I'm not Somali, I'm a Somalilandeeeeer

[Xoogsade]

Salafi, Somaliland doesn't rule by islamic Law. They may have made Islam nominally the religion of the people since the inhabitants are Muslims, but that doesn't mean they rule by it. No one is blind and people are aware of what goes on over there. I am sure you Can't equate them with Saudi Arabia for example, whose employment of islam is obvious in the lives of its citizens and the way they carry out the punishments. To claim otherwise, SOUNDS FISHY on your part.

 

Also, it would be nice if you choose other methods of persuassion or dissuassion than putting those who disagree with you in a position where if they disagreed with your point, they appear to be disagreeing with Allah. Saxib, No one is above disagreement except the prophet of islam whose word was part of islam, the rest are human beings who err and make the wrong judgements. Somaliland doesn't rule by Sharia Law evidently, its foundations are based on tribal protection(good in my book), its objective is to live separate from other Somali Muslims for fear of history repeating(fine in my book as well since I believe no one should be forced to live with anyone else if they choose not to, out of lingering distrust and nothing can be worked out in the immidiate future). Those who hail from there are making the wrong arguments in every debate they take part. Perhaps they should keep to the facts and they will be more clearer to others rather than saying silly things like "We are different", "We were called Somaliland before", "We are superior in culture" all of which shed a ngeative light on a matter already frawned upon every rule-book that cares about Islam and Muslim Unity. Not only that, but we are talking about people with the same blood, language and ethnicity who should have gotten along just fine about everything.

 

Somaliland's existence(in the dreams and aspirations of its supporters) wouldn't be possible if it wasn't the former government's mistakes and abuse of power. It would have been very difficult and impossible for the proponents of the separation to even utter the word secession in the middle of their community. Now that everyone is at ground zero, as we were prior to colonial times, every tribe being independent and on its own, having love/hate relationship with their immidiate neighbours, Somalis can either choose to come together and correct past mistakes or let the status quo continue while everyone minds their business(I strongly believe that so long as somalis are adhering to the tribe loyalty, to not even bother about a government). This is what is going on. Let us Not pretend we don't know each other or part of us can be fooled by the same brothers they know in and out.

[Salafi_Online]

Salafi, Somaliland doesn't rule by islamic Law. They may have made Islam nominally the religion of the people since the inhabitants are Muslims, but that doesn't mean they rule by it

Saxib, you should be honest to yourself,

You do not have a glimpse of what the shariyah entails, unless you’re a scholar of the Shari’a, which I highly doubt, For you would not have wasted your precious time on this board! Your rhetoric is analogous to a man who has never open the Book of Allah, yet hastily moves his tongue saying, “this is Haram and this is Halalâ€

[Xoogsade]

Salafi, You should start with yourself and be honest about who you are and your worth first. And I accept your advice. It is well taken since I don't think of me as what I am not. I am not silly enough to claim, act or pretend I know everything and I never did. Even if I knew a lot about islam, it would be wrong of me to say I know a lot about it. If you know everything(which you act as if btw given to your inherent questioning of other people's honesty and faith), I don't. I just told you to behave accordingly and stop accusing others or insinuating that when they disagree with you, they are disagreeing with Allah Almighty.

 

And like I challenged you, Can you say Somaliland rules by the Sharia Law like the Saudis Do? It is a yes or No answer. Have the government over there carried out any Xudud laws that I haven't heard of?

 

I know enough not to be intimidated by the likes of you whose knowledge don't go beyond questioning every Muslim's faith if they disagree with them. It is as if your line of defense against others is questioning their faith and digging holes in their Islam.

 

Oh btw, I want you show me where I said this is HALAL AND THIS IS HARAM. Just pull that out from my Posts please. I can't wait to see the Quotes.

[Kowneyn]

Xoogsade:

 

The second line of article 5 of the Somaliland constitution states: The laws of the nation shall be grounded on, and shall not be valid if they are contrary to Islamic Sharia.

 

I have already mentioned that the highest authority in the land is a legislative body that is envisioned to consist of culuma and culture leaders, they will be responsible for guiding the religious and political life of the nation.

 

I think Salafi is saying that using his limited knowledge of sharia and his good senses Somaliland has made a sound judgement...and its wrong to scrutinize it based on sharia unless u are an expert in sharia.

 

I am signing off from these boards for awhile :cool: :cool:

 

 

Kowneyn

[Salafi_Online]

X, for your info I augment my opinions with kitab and sunnah,(you should try it sometimes) I do not bray like a senseless donkey(not directed at anyone, general statement) issuing out opinions that are not enhanced with kitab and sunnah!

 

Oh btw, I want you show me where I said this is HALAL AND THIS IS HARAM. Just pull that out from my Posts please. I can't wait to see the Quotes.

Saxib I think you missed the point!

 

BTW there is only on path to Allah and thats the way of the salaf, the best generations! and those who revile the companions by saying they used and abused islam, such kaalam can not be tolerated!

 

I love Sis Rahima for the sake of Allah, and i dont care where she is from, I do not identity with a country or a race/ for i am a muslim who follows the kitab and sunnah upon the understand of the salaf, the salafies are united upon a single creed! in this thread, i merely expressed my opinions as to why Somaliland should create their own country i took the pros and cons taking Muslim unity into consideration and booya here is the results . like I said before, its just an opinon. an opinion which can change at any time!

[Xoogsade]

Salafi, All this love for the sake of Allah is good and I didn't question it. I told you to use a different tactic and means of persuassion or dissuassion when someone disagrees with you rather than telling them openly or insinuating that they are on the wrong path to comitting the grave sin of opposing something that shouldn't be opposed. This is not to say you are wrong if you have a point against them(or against anyone), but the way you do it. This comment might have been bothersome to you and was the reason you started accusing me to have claimed the status of scholarship when in fact, I hardly take part in the islamic section debates. One should know about his abilities and credentials and I know mine very well. My silence was the testament you needed to know about my lack or little knowledge of islam. I feel happy with my status of a lousy learner and not a dispenser of edicts, or one who wants to question anyone's honesty who deals with him. I am just too busy trying to get over my problems and short-comings Runtii.

 

 

Anyway, back to the topic at hand(we haven't been talking about Salafi creed here), You addressed one part and left out the other alone in regards to my questions about Somaliland. So I am gonna repeat it and like you to address it Please.

 

"Can you say Somaliland rules by the Sharia Law like the Saudis Do? It is a yes or No answer. Have the government over there carried out any Xudud laws that I haven't heard of and I need to know?" What islamic laws do they enforce when violated if you know any?

 

 

As for you basing your opinions on the book of God and the ways of His Prophet, I say Good for you indeed. I can't assert such claims on my part to be honest. One needs the knowledge to make such claims adn I don't have. That is why I avoid taking part in religious discussions where people are refuting each other and everyone claiming to have a case based on the Quran and Sunnah. I also have read and seen too many times before, people using the Quranic verses and the Hadith also accusing each other to have taken the Quran/Hadith out of context, or one of the group being in an obvious violation of the agreed upon meanings of the verses/hadith to enhace their own agenda, be it political or scoring a point against another Sheekh(who btw was said to hold the same creed as they do) just because they disagree on something. It is all confusing to me. I even went to the link you dropped here once before and checked out some of the stuff and its contents. The troid website.

 

 

In any case, I am not here to argue about Islam but want to know if there is any truth to the claims/assertions made by asking simple questions

 

We don't have to attack each other's islam to make the other look bad or accuse ourselves to be taking the role of scholarship when the subject at hand is just tribal politics and everyone is giving what he thinks the problem and the facts on the ground are.

 

 

Bro Kowneyn

 

Thanks for your Quote. That is progress on their part but nothing different than the Qadafi's Declarations and claims of servitude to Islam. Everyone takes refuge in islam even though most of the time what they are doing have remote resemblance to it

[Salafi_Online]

"Can you say Somaliland rules by the Sharia Law like the Saudis Do? It is a yes or No answer. Have the government over there carried out any Xudud laws that I haven't heard of and I need to know?" What islamic laws do they enforce when violated if you know any?

Bro when i said none of us are well versed in the shariyah to know who is ruling by it and who is not means; that what we think shariyah is, is perhaps not the shariyah in its true form!

 

We the unlearned folks have limited knowledge in this field, if none at all! just because they dont cut the cutting the hands of a thief..ect/ does not mean they dont not rule by the shariyah. There could be a situation that we lay muslims are not aware of! So to say they do not rule by the shariyah its a blank statement, because the person who is utter such statements must have complete knowledge of the shariyahs with all its conditions and rulings, this is why i said Rahima and others should not be so quick to say they dont rule by the shariyah unless they a have complete understand of the shariyah !

 

there are ample reasons why somaliland may not not appear to rule with islamic law, one maybe the lack of scholars to carry out such task!

 

I,myself dont know if Somaliland rules with Shariyah laws, for i do not know the essence of the shariyah law and what it entails! So i remain silent in this regard! this was my advice to kheyr, Rahima and everyone else!

[OG_Girl]

"we unit the ummah upon the correct creed( that way of the companions)"

 

Yabga 2abelny bel mesh mesh :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

 

 

"I would never go to a shia’s backyard for fear that Allah, his messenger(saw) and all of mankind’s Curse may fall upon me! If you dont like the Kingdom you can always leave, Ali(ra) is buried in Karbala you know!"

 

Finally , I am happy to make you understand and bring you to the Earth!!.. I did not know you just understand this language... atleast you have some brain ..Good for you :rolleyes:

 

 

"The solution is, you should stop speak ill of the sahabas!"

 

Don't hide behind Sahabah..they are not only yours when it supports your arguement.. this is old trick adero... I bet they did not teach you the history ...Shame on your salafi masters

 

"P.S

Do you know one of the greatest Shaykh of this ummah happends to be from Ogadan(now part of Ethiopia) He was an honourable man, May Allah send his blessing and mercy upon his soul! Ameen"

 

Thanks, I wish if you know the relationship and blood I share with that sheikh al-jaleel.

 

Now stop being "hypocrite" and practise what u preach...would you ? :rolleyes: .

 

I really feel sorry for this Ummah, when ignorents like you talk on behalf of Islam!!.. really sad.

 

Salam

[Kowneyn]

X,

We are not Qadafi, Somaliland's government and constitution are work in progress...remember always Somaliland is "the best kept secret in Africa" and "the nation that can"...with time we will prove the nay sayers wrong as we have always done...may Allah make it the kawthar of dunya wal akhira...

 

C Yaa!

 

Kowneyn

[Qudhac]

i as somalilander would rather keep somaliland as it is today rather than immitate saudia arabia or any other arabian dispotic administration, thank you but no thanks i would rather keep my tradition and historical way of life rather than immitate the backward ways of the curent kingdome who are more "unislamic" than most countries..

 

 

rahima

 

when the time comes to unite all muslim people thoughout planet earth then somaliland will unite with them at the edge of yoomal qiyama if that what you really getting at at, till then somaliland will be stay as it is god willing.. is that too hard for you to grasp.. :confused:

 

for once people stop using religion as a political begging bowl.

[Salafi_Online]

Don't hide behind Sahabah..they are not only yours when it supports your arguement.. this is old trick adero... I bet they did not teach you the history ...Shame on your salafi masters

 

Shame on who, the Sahabas?

[OG_Girl]

NO, YOUR SALAFI MASTERS IN KINGDOM.

 

Leave Sahabah, they are between Allah's hand , May God forgive them and reward them to Jannah.

 

Salam

[AYOUB]

Baashi:

At issue is whether Islamic country ravaged by civil war and surrounded by traditional enemies should be dismembered on the basis of what European power colonized what corner of this now independent but

chaotic country

.

Baashi

The Union of the two countries turned into one chaotic country and thats the basis of the division. We tried the 'unity' but it has failed and failed badly. "It was that regime" I hear you say. Yes it was that 'Scientific Socialist' Regime which you are now trying to sell under the guise: '4.5 formula'. The very same wine and not even a different bottle just a new label. The Generals are to be called MP's and everything else will sort itself out, you hope, fingers crossed.

 

By "surrounded by traditional enemies" do you mean IGAD countries -the people who came up with the plan you are now to trying convince Somalilanders to accept? OR maybe by 'traditional' you are returning to Somaliweyn rhetoric and mean all the non-Somalis who live around us?

 

Simple fact is Somaliland is working and I know for a fact what the people in Mbagathi are all about and I think we are at the point where we used to say 'Somalia should sort itself out first'.

 

Baashi:

By the way,

as of tactical strategy, would you go after what you can accomplish and within your reach

or would you rather declare a war in which you can’t win and draw a fire from every conceivable corner.

Somaliland IS exactly about that strategy .

 

You know damn well that Islamists’ struggle is within national boundries because of the imposition of international order in the way of independent states and seemingly overwhelming power in the hands of Western states that have power to sanction the freedom-fighters and declare their country rogue nation at will.

Saxiib this not about force or war, the way forward is by agreements like the example I gave earlier about Aqils and traditional leaders. Axamdulillah most of Somaliland has been multi-qabiil and peaceful and even Puntland's civil war was sorted with the involvement of one these clan leaders. Rather than to keep calling all the neighbouring non-Somalis Muslims enemies, maybe the way forward is to at least involve their 'traditional elders' with ours, but that comes after ALL Somalis sorted their 'backyards' first, perhaps using the same traditional method rather than a grand 'peace conference' organised and controlled by the real enemies.

[Xoogsade]

Waryaada, Talking to one person can mean offending a whole tribesmen who are not even participating That is what I don't like about discussing politics and Somali issues. I have nothing against anyone or any Somali person or Tribe. I apologize if I have offended anyone. It would have been easier if we were a society that sees a difference with an individual to BE NOT a difference with his whole tribesmen. And that is where our entire problem lies. The collective mentality that either makes you a saint or a villain regardless of your personal innocence or guilt. You are not Mr.X but always Tribe-X. I can't win for Losing.

[A New Born]

I´ve been followin this thread from start .. i´ve seen how puntlanders and "Mogadishu ppl"(No Lnaders ) together acted as united front against seperatists somalilanders.

All i´ve seen is pointless debate and rain of emitions. you guyz have even USED the Moslim cause as a reason to keep somaliland in the fold.

now let me give you a dos of pragmatic questions.

 

for somalilanders:

1: your seperation move was unilateral i. e illigal,so you´ve to turn back to the same ppl you´ve sidelined for an acceptable legal divorce.

how u gonna DO that? yellin " i´m a sovereign state " without recognition haven´t helped for 14 years .. will you go secretly to GAROOWE n apply for a federal passport to n still CLAIM hopelessly that you´re a STATE?

 

for Puntlanders and Nolanders:

what have you got for the somalilanders except destruction, hatered and chaos?