Oneness of Allah (SWT)

[Viking]

Understanding Allah (SWT) can be so difficult to some of us but maybe simple for others to grasp. Every generation of human beings have pondered on the nature of The Divine Essense...

 

 

- He is with everything but not in the sense of [physical] nearness. He is different from every thing but not in the sense of separation.

 

- He is not inside things in the sense of physical [pervasion or] penetration, and is not outside them in the sense of [physical] exclusion [for exclusion entails a kind of finitude].

 

- He is distinct from things because He overpowers them, and the things are distinct from Him because of their subjection to Him.

 

- He is the One, but not in a numerical sense.

 

- He is not confined by limits nor counted by numbers.

 

- He who points to Him, admits for Him limitations; and he who admits limitations for Him has numbered Him.

 

- He who qualifies Him limits Him. He who limits Him numbers Him. He who numbers Him denies His pre-eternity.

 

- Everything associated with unity is deficient except Him.

 

By...Imam Ali (RA)

 

 

Suratul Ikhlaas states the foremost and fundamental doctrine of Islam (viz. Tawheed) in four such brief sentences as are immediately impressed on human memory and can be read and recited easily. It came at a time when people were idolatrous polytheists and Christians and Jews believed The messiah and Ezra to be sons of God.

 

1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

 

2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

 

3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

 

4. And there is none like unto Him.

 

 

Surah Ikhlaas 112. The Unity, Sincerity, Oneness Of Allah.

 

 

I feel like I can understand the nature of Allah (SWT), but then at the same moment I feel I can't. It's a total sense of ambivalence on my side which continues to fluctuate, no matter how much I reflect.

[Salafi_Online]

Innalhamdulillah

 

 

The Prophet, peace be upon him, said: "reflect about the signs of Allah, the Almighty, do not reflect about Allah ." (Saheeh Al-Jami' 2975)

 

Plus i would like to get a reference for that above Quote by Imam Ali, I am Assuming its Ali Ibn Talib(RA) you are refering to....If not please clearify.

[Baashi]

Viking,

I don’t understand some of the natural phenomena (His creations) around us let alone His essence. I’ve accepted my limited capacity to understand, explain, and make sense of many things. I read books to advance my knowledge of the things that interest me but then again I realize that what I’m reading is only the thoughts of another fallible human being perhaps smarter but nevertheless fallible who had jotted down his take on that subject matter. I made habit of putting the mysterious and unexplainable things such us the one you've pondered on into the basket of the Unknowns. The essence of Allah - His beginning, His image - is Unknown. The little we know is what he revealed about Himself in the sura you yourself quoted. The danger is when you try to get answers on everything that crosses your mind.

[Viking]

Salafi_Online,

It is indeed Ali bin Abu Talib (RA), gotten from the Nahj al-balaghah.

 

Baashi,

I understand what you are saying sxb. I have a friend who was recently trying to explain to me about hadrons and quarks and that seemed far fethced for me but it is basic knowledge to the scientists of today.

 

We are unable to attain complete, comprehensive and profound knowledge of Allah (SWT), but that does not mean we are deprived of any form of knowledge. Allah (SWT) says in the Holy Qura'n...

 

"Did man emerge from non-being through his own devices? Was he his own creator? Did mankind create the heavens and earth? Certainly they do not know God." (Qur'an 52:35-36)

 

 

This verse challenges us to think about how we came about to this world and acknowledgesthe powers of the Creator. Allah (SWT) also says...

 

 

"Your God is but one God. There is nogod other than Him, Compassionate and Merciful. In the aeation of the heavens and the earth, in the alternation of night and day, in the ships that ply the seas to the benefit of man, in the water sent down from the heavens to revive the earth after its death, in the different species of animals scattered across the earth, in the rotation of the winds, in the clouds that are subordinate to God's command between heaven and earth, in all of this, there are signs for men who use their intellects." (2:163-164) "Tell men to reflect with care and see what things the heavens and the earth contain." (Qura'n 10:101)

 

Allah (SWT) wants us to reflect and draw conclusions. There are numerosu verses in the The Holy Qura'n which tells us about our Creator...

 

"He is God, the One other than Whom there is no god, the knower of the hidden and the manifest, the Compassionate, the Merciful. He is God, the One other than Whom there is no god, the Commander, the All-powerful, Pure and Without Defect, the Bestower of Safety, the Protector, the Precious, the Mighty, the Sublime, the Most Elevated. Exempt and purified be He from the partners which they ascribe to Him."(Qura'n 59:22-23)

 

I would like to say the Essence of Allah is unknown, but aren't we disregarding something very important here? We might not be able to comprehend Allah (SWT) fully, but I think that we should not be discouraged from using the little capacity of comprehension we have.

[Miriam1]

Enjoyed reading all of your thoughts, its true that we has a people cannot fully fathom the greatness of Allah (SWT) however the simple knowledge of a greater existence, is very comforting, the knowledge that this world isnt it, isnt everything. Its reasuring that there is a plan to it all, and we arent roaming around blindly. It calms the heart.

Did i ramble on? heh.

On another note.

I pity people who have read the Quran from cover to cover, and yet feel nothing, like my supervisor. wonder what they need for thier hearts to be moved,its shocking, for if they arent transported by the word of Allah, then simple and great meanings of the miracles around us is lost on them.

 

[Salafi_Online]

Innalhamdalilah....

 

Viking there are few things on your post that i can't apprenhend.

 

"And of knowledge, you (mankind) have been given only a little."

 

We might not be able to comprehend Allah (SWT) fully

We can not comprehend Allah AT ALL!

 

"There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer.(42:11)

 

If there is nothing like him, nothing at all, Then how can You comprehend that which your mind can not conceive?

 

Futhermore that Ayat, 52:35, is directed to the Kafireen, who reject the existence of Allah, As for the Mu'min, Allah informed us of our creation, how Adam was created and then us..and how we were formed..the whole 9 years....

 

Futhermore We can not make our own tafsir of the quran.

 

This is why we must Clich to the narration of the messenger of Allah(saas) when he said "do not reflect about Allah or ponder About Allah, rather reflect on his creation"

 

note:

this book: Nahj al-balaghah

It does not ring a bell, please enlighten me Viking, Could it be a Shia book?

[Viking]

Salafi_Online,

Sxb, why don't you quote what I said fully? This is what I said, "We might not be able to comprehend Allah (SWT) fully, but I think that we should not be discouraged from using the little capacity of comprehension we have."

 

I might be wrong in trying to comprehend the Creator, but it is difficult to avoid that kind of reflection. When I think about the purpose of life, the bounties of Allah (SWT), our duties and obligations, The Holy Qura'n and everything else within our universe, it is difficult not to think about the Divine Essence of Allah (SWT).

 

 

this book: Nahj al-balaghah

It does not ring a bell, please enlighten me Viking, Could it be a Shia book?

It is a compilation of sermons of Imam Ali bin Abu Talib (RA).

 

There's a hadith of our Noble Prophet (PBUH) that says... "I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate".

 

So sxb, please don't limit yourself to Salafi books only. Actually bro Nur recommended Nahj al-balaghah a couple of years ago when we were discussing the issue of madhabs at Somalinet.

[Nur]

Viking Bro.

 

 

Speaking about Allah you write:

 

" He is the One, but not in a numerical sense."

 

Answer:

 

We learned that Allah is THE ONE AND ONLY, in every sense, He is singular, unity

 

May I ask, what other sennse is there to make him plural, are you suggesting that the Imaams are also Devine because they are Macsuum ( infallible like the Christian Popes), thus, part of Allah SWT?

 

 

You write:

 

- He is not confined by limits nor counted by numbers.

 

Answer:

 

You are mixing a true statement with a false one, Allah says : " The Christians say Allah is the third of a threesome," " He corrected them in more than one place : " That Allah is One", mystifying and complicating the simplicity of Tawheed by saying the oneness of Allah SWT is a puzzle, has a dangerous spinoff, justifying Shirk (polytheism),which implies, that although the Christians worship three, in essence they are worshipping one God. Allah SWT is ONE in everysense, never a plural entity and anyone who believes that Allah SWT could be plural is not a Muslim at all.

 

 

You Write:

 

- He who points to Him, admits for Him limitations; and he who admits limitations for Him has numbered Him."

 

 

Answer:

 

We only say about Allah SWT , what Allah SWT said about himself, not more not less, in the context he meant, in the plain language of the Arabic that He revealed his Holy Quraan, which the Shia believe not to be complete, and the Sunnah of Prophet Muhamded which the Shia again also do not recognize, isntead, their sources are said to be the Infallible Devine Imaams, who know the Ghaib, answer prayers and help the needy, ( all substantiated) who are devine in nature, the Imaams, according to the Ithnaa Casharai Shia Schools of thought, not only believe that the imaams are infallible, and eternal, they also believe that they are part of Allah SWT, ( Sources available, can be posted) as Sheikh Kuleiny Wrote that Allah said " Lowlaak lowlaak ma khalaqtul aflaak" meaning O Mohammad, if it was not for you, I would not ahve created the Galaxies, and if it was not for Ali, I would not have created you, and if it was not for Fatima, I would not have created both of you" ( Sources availabale)

 

 

You write:

 

- He who qualifies Him limits Him. He who limits Him numbers Him. He who numbers Him denies His pre-eternity.

 

Answer:

 

Pre-eternity is language acrobatis, eternity implies no begining and no end, Pre, is an English word that connotes existence of something before something, those who write blasphemy need to be more clever.

 

As Muslims, we Only describe Allah SWT exactly how He decribes himself in the Quraan, in the contexct He meant, never we dare to say something He never said about Himself, like the above statement of yours, however, I agree with you , we do not comprehend the HOWs of His self decsription, discussion it, though is innovation ind Islam, no one of the companiuons dared to indulge in such useless philosophical issues outside of the sphere of our responsibility as servants of Allah SWT. Allah's qualities are his sphere of His concern, not ours, we only speak to repeat waht He described Himself only.

 

 

You Write:

 

 

- Everything associated with unity is deficient except Him.

 

 

Answer:

 

Allah is not associated with unity, His creatures are, Allah is One, and his unity is inseparable quality from His essnece, how can you remove His names and qualities from Him? removing the unity quality from Allah makes him a plural, another loop hole to make shirk justifiable.

 

 

Nur

[Viking]

" He is the One, but not in a numerical sense."

 

We learned that Allah is THE ONE AND ONLY, in every sense, He is singular, unity

 

May I ask, what other sennse is there to make him plural, are you suggesting that the Imaams are also Devine because they are Macsuum, thus, part of Allah SWT?

No one is attempting to make Him plural. He is One, but NOT the first when counting. Not ONE in the sense that there is two and three. One, one and only, AHAD.

 

 

- "He who points to Him, admits for Him limitations; and he who admits limitations for Him has numbered Him."

Your respone to this statement is quite urrelevant sxb. What has it got to do with the Shi'a beliefs about the Qura'n and Hadith? That statement is ONLY about Allah (SWT) showing that He has no limitations.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- Answer: You are mixing a true statement with a false one, Allah says : " The Christians say Allah is the third of a threesome," " He corrected them in more than one place : " That Allah is One", mystifying and complicating the simplicity of Tawheed by saying the oneness of allah SWT is a puzzle, has one spinoff, justifying Shirk, that although the Christians worship three, in essence they are worshipping one God. Allah SWT is ONE in everysense, never a plural entity and anyone who believes that Allah SWT could be plural is no aa Muslim at all.

This statement confirms what you have just said. Allah (SWT) is not counted by numbers, you can NOT say he is one in a numerical sense. Allah (SWT's) Oneness has no singularity nor plurality.

 

"He is not confined by limits nor counted by numbers."

 

What part of this statement do you have a problem with?

 

 

 

Answer: We Only describe Allah exactly how He decribes himself in the Quraan, in the contexct He meant, never say something He never say about Himself...

That is the whole point with the statement. One cannot describe Allah (SWT) because that will be limiting Him. And if you limit Him, you number Him, and if you number Him has rejected his eternity.

 

 

 

 

 

Allah is not associated with unity, His creatures are, Allah is One, and his unity is inseparable quality from His essnece, removing the unity quality from Allah makes him a plural, another loophoe to make shirk.

Everything associated with unity is deficient except Him.

 

This sentence is very deep. Divine Unity is not a numerical notion here sxb. His Unity lies in His Greatness and Infinity, not comparable to anything. Everything except the Divine Essence is limited if it is one.

 

 

You even used the word Unity describing Allah (SWT) when you said...

 

 

 

 

 

We learned that Allah is THE ONE AND ONLY, in every sense, He is singular, unity

[Salafi_Online]

Innalhamdulillah..

 

Akhee, book Nahj al-Balagha is a Shi'ee book, i did some research, they only use it, The Sunni Scholars do not refer to it , for it contains Many if not all Weak, fabricated Ahadith,

 

Lastly, You say!

 

I might be wrong in trying to comprehend the Creator, but it is difficult to avoid that kind of reflection. When I think about the purpose of life, the bounties of Allah (SWT), our duties and obligations, The Holy Qura'n and everything else within our universe, it is difficult not to think about the Divine Essence of Allah (SWT).

Bro, No matter what you do, you will never comprehend the creator,

I think about the purpose of life,

you think about the purpose of life? Allah said," I have not created manking and jinns except that they worship me."51:55

 

What is there to think about....the map to worshiping Allah has been layed down by the quran and SUnnah....So Viking what are you thinking about? Didnt you HEar the ayat, "We hear and we obey"...Just do as your told is our duties in this life!

 

As for those Quotes by Imam(and Sunnies dont refer to him as Imam, this is prevailing custom of the Shias).... I truly dont believe he said such words, free he is from such rethoric.

[Viking]

Salafi_Online,

Again, you are doing the annoying act of quoting only part of what I said. By doing that, you disregard what I was trying to convey and therein lose the context. Allah (SWT) does tell us to reflect; reflection is a form of 'ibada. Now take a deep breath and read what I said...

 

When I think about the purpose of life, the bounties of Allah (SWT), our duties and obligations, The Holy Qura'n and everything else within our universe, it is difficult not to think about the Divine Essence of Allah (SWT).

 

Does it say that I am refusing to worship Allah (SWT) by reflecting on Creation and the Creator? Allah (SWT) has created us to worship him, I am not disputing that. But He is not in need of human worship. If not a single human worshipped Him, it wouldn't reduce his Glory even with a jot!

[Salafi_Online]

Innalhamdulillah...

 

by reflecting on Creation and the Creator?

Reflecting on the creation is one thing, but reflecting on the Creator now that troubles me! Did i miss quote you again?lol Hope to see you at the Shia v.s Sunni discussion