I am also a Shia too!

[Nur]

Dear Sister OG

 

All of the Sunnah who live today know of the fitnah that happened during Ali and Muaawiyah, given all the facts we know today, I have yet to meet a Sunni who would not have supported Ali in that quarrel, Ali was right, may Allah forgive Muaawuyah who was a great Companion otherwise, who conquered many lands for Islam and was one of the earliest who memorized Quraan, although there was recorded violations by his successors agianst the al al beit, th Ummah, loved the al al beit and sympthized with their plight, The Prophet SAWS taught us not to get involved with the problems that happened with his companions, so, according to that Hadeeth, we do not say much about what had happened in that Fitnah except that Ali was right, and Muaawiyah was wrong. Allah says " These people have passed away, they will expect to get what they had rightfully earned and they will be punished for what they have erred, and you wll not be asked what they had done " so if you belive in that verse, we should look forward not backward.

 

It is also true that that the form of Califate changed to a non Islamic form of governance, namely Kingdom, again, although all Sunnis live under these rules, we all know it is not the right Caliphate, and we are all striving to bring about the right governance in an ordely way without causing more evil and mischief on earth while we ar seeking to do good, you would agree with me that the worst days of Siyad Barre of Somalia to be far better than the best days of our Anarchist warlords.

 

Now that politics is out of the way, the question remains, where did greates Shia scholar Kuleiny who wrote the Kaafi got his teachings?

 

More likely, the Sirdaab ( a hole in the ground where the little 4 year old imaam Saadiq al Mahdi fell in) and for the next 65 years, that Imaam was transmitting Hadeeths from that hole ( Al Ghayba al sughraa ) through two men, who are the only authorized transmitters of hadeeths from the absent Imaams Askari.

 

 

The problem is not politics, we agree Ali should have been the imaam, even if you want to push for Abubakers place, that is negotiable, but to change the aqeedah, that is not right, my dear sister, so please read my post again preferably with a cool head and kindly tell me were I went wrong, you owe me an advice if I am wrong, أنا لست دكتاتور

 

 

Nur

[RendezVous]

Originally posted by Nur:

Dear Sister OG

 

Now that politics is out of the way, the question remains, where did greates Shia scholar Kuleiny who wrote the Kaafi got his teachings?

 

More likely, the Sirdaab (

a hole in the ground where the little 4 year old imaam Saadiq al Mahdi fell in) and for the next 65 years, that Imaam was transmitting Hadeeths from that hole ( Al Ghayba al sughraa

) through two men, who are the only authorized transmitters of hadeeths from the absent Imaams Askari.

 

 

The problem is not politics, we agree Ali should have been the imaam, even if you want to push for Abubakers place, that is negotiable, but to change the aqeedah,..the true ISLAM.. that is not right, my dear sister, so please read my post again preferably with a cool head and kindly tell me were I went wrong, you owe me an advice if I am wrong, أنا لست دكتاتور

 

 

Nur

Even If we would have made Sayidina Ali Radhiallahu Anhu(The First Calipha)..would Shias still change the Holy Quraan and Other Prophet's Sunnah...ISLAM was already a way of life..many people have already memorised the Holy Quraan as it was revealed by heart.How come you can changed some few few things from the Holy Quraan.

 

Again Why would shia still disintegrate into more complicated classes like the Bohras and Ithna Ashariya...and whatever classes they have...

 

Brother Nur, did u ever see what Bohras believe in..Or the way they pray to Allah..This people are against ISLAM and Ahlu Sunnah...you will associate them with the HINDUS..walahil cadhiim..

 

Brother Nur please give us all the differences between SUNNIS and SHIAS in a summary so that readers can know what SUNNIS believe in and what SHIAS believe in...Please include their mode of worship and other details that you deem a big difference...and thus remove doubts and stop associating SUNNIS and SHIAS...

 

I didn't know if IMAAM ASKARI is still missing...Where did he go..Even Prophet Mohamed and Sayidina Ali died..Including all of ahlu bayt..Where did he vanish from..and why was he giving sermons from the 'Hole'..?

 

Acudhu Billah...

[Umm al_khair]

salam

 

i didnt have time to read the thread, but since this is about shia and sunnni i would like to ask a question.

 

i have heard that shia's have a differnt quran and they dont read the same quran as the sunni. is this true?

[bint abee saeed]

Brother Nur outlined these points from your shia books written by shia scholars. inshallah, I would like to know, from the shia on this thread, if this is the belief of the shia or not. a simple yes or no. if no, then inshallah you can tell us where nur went wrong or the problem with the authors of these books, bi-ithnillaah.

 

quoting nur:

Highlights of the Beliefs ( Aqaa'ed) of Shia Ithna Asheriyah.

 

 

1. The Imam is the Lord who dwells on earth.

 

It was reported that Ali RAA said " I am the Rabb ( Lord) who dwells on earth " source; Mir'aatul Anwaar wa mishkaatul Asraar, page 59

The Shia Sheikh Al Ayaashi interpreting the verse " Wa laa yushriku fii xukmihi axadaa" " He does not share his authority (judgement) with anyone" Ayaashi says, it means that no one should share the Caliphate with Ali.

 

 

2. Fatima and Ali Reason Of Creation :

 

A contemporary Shia Scholar in Sheikh Hussein Feheid Al Ahsaa'ey, says " Ali RAA is the face of Allah SWT" he also says Allah said " O Mohammad, if it was not for you, I would not have created the universe, and if it was not for Ali I would not have created you, and if it was not for Fatima, I would not have created both of you"

 

3. Affairs of Present Life on Earth and the Hereafter are in the hands of the Imaam . Source Al Kuleiny, Section, that Earth belongs to the Imaam, page 407 -410

 

4. Natural phenomena like Thunder and lightening belongs to the Imaams .

 

It was reported that Samacah Min Mehran that he said that " I was Abi Abdallah, then the sky thundered,, thenAbi Abdallah said, it is Ali ordering it " Source Bihar ul Anwaar, Majlisi Volume 27 page 33

 

5. Extraordinary powers of Ali RAA : It was reported that Ali RAA used to Rideclouds. A concept all Shia sects share, Biharul Anwar, Majlisi Volume 27 page 34. Also Ali is reported saying " I am the eye of Allah on earth, I am the Light of Allkah that is never exitinguished, I am the proof of Allah against servants"

 

6. The Imaam holds the keys to the Unknown ( Al Ghaib) Source Al Kaafi, Kuleiny, Voulme 1 page 258, Section titled " The Imaams know when they die, and they never die without their consent"

 

7. Imaams know what was and would happen in the future and nothing is hidden from them Al Kaafi, Kuleiny, Volume 1 page 260

 

8. It was reported (Falsly) that Al Saadiq said " Wallahi we (imams) are given the knowledge of the ancients and the future generations, he was asked " Do you have access to the unknown? the imaam responded " we know what everyman and woman will beget as decendants" Source Bihar ul Anwaar, Majlisi Volume 26 page 27 - 28

 

9. Allah reveals revelations after the death of prophet Muhammad on the Imaams via angel Gabriel . The Imam Muhammad Al Saffar ( Died 290 AH) says " An angel even greater and more knowledgeable than gabriel comes down with revelations to the Imaams" also see source Asxaabul Imaam Al Macsuum, page 111

 

10. ALI Talks To Allah : Al Saffar also reported in the Basaa'er Al darajaat Al Kubraa in ten volume proofs of the continuity of revelations on Shia Imaams, Ali Talked to Allah SWT. That he saw Gabriel, Ten stories volume 8, section 16 page 430.

 

11. Al Saffar also reports : It was reported that Humran ibn Acyun reported from Abu Abdullah Aleyhi Salaam, " I said, O Imaam, I heard that Ali Talked to Allah Aleyhi Salaam " The imaam said " Yes indeed, they talked in Taif Gabriel came down in their middle" Source Basa'r Al Darajaat, Section 8-16, page 430, Printed in Iran

 

12. Al Saffar alos reports in 13 reports that the Holy spirit ( Ruuxul Qudus) comes down on the imaams, the imaam said " We are increased knowledge at night, because if we did not have revealtions, our knwledge would run out" source Basaa'er ul Darajaat, Section 7, volume, 15. page 252

 

13. Angel Gabriel, JIBREEL, is with Imaams always : Kuleiny explaing a verse " And thus do we reveal to you a spirit form on authority" Kuleiny said the Imaam said " since Gabriel came down, he never left, he is with us imaams" Source Kuleiny Al Kaafi, Volume 1 page 173

 

13. Angels come down on earth on the night of power to tell the Imaams about the Qader and all that would happen the following year. Sources Al Kafi , Kuleiny Volume 1 page 261 and Al Fusuul al Muhimmah fii usuul al a'immah, Volume 94 page 145.

 

14. Divine Light penetrated Ali. Source Al Kafi by Kuleiny Volume 1 page 440

 

15. The Imams are shown our deeds avery day and night Source Al Kafi, Kuleiny Volume 1 page 219

[Haddad]

I am getting curious about the Shia authors and books mentioned here. If anyone has links (online, Arabic or English) to the Shia sources (like Kuleiny), please post it. On my part, I will be searching those links, and post it here if I find. The point being, read it firsthand.

[Viking]

Nur,

Do you think that the head scholar of Al-Azhar erred when a fatwa was announced in 1959 (which is unchanged till today) saying that it is allowed for a Muslim to be a follower of the Ja'fari madhab (Ithna Cashariyyah/Shi'a al-Cimaamiyah) ? Do you think that Sheikh Maxmud Shaltoot and all those who came after him are in the wrong?

[RendezVous]

Originally posted by The Rendezvous:

Inal hamda lillah...

 

Please Help...I want someone to please help me find the answers to some of the following questions...Bro Nur please assist...one by one please..we need to come to the facts...

 

1.....Where were Shias when Prophet Mohamed(s.a.w)was there..Alive and kicking..I think he would categorically have answered some of their questions...

 

2.....are Shia Imaams more 'holier' that our prophet(s.a.w)..Why would they stay away from This world Like in 'Mahdis'..for so long that even our Prophet Mohamed couldn't?

 

3......Why are they refuting the Holy quraan..I think they didn't refute the Holy Quraan when The Holy prophet was there...Why now...?

 

4....Why has Shia..never spread more than IRAN and some parts of India..Sunnis have spread more than them by far..It has bypassed Indonesia..Malaysia and Philipines..Does this show the spread of Truth over false...?I am sure 'TRUTH' spread by far..

 

5....What kind of books do they ascribe to if they don't accept The Holy Quraan..?Do they have a different Quraan...?why didn't they say so when The prophet Mohamed was there...

 

6....Why do they classify the Sahabas as..Good and adversaries..when Sahabas were one united group during prophet's time...?Why now?

 

7....Even if they are given the authority to Lead ISLAM...as they say they would have liked...would they still change the Holy Quraan and Hadeeth...I think they would have left it compact and same...And what about the prayers..why do they pray differently...?Why didn't they pray like so...when The prophet was there...

 

8....Why did the birth place of the Holy Prophet never had many Shias..I mean(MAKKAH)..It was infact supposed to be the 'Centre' of Shia if I am not wrong...Why IRAN...now?If they claim anything to the Ahlul..bait..

 

10.....^^^^^My question above...did this have a relation with Christianity/Judaism which started in Jerusalem...and now controlled from The Vatican...(ROMAN EMPIRE)..Christians have no option but to accept orders from The Vatican..did we refuse orders from IRAN(PERSIAN EMPIRE) and continued with the Truth...?

 

11......was there some kind of political parties after The prophet's death...Which party was Shia..Did they lose the Elections...

 

12...Now what problems do they have with Sunnis..Why do they hate Sunnis..What brought about this disunity in ISLAM....

 

13....Could this be a plan to 'finish' ISLAM which didn't work fine...?

 

14...Why are they coming back to the fold of ISLAM now after 1200 Years later...?if they didn't prove themselves wrong..

 

Cajeeeeeeeeeb...No wonder we are seeing an 'Influx of Shia follower'...coming back to the main Branch of islam(SUNNI)...Come to Dubai and arabia..(for those Shias who came into contact with 'Real ISLAM')..and see them IRANIANS and other Shias..denouncing their Poltical party(Shiasm)coming back to the fold of ISLAM..they do regret...walahil cadhiim....

If indeed Shias has the above AQEEDAH...as posted by Brother Nur...I think it is more inclined to CHRISTIANITY than ISLAM...

 

Please our Shia mates help us answer the above questions and thereby also acknowledge if the 'SAID AQEEDAH' is related to SHIA...You will do us great service to know if the Length of the AQEEDAH co-posted by Plasma for Bro Nur is related in any way to SHIASM...

 

Thanks all,

 

[Abdi2005]

Originally posted by Viking:

Nur,

Do you think that the head scholar of Al-Azhar erred when a fatwa was announced in 1959 (which is unchanged till today) saying that it is allowed for a Muslim to be a follower of the Ja'fari madhab (Ithna Cashariyyah/Shi'a al-Cimaamiyah) ? Do you think that Sheikh Maxmud Shaltoot and all those who came after him are in the wrong?

This fatwa is not of any value. This was made in time of arab nationalism and it was politically motivated fatwa. Al-azhar is not longer as it was before, we remember the words of al-tantawi the head of al-azhar about hijab ban in France. If al-azhar consider shiism it be legitimate madhab why don't they teach jafari madhab in al-azhar? its hypocrisy. Its really weird that after 1000year this is the best recognition shia hav to clime they are fifth madhab. What happened to our great scholars of islam? did any one of them recognized jafari madhab? NO

 

All the debate about shiism among our scholar have not been whether to consider them fifth madhab or not but whether they are muslims or not and thats the plane fact if you study the works of our classical scholars.

[NGONGE]

Originally posted by Abdi2005:

quote:Originally posted by Viking:

Nur,

Do you think that the head scholar of Al-Azhar erred when a fatwa was announced in 1959 (which is unchanged till today) saying that it is allowed for a Muslim to be a follower of the Ja'fari madhab (Ithna Cashariyyah/Shi'a al-Cimaamiyah) ? Do you think that Sheikh Maxmud Shaltoot and all those who came after him are in the wrong?

This fatwa is not of any value. This was made in time of arab nationalism and it was politically motivated fatwa. Al-azhar is not longer as it was before, we remember the words of al-tantawi the head of al-azhar about hijab ban in France. If al-azhar consider shiism it be legitimate madhab why don't they teach jafari madhab in al-azhar? its hypocrisy. Its really weird that after 1000year this is the best recognition shia hav to clime they are fifth madhab. What happened to our great scholars of islam? did any one of them recognized jafari madhab?

NO

 

All the debate about shiism among our scholar have not been whether to consider them fifth madhab or not but whether they are muslims or not and thats the plane fact if you study the works of our classical scholars.

And the conclusion, in spite of all the waffle, is that they ARE Muslim. Or else, why would our ardent Sunni scholars and brothers allow these non-Muslims to set feet in Mecca?

 

 

Some discussions are nauseatingly redundant and cause nothing but division and fetna. This is one of those discussions.

 

It’s one and only aim is to prove that the Shia are deviants! Well, maybe they are. Maybe the Saudi government (and all the Muftis there) only allow the Shia to do the pilgrimage out of political pressure...

[S.O.S]

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

 

Dear brothers and sisters,

 

I would like to suggest that dealing with the issues of fundamentals in the Islamic creed, needs to be taken one at the time to make any meaningful progress in presenting the truth. If our shiicaa brethren agree with us on the unquestionably of the glorious Qur’aan, I would also like to suggest that we from now on base all our judgments on the Qur’aan. If your are true to your claims of open mindedness and seeking the truth, when the XAQQ comes, BAADHIL vanishes. The ignorant (like me) and the logically challenged should greatly benefit, unlike those who Allah described as “summum bukmun cumyunâ€, also present in the forum.

 

We should present and examine the following shiicaa concepts, such as “caqiidatul badaaâ€, “caqiidatul dhiin†etc. one by one in the light of the Qur’aan and if the Qur’aan supports these concepts, we should accept , but if the Qur’aan rejects these concept, then we should all reject and condemn these stances. I hope you’ll all agree on the rulings of the glorious Qur’aan in which there is no doubt, so we can atleast start a constructive discussion here.

 

 

Whenever his Lord called upon him to surrender, he readily responded: I surrender to the Lord of all the worlds (suuratul-baqarah 131)

 

I have turned my face to him who is the Creator of the heavens and the earth, having turned away from all else (suuratul-ancaam 79)

 

I’ll be waiting for your responses.

[RendezVous]

Originally posted by Shams-ud-Din:

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

 

Dear brothers and sisters,

 

I would like to suggest that dealing with the issues of fundamentals in the Islamic creed, needs to be taken one at the time to make any meaningful progress in presenting the truth.

If our shiicaa brethren agree with us on the unquestionably of the glorious Qur’aan, I would also like to suggest that we from now on base all our judgments on the Qur’aan.

If

your are true to your claims of open mindedness and seeking the truth, when the XAQQ comes, BAADHIL vanishes. The ignorant (like me) and the logically challenged should greatly benefit, unlike those who Allah described as “summum bukmun cumyunâ€, also present in the forum.

 

We should present and examine the following shiicaa concepts, such as “caqiidatul badaaâ€, “caqiidatul dhiin†etc. one by one in the light of the Qur’aan and if the Qur’aan supports these concepts, we should

accept

, but if the Qur’aan rejects these concept, then we should all

reject

and condemn these stances. I hope you’ll all agree on the rulings of the glorious Qur’aan in which there is no doubt, so we can atleast start a constructive discussion here.

 

 

Whenever his Lord called upon him to surrender, he readily responded: I surrender to the Lord of all the worlds (suuratul-baqarah 131)

 

I have turned my face to him who is the Creator of the heavens and the earth, having turned away from all else (suuratul-ancaam 79)

 

I’ll be waiting for your responses.

Thank you Brother Shamsudin..I appreciate your concern and effort to bring to discussions topics of great importance to our boards.I do appreciate your Concern for all NOMADS to base their arguments and counter arguments on the HOLY QURAAN...But I still assume some NOMADS..will never accept the 'INTERPRETATION'..of the HOLY QURAAN...this seems ridiculous to me and playing with other people conscience..because the Holy Quraan was in Arabic and alhamdulillah many translaters managed to translate in English almost to the degree of 99.9%..So how come you will start a different kind of Translation..of your own with a 0.0001% acceptance?

 

Our Dear Shia freinds, Please first accept we use the Holy Quraan as our way of solving our differences..Instead of resorting to politics and Current world happening..we wish to discuss and accept that ..Shiasm is way far from ISLAM...We don't need to know if London was bombed or not..What we need is to separate 'Wheat From Chaff'..While people are busy trying to sort things out, you go all along singing about fatwas and other unneccesary distractions..

 

Peace.

[bint abee saeed]

so is the above aqeedah your belief as a shia or not.

 

stop dwelling on other issues, lets begin with you affirming or rejecting the above stated aqeedah found in your shia books. then we can show you where in the quran you have erred.

 

sister are you serious about your statement "there is no(t) much detail in the quran?"

perhaps you never read Allaah's statement "This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islaam as your religion" (5:3)

 

you have not even been left alone to decide which hand to eat with, or how to clean yourself after using the bath room, or what foot to enter/exit the bathroom with, and you have the audacity to say not much detail. Allaahu 'Akbar. no, we do not understand and interpret the quran the way we want. we depend on the sunnah to explain the quran, and we go with the understanding of the society which the quran was revealed upon, the companions. and not an individual who disappeared at the age of 4 and has been relaying from a hole. but inshallah you can tell us if this in itself is true or not.

 

og girl mentioned above, that the wahhaabis/salafi are changing their mind about woman's face being awrah, so does islam change...

(firstly this is a fiqh issue.)

 

according to the belief of the shia found in their books they belief Allaah frequently changes His mind.

but inshallah you can tell us if this is really your belief as a shia.

[Salafi_Online]

OG-Girl,

 

you said,

Salafi, brother, I'm done with Nur. I'll never waste my time with him.He picks and chooses what he wants. I can do the same but I'm better than that.My intention is not to wrong people unlike him.

 

OG do u believe in Absolute Truth? if so, what would it signify if he picks and chooses what he likes? A perfect Faith should refute all false alligations with precision.

 

Ngonge,

Rather the believe of the sunni scholars is that the shia scholars are all disbelievers, and that the shias(general public) have fallen into disbelieve, we refrain from callin them kufar, because they have fallen into disbelieve due to ingorance.

 

The Islaamic ruling regarding (Ayatollah) Khomeini

 

Question: What is the Islaamic ruling regarding (Ayatollah) Khomeini?

 

Response: Khomeini has a book in which he mentions the excellence of the Imaams (Hassan and Hussein et al) of the family of the Prophet (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) over and above the Prophets and the Messengers (`alayhim as-salaam); (So) based upon this (statement of his) he is not a Muslim.

 

Shaykh al-Albaanee

al-Haawee min Fataawa ash-Shaykh al-Albaanee – Page 349

 

source: fatwaonline.com

[Salafi_Online]

OG,

 

i dont encourage blind faith, if Brother NUR was capable of dissecting my faith as he has done with urs, as a firm believer of absolute truth it would atleast leave a certain element of shuubuhat, if not i would atleast attempt some form of refutation. what is the purpose of Da'wah? if you cant call people to what you believe in, whats the point of believing in anything?

[Salafi_Online]

Og, im sorry for being overly simplistic but with that frame of mind then all world religion are are legitimate since they all using their brain to reach their own convictions. arent they all convinced they follow the truth. what distinguishes false aqeeda from the truth aqeeda?? these are not trivial questions OG, this are matter of Nar and Jannah, non??

 

furthermore i trust its from ur aqeeda that your imams are infalible, so how can u reject their fiq?