54,000 displaced in Las Anod's invasion by 'Somaliland'

[N.O.R.F]

Originally posted by -:

quote:Originally posted by Northerner:

People's true colours have come out of late.

Just curious, what have you done to help Mogadisho?

Ah, Che playing devil's advocate as per usual,,,

 

Help? In terms of what? Cyber world or actual action?

 

One didnt cheer back in April. Those who did (and those who played the neutral card) are today concerned for people because its a little closer to home.

[NASSIR]

Originally posted by Northerner:

Caamir, why not display as much concern earlier this year in Xamar?

I do it every time. The reason I criticize the government and the insurgents is to at least end the political impasse and in that way, our people who are caught in the cross fire would be rescued from their endless power struggle. You can look at my records and attest to this fact, but some people live not by the time and are so blind of the real politick in Somalia that they resort to name callings and other emotional diatribes.

 

The Anti-government squad in this net does not have a viable alternative solution if the TFG is forced to exit. Even our brother Xiinfanin admits this weakness on the side of the so called freedom fighters. We all know of the impurity of the insurgents, inevitable miscalculations, the masked secessionists who see Yusuf's government as an end to the 17 long political campaigns for international recognition (Castro and others). Why would Castro have a nationalist fervor all of a sudden after 17 years of chaos and mayhem in Mogadisho? We have a right to be suspicious of the personal transformation of some members who have a record of being a long time secessionist advocators, so what gives them now the audacity and principle to tell others that they are more nationalist and that Ethiopia which is the linchpin of TFG has grand schemes to incorporate Somalia into Ethiopia, a logic that even defies history and the territorial integrity of nation states. TFG as a sovereign has the right to ask the assistance of another country whilst its very existence is under threat from radical group with alien culture in alliance with peace spoilers who had grown fat on the loot of the national property until the TFG's intervention??

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Caamir:

The Anti-government squad in this net does not have a viable alternative solution if the TFG is forced to exit.

This line is now staple quibble of pro-TFG camp. But the implicit reasoning behind it is simply absurd. Why does support or opposition to the TFG has to be predicated on the existence of "viable alternative?" Shouldn't the TFG be judged based on their accomplishments and/or failures?

 

No one is asking pro-TFG crowd to support any opposition group. I myself support neither the Asmara group nor any group operating in Somalia. The only thing asked of you is to respect and recognize the God given and UN charter sanctioned right of every people to resist the foreign occupation of their country.

 

 

TFG as a sovereign has the right to ask the assistance of another country

Who gave c/yuusuf the mandate to ask for "assistance" of Ethiopia? Did the residents of Mogadishu get a vote? Did you get a vote? I know I didn't get a vote.

 

 

whilst its very existence is under threat from radical group with alien culture in alliance with peace spoilers who had grown fat on the loot of the national property until the TFG's intervention??

Those who "grew fat on the loot of national property" are the same ilk as those calling themselves ministers, parliamentarians, speaker of Parliament, president, governors, head of national police and so on. Some of these ppl had a direct hand in making YOU a refugee and here you are tap dancing for them. Talk about being on the wrong side of the street.

[NASSIR]

Originally posted by Socod_badne:

I myself support neither the Asmara group nor any group operating in Somalia. The only thing asked of you is to respect and recognize the God given and UN charter sanctioned right of every people to resist the foreign occupation of their country.

There is a danger in the arbitrary judgment of "occupation". The EthiopiaN presence in Somalia at the moment is best judged for its temporary mission that rests on the international principle of pacifying a country racked by a seemingly an endless and brutal tribal war. And as Frazier said, "this is an outcome of the reconciliation and counter outcome measures". It began when Yusuf's government first set foot in Jowhar and the Islamist threatened to capture the town of Jowhar inching on its direction by just few miles. I think they even had a minor armed confrontation in which the fledgling government managed to defend itself.

 

We just need to grasp how the global system works and how the territorial integrity of every country that is a member of the United Nations is protected.

For instance, Somalia's conflict is an internationalized conflict, so the world must help Somalia prop up a legitimate regime that can put up institutional structures essential for the reconfiguration of our nation state, one which is collaborative with the international system in promoting and strengthening world peace and security and most importantly guiding it into a permenant government by 2009. You can now see how piracy thrives in our Somali coast and engage in activities that hamper commercial sea lanes.

See my discussion of Internationalized Conflict

 

 

The prerequisite for Ethiopia's Withdrawal from Somalia is getting other forces in, that is the position of--UN, Arab League, and the U.S to avoid a big vacuum. The TFG understands the antediluvian ideas of animosity of the two nations. This widespread sentiment and fear is what frames decisions to deploy AU peacekeeping troops funded by the United Nations, and currently Burundi is about to send peace keepers. However, I personally doubt if the full deployment of AU would still change the political climate in Somalia. The hegemonic insurgents would still maintain their position of resisting any form of governance and international concern. Doesn't that presumption signal pessimism?

 

 

Who gave c/yuusuf the mandate to ask for "assistance" of Ethiopia? Did the residents of Mogadishu get a vote? Did you get a vote? I know I didn't get a vote.

Residents are represented by the MPs and they voted in the parliament in Baidabo for the deployment of AU troops. Aren't they constituents or residents of a district represented by an elected official?

[rudy-Diiriye]

duqa i am gonna slap u silly on this. what u say and what u show are 2 totally different things.

 

wat election u talking about? r u talking about the party in motel 6 in Nairobi instructed by non other then zenawee. well, if u think thats legit govt, than i got a building to sell in addis.

 

somali ppl never voted for tfg, it was shuffed down their throat. then markey ku margadeeyn, waa ku tufey.

 

anyways, may be u would be lil bit more credible if u loss adiiro, cuz he aint nothing but daba dilif. u know a pic says loudly than words.

[NASSIR]

Originally posted by rudy:

somali ppl never voted for tfg, it was shuffed down their throat. then markey ku margadeeyn, waa ku tufey.

-->What is your suggestion then? Get back to the warlord era? or to the era of UIC whose composition and military aggression planted the seeds of their own destruction?

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Caamir:

There is a danger in the arbitrary judgment of "occupation".

 

Of course, occupation can sometimes be arbitrary and subjective. There's no denying that and ample evidence can be adduced from Iraq to Palestine to Kashmir to make the point. But sensible people would agree that the king has no right in telling his subjects that they're free. In other words, the only opinion that matters, in so far as characterizing a crime or an injustice, is that of the victim.

 

 

The EthiopiaN presence in Somalia at the moment is best judged for its temporary mission that rests on the international principle of pacifying a country racked by a seemingly an endless and brutal tribal war.

 

 

But the Ethiopian presence is NOT pacifying Somalia. It's producing the exact opposite, it's fanning the flames of war and instability across the entire horn of Africa. Things are markedly worse since Ethiopia's "temporary" occupation. Banadir is on fire. Piracy is back with vengeance. Instability is creeping up in Puntland and Somaliland which have been stable compared with the rest of Somalia. Kilinka 5naad is closed off to the world as part of Ethiopian military crack down. Thousands of Somalis are dead. Nearly half a million are IDPs and ever day we hear more dire warnings of apocalyptic humanitarian disaster unfolding. The whole region seems to be going to hell in hand basket. Have you been living under a rock? Or are you vying for the position of fiddler on the roof playing while Rome burns?

 

Aid agencies are now saying they can't even give succor to the needy because of instability and lack of security. You talk about piracy but neglect to mention that there was no piracy before Ethiopia invaded during the ICU rule. And that's because the ICU cracked down on piracy unlike the TFG.

 

 

And as Frazier said, "this is an outcome of the reconciliation and counter outcome measures".

 

 

You seriously expect me to entertain the opinion of a woman that represents a country that's a guilty of greatest crime of 21st century? Her country, in violation of every international convention, invaded the sovereign nation of Iraq and caused the deaths of nearly a million people with million more made refugees. What could she possibly know about reconciliation?

 

 

It began when Yusuf's government first set foot in

Jowhar

and the Islamist threatened to capture the town of Jowhar inching on its direction by just few miles.

 

In hindsight, I take my hat off to those 'Islamists' (whatever that means) for the prescience and sagacity they displayed. Yuusuf wanted to bring Ethiopian troops to help him massacre and make life living hell for the Somali people, especially for the residents of Mogadishu. The act to move his government to Jowhar was provocative one. History has vindicated those who opposed him then. Yuusuf should be standing in trail at the Hague for War Crimes.

 

 

The prerequisite for Ethiopia's Withdrawal from Somalia is getting other forces in, that is the position of--UN, Arab League, and the U.S to avoid a big vacuum.

 

Ethiopia will leave only after two conditions are met. The first you stated above. There will need to be a large (20,000+) UN/AU troops to replace Ethiopian troops. To date only one country sent troops and there's no indication any other country is going to send troops.

 

And to make matters more complicated, there's no peace to keep. Somalia needs peace makers not peace keepers. Any UN/AU troops sent have to operate under Chapter 7 of the UN, meaning they have to fight... the UN/AU will have to take sides in clan-based conflict, which will never happen. So this condition for Ethiopian withdrawal can never be met.

 

The other condition is TFG soldiers will take over. This, also, will not happen. So the two conditions for Ethiopian withdrawal are infeasible and will never materialize. Thus, Ethiopian presence is permanent. We will be lucky if we become a mere satrap of Ethiopia. From the look of things, Somalia will become a colony of Ethiopia. And Somalis will be under the jackboot of Ethiopia. Brush up on your Tigre/Amharic, you gonna need it.

 

 

The hegemonic insurgents would still maintain their position of resisting any form of governance and international concern.

 

 

First, explain to me how a Somali in Somalia fighting the military of foreign country becomes an insurgent. I've heard the Iraqi resistance called insurgents as well but I never understood the logic behind it. Secondly, who can blame them if they don't want governance? Look at what governance produced? Mass slaughter, refugees, dire humanitarian conditions, piracy, malfeasance, venal leaders... no government is better than a government who claims success based on the deaths of thousands of Somalis and uprooting of half million more. If that's a government to you, I want none of it.

 

 

Residents are represented by the MPs and they voted in the parliament in Baidabo for the deployment of AU troops. Aren't they

constituents

or residents of a district represented by an elected official?

No one elected a SINGLE MP. So what right do they have to speak on the behalf of anyone? These self-styled and self-appointed MPs are there for own good.

[Baashi]

Talac talaceey ku nacay. War runta awoowayaal ha ka weecweecanina. Waxa is hayaa waa Somali. Xabashka iyagaa u yeertay oo ku kala hormarayay. Haatana wali iyagaa doonaya oo hoosta ku wata. Dalaal iyo malaal waxuba waa carabta deenteeda baan maqli jiray. Qaraabo Amxaarka waxba ha ku rafanina oo ha isboohinina ee talo yaa idiin taalee inta isu tagtaan talo keena ama ninkii roon reerka ha u haro. Soo ma ahayn violence begets violence. Iyadii bay joogtaa.

[Castro]

^^^^^ Awoowe, bal u yara kaadi.

 

Waxa is hayaa waa Somali. Xabashka iyagaa u yeertay oo ku kala hormarayay. Haatana wali iyagaa doonaya oo hoosta ku wata.

This reminded me of Charles Baudelaire's famous quote: "It is the greatest art of the devil to convince us he does not exist."

 

Similarly, it is the greatest trick of Ethiopia to convince us (Maryooley) that it has no lust for Somalia but that it is merely a reluctant participant in a domestic quarrel.

 

That Somalis are at each other's throat is hardly a secret but that Ethiopia is no more than a tool being used by warring factions seems a little far fetched.

 

May be you know something I don't.

[Armchair Politician]

Are there even 54,000 people in Las Anod to displace?

[Jacaylbaro]

[Emperor]

Armchair are you asking hence expecting to be informed or questioning as in not believing in the number of pple that settle in Las Anod? Perhaps your have something to share... You sound an expert so go on tell us

[RedSea]

Originally posted by Caamir:

quote:Originally posted by rudy:

somali ppl never voted for tfg, it was shuffed down their throat. then markey ku margadeeyn, waa ku tufey.

-->What is your suggestion then? Get back to the warlord era? or to the era of UIC whose composition and military aggression planted the seeds of their own destruction?

It's funny mr. Caamir, that you would line up the ICU with the warlords of the mid 90s.

 

The ICU was alot different than the warlords, in fact they were the ones who actually cleansed the troublmakers from the streets of Xamar, not the TFG.

 

Their steemrolled through out S.Somalia. they were right on that since somalia is rightfully their country and the responsability to defend it was on their shoulders.

 

The warlords you speak of mr. caamir are the ones today who are part of the TFG(Tigray founded government).

 

For few months peace, law and order returned, within few months the lawless, chaos returned thanks largely to the Melez and the stooge entity which you refer to as a government.

[LANDER]

Originally posted by -:

quote:Originally posted by Northerner:

People's true colours have come out of late.

Just curious, what have you done to help Mogadisho?

My guess, is he's done as much as you have

[Che -Guevara]

^^^That man could speak for himself.

 

 

Northern...My point is if it is Burco that was being destabilised, I'm sure you would had the same reaction. Lack of empathy is all inclusive Somali attribute.