The AWDAL MOVEMENT (No Somaliland, Yes Somali Republic)

[Chimera]

Nothing concrete about them and i don't recall reading anything like that in my books, more like your version of history. Seriously let's stop the verbal acrobatics and be straight forward, with ''those who reside in the triangle'' you mean the I-clan, well here is some info for you to digest on:

 

It is difficult to see how thousands upon thousands of nomadic tribesmen, spread of over a area of some hundred miles, could have been sufficiently intimidated for a long period of time in any way that could make them useful to the Sayyid. They could be attacked, of course and in some cases were, but the Sayyid was after support, not dead men. The fact that in the major campaigns he was supported by so many followers drawn from a wide range of tribes, and that his armies included not only men from **** tribes but often from the **** as well, seems now to indicate that his uprising represented a grassroots movement of considerable proportions - Heart of a Stranger pg 52 by Margeret Laurence

 

There were leaders who alligned themselves with the Sayyid and there were leaders who sided with the British(this happened elsewhere aswell with different clans) but i don't give a toss about leaders much the same i couldn't care less about modern day Somali leaders, it's the people that matter and their actions clearly contradict your version of ''history

 

Sayyid besides the standing Dervish military had a para-military/militia consisting of 50 thousand people and these were not always the most kind of people and caused the Sayyid considerable damage in terms of his reputation with their thirst for looting, he eventually disbanded this militia, but to many the damage was allready done.

 

[ January 12, 2009, 11:47 PM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

[Fabregas]

And most of the SOmali clan elders in north in that region signed treaties with the British. There is a book called the Betrayal of the SOmalis,the author outlines how Somali elders signe deals which stipulated the European would never give SOmali lands to anyone and they would protect them from external foes. Of course, Somalis were prohibited from exporting arms and their land was not defended when Abysnians attacked, leaving them to defend themselves with primitive weapons.

[Chimera]

Abyssinian leaders signed treaties with Belgium. Had Belgium been a power comparable to Britain, history could have been different. If Sayyid was a christian and Somalis were a christian people the European powers would not have been so determined in subjugating us and would have left the country after their first defeat in the 1901 expedition.

[Ibtisam]

Waryaa Somali Castro, my Ayeeyo is from them ends, don' forget to invite me to the meetings in UK,

 

There is a little campaign on SOL to rewrite history and write out certain clans :eek: Adam as usual I am proud of you brother, holding it down for all Somalis and history

[Sir-Qalbi-Adeyg]

Originally posted by Adam-Zayla:

Nothing concrete about them and i don't recall reading anything like that in my books, more like your version of history. Seriously let's stop the verbal acrobatics and be straight forward, with ''those who reside in the triangle'' you mean the I-clan, well here is some info for you to digest on:

 

It is difficult to see how thousands upon thousands of nomadic tribesmen, spread of over a area of some hundred miles, could have been sufficiently intimidated for a long period of time in any way that could make them useful to the Sayyid. They could be attacked, of course and in some cases were, but the Sayyid was after support, not dead men. The fact that in the major campaigns he was supported by so many followers drawn from a wide range of tribes,

and that his armies included not only men from **** tribes but often from the **** as well, seems now to indicate that his uprising represented a grassroots movement of considerable proportions

-

Heart of a Stranger pg 52 by Margeret Laurence

 

There were leaders who alligned themselves with the Sayyid and there were leaders who sided with the British(this happened elsewhere aswell with different clans) but i don't give a toss about leaders much the same i couldn't care less about modern day Somali leaders, it's the people that matter and their actions clearly contradict your version of ''history

 

Sayyid besides the standing Dervish military had a para-military/militia consisting of 50 thousand people and these were not always the most kind of people and caused the Sayyid considerable damage in terms of his reputation with their thirst for looting, he eventually disbanded this militia, but to many the damage was allready done.

Let's be realistic, the sayid's army was mostly from the **** tribe especially his own the **** tribe and that of his mother, the **** tribe. What's this need to repaint history as if all somali's were fully behind the sayid's campaign? The fact is although a few somalilanders were part of the sayid's army, mostly those **** tribe.

 

The sayid and his dervish movements were notorious for looting and killing somali people of certain tribes(somaliland tribes), hence why majority of somali's turned against him. But somalilanders, were always against the sayid and were majority pro-british. Let's not revise history to soothe people ego's.

 

The only somali hero that had the full support of all somali's irrespective of tribe was Axmed gurey and even his ethnicity is questionable.

 

I even question the sayid's ambitions, reading history it would suggest the man was a typical somali warlord with a thirst for power. At one point he himself, even decided to ally himself with the colonialists. I have a jstor article of that.

 

[ January 12, 2009, 11:51 PM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

[Chimera]

Many incorrect statements there Qalbi-Adeyg it's too late now, i'm going to bed, but i will address each and every one of them tomorrow( if this topic hasn't diverted into a flamefest with one - two liners back and forth, cause then we will have to open a seperate topic)

[Somali Castro]

I laught at you people who twist my words, and who claim that I'm making a new history...please go read about Somali history.

 

I'm done with these ego-manics who can't handle the truth, an Uncle Tom will always defend his fellow Uncle Toms. I have accomplished what I wanted to accomplish.

 

I leave with my Victory.

[dhulQarnayn]

^^^War ileyn balaayo! War nimankii marfashland, nin ka waalan baa yimid...LOL

 

Somali Castro, saaxiib, hadaad ka go'daan Marfashland, xagee aadeysaan? Ma cirkaad geleysaan? War nimanyahow meeshiina iska bashaala ilaa dawllad federaaal ah oo wanaagsan ee Xamar ka imaanayso. Besides, I don't think Riyaale is going anywhere-- so just chill, aight!

 

dhulQarnayn :cool:

Republic Of California

[Sir-Qalbi-Adeyg]

Adam

 

Although the Sayid's(aun) cause(getting rid of the colonialists) was noble, I do believe the man's behavior was very warlord-like and his dervish movement became a tribal movement instead of national movement.

[General Duke]

Adam: seems to be doing exactly what he accused the brother of. The secessionist enclave did sign agreements with the British, did fight on the side of the British and hence the Siyad was defeated, the clans who supported him were massacred and displaced, the colonials killed, exiled and hunted down all the nobility of the North East, from Suldan Mohamoud Ali Shire, Boqor Osman and others.

Thus to say we want a history that painst everyone as patriotic, valiant and in defense of Somalia is a fiction. Those who are now claiming that the borders of the British are sacred and that the over 48 years of Somalia independence is meaningless are wrong and harbor deep seated love of colonialism. One can not say that my grand father fought the British and yet I am quite when my leaders say we are “orphans of the British Queen” and that our history started with the British colonialism.

 

With regards to Awdal, who believes that a clan should dominate another one? No one and hence the deep seated feelings that the people of Awdal have to not being dominated, they are a proud, smart well educated folks who have plenty of land and who want to be part of Somalia.

 

The secessionist wailing and picture posting proves nothing, there must be pictures of secessionist leaders kissing Siyad Barre’s pictures did that represent their love for him or were they being opportunistic and of course fearful?

[Chimera]

Originally posted by Qalbi-Adeyg:

quote:Originally posted by Adam-Zayla:

[qb] Nothing concrete about them and i don't recall reading anything like that in my books, more like your version of history. Seriously let's stop the verbal acrobatics and be straight forward, with ''those who reside in the triangle'' you mean the I-clan, well here is some info for you to digest on:

 

It is difficult to see how thousands upon thousands of nomadic tribesmen, spread of over a area of some hundred miles, could have been sufficiently intimidated for a long period of time in any way that could make them useful to the Sayyid. They could be attacked, of course and in some cases were, but the Sayyid was after support, not dead men. The fact that in the major campaigns he was supported by so many followers drawn from a wide range of tribes,

and that his armies included not only men from **** tribes but often from the **** as well, seems now to indicate that his uprising represented a grassroots movement of considerable proportions

-

Heart of a Stranger pg 52 by Margeret Laurence

 

There were leaders who alligned themselves with the Sayyid and there were leaders who sided with the British(this happened elsewhere aswell with different clans) but i don't give a toss about leaders much the same i couldn't care less about modern day Somali leaders, it's the people that matter and their actions clearly contradict your version of ''history

 

Sayyid besides the standing Dervish military had a para-military/militia consisting of 50 thousand people and these were not always the most kind of people and caused the Sayyid considerable damage in terms of his reputation with their thirst for looting, he eventually disbanded this militia, but to many the damage was allready done.

Let's be realistic, the sayid's army was mostly from the **** tribe especially his own the **** tribe and that of his mother, the **** tribe. What's this need to repaint history as if all somali's were fully behind the sayid's campaign? The fact is although a few somalilanders were part of the sayid's army, mostly those **** tribe.

The two clans you mentioned were very important and their troop contribution to Sayyid's army would be around 30-35 thousand soldiers(it's ridicilous to claim they were capable of more than that). Sayyid at his peak had around 70/80 thousand troops and a large militia force. All through his alliances with leaders from across Somalia all the way to NFD. So indeed Sayyid's quest to defeat the European empires was a Somali quest 'through and through' and one that cannot be turned into a petty clan project

 

The sayid and his dervish movements were notorious for looting and killing somali people of certain tribes(somaliland tribes),

As if he was 'kind' to his father's or his mother's clans, please brother he was ruthless to all those who stood in his way of victory,and there is even a letter where the Sayyid confirms he never ordered the looting and pillaging of non-combatants and confirmed that the militia's were out of his control(don't confuse them with his standing army).

 

There are also examples where one of his commanders decide to act on their own and commit a serious blunder like killing a significant figure which lost the Sayyid support including his so-called blood-clans but through diplomacy the valuable support returned

 

hence why majority of somali's turned against him. But somalilanders, were always against the sayid and were

majority pro-british

. Let's not revise history to soothe people ego's.

Were Puntlanders pro-Italian just because they signed treaties with them? of course not! Sayyid drew many of his troops from that region aswell and this included support from Sultans such as Isman Mahmoud

 

- But it is a mistake to imagine that he was denied I-clan support, for often many

of his followers belonged to this rival I-clan family - Somali Poetry an Introduction pg 13 by B. W. Andrzejewski, I. M. Lewis -

 

I think this post of yours brother to be honest, is a knee-jerk reaction to Ibtisam's reply, because you mentioned 'soothing someone's ego'(?) when my original intention was never that( and why shouldn't any self-respecting Somali feel pride in the history of their ancestors?, seems like your trying to deny certain sections of our society exactly that!). I corrected SomaliCastro in his attempt to turn universal Somali symbols into petty clan projects

 

The only somali hero that had the full support of all somali's irrespective of tribe was Axmed gurey and even his ethnicity is questionable.

His ethnicity is only an issue amongst Pan-ethiopianists:

 

(1)Edmond Joseph Keller: Led by the charismatic Somali leader Ahmad Gran (Imam Ahmed Ibn Ibrahim El-Ghazi), a coalition of Muslim invaders consisting mainly of Somali and Afar

 

(2)Chatterji: A Somali chief of Adel, a Muslim state on the Gulf of Aden, named Ahmed ibn Ibrahim by using the new weapon completely overthrew the Ethiopian kingdom

 

(3)Beckingham: Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al Ghazi, called 'the left-handed' by the Somali, (gran in Amharic), was a Somali in the service of the ruler of Zeila.

 

(4)Groves: The leader was a Somali chief, Ahmad ibn Muhammad Gran, Muslim ruler of a border state, who with great energy and resource pressed home the invasion of Abyssinia

 

(5)Whiteway: He was certainly not an Arab: probably he was a Somali, for we find him closely connected with many who were Somalis.

 

(6)Langer: Ethiopia was overrun by the Moslem Somali chief, Ahmed Gran, who used firearms

 

(7) Alexander Bulatovich: "In Portuguese sources he is called King of Adal and Emir of Zeila, and they conjecture that he was Somali" -- from Ethiopia Through Russian Eyes: Country in Transition, 1896-1898

 

(8) In 1541, when a four-hundred- man Portuguese expedition arrived in Abyssinia, a

Somali Moslem leader — Iman Ahmed, known as Gran — was threatening to extinguish the kingdom

 

(9) Elaine Sanceau: Imam Ahmed, once an obscure Somali warrior from Harar had risen to supremacy among the muslim tribes

 

(10)Andargachew Tiruneh: Harar, led by Gragn who was probably a Somali, overran the length and breadth of the central and northern Highlands from 1529 to 1543

 

(11)Saheed A. Adejumobi: Ahmed ibn Ibrahim al Ghazi was a Somali Imam and general who defeated several Ethiopian emperors and wreaked much damage on that nation. He is also known as Ahmad Gran (or Gurey).

 

(12)M. Th. Houtsma: Shortly afterwards there began the great invasion of the Somali chief, Ahmed b. Muhammed Gran

 

(13)Ahmed Ibrahim Al Ghazi but more commonly known as Gran, was in fact thé Imam Ahmad and probably a Somali

 

(14)Walter Yust: Between 1528 and 1540 armies of Mohammedans, under the renowned general Mohammed Gran (probably a Somali), entered Abyssinia from the low country

 

(15)The tale he told was that the Abyssinian kingdom had been cut in two by an invasion

by a Somali chief known as Granye the Left-handed.

 

(16)A new Muslim aggressor, the Somali upstart Ahmed ibn Ibrahim, known as Granye ("Lefty"), had reversed Ethiopia's military successes

 

(17)Harold Edwin Hurst: Ahmed Gran, who, between 1528 and 1540, overran most of the country. The Portuguese were determined to discover and kill the Somali leader

 

(18) Ahmad Gran b. Ibrahim, a Somali from Harar who conquered much of Ethiopia for Islam in the sixteenth century

 

(19) intervention of a small Portuguese force preserved the Christian state from complete destruction by the Islamic forces of the Somali leader Ahmad Gran

 

(20) Imam Ahmad ibn Ibrahim, a religious leader who was probably Somali

 

(21) Tensions came to a head when Imam Ahmad ibn Ibrahim, a religious leader who was probably Somali, was named amir of the eastern Islamic city of Harar

 

(22)Paulos Milkias, Getachew Metaferia: Somali Ahmad ibn Ibrahim (known in Ethiopia as Gragn Mohammed - the left handed) ran over the highland and devastated churches and shrines in the 1530s during the reign of Libne Dengel

 

i could go on and on...

 

I even question the sayid's ambitions, reading history it would suggest the man was a typical somali warlord with a thirst for power. At one point he himself, even decided to ally himself with the colonialists. I have a jstor article of that.

I really hope your not referring to that silly Illig agreement which was only ment to buy time (since Sayyid had just repulsed four British expeditions, a feat unheard of in Africa, especially considering the power of the British at the time)

 

If you consider the visionary Sayyid a warlord(usually an opinion held by Somalinet refugees -not saying that you are one!) then so were Ferdinand II & Isabella and Otto von Bismarck and Napoleon, matter fact we could use that term on all leaders throughout history who fought to unify their people and drive out invaders

[Chimera]

Duke your a posterchild qabiilist don't expect me to honor you with a reply similar to the one i gave Qalbi-Adeyg, shaydaanka iska naar sxb

[General Duke]

^^^lool. You could not respond anyway adeer, you lack information in this and many a topic, soem fake Somali nationalist you people are, hence your asinine claims.

[Chimera]

[roobleh]

To my fellow Awdalites, a semi-autonomous Awdal province (emirate or state) is the only solution to enhance our standard of living. Economic development is impossible, unless we control our destiny. It is time for the worldwide Awdal community to realize this and push forward for a plan: the Awdal Movement.

 

If Somalia were a tree, than we, Awdalites, are the roots

. The whole world knows about our previous civilization, the glorious Awdal Empire (Adal or Adel Empire). This was the first documented history of Somalia. Prior to the Awdal Empire, there was a land that Pharaoh Hatshepsut called The Land of Punt, which geographically lies in what would become the historic confines of the Awdal Empire. If she, Hatshepsut, or our beloved forefather, Sultan Ahmed Guray, were capable of seeing our current situation, they would be disgusted!

If I ever wrote such kind of incoherent essay, I would have disowned it. I will never tell anyone that I wrote that poor essay. Even a primary school essay will get a better marks than yours. And u still keep saying my article?

 

>If Somalia were a tree, than we, Awdalites, are the roots- intended for a primary school kids? ur insulting our intelligence!