Islamic dating

[Bambina]

Salam Aleykoum,I'm pretty sure this subject has previously been discussed.But I need some questions answered,lol.I know it is haram to date a guy outside marriage and if you were with a guy you wouldnt have been alone with him since a third person should have been involved,preferably a family member to keep an eye on you,lol.

 

Last summer there was a sleep over in a muslim association and there were a lot of lectures and one lecture was about how to date a guy in a halal way and a woman said that conversations on the phone and on the messengers were haram.I believed her right away but I didnt have the chance to ask her some questions so Im hoping than one of you will answer.If its impossible to go out with a guy without as third person, does that mean that someone has to listen to your conversations on the phone and watch what you are writing on the net?

[sayfulaah-almasluul]

i think (God knows )that as long as the telephone conversation do not contain prohibited discusstion then it is lawful to have it with any body,i mean there is no need to have family memeber preferably men to be with u.the reason why physical contact is prohibited in islam is cuz that may drag farther prohibited action like (God forbbide) fornication.in holy quran God says in suratul axzaab.and when u asking them-women-something do so behind veils (axzaab:verse 53)

[Mujahida]

Salam Bambina

 

As far as your second question is concerned, Islam does not allow what we have come to call “dating”. Islam values chastity for both men as well as women. Islam acknowledges the fact that a young man and a young woman can naturally feel attracted towards each other. It also acknowledges the fact that if this attraction is allowed to be gratified without setting any limits, it can easily destroy the whole social structure that Islam wants to promote.

 

 

Islam does not approve of intimate mixing of the sexes, and forbids premarital or extramarital sex. Islam encourages marriage as a shield to such temptations and as a means of having mutual love, mercy and peace.

 

Keeping the above explanation in perspective, it should be quite clear that Islam does not allow what we, in the present day have come to call “dating”. “Dating”, therefore, seems to be against the very essence of the teachings of Islam.

 

There is nothing wrong with getting to know each-other but thats by guarding ur chastity,lowering you gaze, and considering your modesty, and if possible having a mahram, is a way you could go about it InshaAllah.

 

Ma'Salama

[Coloow]

salaama,

 

I hope our beloved brother Nuur would shed some light on this issue...

 

but

 

I am rather uncomfortable with the term "dating". Many of us tend to use this word from a western perspective. The western kind of dating, taken at face value is not neccessarily a bad thing. The dating between people of the opposite sex have been at least in theory, away for a presumptive couple to know each other, exchange views about life, see if they have a chemistry etc.

 

Nowadays, dating has become a phrase to use when people, young and old indulge in acts that are far from the old days when dating was a marriage strategy. Dating is synomenous with "harlotism". In many cases the goal of the people who engage in the act are short term strategies meant to conquer the other party for a short period of time.

 

My knowledge of islamic way of life is limited but my layman opinion is that dating a person with good faith is permissable- given the situation that many of us find ourselves, and the opportunities that modern day technology gives us.

 

Gone are the days when marriage was a collective endeavour for the whole community- and the bride and groom could be guaranteed total quality control! In that circumstance, there was no need for dating.

 

Nowadays dating is a neccessity for marriages to succeed. The manner of how it is done and strategies should of course conform to islamic guidelines.....

[Nur]

Bambina

 

Dating is an outgrowth culture of a Judeo-Christaian Pagan cultures, even in some Muslim societies like ours back in Somalia we have a term for it which was widely accepted and chances are that some family members may be able to verify for you, Somalis, who for the most part were igorant of Islam, use to date, and even dance tribal dances, the dating busines in Somalia was known with many names, depending on the region, " Xodxodasho, or Shukaansi" being two of the terms.

 

In the western DATING game, it is all about premarital sex, and rarely about marriage. As an example, Once when I was in College, I used to stay alone and pensive most of the time, and never chatted with woman classmates, and one day as I was leaving the school, two women followed me, I was nervous, so I walked faster, but they caught up with me and asked me if they could join me walk to a nearby park, I agreed, and as we walked out one of the women introduced herself and the other girl who was blushing ( very red faceed white girl). So the first girl says that her friend would like to date me, because she admires my character, I told her nervously that I am a Muslim, I can not do that, so she said, : " this girl is not that type also, she is interested in marriage" Now , I am trapped, and honestly, the girl was extremely good looking, but I had no eyes for her, so I told them, sorry, I am a poor student, to my surprise, I am told that the girls family owns the town, she alone owns so much properties that I did not have to study anymore, all I needed was to get married and count money and kids. But that is rere.

 

We do have a problem in the Muslim community, in conservative muslim countries they have a woman known as KHATTABAH, she is more like your internet matrimonials site, she knows of all the girls and the guys in town, and she matches couples. When a couple become interested in each other for marriage, they are allowed to see each other it is called " Nathrah sharciyah" the legal meeting in which the woman takes off the hijaab, so the guy can have a glimpse of his potential wife, and a chat, since it is important to cement the marriage with that preview, which may or may not ineterst the guy or the girl, A friend of mine, was rejected by a girl after she so the way he walked, she said : "wuu dhutinaayey" and she changed her mind, she missed a great guy.

 

Now, I find it puzzling in the western countries, eleigible Somali men, who are shy, are never in the spot light, so are good Somali women, and there is no better medium available than the internet, which at best gives marriage hopefuls a peek into the mind of the writer, but not his or her other physical qualities. And no one wants to go first, because being known and not knowing back is a big risk many marriage hopefuls dread.

 

In another interesting incident that may have have happened to other men, a friend and a business associate of mine, and an observing Muslim, proposed in a humorous way that I marry his sister, the guy, was very bright and intelligent, his genetic make up would have been an asset for my future kids, but I was so afraid of coming to a situation of loosing him over this deal, so i said, marriage was not in mind inorder not to hurt his feelings, (may Allah forgive me because it was) This was a stark example of how difficult to bring couples together for Somalis who are away from home.

 

It is a big problem, unfortunately, to this writing, I have no clue for a solution, but talking about it helps.

 

 

Nur

[Khayr]

Salaamz,

I think that some good examples have been given here.

Its too bad that the family unite and

the extended family/relatives relations

have become fragmented for the Qurbo Somalis.

This is were I can appreciate when

families talk about marrying within the same

qabil b/c they know the history of certain families and have many contacts regarding finding a mate for their children.

 

Its kind of sad that we all have a

'PERSONALIZED ISLAM' and are not strongly linked

to a muslim community so that a shiekh/Alim that knows you well, can give you the proper advise

that caters to your xaal and personality and history cause not everyone is in the same boat

and what might be prescribed for one person

might be harmful to another.

 

Hey Nur, saxib don't think too much

and over analyze situations.

Make the niyah, do your istikhara and DIVE IN.

The rest you need TAWAKUL CALA ALLAH.

 

Fi Amanallah

[you3]

Asalaamu caleykum

 

 

hey sis you know you can't date a guy without get married. you know allah said you most get marrid . be carefull girl allah is watching you .

is totally haram to date a guy .

 

 

peace out

[Haneefah]

Originally posted by Nur:

there is no better medium available than the internet

Actually, there is. There are many formal gatherings organized by Muslims solely for the purpose of finding a potential husband/wife. For instance, there's an annual event at U of T for those who are looking, there's lectures, dinner and a period where ppl get to know each other (those who have been eying each other i guess,lol). I know many other Muslim organzations also have similar events that you can attend. However, the sad thing is, I've been told you won't find many somalis there...many associate events like that with "desperateness"...at the same time, there is that increasing pool of young somalis who are "ready" but just don't know how to approach this :confused:

 

Maybe we should form North American Islamic Somali social gatherings. Who knows, it might be of great help to many who are confused about this matter.

 

To the poster, yes, it is highly recommended in Islam to have a third party present when conversating with someone whom you're "considering" (more appropriate than "dating"). This is mainly for the reason that the probability of shaydaan joining that conversation is very high when you're alone together (including any form of internet chatting as well as the phone) as opposed to when you're in public or in the presence of a 3rd party. For example, my best friend has an older sister who always got her little brother to listen to conversations when men who wanted to propose to her called. Masha'Allah, she has great Imaan, her sister and I always asked her how she was capable of doing this because it's just very impractical for many of us...esp for those of us who don't want our brothers or male family members to even know that we're talking with "strangers". However, we still have to do our best to avoid the possibility of a sin. Hope that helped

[sayfulaah-almasluul]

To the poster, yes, it is highly recommended in Islam to have a third party present when conversating with someone whom you're "considering" (more appropriate than "dating"). This is mainly for the reason that the probability of shaydaan joining that conversation is very high when you're alone together (including any form of internet chatting as well as the phone) as opposed to when you're in public or in the presence of a 3rd party. For example, my best friend has an older sister who always got her little brother to listen to conversations when men who wanted to propose to her called. Masha'Allah, she has great Imaan, her sister and I always asked her how she was capable of doing this because it's just very impractical for many of us...esp for those of us who don't want our brothers or male family members to even know that we're talking with "strangers". However, we still have to do our best to avoid the possibility of a sin. Hope that helped

i agree with u as far as recommendation of third party presence in any conversation between oppose sex,however, i think the third party must be a male from the ur family member,(that is if u are woman)the hadeeth was , if i recall it correctly ( a man should not lonely stay with a woman unless there is thee mahram.) the meaning of thee mahram is a male of woman's family memeber.as for the chatting through internet or telephone conversation i think there is no need of third party cuz the logic behind the presence of third party is to ensure no unislamic activities take place.one thing else i would like to sress here is if one is incapable of having male famliy memeber with her then she/he might just have coversation behind close veils. God says in holy quran( and if u want to ask them -women- somthing then do so behind veils ).

[Sophist]

Isn't that oxymoron? Islamic Dating?

 

 

I think most of what I have intended to say after reading the inquisition proposed by the enquirer were responded to by my old nomad fellow Nur. Alas, I wont dwell into the legality of the issue. However, there is a problem of practicality.

 

At the olden days (be that in Somalia or even the classical Islamic periods- what I have in mind is Waqtu Salaf) there was a way in which the conduct of marriage were executed in a Bona fide way. A good example from the time of Sahaba serves us great deal-I hope my memory does not fail me in this crucial moment. There was a Sahabi who was interested in getting married to another Sahabiyah, the prophet SCW was told about it, and the prophet told the Sahabi to make sure to he sees her physique - humaageeda. He then went to make sure to see her not officially-wuxuu ka fiir fiiriyey deyrka.

 

The above example illustrates there when marriage is thought about the parties concerned should not hurry to it, but give considerable amount of consideration-be that as it immaterial or material, like Nur's friend who was limbing or my friend who was nearly rejected by his fiance because he was not a British Citizen-she also nearly misssed a golden apportunity.

 

Now we all live in the west and there are substantial number of Somali females who came to Europe or North America without the guidance of their Muxrim, how can one engage with these females without committing a sin-crime. We know it is not practicably foreseeable for these men to ask permission from the Muxrims to court Islamically these females, how then can this be avoided. I think many would agree with me (perhaps I am being too optimistic here) that we should be flexible about certain things; things that are fundamental about the issue in question. For example, it would be rather idiotic to say we could not talk to our potential sisters in genteel manner-we all go to (or in the case of Nur went) western educational institutions were the students are mixed. We deal with out fellow students (at least I hope we do) in a fashion that is fit Islamically, this should apply to our sisters too. We can talk to them not in a salacious manner but indeed in modest and courteous way, letting them now our intentions without causing any harm to our principled and cultured doctrines.

 

As Ibnu Qayim RHC famously said, Al-Fatwaa ta taqayar bi taqayuri Asminati wal Amkina= the Decree alters with the time and the place. This does not mean the principles change, but the furuuc shariica as far as Ijtihaad is concerned espouses its current circumstance without shaking off any foundations.

 

Afur Wanaagsan.

 

Sophist

[Rahima]

Isn't that oxymoron?

Took the words right out of my mouth!

 

Interesting points you made there Sophist, it is a bit of a predicament. We await Nur’s response in the other thread- inshallah he shall address it.

[sayfulaah-almasluul]

As Ibnu Qayim RHC famously said, Al-Fatwaa ta taqayar bi taqayuri Asminati wal Amkina= the Decree alters with the time and the place. This does not mean the principles change, but the furuuc shariica as far as Ijtihaad is concerned espouses its current circumstance without shaking off any foundations.

 

that is actualy what many people did not understand,islam is very flexble diin,it is a religone for all centuries,generations and every continent, be it asia,america europe and africa who obviously practice different cultures. the main important thing we realy need to remember though is the achievement of islamic objective.what i mean by this is any islamic rule has an objective behind it,for example outlawing the khamra or even so called"dating" the hikamda here is to avoid occurence of unlawful physical contact between male and female,in case of datting,and brain disorder in the case of khamra.

so in this matter i think it doesn't matter what means we use to prevent occurence of that.

one more question which i think is worth asking is,is it only women whom should be acompanied with or it applies to both sex?

[Nur]

Walaal Sophist

 

 

I enjoyed your writing, this problm deserves a radical solution, a solution that preserves chastity and our faith in a setting that is far different than the saxaabahs setting in which most hadeeths were referred to.

 

Because I stil do not have even an idea of where to start for a solution, I am going to use a trick that opens many doors of wisdonm to me whenever i find myself facing a problem of this proportion, Make a lot of ibaadah in this month, and inshaAllah, Allah SWT will help us all by inspiring one of us to come up with the crystal ball solution, and reading what Sophist wrote and Rahima's patience, I am very hopefuls Allah will help this audience with a brreakthrogh solution, till then I am out searching for an answer.

 

 

Rabbi Zidnii cilman, warzuqnii fahman. amin

 

 

Nur

[Bambina]

Salaam !!! Thanks guyz for ur replies,u did an excellent job and I'd really appreciate it ,keep on postin ur comments.