Interesting argument brought forward by ONLF leader for the name of the region

[Meiji]

[Asharq Al-Awsat] The name ****** continues to cause controversy in the region because it is the name of the tribe to which it belongs. Why do you insist on this name? Does this mean a firm adherence to your tribe, ******?

 

[Osman]

This is the internationally recognized name, which is shown on world maps.

The Front sees no use in creating a new name for the region and then introducing it to the world anew. The former Somali government called the region Western Somalia, but few people in the region know this name, and it has not been introduced on the world map.

 

The former Ethiopian government of Mengistu Haile Mariam gave the region another name, and so did the current government, which is led by Meles Zenawi (the fifth province of Ethiopia). No one knows all of this. Nevertheless, we might hold consultations to change the name when the region has been liberated.

If we change the name ****** Before this happens, we will only confuse the people and the world.

http://www.hiiraan.com/news2/2009/Oct/onlf_leader_claims_******_are_arab_people_under_ethiopian_occu pation.aspx

[Meiji]

The argument can be summarized as:

 

- Internationally recognized name, which is shown on world maps.

 

- It confuses people and the world, if we change the name as the struggle continues.

 

- We will change it when the region has been liberated.

 

-----------------------------------------------

 

Few questions which we need to ask ourselves:

 

- Wasn't the name for the region coined during the European imperialism in the Horn (by their discovers/geographers)?

 

-Isn't the the region that is inhabited by Somalis under occupation by Ethiopia and as such recognized by the International community?

 

If the Admiral wants to use the ''Internationally recognized'' argument he can as well stretch his argument further and argue that the region is part of Ethiopia since it is Internationally recognized as such and shown on world maps. And that fighting this ''internationally recognized'' situation only causes confusion to the people and the world.

 

The Admiral and ONLF supporters should come with better explanation for their insistence on the use of a tribal name for a region that is inhabited by various Somali groups.

[Cowke]

Yeah bro, it is purely tribal they insist on that name for their region. Infact if you follow statistics from what i read the clan that is considered a majority in that region is only 40-50% of the demographic. This leaves 50-60% non onlf people feeling like their being colonized all over again but this time not from an outside force but an internal force.

 

To many Somalis forget that tribal occupation is just equally as bad as foreign occupation. Their both totally unacceptable in todays world and anyone found committing them are always cutt from the world and in reality the occupier tends to suffer more. Their are exceptions to the rule like "israel" but on a majority foreign/internal occupiers are not looked upon favourably by the international community and that can lead to economic/military assaults on the culprit committing such acts.

 

The ONLF are fighting one occupier namely ethiopia, so they become occupiers themselves over somalis in the western region. That is mainly one of many reasons of my personal dislike for the onlf.

[NASSIR]

Here is a relevant argument I made 2 years ago

J-11

and others, thanks for the clarification. It has helped a lot. The seeds of resistance has sprouted into sturdy tree and it is therefore imperative not to resist the intellectual debate of this important issue.I had the impression whether the semantics is a cause for concern or a matter for congratulation. Unfortunately, there is no right set of criteria to decide on both assumptions.

 

I think we can steer the struggle into a win-win situation to balance obligations, minimize losses and equalize potential gains. Obviously, many fear that the word has sectarian and divisive content. It doesn't make sense to me that it is unthinkable to shed off the relics of colonialism but reasonable to stave off the challenges of a more primitive one with the same relics that divided Somalis.

 

Let us evaluate the proponents of the semantical status quo. They may say the rest of Somalis in the region have failed to participate or perhaps they may be subscribe to a general perception that their active participation will have no impact on the struggle because of their relative weakness or size as

Mr. Observer

argues. Even so, we should not be shortsighted in reckoning the expected benefit. It may be worth accepting

marginal applicants

if there is a chance that they may become a regular and reliable allies. As they say Isolationism is no longer a practical policy and the reason why people cry out for comprehension out of this aggressive attitude and mounting clannish assertiveness.

 

Another view I have is that this ethnical sense of the struggle is a tool that is manipulated. Ethno-characteristics (take the ethno as clan) is a powerful force when effectively mobilized and used as an instrument for political ends. As Dr. Hagmann who is a regional expert argues the O strengthens the incentives for the elites to financially engage their people (diaspora) both as a source of fuel for the movement and quest for potential leadership role in their territories such as power and status in case a full regional autonomy is negotiated with international actors playing a major facilitation role. Indeed this is one possible scenario intended on finding a viable political settlement with one end goal, which might be intended to save Ethiopia from increasing internal constraints towards peace and democratic reforms. Ethiopia is now very much discredited for its human rights violations and genocidal campaigns. The west is therefore getting increasingly frustrated with the draconian policies of Ethiopia and might withdraw their financial commitment.

 

I believe there has to be a comprehensive, inclusive model for the struggle. With such mindset and perceptions, our people might not succeed navigating the treacherous waters of the colonial policies of Ethiopia.

[Mr. Somalia]

The ONLF is a Xabasha organization with Xabasha objectives. That is why they will make every weak disingenuous argument in the book to sustain their silly name, so as to keep the true Somalis under occupation disunited and rudderless. This is the reason why the ONLF retards and their supporters, in my opinion, deserves all the contempt and ridicule that is constantly heaped on them daily.

[Meiji]

Me,

 

Perhaps you can shed light on the insistence by ONLF on the use of a name which is a major obstacle to the struggle to liberate Somali lands from Ethiopian colonization.

 

Bear in mind, that there is no point to go into the worthyness of the struggle as I admire their resisstance struggle too.

 

This topic is ment to find answer to the question of: ''Why ONLF leader uses the socalled Int.recognition argument for the name of the region''?

 

My argument in this topic stands.

[Meiji]

PS: This topic has nothing to do with the shameless and treacherous handing over of Somali civilians to the Ethipian ocupation army, which recently happened in Northeastern Somalia.

 

The topic is a reaction to the interview of the Admiral.

[Abtigiis]

The Admiral got it wrong. Not about the history but the relevance of history for the cause we, ONLF, arte fighting for.

 

There is no debate that the name **** has merits. Historically as well as to pre-empt the Ethiopian propaganda of Somali expanisonism whenever the name Somali is used.

 

But the real issue is to wiegh the be beneifts with the disadvantages.

 

For me, it is clear, changing the name will bring the follwing positive changes:

 

- Will kill the propaganda of those who don't want to confront Ethiopian colonialism and hide behind pointing at 'wrong names'

 

Nothing else. The positive side gives only symbolic gains. On the ground, the **** community who lost Chinacsani will not suddenly shoulder guns because a name has been changed. They didn't when their land was given to Oromia.

 

The **** in Shinile will not jeopardise their perennial struggle with the Afars over land to side with any liberation front with a new name. Ismaciil Cumar Gheele will not also tell them to do it.

 

The people of Gashamo and Harshin, who are flocking en masse to Hargeisa for the next electioon, will not find another home to fight for.

 

And Geladi and Bokh communities will not send truck fulls of young fighters to the Oga.den heartland, when the Puntland admin is fighting for its survival in Las-Anood and regions it claims.

 

Meiji, adeer, this is the painful reality.

 

WHAT ARE THE DISADVANTAGES OF DISCARDING THE O LABEL?

 

- Whatever gains got by way of more Somali sympathy will be lost as ETV and RADIO deafen the world with the expansionist SOmali's claiming part of Ethiopia beongs to Somalia. Western diplomats, who are already on their dock, will find more ground to insist that Ethipia is being fought by external enemies.

 

- Thousands of young men in the bush, and those funding the organisation because IT BELONGS TO THEIR CLAN (let us not shy away from this) might get confused and lose the zeal. As this will not be offsetted by large contributions of fighters from other clans, it is a lose-lose situation.

 

Brother Meiji, I amm just trying to give you a more in-depth analysis of the reality on the ground. Yet, I still will value Somali 'symbolic' unity and is one of thos who push for a change of name. I must say I am right now in the minority and the acts of Puntland and Somaliland are not helping me.

 

Other than that, I have traversed the depths and heights of Somaligalbeed to know that nothing will change on the ground because you change names. For your information, UWSLF is fighting in the region. Mind to know who the guys are? Clan wise?

 

[ October 30, 2009, 01:20 AM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

[Som@li]

I strongly disagree on those who see ONLF as tribal entity but insisting on using the name ONLF ,knowing it undermines the movement ,(even slightly),is not a smart idea.Somalis are tribal sociaty and may only see the "****", This movememnt should not be only Somali movement but everyone on board against Melez.

 

Bangladesh which has less than 5% Hindus refused to use Islamic name, so that the minority Hindus would come and fight along the Bangelis to liberate East Pakistan.

 

ONLF needs shakers,and need smart leaders. It is time to think outside the box.

 

It is well known the biggest obstacle for the success of ONLF is the "****" people.

 

[ October 30, 2009, 01:21 AM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

[Abtigiis]

Who is holding back the formation of the **** Liberation front? Who is holding back the **** libertion front?

 

Dabshid, the reality is that there is a divergence of insterst among the clans in that region. And to the extent the O's are fighting in their 'clans' land, they are right. They have not transgressed into the land of others. If the rest of Somali's don't want to fight Ethiopia, good luck. We will fight the Ethio's in our land. That is the reality.

 

And by way of contribution to us, will you mind what thinking outside the box will enatail in this case. Other than the name change? Will you challenge or refute my assertions that thinking outside the box will also apply to whose who are gleefully overseeing the demograophic transformation in jigjiga?

 

DABSHID,

 

EVER heard of the "SII_GALBEED" Phenomena? Somali's are much smarter than you think. SNM and SSDF didn't carry clan names. yet tell me you don't know who they were!!

 

[ October 30, 2009, 01:22 AM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

[Som@li]

Tusbax, the attidude of believing this land belongs only to one group of pple is futile,if using tribal name/entity would do anything, it would do for SSDF, USC, SNM etc which all failed miserably. It is time to learn from experience, what would stop once the "****" reach success there fighting among themselves?

 

Rule out anything that pple may smell of tribal entity, and fight not for a clan but for ideology and self determination.

 

[ October 30, 2009, 01:22 AM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

[Som@li]

Originally posted by Abtigiis & Tolka:

DABSHID,

 

EVER heard of the "SII_GALBEED" Phenomena? Somali's are much smarter than you think. SNM and SSDF didn't carry clan names. yet tell me you don't know who they were!!

I know, it is true, changing only the name would be artificial,but bring on board pple from all areas,clans ,religions, I don' know the demographics of that area, But I believe that are many pple of all clans who want to bring Melez down.

[Abtigiis]

I totally agree with you that the name Must change as a start, and then the work must begin to get others on board. This is a good recommendation.

 

Unfortunately, what I also know is that as long as the clan mentality is there, and the ****'s are seen as the major stakeholders in whatever somali front that is formed (which by defaut will be the case because they are the majority clan and please see that this is not to mean they are more than all others put togather), others will have second thoughts about joining.I just want you to acknowledge that fact.

 

Tribalism is on all sides. Ka leh rer-hebel ayaa u badan meeshan oo ma galayo, do you think he is not tribalist?

 

The main issue is that ONLF or even Somali's will not be able to march to Addis and change regimes. The only good thing about this fight is that we have not put down the issue of self-determination and that we have maintained the claim that we are not part of Ethiopia. There, I think the ONLF have succeeded.

 

As to working with others, the key is Oromos. They can change things in Ethiopia and I think any Somali group must work with them, although we all know their limitations. It is as simpe as this.

 

[ October 30, 2009, 01:22 AM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

[Abtigiis]

Maxaa loo masaxay doodi Jabhad? Haddii sharaxaad loo adeegsado maxaa ku jaban sheegida magaca qabiilka. Waayo, that will clarify issues.

 

Jabhad,

 

Riyaale Xaamud and Cali Maxamed Kunaaye (who is the leader of the front in Liban zone) are not the only non-**** members of the ONLF. In fact, a significant number of the foot soldiers around Fafan and Jigjiga area are from other clans. Inter-marriages in the rural areas between ONLF fighters and these clans have helped in shoring up the local support.

 

However, it is still a bit of a streach to say all clans are in the fight. Honesty needs that to be mentioned. But again, do all clans need to be in the fight as such? My thinking is that not even all of **** is in the fight. It has never happned that all people will unite at a time of struggle.

 

When the Tigre's were fighting, it was predominantely the Shire-Adwa-Indhasillasie front that fought the hardest.

 

Anyway, Jabhad aan ku tilmaame dadka macquulka ah sida Dabshid iyo Xinnfaniin iyo Che iyo isku day inaad wax u sheegtid. Don't waste your time with poisoned kids like Cowke. Isma fahmaysaan. Taarikhdu waxay uga bilaabataa 1992 iyo Puntland.

 

Mr. Somalia wax badan ayuu garanayaa, laakiin wuu is-yeel-yeelayaa. He chose to be naughty. We can't help him.

 

[ October 30, 2009, 01:24 AM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

[Faafan]

aga war nimanku xero xunsanaa?

 

I think I put up some valid points...delete this whole topic then because the **** debate is the primary issue here which inturn brings the Q concept.

 

[ October 30, 2009, 01:24 AM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]