Somalia: Better Off under Islamic Courts?

[Abwaan]

By David Axe September 26, 2007 | 11:36:00 AMCategories: Mullah Menace

 

"Somalia was named and shamed Tuesday as the worst-governed country in sub-Saharan Africa in a survey of political performance across the continent," AFP reports:

 

The inaugural annual Ibrahim Index of African Governance, published by the Mo Ibrahim Foundation, ranks 48 countries against 58 individual measures. The foundation uses those measures to rank countries on five factors: safety and security; rule of law, transparency and corruption; participation and human rights; sustainable economic opportunity; and human development. The bottom five were Guinea-Bissau (42.7), Sudan (40.0), Chad (38.8), the Democratic Republic of Congo (38.6) and Somalia (28.1).

Somalia's problems? A lot like Iraq's, in fact: a growing Islamic insurgency and a government that lacks consensus. With Mogadishu still wracked by violence 10 months after the fall of the hardline Islamic Courts regime, some observers wonder if the country wasn't better off under the extremists. One pro-Courts news service touted the benefits of security just a month before the U.S.-backed Ethiopian invasion that toppled the Islamic government:

A prevailing sense of peace and security felt in many parts of the once lawless Somalia since the rise of the Supreme Islamic Council of Somalia (SICS) is increasingly attracting foreign investors back to the Horn of African country. ... [F]oreign investors are able to move in the Mogadishu streets without the help of gunmen. The SICS has also re-opened Mogadishu's port and airport, where a "Let us build Somalia together" sign hangs high. Both had been closed for over a decade. Since the SICS started issuing visas, flights to and from Kenya and Dubai have been full of curious investors and returning refugees.

"The best antidote to terrorism, according to Horn of Africa analysts, is stability in Somalia, which the Islamic Courts had provided," according to one Nairobi paper:

 

As in other Muslim-Western conflicts, the world undoubtedly needs to engage with the Islamists to secure peace. ... The objective for the United States ... is simply to prevent Somalia from being an unwilling haven for terrorist groups linked to Al-Qaeda. To pursue that objective, the United States is handicapped by the fact that state authority is limited to only portions of the country. The United States has everything to gain from the formation of a broad-based all inclusive government and a stable Somalia.

 

But that means negotiating with extremists. And we don't do that, do we?

[xiinfaniin]

Without exaggeration, Somalis in the south were better under the Courts rule than they are today--many folds better. One would even mock the comparison. Also, Somalis in other parts of the country were also beginning to welcome the winds of change.

 

That was yesterday. Come today and the country is sadly slipping back into anarchy. Even the so-called pockets of stability in the north & east are experiencing subtle political upheavals. New Ethiopian military divisions have been reportedly entering the country since last week. The incompetent leaders of the tfg regime are at war with each other and are oblivious to the fact that they are under foreign power. Al shabaabs are doing what they are good at, fighting and destroying.

 

But as much as we despise Ethiopia’s mingling and support those who resist it, we can’t easily escape from the fact that Al shabaabs of this world in their current strategy fall way short in attaining the objectives we all wish and desire. The Asmara team seems to have lost the moment and succumbed to foreign pressure and compromised its leadership structure. Men with no credential or credibility emerged as its lead functions.

 

Ubadkiinnii waad daadiseen waana dubateene

Dubaaxdiisii waad wada cunteen duhur dharaareede

Dariiq toosan Soomaaliyey waa lagaa dedaye

Darajada Ilaahay ninkii doonayaa hela e

Nin ka duday distoorkiyo waxyiga diintii ka carrowye ~~~

by A Suldan Timacadde

[Kashafa]

But as much as we despise Ethiopia’s

mingling

and support those who resist it

Terminology-ga aa saxno horta. It's not mingling, or assitance, or support for the TFG. It's an occupation, abti. Gumeysi. Ixtilaal. Plain and simple. When Ethiopian soldiers setup camps all over Somalia, free to go when and where they wish, appointing and demoting leaders at whim, mingling that is not.

 

The Asmara team seems to have lost the moment and succumbed to foreign pressure and compromised its leadership structure. Men with no credential or credibility emerged as its lead functions

You're holding on to trifling grievances(justifiable ones, but still, very very trifling) that Socod and Paragon have rebutted at length in the other thread, laakin ka gudub. The million shilling question: Do you have an alternative ? I hear a loud Maya. Asmara, ugly as it is, is what you got. Give it all the constructive criticism you got, but you have no choice but to embrace it.......wholeheartedly. Waa hadaa serious tahay(which I don't doubt) The only other option is the one made by brothaman me: Sit by the sidelines and 'wait' till 'acceptable'(to one's psyche) leaders somehow magically form a liberation army. Where will these 'acceptable' leaders come from, and more importantly when ? Oh, nobody knows, it's just the politically correct answer. Wash your hands of the 'unacceptable' Asmara leaders, ditto the traitors of the TFG, and just wait till Neo, The One, comes along with a merry band of ethically and morally correct heroes to save the day.

 

You're losing ur shine, Xiin-ka. Keep this 'non-reality' based reasoning up, and I'll be forced to strike you off my list of potential presidential candidates. You're in danger of losing the most critical voting bloc: Realists.

 

My advice ? Baashi"Peace at any cost" Muhandis is a bad influence, ka gambi

[Gabbal]

Certainly Mogadishu was, but I can't think of any other place in the country.

[Paragon]

Kashafa:

just wait till Neo, The One, comes along with a merry band of ethically and morally correct heroes to save the day.

Lol@Neo, The One. Hail Marry, all ye Matrix fans .

[xiinfaniin]

You are falling into the same trap and buying the same argument tfgers presented to us in the peak of their little victory and right after the Courts military defeat,yaa Kashafa. If you oppose this one (tfg) what is the alternative they asked. The alternative is very simple in concept yet it’s harder, as ever, in implementation: find and search a legitimate leadership who can play this vital role of restoring Somalia’s lost dignity. Be for something instead of being against someone or entity. Recycling flaming warlords in the name of convenience and practicality wont do it. Mar idage Allah dago mar labaad idagase anaa is dagay, is the terse of the day. Kashafa, Goals should never justify your means. There were far better opportunities for the Islamic Courts to snatch and make a deal with the devil so to speak if minor political plotting were what they were after.

 

Adeer this is a serious blow to whatever hope I have (or many have) for the Asmara team. Yesterday’s traitors are sitting right among what I considered the pious few this sahwah had. Men whose relationship with Ethiopia has been in the public domain have been assigned to serious functions in this effort. What guarantees do you have that they wont revert to their ways? How do you trust them? What happens when foreign embassies approach them with the goods they worship and debrief them? How does the clan card play in these appointments? Does Ethiopia occupy the whole country or certain parts in the south?

 

As for Ethiopia’s occupation though I have no problem with the term, I don’t see any particular value in emphasizing its usage for Ethiopia’s influence has been there way before Courts defeat. But to me the role it played remain the same---before and after Courts fall. I don’t believe its current role is sustainable. Ethiopia will leave either by force or by political conviction that it can’t hold Somalia down for any longer. It’s the form and the shape of Somalia after its departure that’s important to device and plan for.

 

Lets pray for a lasting solution.

[Kashafa]

Originally posted by HornAfrique:

Certainly Mogadishu was, but I can't think of any other place in the country.

For starters: Kismayo and Jilib. There are news article and reports by the LA Times and Reuters where the residents of those two cities are interviewd where they talk about their yearning for the days when the Islamic Courts ruled and Sharia law was implemented = No more roadblocks(isbaaros), no more clan militia, no more narcotics and jaat.

[Gabbal]

Clearly we are not on the same page. You are coming from selective justice point of view. It is like Duke seeing Mogadishu as peaceful while you see it in turmoil and that, adeer, I explain it as failure to empathize with those out of your clan circles.

 

Kismaayo is more peaceful today than it has ever been before anytime in recent history especially since the 80's. Sharia Law is implemented and not a whisper arises from the city. That is the fact not when the cimaamad wearing former thugs were prancing around the strategically vacated city rounding up women and children to arrest and burning our flags. What peace has Kismaayo seen throughout the nightmarish ordeal of the Foreign occupation? When did protests, bomb attacks, and the likes cease throughout the short-lived occupation by former thugs and their hired foreign mercenaries?

 

Young man I suggest you keep to that which you are informed of.

 

 

Xabashga Eritrea hadaad Kismaayo la rabtay maxaad maalin walbaaba Xabashaga Ethiopia uga qaylisaa?

 

Nin walba tiisuu halaa ka mucjisada Alle ku dhacdayne waw shaqaystay adeer. Simple as that.

 

 

^^That was Kismaayo under the occupation of the thugs and foreign mercenaries adeer. If you say their concerns were not legitimate, than you are admitting your failure to empathize with those out of your clan circles which is the same reason that leads Duke to say all is well in Mogadishu today. Either way, it is of no concern, the reality exists and cannot be changed.

[Kashafa]

Yesterday’s traitors are sitting right among what I considered the pious few this sahwah had. Men whose relationship with Ethiopia has been in the public domain have been assigned to serious functions in this effort. What guarantees do you have that they wont revert to their ways? How do you trust them? What happens when foreign embassies approach them with the goods they worship and debrief them? How does the clan card play in these appointments? Does Ethiopia occupy the whole country or certain parts in the south?

Some very good questions. Let's take a flashback into the Seerah of the Prophet and see if we can glean any answers.

 

Ibn Salool, head of the Munafiqeen in Madeenah. A man who plotted to have the Prophet killed many times. A man who was actively consipiring to destroy the budding Islamic state. I could go on but you get the picture. Guess what ? Not only was he tolerated, but he kept his leadership position. The companions were furious and wanted to kill this cancer growing in the middle of them. The Prophet refused. Why, yaa Xiin ? For the Greater Good. That practicallity and strategical long-term thinking would be repeated many times throughout the Prophet's life. When he signed a treaty of alliance with the Jewish tribes residing in Madeenah(after which, they conspired to kill him and attack the Muslims from behind when Madeenah was besieged). When he signed the Truce of Hudaybiyah where to the shallow onlooker, it appeared the Muslims accepted weak terms and lost. Pragmatism and practicality, time and again. Not at the expense of principles and values, but in conjunction with them.

 

Fast-forwad to today and the Asmara conference. Can you see the parallels ? It's easy to complain about this or that, but the fact remains: The Islamic Courts are the main force in Asmara. They're running the show. Aideed, Indocadde, what-have-you, were appointed for a purpose. Your objections would be valid if they were appointed in a peace-time setting, but we're at war, brother. The theatre of war is now centered in Mogadisho and hence, everything that is conducive to that effort will be done.

 

Including appointing Aideed and Idacadde to positions of leadership. Gotta think long and large. Not short and shallow.

 

One more flashback: The young Islamic state in Madeenah is surrounded by an army of 20,000 Arabs, an alliance that threatens to annhilate the small community of believers from the face of the earth. The Muslim rear flanks(where the women and children are) are exposed. The Jewish tribes have reneged on their treaty and are now on the verge of attacking from behind. Death stares at the Muslims from every angle. That's the dire situation when a man steps to the Prophet. He says he became a Muslim and wants to help disband the alliance and asks for permission *to lie* The prophet replies with the famous Hadeeth. "Al-Xarbu Khidca".(War is deceit) Our hero goes and lies and cheats his way to disbanding the 20,000 strong alliance and sowing mistrust and enmity between them. The alliance falls. One by one the Arab tribes pack their bags and go home. Al-xamdulilah Madeenah stands.

 

War. Is. Deceit. We're at war, brudda, with all it's ugliness and dirt.

 

And we will win, inshallah.

[Kashafa]

Xabashga Eritrea hadaad Kismaayo la rabtay

, maxaad maalin walbaaba Xabashaga Ethiopia uga qaylisaa

Loooooooooooooooool@Horn. Abti, Sii fiican aa iga qoslisay. Waxaad keento-ba, hada golaha SOL politics section waxaa lasoo staagtay Eriteria aa qabsatay Kismayo ? You one funny cat, yo.

 

That's an interesting document you got there. Source ? and edit it so that it fits the page better.

[Gabbal]

Originally posted by Kashafa:

quote:

Xabashga Eritrea hadaad Kismaayo la rabtay

, maxaad maalin walbaaba Xabashaga Ethiopia uga qaylisaa

Loooooooooooooooool@Horn. Abti, Sii fiican aa iga qoslisay. Waxaad keento-ba, hada golaha SOL politics section waxaa lasoo staagtay Eriteria aa qabsatay Kismayo ?

You one funny cat, yo.

 

That's an interesting document you got there. Source ? and edit it so that it fits the page better.

What is there to laugh at? Gedonet wrote of the massive foreign presence the day of the invasion and this excerpt, from the United Nations arm embargo monitoring group, verifies it.

 

You have no reason to be talking of Ethiopia, if you support Eritrean meddling in Somali affairs.

[Armchair Politician]

Isn't that the same document that claimed the UIC was fighting in Lebanon? And that the whole Arab world was giving UIC weapons? That document?

[Paragon]

And we will win, inshallah.

Insha-Allaahu, the victory would be ours.

[Gabbal]

Originally posted by Armchair Politician:

Isn't that the same document that claimed the UIC was fighting in Lebanon? And that the whole Arab world was giving UIC weapons? That document?

The same one that also accused and documented Ethiopia of massive interference in support of the TFG even when Ethiopia was denying any presence on Somali soil.

 

Yes, the same one produced by the independent United Nations Somalia Arms Embargo monitoring group that reports to the U.N security council.

 

If you know, why ask?

[Paragon]

^^Independent UN Somalia arms embargo monitary group?