of the Ja'fari madhab (Ithna Cashariyyah/Shi'a al-Cimaamiyah) ? Do you think that Sheikh Maxmud Shaltoot and all those who came after him are in the wrong?

This fatwa is not of any value. This was made in time of arab nationalism and it was politically motivated fatwa. Al-azhar is not longer as it was before, we remember the words of al-tantawi the head of al-azhar about hijab ban in France. If al-azhar consider shiism it be legitimate madhab why don't they teach jafari madhab in al-azhar? its hypocrisy. Its really weird that after 1000year this is the best recognition shia hav to clime they are fifth madhab. What happened to our great scholars of islam? did any one of them recognized jafari madhab?

NO

 

All the debate about shiism among our scholar have not been whether to consider them fifth madhab or not but whether they are muslims or not and thats the plane fact if you study the works of our classical scholars.

And the conclusion, in spite of all the waffle, is that they ARE Muslim. Or else, why would our ardent Sunni scholars and brothers allow these non-Muslims to set feet in Mecca?

 

 

Some discussions are nauseatingly redundant and cause nothing but division and fetna. This is one of those discussions.

 

It’s one and only aim is to prove that the Shia are deviants! Well, maybe they are. Maybe the Saudi government (and all the Muftis there) only allow the Shia to do the pilgrimage out of political pressure...

I did not clime the conclusion was they are kaffir. I only wanted to emphasis to brother Viking that sens the debate about shiism have always been "are they kafir or extrem deviant" it is far fetched to clime that they are considered to be fifth madhab, something shia always have dreamed about.

[bint abee saeed]

quote og

PS:Bent, My Aqeeda is Islam. Allah can change his mind but does he? I don't know!! You even want to control Allah's rights?

 

subhannallah, nothing i said implied this. i said its in the shia books that Allaah frequently changes His mind.

and so this implies that Allaah, How perfect and Wise HE is, is indecisive.

that's not my aqeedah, thats the aqeedah of ithna ashariyyah.

 

sister save yourself from an opressive aqeedah. read the quran and ponder over it. your imaams do not control what is in the heavens and the earth, and they do not posses the knowledge Allaah kept for Himself, and they are definitely not 'the first, the last, the most near and the appearant'. they were created by Allaah, and Allaah took their souls away Because He owns and controls everything in the heavens and earth. Just read the Quran and follow it. then say: my aqeedah is islam. ithana ashariyah aqeedah is not the aqeedah of Adam, Nuh, Sulayman, Ibrahim, Mossa, Yusuf, Lut, Ya'qub, Isa bin Maryam, and for sure not Muhammad's (May salams been upon them all).

 

og, sis, i really dont think salafi da'wah was implying that you yourself are kafir. Rather, we hope that you and the others on sol realise the seriousness and the danger of the aqeedah of the shia as outlined by their scholars.

 

do u know why you are shia? why do u believe that the imaams share Allaah's rubbubiyyah (lordship)? and that they posses powers only Allaah has. the fitra (natural inclination) can't except this. you really think Allaah is pleased that you give the rights He has upon you to a group of men He created by Himself from nothing?

why are u shia?? do u really know? (since none of u have admitted that you agree and believe in what your scholars preach)

[xiinfaniin]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

 

Some discussions are nauseatingly redundant and cause nothing but division and fetna. This is one of those discussions.

 

Nauseatingly redundant indeed

[Abdi2005]

I think we should leave Og alone. She knows little about shiism she is an average girl who only follows the deen of hear parents and we shouldn't be hard on hear. I pray to Allah that he guides hear to ahlul-sunnah the light and way.

 

A proverb says every tree is known by its fruit. 1400year Islamic history shows that the fruit of shiism is nothing but the shadow to that of ahlul-sunnah.

 

Even when it comes to islamic science to this day shia did not classify one single Hadith. The farthest they came was when there scholar said that half of al-kafi is unauthentic, but which half? they are working on that.

[Viking]

Mutakalim has posted an article about Shi'ism and intends to talk about it extensively. Why don't those who have questions start by reading the post and start the discussion from the beginning (from the issue of the Caliphate) instead of using Nur's quotes as evidence?

 

If OG was (hypothetically) to say that all the quotes are fabricated, none of you (Rendezvous, Salafi, bint et al.) could prove her wrong because you don't have al-Kuleiny's works lying on the shelf.

 

 

Abdi2005,

If the fatwas from Al-Azhar are not of any "value", which scholars (institutions) do you suggest the contemporary Muslims look to?

[Nur]

Dear OG Girl

 

You write:

 

Nur, for last time let me trust you and pretend that your intentions are good ..lol. I think we are getting some where!!

 

Thanks my dear sister, I pray that Allah guides us all the right path, amin

 

 

You write:

 

 

These people are dead but they lefta lot of mess' ignorent people or people with agenda to sing around!!.

 

 

Agreed! so let us sort out the mess, with cool heads.

 

 

You writer

 

 

So tell me which sardab we made up our Al-kafi? Are our scholers prostitutes to hide in the sardabs?I don't understand your logic brother.

 

 

According to the Shia ithna asheria Madhab, which you said you belong to,the last of the 12 Imaams, Muhammad Ibn Hassan Al Askari .

is said to have disappeared at age 4, he is said to have fell in a ditch ( sirdaab ) which to this date is visited by Shia in a mosque in IRAQ, it is a holy place and thus a MAZAR where the faithfuls prayers are answered by the missing Imaam, the little boy Imaam, was not seen after that, but two scholars began acting as the agents who transmit orders frome the absent boy Imaam for the next 65 years, the majority of the Shia hadeeths to this date are those transmitted thorugh the nissing boy imaam in whi acidentally fell in the ditch ( Sirdaab) . After 65 years, a final letter came in through onw of the scholars which read that the missing imaam had gone into the longer absence, and they should not believe in any more tranmissions from anyone ( More likely, the two scholars got older, and they did not want anyone else to play the role again ) He is expected to return as the Mahdi who will uphold justice on earth.

 

 

You write:

 

So tell me what about our Aqeedah? what you did not like it? Maybe you are just having a hard time to understand the context! Well maybe I could help you. Take a deep breath and start from ABC....

 

 

Here is a summary of the Shia aqeedah, the sources are in my thread, all from Shia books:

 

 

Highlights of the Beliefs ( Aqaa'ed) of Shia Ithna Asheriyah.

 

 

1. The Imam is the Lord who dwells on earth.

 

It was reported that Ali RAA said " I am the Rabb ( Lord) who dwells on earth " source; Mir'aatul Anwaar wa mishkaatul Asraar, page 59

The Shia Sheikh Al Ayaashi interpreting the verse " Wa laa yushriku fii xukmihi axadaa" " He does not share his authority (judgement) with anyone" Ayaashi says, it means that no one should share the Caliphate with Ali.

 

 

2. Fatima and Ali Reason Of Creation :

 

A contemporary Shia Scholar in Sheikh Hussein Feheid Al Ahsaa'ey, says " Ali RAA is the face of Allah SWT" he also says Allah said " O Mohammad, if it was not for you, I would not have created the universe, and if it was not for Ali I would not have created you, and if it was not for Fatima, I would not have created both of you"

 

3. Affairs of Present Life on Earth and the Hereafter are in the hands of the Imaam . Source Al Kuleiny, Section, that Earth belongs to the Imaam, page 407 -410

 

4. Natural phenomena like Thunder and lightening belongs to the Imaams .

 

It was reported that Samacah Min Mehran that he said that " I was Abi Abdallah, then the sky thundered,, thenAbi Abdallah said, it is Ali ordering it " Source Bihar ul Anwaar, Majlisi Volume 27 page 33

 

5. Extraordinary powers of Ali RAA : It was reported that Ali RAA used to Rideclouds. A concept all Shia sects share, Biharul Anwar, Majlisi Volume 27 page 34. Also Ali is reported saying " I am the eye of Allah on earth, I am the Light of Allkah that is never exitinguished, I am the proof of Allah against servants"

 

6. The Imaam holds the keys to the Unknown ( Al Ghaib) Source Al Kaafi, Kuleiny, Voulme 1 page 258, Section titled " The Imaams know when they die, and they never die without their consent"

 

7. Imaams know what was and would happen in the future and nothing is hidden from them Al Kaafi, Kuleiny, Volume 1 page 260

 

8. It was reported (Falsly) that Al Saadiq said " Wallahi we (imams) are given the knowledge of the ancients and the future generations, he was asked " Do you have access to the unknown? the imaam responded " we know what everyman and woman will beget as decendants" Source Bihar ul Anwaar, Majlisi Volume 26 page 27 - 28

 

9. Allah reveals revelations after the death of prophet Muhammad on the Imaams via angel Gabriel . The Imam Muhammad Al Saffar ( Died 290 AH) says " An angel even greater and more knowledgeable than gabriel comes down with revelations to the Imaams" also see source Asxaabul Imaam Al Macsuum, page 111

 

10. ALI Talks To Allah : Al Saffar also reported in the Basaa'er Al darajaat Al Kubraa in ten volume proofs of the continuity of revelations on Shia Imaams, Ali Talked to Allah SWT. That he saw Gabriel, Ten stories volume 8, section 16 page 430.

 

11. Al Saffar also reports : It was reported that Humran ibn Acyun reported from Abu Abdullah Aleyhi Salaam, " I said, O Imaam, I heard that Ali Talked to Allah Aleyhi Salaam " The imaam said " Yes indeed, they talked in Taif Gabriel came down in their middle" Source Basa'r Al Darajaat, Section 8-16, page 430, Printed in Iran

 

12. Al Saffar alos reports in 13 reports that the Holy spirit ( Ruuxul Qudus) comes down on the imaams, the imaam said " We are increased knowledge at night, because if we did not have revealtions, our knwledge would run out" source Basaa'er ul Darajaat, Section 7, volume, 15. page 252

 

13. Angel Gabriel, JIBREEL, is with Imaams always : Kuleiny explaing a verse " And thus do we reveal to you a spirit form on authority" Kuleiny said the Imaam said " since Gabriel came down, he never left, he is with us imaams" Source Kuleiny Al Kaafi, Volume 1 page 173

 

13. Angels come down on earth on the night of power to tell the Imaams about the Qader and all that would happen the following year. Sources Al Kafi , Kuleiny Volume 1 page 261 and Al Fusuul al Muhimmah fii usuul al a'immah, Volume 94 page 145.

 

14. Divine Light penetrated Ali. Source Al Kafi by Kuleiny Volume 1 page 440

 

15. The Imams are shown our deeds avery day and night Source Al Kafi, Kuleiny Volume 1 page 219

 

 

Most of the above beliefs were developed during the shorter absence of the Mahdi, Muhammad Ibn Hassan Al Askari, who we have mentioned briefly before although many fundemental changes that represent a departure from the original beliefs of Muslims were attributed to him through his handlers who claim that they had an access to this disappearing Imaam for an enduring 65 years. Let us look at the belief of the Shia about this imaam.

 

 

Waiting for your kind response.

 

Nur

[Umm al_khair]

statement of scholars concerning shia’as

 

http://www.troid.org/articles/manhaj/innovation/sheeah/statementsofthescholars.htm

[RendezVous]

^^^^^Viking...

 

Please brother Nur....start a new topic..to be discussed where you are asking a question and recieving an answer..we don't know so much about Shiasim...You know their ..aqeedahs..and all their books authors..all their lineages..and other details..we will be spectators and know how best those claiming to be SHIA...are replying to those claims.

 

I think that will help us reduce the frictions we have here..This people are going overboard..inserting unneccesary subtopics when you are concentrating on something...important.

 

Post a short history of the SHIAS...elaborating all neccesary details concerning the way they treat themselves MUSLIMS....Why they call themselves muslims and all the differences between SUNNIS and SHIAS...I think that will help all laymen and women @sol, OG and myself included..to know the truth.instead of going to tracks which are hard and convincing to them..they will resort to small cheap arguments..and that is what we are trying to avoid.

 

 

[Nur]

Viking bro.

 

You write:

 

Nur, Do you think that the head scholar of Al-Azhar erred when a fatwa was announced in 1959 (which is unchanged till today) saying that it is allowed for a Muslim to be a follower of the Ja'fari madhab (Ithna Cashariyyah/Shi'a al-Cimaamiyah) ? Do you think that Sheikh Maxmud Shaltoot and all those who came after him are in the wrong?

 

 

Answer,

 

Brother, We Ahlul Sunnah wal Jamaacah believe that our scholars are not devine, thus prone to make a mistake of judgement, as a control for this risk, we depend on the Quraan and the Sunnah as a check, if the scholar can defend his fatwa accordin g to a daleel from Quraan, we accept, if he cant, we simply dont, and that is the major difference between Sunnah and Shia in a nutshel.

 

I have clearly showed from Shia literature what they believe, to the page number , author and book, brother Viking, If indeed thesed beliefs are found to be true in the Shia Madhab, do you think with your understanding of Islam that it can be a fourth Madhab? or part of Islam?

 

 

kindly waiting for your response

 

 

Ngonge bro.

 

If you acn patiently read the entire article and all the responses ( it requires to have full time commitment like a real job ) This thread can make a lot of sense, not confusion, but if you just skim through it, I am sure that it will confuse any reasonable browser.

 

 

Nur

[Viking]

Originally posted by Nur:

Brother, We Ahlul Sunnah wal Jamaacah believe that our scholars are not devine, thus prone to make a mistake of judgement, as a control for this risk, we depend on the Quraan and the Sunnah as a check, if the scholar can defend his fatwa accordin g to a daleel from Quraan, we accept, if he cant, we simply dont, and that is the major difference between Sunnah and Shia in a nutshel.

 

I have clearly showed from Shia literature what they believe, to the page number , author and book, brother Viking, If indeed thesed beliefs are found to be true in the Shia Madhab, do you think with your understanding of Islam that it can be a fourth Madhab? or part of Islam?

Nur,

They are not infallible. I agree with your logic bro, but do you think that the research you have done is more than what the scholars of Al-Azhar have done from 1959 and beyond? Don't you think that they went deeper into Shi'a doctrines than you did? Some Muslims (belonging to the four madhabs) view Sufis as heretics while others don't, isn't it simply the same case here too?

 

We are all responsible for the choices we make in the end but we (people of SOL) aren't scholars and rely a lot of the research done by them. What we aim for in the end is to find out the truth.

[RendezVous]

Originally posted by Nur:

Dear OG Girl

 

According to the Shia ithna asheria Madhab, which you said you belong to,the last of the 12 Imaams,

Muhammad Ibn Hassan Al Askari .

is said to have disappeared at age 4, he is said to have fell in a ditch (

sirdaab

) which to this date is visited by Shia in a mosque in IRAQ, it is a holy place and thus a

MAZAR

where the faithfuls prayers are answered by the missing Imaam, the little boy Imaam, was not seen after that, but two scholars began acting as the agents who transmit orders frome the absent boy Imaam for the next 65 years, the majority of the Shia hadeeths to this date are those transmitted thorugh the nissing boy imaam in whi acidentally fell in the ditch ( Sirdaab) . After 65 years, a final letter came in through onw of the scholars which read that the missing imaam had gone into the longer absence, and they should not believe in any more tranmissions from anyone (

More likely, the two scholars got older, and they did not want anyone else to play the role again

) He is expected to return as the Mahdi who will uphold justice on earth.

 

Here is a summary of the Shia aqeedah, the sources are in my thread, all from Shia books:

Highlights of the Beliefs ( Aqaa'ed) of Shia Ithna Asheriyah.

 

 

1. The Imam is the Lord who dwells on earth.

 

It was reported that Ali RAA said " I am the Rabb ( Lord) who dwells on earth " source; Mir'aatul Anwaar wa mishkaatul Asraar, page 59

The Shia Sheikh Al Ayaashi interpreting the verse " Wa laa yushriku fii xukmihi axadaa" " He does not share his authority (judgement) with anyone" Ayaashi says, it means that no one should share the Caliphate with Ali.

 

 

2.

Fatima and Ali Reason Of Creation

:

 

A contemporary Shia Scholar in Sheikh Hussein Feheid Al Ahsaa'ey, says " Ali RAA is the face of Allah SWT" he also says Allah said " O Mohammad, if it was not for you, I would not have created the universe, and if it was not for Ali I would not have created you, and if it was not for Fatima, I would not have created both of you"

 

3.

Affairs of Present Life on Earth and the Hereafter are in the hands of the Imaam

. Source Al Kuleiny, Section, that Earth belongs to the Imaam, page 407 -410

 

4.

Natural phenomena like Thunder and lightening belongs to the Imaams

.

 

It was reported that Samacah Min Mehran that he said that " I was Abi Abdallah, then the sky thundered,, thenAbi Abdallah said, it is Ali ordering it " Source Bihar ul Anwaar, Majlisi Volume 27 page 33

 

5.

Extraordinary powers of Ali RAA

: It was reported that Ali RAA used to Rideclouds. A concept all Shia sects share, Biharul Anwar, Majlisi Volume 27 page 34. Also Ali is reported saying " I am the eye of Allah on earth, I am the Light of Allkah that is never exitinguished, I am the proof of Allah against servants"

 

6.

The Imaam holds the keys to the Unknown

( Al Ghaib) Source Al Kaafi, Kuleiny, Voulme 1 page 258, Section titled " The Imaams know when they die, and they never die without their consent"

 

7.

Imaams know what was and would happen in the future and nothing is hidden from them Al Kaafi, Kuleiny, Volume 1 page 260

 

8. It was reported (Falsly) that Al Saadiq said " Wallahi we (imams) are given the knowledge of the ancients and the future generations, he was asked " Do you have access to the unknown? the imaam responded " we know what everyman and woman will beget as decendants" Source Bihar ul Anwaar, Majlisi Volume 26 page 27 - 28

 

9.

Allah reveals revelations after the death of prophet Muhammad on the Imaams via angel Gabriel

. The Imam Muhammad Al Saffar ( Died 290 AH) says " An angel even greater and more knowledgeable than gabriel comes down with revelations to the Imaams" also see source Asxaabul Imaam Al Macsuum, page 111

 

10.

ALI Talks To Allah

: Al Saffar also reported in the Basaa'er Al darajaat Al Kubraa in ten volume proofs of the continuity of revelations on Shia Imaams, Ali Talked to Allah SWT. That he saw Gabriel, Ten stories volume 8, section 16 page 430.

 

11. Al Saffar also reports : It was reported that Humran ibn Acyun reported from Abu Abdullah Aleyhi Salaam, " I said, O Imaam, I heard that Ali Talked to Allah Aleyhi Salaam " The imaam said " Yes indeed, they talked in Taif Gabriel came down in their middle" Source Basa'r Al Darajaat, Section 8-16, page 430, Printed in Iran

 

12. Al Saffar alos reports in 13 reports that the Holy spirit ( Ruuxul Qudus) comes down on the imaams, the imaam said " We are increased knowledge at night, because if we did not have revealtions, our knwledge would run out" source Basaa'er ul Darajaat, Section 7, volume, 15. page 252

 

13.

Angel Gabriel, JIBREEL, is with Imaams always

: Kuleiny explaing a verse " And thus do we reveal to you a spirit form on authority" Kuleiny said the Imaam said " since Gabriel came down, he never left, he is with us imaams" Source Kuleiny Al Kaafi, Volume 1 page 173

 

13. Angels come down on earth on the night of power to tell the Imaams about the Qader and all that would happen the following year. Sources Al Kafi , Kuleiny Volume 1 page 261 and Al Fusuul al Muhimmah fii usuul al a'immah, Volume 94 page 145.

 

14. Divine Light penetrated Ali. Source Al Kafi by Kuleiny Volume 1 page 440

 

15. The Imams are shown our deeds avery day and night Source Al Kafi, Kuleiny Volume 1 page 219

 

 

Most of the above beliefs were developed during the shorter absence of the Mahdi, Muhammad Ibn Hassan Al Askari, who we have mentioned briefly before although many fundemental changes that represent a departure from the original beliefs of Muslims were attributed to him through his handlers who claim that they had an access to this disappearing Imaam for an enduring 65 years. Let us look at the belief of the Shia about this imaam.

 

Nur

DO U SHIA GUYZ AGREE AND ASCRIBE TO THIS AQEEDAH MENTIONED ABOVE.......OR NOT...

 

I THINK YES/NO WILL DO US BETTER.....

[Abdi2005]

Originally posted by Viking:

quote:Originally posted by Nur:

Brother, We Ahlul Sunnah wal Jamaacah believe that our scholars are not devine, thus prone to make a mistake of judgement, as a control for this risk, we depend on the Quraan and the Sunnah as a check, if the scholar can defend his fatwa accordin g to a daleel from Quraan, we accept, if he cant, we simply dont, and that is the major difference between Sunnah and Shia in a nutshel.

 

I have clearly showed from Shia literature what they believe, to the page number , author and book, brother Viking, If indeed thesed beliefs are found to be true in the Shia Madhab, do you think with your understanding of Islam that it can be a fourth Madhab? or part of Islam?

Nur,

They are not infallible. I agree with your logic bro, but do you think that the research you have done is more than what the scholars of Al-Azhar have done from 1959 and beyond? Don't you think that they went deeper into Shi'a doctrines than you did? Some Muslims (belonging to the four madhabs) view Sufis as heretics while others don't, isn't it simply the same case here too?

 

We are all responsible for the choices we make in the end but we (people of SOL) aren't scholars and rely a lot of the research done by them. What we aim for in the end is to find out the truth.

It was not fatwa from al-azhar as instetution it was the personal opinion of Shaltoot who was the head of al-azhar at that time. Al-tantawi the current head of al-azhar said recently that its ok for France to ban hijab, what do you say about that. Number two al-azhar don't teach shia madhab in there university which shows that its not recognized. Number three why do it take 1000 year for them to discover this fifth madhab? Number four is there anything from our great predecessors about this so coled fifth madhab?

Its only wishful thinking to say that shia are recognized as fifth madhab its something never heard of before.

[Haddad]

Originally posted by OG_Girl:

"TRUE" shia beliefs

Well, I have read brother Nur's list of the "TRUE" shia beliefs (#1-15): It didn't convince me to be the truth.

[S.O.S]

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

 

Dear brothers and sisters,

Since our shiicaa brethren did not openly declare the glorious Quráan as being false, there is nothing to worry about whatever interpretation they come up with. The Quráan will reinforce the position of the people of truth, and totally discredit the position of the “ithnaa cashariyyahâ€, for that reason, one cannot confess the truthfulness of the glorious Quráan whiles at the same time holding to these fantastically unbelievable

 

Allah has said:

 

There shal surely come to you guidance from Me, and whosoever follows My guidance, no fear shall be upon them, and neither shall they sorrow. And those who disbelieve and cry lies to Our messages, those shall be the inhabitants of the Fire. (suuratul-Baqarah 38-39)

 

Now there has come to you from God Light, and a clear Book; through which God guides him who follows His pleasure in the paths of peace, and brings them out of the depths of darkness into the light, by His leave; and He guides them onto a straight path. (suuratul-Baqatah 207)

 

And who has a better Way than he who surrenders his whole being (or will) unto God, doing (every act) excellently. (suuratul-Nisaa 125)

 

And remember God’s blessing upon you, and His solemn pledge by which He bound you (to Himself) when you said: We have heard, and obey. (suuratul-Maaídah 7)

 

The only response of Believers, whenever they are summoned unto God and His Messenger that he may judge between them, id that thay say: We hear and we obey; those- they are prosperous. (suuratul-Nuur 51)

 

It is not for any believing man or believing woman, when God and His Messenger have ruled in any matter, to have any authority for themselves in their affairs. For whoever rebels against God and His Messenger has gone astray into manifest error. (suuratul-Axzaab 26)

 

Follow what has been sent down to you from your Lord, and follow no masters other than Him; little do you remember. (suuratul-Acraaf 3)

 

We have not ever sent any messenger, but that he should be obeyed, by God’s leave. (suuratul-Nisaa 64)

 

Whoever obeys the Messenger, he has indeed obeyed God. (suuratul-Nisaa 80)

 

Whatever the Messenger gives you take it; whatever he forbids you, give it up. And fear only God. (suuratul-Xashr 7)

 

Have you not seen those who assert that they believe in what has been sent down to you, and what was send down before you, and yet desire to summon one another to the rule of powers in rebellion agains God, although they have been commanded to reject them. But Satan desires to lead them far astray. (suuratul-Nisaa 60) see also suuratul-Nahl 36.

 

But, by your Lord, they do not believe unless they make you the judge in whatever matters arise between them, and then they find in their hearts no impediment regarding what you have decided, but surrender in full submission. (suuratul-Nisaa 65)

 

Who judges not according to what God has sent down- they are the disbelievers…they are the wrongdoers …they are the transgressors. (suuratul-Maaídah 44-47)

 

Thus, my second question is (assuming having answered yes the first one), in light with the above mentioned verses, shall we not judge the fundamental basis of the so called “ithnaa cashariyyah†creed in accordance with Allah’s revelations, if we are true to our claims? Would also, the refusal to judge the correctness of our creed by Allah’s Word, mean the rejection of the revelation and the message of Islam?

 

Miss OG, you previously talked about the fact that you are allowed to go to Makkah for Xajj, as a matter, which validates the righteousness of your belief-system. Unfortunately that is simplistic view to take (all your views embarrassingly simplistic for that matter) when it comes to the issues of belief and disbelief, which are based on any decision taken, to allow or not to allow anyone’s entrance in Makkah for whatever purpose. Therefore, we people of truth (ahlussunah waljamaacah), take the view cannot declare apostasy on the ignorant and deceived masses who are the followers of the so called “ithnaa cashariyyah†before/unless is explained the true message of Allah and the way of His Messenger (peace be upon him), from which then it becomes xujjah upon them. However, those who have become subject to xujjah and rejected by their own will, those who are their leaders and scholars, all of those are apostates and outside the realm of faith. It is they, rather than the ignorant populace, who should be refused entrance in Makkah. If you call your professor extremist, for his statement that he would not have allowed them to go to Xajj, had he been in a position of leadership. Well, I’m telling you now, that had I been in a position of leadership, I would have fought them and brought them to justice (Quráan and Sunnah) in humbleness for the sake of Allah.

 

Secondly, what you said of Allah changing his mind (subxaanalaah, may the camels of your ancestors be destroyed), don’t you know that to change mind stems from imperfect knowledge? Exalted is He (Allah) what you ascribe to him!!!! Since it is part of my next topic, we’ll go more into depth then.

 

As for Viking and the fatwa he brought forward, one must remember that the same sheikh had made a fatwa supporting atheistic system of socialism. He was not the only career mufti then, and definitely not the only one now. Come up with proofs from the clear sources of guidance (I have proposed to you the Quráan), if you are not a liar! This is a challenge to your evil self, that which you camouflage behind others and in the name of the quest for the truths. Come out and show your true face if you dare.

 

Allah said:

 

And some men there are who say: We believe in God and the Last Day; but they are not (really) Believers … in their hearts is a desease. (suuratul-Baqarah 8-10)

 

Next time, hadduu eebbe idmo, we’ll take a closer look at the so called “caqiidatul badaayaâ€, what the Quráan states, what the people of truth believe and what their lies and deception led them to believe.

 

WCWW