Who is going to remove the roadblocks in Puntland???????? The safety of Galkacyo.

[Sky]

This problem of the schooling lies not at the feet of the USC as such, but rather those good-for-nothing sufi/xerta odayaal. The problem although is too much to get into here is very deep rooted and alxamdullilah steps are been taken to tackle them, their backward thinking and the hold they have on the people of Southern Mudug in general. The clansmen of the people of Southern Mudug run the best teaching institutions in Mogadishu (from Imam Shafici, Imam Nawawi, Banadir University, SIMAD...) and whilst I was in Somalia, along with well-known businessmen/women they were at the planning stage of taking marked steps to alleviate this problem.

I disagree Rahima, those responsible are the remnants of the USC/SNA of Caydiid. Former Lieutenants or soldiers based in Gaalkacyo. They are the ones who call the shots in Baraxley. The wadaads are probably the only light os society nowadays; running private schools, successful business and building mosques and learning centres throughout the country. Only 20 miles north of Gaalkacyo there is an intriguing looking town called Heema . Founded by a well-known Sheikh who returned to his tribal homeland and set up a Xero in the middle of nowhere. Now its an Islamic learning centre where boys are turned into Wadaad men. They live like monks and when they come out after a few years; they marry.

 

The problem is that the people from Gaalkacyo and Mudug in general have developed a colonist mentality. Reer Mudug have amassed so much weapons, that they have implanted themselves to other areas with better economic opportunities and militarily weaker people. The people of Southern Mudug as you said have concentrated their power and wealth in Muqdisho. Same goes for the people of Northern Mudug. They used their military dominance to control Bosasso, which they still do. Thriving businesses like Amal Express, Dalsan, Al Mustaqbal, Somali Telecom Group, Hilaac, Gallad Air, Ramad just to name a bunch are all owned by this particular subclan in Northern Mudug.

 

As for the unification of Gaalkacyo-I can’t see that happening. No doubt Gaalkacyo is a volatile town-arguably the most volatile in the country. I personally think that people should learn from their past, these two tribes were at each others throats even before the war; they never leave each other alone. I believe that the best solution lies in their separation.

I disagree. I truly believe the two separate entities in Gaalkacyo can reunite and will reunite sooner or later. If the two despots C/Yussef and Caydiid pulled it off to establish a somewhat successful peace agreement between the two clans, why can't sane people (And I hope by Allah they are out there!) pull it off to make Gaalkacyo one and whole again. Of course questions will be raised, because of Somalia adopting the federal system. Puntland or like Dire Dawa a state in itself.

[Rahima]

I disagree Rahima, those responsible are the remnants of the USC/SNA of Caydiid. Former Lieutenants or soldiers based in Gaalkacyo. They are the ones who call the shots in Baraxley. The wadaads are probably the only light os society nowadays; running private schools, successful business and building mosques and learning centres throughout the country. Only 20 miles north of Gaalkacyo there is an intriguing looking town called Heema . Founded by a well-known Sheikh who returned to his tribal homeland and set up a Xero in the middle of nowhere. Now its an Islamic learning centre where boys are turned into Wadaad men. They live like monks and when they come out after a few years; they marry.

I think you misunderstood me. I did not say wadaadaha, I said the sufi odayaal-trust me these men are far from religious. These are the men who among other things call for the tribal wars, who sit around all night long chewing on qaat while they chant, who are anti-xijaab and who believe that secular education is unnecessary.

 

The wadaado like you said on the other hand are making progress and they are the ones taking up the struggle to educate the masses and provide the necessary services be it healthcare education or housing. There is a major clash between these two groups in Southern Mudug. Wadaadaha erect schools and educational foundations, the sufi odayaal call for their closure because ‘Al-itixaad’ built them. This fear of Al-itixaad is shared all across the region, but is more evident down South.

 

Basically wadaadaha and the sufi ‘sheikhs’ are on different ends of the struggle, alxamdullilah by the will of the Almighty the war is being won gradually. More and more people are beginning to see the backward thinking of these men.

 

As for Gaalkacyo, it seems you have more hope than I. I think everyone hopes for unification simply because there isn’t a person who has roots in that town and who does not have family from both sides, however the hurdle is far too high me thinks. Peace has been achieved because of interest, not because they have a true want for it, for this reason there aren’t in my opinion good enough intentions for there to be unification.

[Scientist]

Yeh again and again blame your misfortunes on others, first it was the Italians, then it was Ethiopians, and now all the problems of South Mudug is made by the WADAADO, You can not solve your problems while blaming others, thats a fact.

The Core Problem of South Mudug is the Mass migration and occupation of its people to the deep south, this has coused this reagon to become a Ghetto and a mini hell, all other Somalis are building their own areas of the country, but for the people of south Mudug they see this land as a cursed.

[Rahima]

^ You alright mate? I think you're a tad confused there .

 

Blame wadaado? Where? Which of my posts did I blame the wadaado. Dude believe you me I am all for wadaadaha (any person who reads my posts would know this)-in fact if you had read properly and comprehended even a little you would of have seen that I gave credit of any progress to wadaadaha.

 

Then again, who knows, you might consider them qaad chewing good-for-nothing backward and tribalistic odayaal as wadaado. If this is the case, then yes we do disagree, not on this discussion per se, but the definition of a wadaad. In terms of the discussion Sky and I were having, the problem lies with these odayaal. This is a fact dear not something that i decided to conjure up .

 

As for the migration issue, this is nothing new. Before the civil war many from all clans migrated down south to Mogadishu (hence not a concept invented by the people of southern Mudug) because it is the capital and as people saw it had greater opportunities for them. It just so happens that due to animosity created by the civil war and circumstances resulting from it, folks have gone where they believe they can go-hence for some it meant going back to their regions and others migrating still to Mogadishu because they still believe there is greater opportunity there for them. I personally would love to see them build their own regions instead of just pouring everything down south. At the end of the day though, it is about personal choice. If people wish to live anywhere legitimately they should be allowed to do so, if they abuse this anywhere they should be shunned. I don’t understand why someone should be restricted because their clan lives in Region X or Country X. I personally would invest where i felt was most beneficial and could bring about the best returns for me, likewise i'd live in an area i felt most comfortable with and that for me is certainly not Mudug, not because i believe it to be cursed but i see other areas as having greater potential and a more comfortable lifestyle.

 

If the clan of Northern Mudug can live and invest in Bossaaso (like Sky highlighted), why can’t the tribe of Southern Mudug do the same in Mogadishu? If the tribe of Burco can live and invest and Hargeysa, why can’t the tribe of Southern Mudug do the same in Mogadishu? Unfortunately Somalia has become divided even more so on tribe, the folks of SL share a tribe, as do those of PL and finnally as do those ranging from Southern Mudug all the way to Mogadishu. If one builds their region and the other neglects theirs, it’s their choice and perhaps bad luck, but it is their choice and it is for them to decide to do something about, not for any of us to make it grounds to attack them.

 

If we however look at it from the perspective of the results of the Somali civil war, if it had been different, I guarantee you then the folks of Southern Mudug would of have been forced to build their own region leaving Mogadishu for others, however this is not the case and they have options which they obviously see as more viable and fruitful. If the civil war had not occured we can almost guarantee that no tribe would be building their regions-they do so because of the civil war. To this extent, i suppose some good came out of the disaster-it is ridiculous for a whole people to pour almost all their wealth into one city.

 

Overall I do believe that sooner rather than later, they will turn their efforts on their own regions, but it is for them to decide.

[Jumatatu]

Originally posted by Ali_BaBa:

but for the people of south Mudug they see this land as a cursed.

Isnt't it..? Considering what is in the north I dont think u can blame them..

[General Duke]

Rahima, you have a point, but many here misunderstood. The traditional wadaado's have loads of power in southern Mudug and have been a roadblock to many initiatives to start viable projects in the area. Another dilema facing south Mudug is how to address the brain drain that has occured, the brightest and the best have moved elsewehere some are like any other clan in the diaspora majority have put their efforts in Mogadishu..

 

Yet Galkacyu is not as volitile and the differences do not run deep, the people of Mudug, south and North share everything, unfortunately due to their famous arrogance/ignorance, none will ever admit it..

[Scientist]

If the clan of northern Mudug can live and invest in Boosaaso....Why can't the tribe of southern mudug do the same in Mugadishu

Rahima The difference is the tribes from northern Mudug don't live in Bosaaso at gun point, and they don't live in looted houses, but the southern mudug tribes case is Vice-Versa, I don't object to any Somali living anywhere in the country, but peacefully and respect for the native population, and as anybody can see thats not the case in Mogadishu, Merka, Shalambood, Afgooye, Brava, etc. this is not investment and looking for better opportunities, this is occupation of the people of these cities at gun point. All the 13 Isbaaros between Xamar and Afgooye and controlled by the gangs of Baraxleey, Thats not an investment IS IT?

[Rahima]

^Oh yes silly me. :rolleyes: Of course all the folks or at the very least most from Southern Mudug live illegitimately in Southern Somalia. I mean how absurd of me to even think that perhaps most are peace-loving Somalis who live legit lives down South. How could I be so misguided, they are after all all a bunch of good-for-nothing looters who live on stolen property and stolen wealth. Here I was thinking that every tribe has the good and the bad and here I was thinking that the tribe of Southern Mudug is like the rest of the Somali tribes. What was I thinking? How dare I look at the fact that this group controls most of the institutions (be they schools, universities or hospitals) down south, along with many businesses instead of knowing that that does not matter because a few men from this group want to set up isbaaro all the way to afgooye.

 

Must be a deficiency in me, please accept my apology dear Ali Baba . I shall recant such backward and out of touch mentality. Now I see what the wonders of the tribe mentality can do ! I have submitted to this wisdom.

 

General,

 

The traditional wadaado's have loads of power in southern Mudug and have been a roadblock to many initiatives to start viable projects in the area.

These imbeciles need to be dealt with more fiercely. Wadaadaha have avoided confronting them because they speak no other language but the gun, instead they have resorted to fighting the war where the booty is the minds and hearts of the people hence it takes much longer. They have won the war in Mogadishu (in that they are almost at the point of being shunned by the public) and now they are turning to Mudug which will no doubt be more difficult but by the will of Allah they shall be victorious.

 

Another dilema facing south Mudug is how to address the brain drain that has occured, the brightest and the best have moved elsewehere some are like any other clan in the diaspora majority have put their efforts in Mogadishu..

True, but I can’t see that happening. Most are thinking of their own lives and that of their families, hence Mudug as they see it does not hold a torch to the lifestyles they have set up for themselves in Mogadishu. Life is cushier for them in Mogadishu, it is where they have all their wealth, homes and comfortable lifestyle. Very few are willing to go up North to deal with it, selfish? Perhaps, but understandable- Mudug is a tough terrain.

[Scientist]

Your poetic CALAACAL is trying to divert the topic from its stream, I am not saying all people of south mudug are muggers, no but there is a strong case against these people that they neglegted their homeland, and went aggressively to other more fertile regions such as Xamar, Lower shabelle, lower and middle Jubba,etc. There is no tribe in the south they did not pick up a fight with such as (Muqdisho 1991-95)at least 80000 people were killed according to the UNDP. Next it was Baladweyn 1995 many people were killed, Next Baydhabo 1995 un known number of people probably were killed, until Ethiopia came to the rescue of the RRA, Next 1996 Kismayo, Lower and Middle Jubba, Next 1997 Merka, Barava and Lower shabelle region under the banner of Cabdulqasim, and the list goes on and on and on, and thats why lots of somali people believe this is the reason people of Southern Mudug don't want a Central Government,and thats why they hate low and order, otherwise they have to vacate the land they accupied by force, and sometimes that makes senses. So Where is the Investment Sis?

[Rahima]

Calaacal? Very mature .

 

I am not denying that there are moryaan which have committed many crimes and continue to do so. I've said this many times :rolleyes: .

 

The problem with your reasoning is that you seemingly you want us to believe that many are there illegitimately and are basically nothing more than looters.

 

Are you going to deny that most have worked hard for theirs and there are a few rotten apples in comparison? Are you going to deny that many have xalaal investments or are you to say they have all stolen?

 

and thats why lots of somali people believe this is the reason people of Southern Mudug don't want a Central Government,and thats why they hate low and order, otherwise they have to vacate the land they accupied by force, and sometimes that makes senses.

Read what you wrote and tell me you don’t see how distorted that is. What sort of generalizing is that anyway? :rolleyes: The people of Southern Mudug?? I agree if you had said the warlords and their supporters, but the people of Southern Mudug? Say what! Do you even understand for even one nanosecond what sort of connotation that has? Do you appreciate how that reads?

 

As for diversion of the stream, dear I do believe that i was in the midst of discussion about the sufi odayaal in Mudug and you felt the need to jump in and attack me for supposedly was attacking wadaadaha. I gave you an explanation and once again you decided to jump at me for another point, now allow me to be so polite as to ask, who is diverting what discussion?

[Sky]

Here I was thinking that every tribe has the good and the bad and here I was thinking that the tribe of Southern Mudug is like the rest of the Somali tribes. What was I thinking? How dare I look at the fact that this group controls most of the institutions (be they schools, universities or hospitals) down south, along with many businesses instead of knowing that that does not matter because a few men from this group want to set up isbaaro all the way to afgooye.

Rahima, they control those institutions, because they directly or indirectly benefit from the military hegemony their clansmen have in that neck of the woods. Muqdisho already was a modern, thriving city with schools, hospitals, universities and colleges. The make up of the business community and primarily the business elite of the south and in this particular case Muqdisho were not made up of people from Southern Mudug and Galguduud, not at all. But by Northeasterners and Northwesterners. These two groups are uprooted from the city and the consequent vacuüm of Muqdisho's business was exclusively filled up by the people that were associated to the USC. These post-1991 companies are Global Money Transfer, NationLink, United Bottling Company etc. (The last one is specifically interesting, because it uses all the equipment of the former Coca Cola producing company in Muqdisho, of which ironically an uncle of mine was the managing director)

 

 

Ali Baba,

 

You are generalizing too much. It's not a fair image to portray that the Southern Mudug folk are evil, backward savages whom wish this government to fail out of clan hatred and further enjoyment of their acquired war booty.

[Rahima]

Rahima, they control those institutions, because they directly or indirectly benefit from the military hegemony their clansmen have in that neck of the woods. Muqdisho already was a modern, thriving city with schools, hospitals, universities and colleges. The make up of the business community and primarily the business elite of the south and in this particular case Muqdisho were not made up of people from Southern Mudug and Galguduud, not at all. But by Northeasterners and Northwesterners. These two groups are uprooted from the city and the consequent vacuüm of Muqdisho's business was exclusively filled up by the people that were associated to the USC. These post-1991 companies are Global Money Transfer, NationLink, United Bottling Company etc. (The last one is specifically interesting, because it uses all the equipment of the former Coca Cola producing company in Muqdisho, of which ironically an uncle of mine was the managing director)

Assuming that even for arguments sake that this is true, it really doesn’t make a difference. Simply because your cousins have military power it does not mean you will automatically gain any sort of success based on this- a person must have the knowledge and experience to run these institutions, you can have all the military power possible and still get nowhere if you don’t have the skills of importance. What I dislike (and what many Somalis do) is for example when people say tribe X was successful in Somalia they came up with the nonsense that Maxamad Siyaad Barre gave them a break and gave them all land cruisers, when in fact as reality dictates the break was only dished out to a few folks in leading positions (which is how it usually pans out) and the average Faarax and Xaliima of that qabiil had to work for theirs. I don’t buy into any of these generalizations, nor do I buy into this nonsense of the folks of Mudug/Galgaduud have attained success in Mogadishu because they hold the people at gun point (just loved this one ). I suppose one cannot change peoples views, but the suggestion is but simple, ask about who these men who run the institutions/business are and on whose side of town folks live and is thriving (I’m on the verge of disgusting myself :rolleyes: , I almost sound like a typical backward Somali, but I state this as fact not with any foul intentions).

 

These men are those who did not contribute to the clan wars and who mind you are themselves at war (not physically in a sense) with the warlords and their supporters. These men are the wadaado. The good for nothing moryaan spend all day sleeping and all night chewing on qaat-they are in my view insignificants bugs that will be erased with time. In the meantime, we shouldn’t be downplaying the achievements of those who have worked hard for the greater good, a few even leaving their lives in the west to contribute back home like the owner of Nationlink (a young man who got his electrical engineering degree in the US, returned home and started his now thriving business).

 

At the end of the day regardless of whether or not they filled a vacuum (by saying this one would be inclined to think that indirectly one is saying they don’t have the ability to stack it up with those who left but it really is not an issue I care to delve into), they are doing something whilst we sit here making our lives in countries we have no right to really.

[Scientist]

First of all I don't buy the idea that the wealth created by the southern mudug falks includind Galguduud, are pure Xalaax, and I think the vast majority of Somalis know it but don't want to say, for example My house in the area of Xamar Jidiid is occupied by your causen since 1991, he is now one of the wealthiest in the area and refuses to get out of our house, and you call that XALAAL, but forget about my house I am not going back to Xamar anyway, lets take some of the wealthiest South mudug business men, Deylaaf, Xaaf,Caato,Ilqeyte, and Co, do you really beleave these guys worked hard to acheive where they are? These guys and their fellow citizens looted a whole country and still doing so. So i don't know where you got from this idea of diffending looters and calling them investers and comparing them with northern Mudug falks in Bosaso.

 

About your dismissing of the Gun point fact, I would advice you to ask the diffendless people of Merka , Barava, Afgoye etc, then youll know what I am talking about.

 

And your obsession with the wadaado made me feel really sick, these people should be praised for not mudling into the looting you call (Investment and better opportunity), maybe your angry for them because they did not join the party and head south.

[Rahima]

^Cali,

 

Yes that’s right , they’re all evil and live on xaraam. Yes those men are indicative of the whole tribe. Yes they're all barbaric savages who need to be leashed and caged.

 

And yes I’m attacking wadaadaha. I mean qaad is xalaal after all, so is tribalism, the xijaab is unislamic and it is absolutely against the tenets of Islam to be educated- in fact it is abhored and repulsive.

 

I write white, you read black. I write South, you read North.

 

Have a nice day Mr. Baba , who knows in future when we begin to speak the same language we might be able to have a productive conversation because I can’t do much for wrongly directed bitterness .

 

Now Now, please don't become sick again on my account. I apologise beforehand if i make you feel this way again .

[OLOL]

Ali Baba! (reminds me of The thief of Baghdad )doesn't like the southern Mudugh folks...they are from the enemy clan who may have defeated his clan in some clannish mêlée and thus holds resentment against them....that is logical in the Somalia’s accepted wisdom...His whole furor and generalization above is just a sign of an entrenched Somali malaise that has no remedy. so let the chap vent out and villify all southern Mudugh folks for the actions of few militia boys, that may be therapeautic for him. The militia boys from his camp, North Mudugh, are in fact well-disciplined and trained Somalia's future army forces who will march south to liberate Mogadishu from the Illegal occupiers,....That is a noble undertaking of our North Mudugh clannish uncle!! our beloved president Mr. Abdullahi Yusuf Ahmed!

 

Some here speak the language of Fadhi Ku Dirir, of sweeping statements, of irrational deductions and so ..while others in the forum are educated and balanced individuals living in the modern civilized world where they engage each other in the language logic and common sense...and civility...

 

I have also to remind people forum rules and maybe to invite moderators to come in and edit some the posts for they are undoubtedly so provocative, skewed and uncivilised. and if we try to address and engage these folks we may at the end become like them and be banned for good....

 

 

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Direct personal attacks

--- Insults

--- Name-calling

--- Indirect tribal insults

--- Tribal names

--- Bad-mouthing a whole society/region

 

These have become the norm in this section lately. We will not tolerate this any further. This forum is a moderated forum. It is not an "open for everything" forum. There are folks here who feel insult, not intellect, is their only weapon for any political discussion. Very sad indeed.

 

We have reached the conclusion that some individuals must be banned from this forum in order to bring stability and high level discussions back to the political section. That is the only solution to this mayhem. We will keep monitoring this section and ban silently those individuals who are here to ruin the quality of this section. For us this is very, very personal.

 

Again, we apologize to our readers.

 

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Ali Baba and Sky have to be chastized for their above fracas!!