I'm not Somali, I'm a Somalilandeeeeer

[IL CAPO]

Originally posted by Salafi_Online:

^^^^ you gave me a good laugh, thank

is that you laughing?

[OG_Girl]

Hmm... slow down with copy and paste , we having discussion here aren't we ? :rolleyes:

 

 

natty a k a Athiest101.. keep quite , you and I know each other other places keep your things low please

 

Salam

[IL CAPO]

Originally posted by nattydread:

garrissa eh? interesting

I and I, Airey Man, Me wonna feel Airy son, Pass me tha JoJo,Jah Bless and One Love to Me Garissa Feel me Airy.

Jah Love. :cool:

[IL CAPO]

OG_Girl,

 

I Love Your Perfume,can i borrow it for a day or two please?

[Qac Qaac]

Natty dread... how do u know.. islamic state won't fuction.. pls enlighten me...

[OG_Girl]

Qacbaro, natty doesn't believe in religions Islam or others!!..when I first met him he was an atheist but now he told me he found he believes in God or super power (as he likes to call) but not in religion. So that is why I told him keep his proflie low.Prople here don't know him but I know him and we had a debate in other forums.

 

He is nice brother though

 

Salam

[Qac Qaac]

ok thanks Og girl.. sub xanallah.. a somali atheist... ilahey ha soo hanuuniyo... may allah bring him back to islam..

[Faheema.]

It appears that this Politics Forum only comes to live when Somaliland is on the menu. Don’t you people get tired of these constant and repetitive arguments/debates that are nothing short of fadhi ku dirir?

 

Maybe you feel the need to “defend†your region; Lakiin I am sure you’re aware that at the end of the day whatever he/she says does not have an effect on the decisions that are made in the Somali Political arena, markaa maxaad la xiiqaysaan?

[Gediid]

^^^^^^^Good news Mr,for pointing that out here's a cookie............

[Gabbal]

^^^

 

Mr Eyes noo sheeg dadka dabka hurinaayo.

[checkmate]

posted by il capo

I and I, Airey Man, Me wonna feel Airy son, Pass me tha JoJo,Jah Bless and One Love to Me Garissa Feel me Airy.

Jah Love.

loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool...ya dhannow berjrin.....ya maaan.

 

asxantu

[LayZie G.]

I don't see what the fuss is all about...

 

The bottom line is that no one in this forum is out there on the side-lines for both sides of the region. Nagging about what should or shouldn't be done all the way from your cozy apartments/houses/flats isn't going to cut it.

 

I still believe that if anyone of you want to make a difference in a positive way , you should atleast show the effort of going out of distance and actually part-taking in the political battle, instead of letting these senile's dictate on who out of all of them would be better fit to lead the country into the next step.

 

I also believe that somali won't be complete without somaliland, and somaliland will never become independent.

 

Lets face it, this is similar to the quebec referendum, who in the hell would consider quebec a country??? The province of Quebec is part of canada, just as somaliland is part of somalia.

 

SOMALILAND CAN'T BE RECOGNIZED AND WONT BE RECOGNIZED IN THE EYES OF THE WORLD...FACE FACTS, PULL YA CHIN UP, AND BE PROUD OF BEING PART OF SOMALI WEYN.

[LANDER]

Lazye Girl,

It's interesting you would use Quebec as a comparison to Somaliland as some other somaliweyn advocates have previously done, but as rational people we should should come to see the flaws in that comparison.

 

1-Quebec would have seceded had the referendum in 95 not been defeating by a small margin for the “no†vote, I think it was about 51 or 52%. Somaliland on the other had a referendum in which a high percentage of the people voted to secede. That referendum had some international observers and yet received some much deserved criticism for not including remote regions. Now if that same referendum were to be held today to include those regions previously left out, I can still say that with reasonable certainty the majority would vote for secession, eventhough the percentage is guaranted to be less than the previous 97%. Case point being that Somalilanders had voted “yes†in their referendum while the majority of quebecers voted “no†in both their referendums.

 

2-I believe the reason quebecers had voted “no†in majority is that Quebec has been part of Canada since 1867, matter a fact it was one of the four original confederate provinces. So Quebecers have become in integral part of Canadian society since the country is now 137 yrs old. I really can’t imagine as most other Canadians this country whitout the province of Quebec and believe me the whole country was on edge during the 1995 referendum, I know some politicians in Ottawa where biting their nails. Also there haven’t been any real crisis between the feds and Quebec since the 60’s during the “revolution tranquile†but that was beyond Quebec nationalism and we won’t get into it. Not to mention Quebec had never previously been a State so their demand for statehood might have been challenged in other ways had the “yes†vote prevailed. Who can imagine team Canada whitout the likes Martin St-Louis, Mario Lemieux, Vincent LeCavalier, Martin Brodeur etc….. ? Somaliland on the other hand already once was an independent country recognized by some 30 odd countries who’s voluntary union only lasted some 20 odd years, not to mention it was interrupted by a civil war.

 

So you see anyway you look at these scenarios, you run into clear contextual distinctions.

 

Anyway, I wasn’t aware you posted in politics forum lazye girl , too bad the 6ers weren’t sayin much last year. Hate to say I told ya D-town was takin the East

[Rahima]

Salafi_online

 

A whole load of fatwas for you to read, enjoy

 

1.

First this statement is inaccurate for there is no unity with the innovators, I would not have mention this, but you used the wordâ€Never†thus I think its important I clarify that. There is no Unity with the innovators. Plus not every innovation leads to disbelieve,so to limit disunity with the kufar is absolutely not how the salaf understood this deen! this also includes the people of desire,(Ahlul Hawa) We hold fast on the rope of Allah upon the proper Aqeeda and manhaj; that of the Salaf!

WRONG.

 

Like I said, there is never complete disunity from a Muslim (even one that commits an act of bidca which does not take him/her out of the fold of Islam).

 

Daleels are:

 

 

Question :

 

Is it permissible to give charity and financial help to one who follows some innovations?.

 

Answer :

Praise be to Allaah. ….

 

People vary with regard to faith and Islam. Some of them fear Allaah and have faith more than others. Thus each person varies in the degree to which he is entitled to the rights of friendship, depending on the degree of his religious commitment, although they all come under the general heading of the friendship that is required in Islam.

 

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in al-Fataawa, 28/209:

 

Allaah sent the Messengers and revealed the Books so that the religion (worship) would all be for Allaah, so that love would be for His close friends and hate for His enemies; so that His close friends would be honoured and His enemies humiliated; so that the reward would be for His close friends and the punishment would be for His enemies. If good and evil, obedience and disobedience, Sunnah and bid’ah, coexist in a person, then he is deserving of friendship and reward to the extent that he is good, and he deserves enmity and punishment to the extent that he is bad. So the reasons for honouring and humiliating may coexist in a person; both may coexist in him – such as a poor thief whose hand is cut off for stealing, but he is given enough from the bayt al-maal (treasury) to meet his needs.

 

This is the basic principle upon which Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah are agreed…

The answer to this question is based on this general principle. Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

There is some bid’ah for which a person may be excused, there is some which reaches the degree of fisq (evildoing) and there is some that reaches the degree of kufr. With regard to those who follow bid’ah that constitutes kufr, it is not permissible to help them at all, even if they call themselves Muslims, because their calling themselves Muslims whilst they persist in that bid’ah that constitutes kufr, even after evidence has been established against them, means that they are akin to the hypocrites who said, “we bear witness that you are the Messenger of Allaah,†but Allaah said (interpretation of the meaning):

 

“Allaah knows that you are indeed His Messenger, and Allaah bears witness that the hypocrites are liars indeedâ€

[al-Munaafiqoon 63:1]

 

With regard to innovation that constitutes fisq (evildoing), or for which a person may have a justifiable excuse, the fact that they follow bid’ah does not mean that we are not allowed to help them. They should be helped against their kaafir enemies because they are undoubtedly better than those kuffaar. Al-Baab al-Maftooh, 1/66

 

 

2.

and as for your statement that no country rules by the shariyah,Im Shocked you would made such statements.

Why? It’s right on the ball!

 

There is no country that at this moment which rules by he shareeca as it should be ruled by. The huduud example you gave brother (i.e. that even though the hand-cutting of a thief may not be enforced) could still fall under the shareeca, for there are circumstances which could over look that (there could be poverty for example and the person was not provided for, hence the blame is on the leadership), however as is evident in the following fatwa, issues such as riba cannot for they are clear cut and are a matter of choice.

 

 

Question :

I have read many fatwas which forbid dealing with banks that engage in riba, but I have a question: If these banks are haraam and dealing with them is haraam, how can they have been allowed to develop in the Islamic states?.

 

Answer :

Praise be to Allaah.

 

What is haraam is that which has been forbidden by Allaah and His Messenger, and what is halaal is that which has been permitted by Allaah and His Messenger.

 

Riba is haraam according to the Qur’aan, the Sunnah and the consensus of the ummah. Every institution or bank which is based on riba is subject to the declaration of war from Allaah and His Messenger, whether it is in a Muslim state or a kaafir state. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

 

“O you who believe! Be afraid of Allaah and give up what remains (due to you) from Ribaa (from now onward) if you are (really) believers.

 

And if you do not do it, then take a notice of war from Allaah and His Messengerâ€

[al-Baqarah 2:278-279]

 

The fact that governments approve of the riba-based banks should not be taken as proof that these banks are permitted. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) has told us that there will come a time when the people will permit that which Allaah has forbidden, such as adultery, alcohol and musical instruments. That does not mean that these haraam things will become permissible thereby.

 

The scholars have issued many warnings against these banks, and issued many fatwas stating that it is haraam to work in them without paying any attention to the fact that they are allowed by the state. They have often advised the governments of Muslim countries to ban these riba-based banks.

 

It says in Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah (15/51):

“Riba is haraam according to the Qur’aan, the Sunnah and scholarly consensus… working in banks that deal with riba is haraam… The fact that the government may approve of them or allow them to open banks or remains silent about that does not mean that it is permissible for the Muslim to deal with them. It is not permissible to work in these banks because the government does not possess legislative authority; rather legislative authority belongs to Allaah alone in His holy Book, or the Revelation that He sent to His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).â€

 

And it also says (15/55):

 

“Working in banks that deal with riba is haraam, whether that is in a Muslim state or in a kaafir state, because it involves cooperating in sin and transgression, which Allaah has forbidden as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

 

“Help you one another in Al Birr and At Taqwa (virtue, righteousness and piety); but do not help one another in sin and transgressionâ€

[al-Maa'idah 5:2]

 

Shaykh Ibn Baaz said, after quoting some of the evidence from the Qur’aan and Sunnah that riba is haraam:

 

“This is some of the evidence from the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) which explains that riba is haraam and the danger that it poses to the individual and to the ummah. Whoever deals in it enters into a state of war against Allaah and His Messenger. My advice to every Muslim is to be content with that which Allaah and His Messenger have permitted and to refrain from that which Allaah and His Messenger have forbidden. What Allaah has permitted is sufficient so that we have no need of that which Allaah has forbidden. We should not be deceived by the large number of riba-based banks and the spread of their dealings in every place. Many people no longer care about Islamic rulings, rather they care about making money by any means. That is only because of their weakness of faith and lack of fear of Allaah, and because of their love for this world. We ask Allaah to keep us safe and sound.â€

Majallat al-Bukhooth al-Islamiyyah, 6/310

And Allaah knows best.

Also,

 

What are the actions which, if a Muslim does them, he will be an apostate from Islam?.

 

 

Answer :

Praise be to Allaah.

 

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

 

Note that Allaah has commanded all people to enter Islam and to adhere to it and to beware of whatever is contrary to it. He sent His Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) to call mankind to that. He tells us that those who follow him will be guided and that those who turn away from him have gone astray. In many verses He warns against the means that lead to apostasy and all forms of shirk and kufr. The scholars (may Allaah have mercy on them) have said, when discussing apostasy, that a Muslim may apostatize from his religion by doing many acts that nullify Islam, which makes it permissible to shed his blood and seize his wealth, and which will put him beyond the pale of Islam. Among the most serious and most common of these things are ten which were mentioned by Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhaab and other scholars (may Allaah have mercy on them all). We will mention them in brief here, so that you and others can beware of them, in the hope that you will be safe and sound. We will also explain a little about them after mentioning each one.

….

 

 

8 – Supporting the mushrikeen and helping them against the Muslims. The evidence for that is the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

 

“O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Awliyaa’ (friends, protectors, helpers), they are but Awliyaa’ of each other. And if any amongst you takes them (as Awliyaa’), then surely, he is one of them. Verily, Allaah guides not those people who are the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers and unjust)â€

[al-Maa'idah 5:51]

 

Is this not what the leadership of Saudi Arabia does?

 

Brother you seem to be making a grave mistake. The salafi scholars are not in support of their government for they believe them to be on the path of righteousness but rather because of the element of preventing certain dilemmas which may arise.

 

The other point is do you even know what the scholars mean when they say the Land of Tawheed? Can a country be called the land of tawheed and not rule by the shareeca as it should be ruled by? Wording differs from one person to another, for example i consider an Islamic state any country which rules by the shariica as it should be ruled by, but one the other hand other consider it to be any land where the Muslims are the majority. Nonetheless, please answer these and we shall go on from that.

 

3.

Maybe your referring to Salma & Safar and there likes?!?

Personally brother I am satisfied with the Q&S as far as self-evident points of Islam are concerned. I’m not sure why but you seem overly consumed with this and that scholar said this and that, which is why I have resorted to just points of scholars this time, for it seems daleels of Q&S are not sufficient for you as you seem to think it is an issue of particular understanding.

 

And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?

 

As for which scholars, firstly I respect and love both shaykh salman and safar and would quote them if the need arose. You my brother do not and can’t seem to comprehend the difference between refutation of a particular point and complete disagreement and attack of caqiidah. I suggest you read up more about refutations, you might begin to see that scholars do not always see eye to eye on everything and we as lay man should not jump on the banwagon of disrespect but rather respect those who have more knowledge than us. Nevertheless, I don’t really wish to get into this with you, like I’ve stated previously, you and I hold opposing views as far as these scholars are concerned, I love and respect them, you are in agreement with the folks at troid.

 

Just like safar and salman, I will quote Hassan al-banna so long as what they are saying is not in contradiction with the diin.

 

 

Question : Is the “Da’wah and Tableegh†group one of the misguided groups? And what about Sufism?.

 

 

Answer :

Praise be to Allaah.

 

…..

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “The words al-faqr and al-tasawwuf (i.e., Sufism) may include some things that are loved by Allaah and His Messenger, and these are things that are enjoined even if they are called faqr or tasawwuf, because the Qur’aan and Sunnah indicate that they are mustahabb and that is not altered if they called by other names. That also includes actions of the heart such as repentance and patience. And it may include things that are hated by Allaah and His Messenger, such as some kinds of belief in incarnation and pantheism, or monasticism that has been innovated in Islam, or things that go against sharee’ah and have been innovated, and so on.

…

The wise believer agrees with all people in that in which they are in accordance with the Qur’aan and Sunnah and obey Allaah and His Messenger, but he does not agree with that in which they go against the Qur’aan and Sunnah and disobey Allaah and His Messenger. He accepts from every group that which was taught by the Messenger… when a person seeks the truth and justice, based on knowledge, he is one of the successful friends of Allaah and His victorious party…

 

4.

Sis Rahima why did u mention him out of all the scholars and talibul Ilm out there, this strikes me as odd, wallah !Do u know something i dont ?!? i really wanna know!

I’ll tell you why, because you have already told me that

 

as for dr.Saleh Saleh i have regular contact with him, inshallah i shall speak to him!

Anyway speak to him inshallah. Make sure that you fear Allah and tell the situation like it is. And do us the courtesy of bringing to us in writing (including the way you pose the question- many Muslims have the habit of distorting situation to suit their own purpose), it would be much appreciated.

[Salafi_Online]

Mashallah sister you have raised some strong points...allahu akbar, may Allah increase you in knowledge,ameen

 

We both claim to follow the Salaf us Saleeh, so inshallah lets see what the salaf have to say about these points you raised!

 

you said:

Is it permissible to give charity and financial help to one who follows some innovations?.

My response

 

The Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) said: " Every innovation is misguidance and every misguidance is in fire "

 

Sis, Is there a difference between a man who follows innovation unknowingly/due to ignorance and one who calls to innovation after being advice by the people of knowledge yet persist on his call? Im sure you will agree that there is ! Not everyone who follows innovation is an innovator;; not everyone who follows innovation is an innovator!

 

Let see what the salaf have to says about Hajr(boycotting) the innovators!

 

Hadith - Reported by Ibn Battah in al-Ibaanatul-Kubraa (no. 486)

Ibn 'Awn, rahimahullaah, said, " Whoever sits with the people of innovation is worse than them ."

 

Hadith - Reported by Ibn Abee Ya'laa in Tabaqaatul-Hanaabilah (1/223-234) in the

 

biography of 'Alee ibn Abee Khaalid

 

'Alee ibn Abee Khaalid said:

 

I said to Ahmad ibn Hanbal, "This old man -referring to an old man who was present with us and was a neighbour of mine - I have warned him against a person, but he would like to hear your saying about him. haarith al-Qaseer (meaning Haarith al-Mahaasibee) and you saw me with him many years ago and you said to me, 'Do not sit with him and do not speak to him.' I have not spoken to him from then until now, but this old man sits with him. What do you say about him (i.e. the innovator)?" I saw that Ahmad became red, his veins and his eyes swelled. I have never seen him like that before . Then he shuddered and said, "That is one to whom Allaah has done such and such. No one knows that except one who is fully acquainted with him. Alas! Alas! Alas! He is one not known except to one fully acquainted with him. He was the one whom al-Maghaazilee sat with and Ya'qoob and so and so. He lead them to having the views of Jahm. They were destroyed through him." So, the old man said, "O Abu' Abdullaah! He narrated hadeeth, displays dignity and fearfulness. He is such and such."

 

Abu 'Abdullaah became angry and said, " Do not be fooled by his fearfulness, nor his gentleness. Do not be fooled by how he droops his head. He is an evil person. This will not be known except by one well-acquainted with him. Do not sit with him, for there is no honour for him. Will you sit with everyone who narrated the ahaadeeth of Allaah's Messenger (saaws) and is an innovator?!"

 

 

Abdullaah ibn Abbaas (radiallaahu anhu) said, " do not sit with the people of innovation, "

 

[ash-Sharee'ah pg 65 of al-Aajurree

(d.360)]

 

Abul-Jawzaa 261 (Rahimahullaah) said, “That apes and pigs live next to

me is more loved by me than if one of them (i.e., People of Desires) lives next to me.

[From Ahmad Sa’d Hamdaan’s introduction to al-Laalikaa’ees Sharh Usoolil-I’tiqaad,

1/53-55 with modifications and additions]

 

Al-Fudayl ibn ‘Iyaad (d. 187H, Rahimahullaah) said: “It is not possible for a person of

the Sunnah to support a person of innovation except out of hypocrisy.†[sharh Usoolul-

I’tiqaad of al-Lailaka’ee (no. 266)]

 

Abu Moosaa (Rahimahullaah) said: “That I live next to a Jew and a Christian, and

monkeys and pigs, is more beloved to me than that if I were to live next to a follower of

desires (i.e. deviant), who will spread disease to my heart.†[Lamm Ad-Darr-ul-

Manthoor (pg. 47-49) and (pg. 58-60)]

 

Abû Qilâbah (d.140H) - rahimahullâh - said:

“Do not sit with the people of innovation, because I do not feel secure that they will not drown you in their misguidance and make part of what you used to know, unclear to you.â€

 

 

Ibn Awn (d.150H) - rahimahullâh - said:

“Whosoever sits with an innovator is worse than them.â€

 

It was said to Imâm al-Awzâ’î (d.157H) - rahimahullâh: A person says, ‘I sit with Ahlus-Sunnah and I sit with the innovators.’ So al-Awzâ’î said: “This person desires to fluctuate between the truth and falsehood.†[54] Commenting upon this saying, Ibn Battah said: “Al-Awzâ’î has indeed spoken the truth. And I say: Indeed this person does not know the truth corn falsehood, nor faith from disbelief.â€

 

Abû Dâwûd as-Sijjistânî (d.275H) said:

I said to Abû ’Abdullâh Ahmad ibn Hanbal: If I see a man from Ahlus-Sunnah sitting with a man from the people of Innovation, should I abandon speaking to him? He said: “No, you should first inform him that the one whom you saw him with is a person of innovation. Either he will cease speaking to the innovator - so continue speaking to him - or if not, then regard him to be like him. Ibn Mas’ûd said: A person is like his friend.†[59]

 

Indeed, the people of knowledge throughout the ages continued warning the masses against the innovators and considered this matter important enough to dedicate chapters in their various books about this. For example:-

 

Abû Dâwûd has a chapter in his Sunan (4/197): “Chapter: Turning away from the Innovators and having hatred for them.â€

 

Al-Hâfidh al-Mundharî (d.656H) in At-Targhîb wat-Tarhîb (3/14) has a chapter: “Deterrent against loving the people of Innovation, since a person will be with those whom they love.â€

 

Imân an-Nawawî (d.676H) mentions in al-Adkhâr (p.323): “Chapter: Dissociating from the people of Innovation and the people of Sin.â€

 

Imâm al-Baghawî (d.516H) - rahimahullâh - said:

“The Prophet sallallâhu ’alayhi wa sallam informed about the splitting of this Ummah and the appearance of innovations, and he stated that those who followed his Sunnah and the way of his Companions - may Allâh be pleased with them all - would be saved. So the Muslim, when he sees a person zealously engaged in any of these innovations out of belief, or taking any of the Sunnah lightly - must avoid him and be free of him, and abandon him, whether alive or dead. So he does not give salâm to him when he meets him, nor reply to it if he says it first - until he abandons his innovation and returns to the truth. And the forbiddance of avoiding for more than three days between two people refers to things that happen between people - not what is done for the sake of the Dîn - since avoiding people of innovation continues until they leave their innovation.†[60]

 

IMAAM IBNUL QAYYIM AL-JAWZIYYAH said “The war against the innovators is greater than the war against the Mushrikeen.â€

 

This noble imam would rather fight them and wage a war against them then fighting a kafir!

 

The Messenger (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) also warned against the People of Innovation, from befriending, supporting or taking from them saying: "Whoever innovates or accommodates an innovator then upon him is the curse of Allaah, His Angels and the whole of mankind." Reported by Bukhaaree (12/41) and Muslim (9/140)

 

So what is with Ahlus Sunnah in regards to Ahlul Biddah is that we do not accommodate

them, befriend them, praise them, visit them, or sit with them. We do not support them in

any way, because that would be supporting misguidance. Rather we abandon them,

expose them, rebuke them, intending that the innovation be subdued and destroyed by

either the repentance of the innovator or by the cutting off of the people from him.

So it is upon those who wish to be guided by Allaah subhanahu wa taa’la to stick firmly

to this way, this methodology and not to innovate in it at all.

Would you befriend a man, and study from him, and sit with him, and visit him if he was

calling people to fornication? What about if he was calling to drinking alcohol? So what

is to be one’s position towards the person who calls to what is even more wicked and

detestable? And in his footsteps, we find the Noble Companions and the Taabi'een after them warning from the danger of innovations upon the Ummah, its people and their unity, since it is innovations which have divided the Ummah and split it asunder.

The Scholars of Ahlus Sunnah from the time of the Salaf set an excellent example of how

the Sunnah of abandoning innovators is actualized.

 

 

Questions and Answers on Manhaj

By: Shaikh Muhammad Musa Nasr

Source: Private Session with SSNA presenting

Questions we took over E-Mail (January 2001)

 

 

Question: After giving someone advice for over four months on correcting their misconceptions about Islaam, when is it permissible to just give them their rights and not socialize with them?

 

 

Answer: The Muslim must not despair about his brother, and he must advise him until he feels that it is not likely that he will answer to the Call (da'wah) - meaning that it becomes confirmed in his mind that he has completely rejected it. So at this point, he must show him his hate for the sake of Allaah, and boycott him, and warn against him and not eat with him nor accompany him. And it is permissible for him to boycott him religiously, so when he sees him he doesn't give Salaam to him and if he is sick, he doesn't visit him - this is after the proof is established against him. And Allaah does not burden a soul with more responsibility than it can handle.

 

 

Question:

How should we deal with innovators?

 

 

Answer:

 

If it is confirmed that they are innovators, then we must advise them and forbid them from the innovations…and the one who persists after being told, we show enmity towards him and are not gentle with him, because the person that respects and praises an innovator, he has assisted in the destruction of Islaam.

the fact that they follow bid’ah does not mean that we are not allowed to help them. They should be helped against their kaafir enemies because they are undoubtedly better than those kuffaar. Al-Baab al-Maftooh, 1/66

 

the fact that they follow bid’ah does not mean that we are not allowed to help them. They should be helped against their kaafir enemies because they are undoubtedly better than those kuffaar. Al-Baab al-Maftooh, 1/66

the people of knowledge near me have said this is pertaining to those individuals who do not call to innovation, as clearly seen from fatwa , but instead follow innovation, for not everyone who follows innovation is an innovator, and this fatwah of the noble Shaykh was in regards to fighting in jihad with those who do not call to innovation, but may have fallen into some innovation!

 

This should suffice, this is the way of the salaf us SaleeX, the stands of the righteous on the people of innovation concerning UNITY, these are my stands regarding Ahlul Bi’dah wa Dhalala, this inshalah what I traverse upon !

 

 

Your second point!

 

 

(1)

 

Does the practice of Rib’a bank mean that Saudiyah is ruling with kafir laws(judgement) now, for the one who practices Ri’ba does not mean he necessarily believes it to be halal, I put forward an example, a brother drinks and does adultery, yet he says I know this is haram, but im too weak, my iman is too low to control myself, then has he not sinned? but if he said, no adultery is halal and drinking is haalal, nothing wrong with it, then he has made that which is Haaram Halaal and he has uttered a statement of kufr, so for a ruler to practice/establish Rib’a yet he believes in his heart or better yet declares it in the open with his tongue to be Haram, does it all of a sudden mean the whole land is under kafir laws?!? This is a fair assessment?

 

I gave you the fatwah of shaykh Muqbil and what he had to say about the Kingdom, and lived in the land and exiled from that land, he knows the bank system in Saudiyah and what the shariyah entails, yet Rahima you have not to given me the slightest insight on his fatwah! Nonetheless Shaykh Fawzan who is on the permanent committee says concerning the land of tawheed!

 

Shaykh Fawzan :

 

 

Shaikh Saaleh al-Fawzan was asked,

 

“What is your advice to the one who says that this dawlah (state of Saudi Arabia) wages a war against the religion and causes repression

 

And he replied,

 

“The Saudi state ever since it began has always aided the religion and

its adherents. And it was not founded except upon this basis. And whatever it does at

the moment in spending material wealth to support Muslims in every place, setting up

centres and mosques, sending du’at (to other countries), printing books – at the

forefront of which is the Noble Qur’an -, opening centres of learning and faculties of

knowledge, and its judging by the Islamic Shari’ah (Tahkeemuhaa lish-Sharee’at il-

Islaamiyyah), and also setting up a separate body for enjoining the good and

forbidding the evil in every city – then all of this is a clear and evident proof of it’s aid

to Islam and its adherents. And this is thorn (shajiyyun, lit. grievance, distress) in the

throats of the people of hypocrisy (Ahl un-Nifaq) and the people of evil and dissension

(Shiqaq). And Allaah is the Aider of His religion even if the pagans and the biased

 

partisans may detest it. And we do not say that this state is perfect from every single

aspect and that it does not have any mistakes. Mistakes occur by every single person

and we ask Allaah that he helps this state in correcting its mistakes.

But if this person (who makes such a claim) was to look at his own self, he would find

mistakes that would prevent his tongue from speaking about others and make him feel

ashamed of looking at others.†[Al-Ajwibah al-Mufidah of Jamal bin Farihan al-Harithi]

 

 

with that said, you have you opinion about the land of tawheed, and so does everyone else, there is a saying that goes like this " opinions are like (_____)EVeryone has one"

 

BUt I on the other hand hold fast on the speech from the kibar Ulama , for a man once came to Sufyan Athwari(rahimullah) of of the greatest salaf and said to him,†Oh sufyan teaches me something so that I can act upon it and so that if I’m questioned by Allah the most High and majestic I will tell him Sufyan Athwari taught me so that he should question you…So Sufyan taught him what which Allah willed him to teach. then said to the men ,â€Go and if you are question about that which I have taught, then leave me to my lord â€

 

As for which scholars, firstly I respect and love both shaykh salman and safar and would quote them if the need arose. You my brother do not and can’t seem to comprehend the difference between refutation of a particular point and complete disagreement and attack of caqiidah. I suggest you read up more about refutations, you might begin to see that scholars do not always see eye to eye on everything and we as lay man should not jump on the banwagon of disrespect but rather respect those who have more knowledge than us. Nevertheless, I don’t really wish to get into this with you, like I’ve stated previously, you and I hold opposing views as far as these scholars are concerned, I love and respect them, you are in agreement with the folks at troid.

how this is relevant to the discussion? My beloved sister, You can love, embrace, and follow whomever you like, this is not the issue, The salaf used to say, “the isnad is the weapon of a believe, SO STATE YOUR MEN †I simply suggested that you refrain from “scholars said this, scholars said that†habit!

 

The wise believer agrees with all people in that in which they are in accordance with the Qur’aan and Sunnah and obey Allaah and His Messenger, but he does not agree with that in which they go against the Qur’aan and Sunnah and disobey Allaah and His Messenger. He accepts from every group that which was taught by the Messenger… when a person seeks the truth and justice, based on knowledge, he is one of the successful friends of Allaah and His victorious party…

I asked you the following question, †do you take from everyone, innovators as well?

 

Your reply: †Yes I do, so long as that particular point is in accordance and does not contradict the established Q & S.â€

and you used the above quotes as your evidence, the one that starts with..."A wise believer"....!

 

this is in accordance with position of the salaf?

 

seeking 'ilm from ahlus biddah is not found upon the way of the Salaf(not one single prove), Whatever Ahlul bid'ah has of good than it is because of that little the sunnah they apply, which is already found with the people of the sunnah who are not known for innovation. It is because Ahlul Bi’ah follows the sunnah in that particular affair only. So why take this good that has evil mixed with since you might not be able to distinguish for yourself the good from the evil. Whatever good found with the people of bid'ah than ahlus sunnah has that and more and more and more of it. why not drink from the pure cup!

 

general speech is not to be applied in a specific ways Sister as for confirming/or agreeing and accepting the truth then Ahlul Sunnah does so when it is for us or even when its against us, meaning we narrate everything that which is for us or against us, unlike ahlul biddah who will hide that which does not confirm or go their way.

 

 

The salaf position: Reading/or looking into the books of the innovators

 

Ibn Qudaamah said,†the salaf used to prohibit sitting with the people of innovation and looking into their books, and listening to their words†23

 

Ibn Jaweez Mindaad said Imam Malik ibn Anas (d179), “It is not permissible to look into anything from the books of the people of desires, innovations and astrologyâ€25

 

 

Hadith - Al-Tirmidhi #5142, Narrated AbuBakr as-Siddiq

" I heard Allah's Messenger SAAWS say, "When people see something objectionable and do not change it, Allah will soon include them all in His punishment." [ibn Majah and Tirmidhi, who declared it to be sahih, transmitted it.]

 

 

more Prove:

 

Questions and Answers on Manhaj

By: Shaikh Muhammad Musa Nasr

Source: Private Session with SSNA presenting

Questions we took over E-Mail (January 2001)

 

Question:

 

How should one make Hajar (boycotting) of a Person of Innovation? Clarify the point on avoiding reading books written by people who have left the correct Manhaj. Is it permissible to read their books if it is not on the subject of their misguidance (going astray). If not what about their argument that Imaam Al-Bukhaaree had an incorrect belief – that one’s recitation of the Qur’aan was created - so why do you read books written by this Imaam?

 

 

Answer:

 

First of all, taking from the books of the People of Innovation, this is for the scholars. For it is the scholar who will distinguish between the good and the bad. As for if the person is unlettered, ignorant or a beginning student of knowledge, then we advise him to not look into the books of the innovators, because they will put doubts into him that will corrupt his Religion. As for the people of knowledge and the scholars, then they know the good from the bad. This is why Abu Al-Munayyir said: “I have closely examined the Tafseer of Az-Zamakhsharee and taken out its deficiencies with a rake (i.e. with scrutiny).â€

So when the scholar looks into the books of the innovators, he is able to distinguish between what is correct and acceptable and what is wrong and rejected. As for if he is weak in knowledge, then he is not to read these books and he is only to take what is pure.

 

 

As for what is attributed to Imaam Al-Bukhaaree that he said: “My recitation of the Qur'aan is createdâ€, then this is a slander and a lie against him. This is only from his opponents, which they conspired against him and which they invented for him and attributed to him. But he is free from this, as can be seen in his biography found in As-Siyar (Siyar A'alaam An-Nubalaa of Imaam Adh-Dhahabee) as well as other biographical collections.

 

Hamdam Khateeran tayiban mubaraka fee Kama Yuhibu Rabbuna Wa Yarda!