The courts take control of Beled Weyne. Is Gaalkacayo next?

[Rahima]

As i thought, we disagree on that point.

 

But that aside, care to address the second? Curious i am.

[ElPunto]

Originally posted by Rahima:

Also, I am of the view that a clan is separate from the people of it, hence highlighting the motives of certain people, does not equate to a clans views. I fail to see how the two of you got from my post that I was referring to a clan- baffled. I don’t believe that I said certain clans or anything of sort, so for clarification purposes pls do explain, unless of course by referring to the views of certain individuals in the eyes of the both of you i am automatically seen as referring to a particular clan. If it is the latter, then we disagree to begin with anyway.

Let's be real here. I've been following these threads for a while. For whatever reason you have chosen to repeatedly mention in your posts on others and their nefarious and baseless reasons for opposing the ICU and vaguely implying it is, as you put it that 'they want to see the downfall of the enemy tribe'. That is injecting clannishness into it and is as stated before unhealthy.

[ElPunto]

Originally posted by Rahima:

As i thought, we disagree on that point.

 

But that aside, care to address the second? Curious i am.

I assume you have polling to confirm your affirmation? I choose to say we have no basis to say one or the other. You choose to say the majority of the residents of Xamar support the ICU - a positive assertion which has to based on evidence, no?

[Che -Guevara]

Point....then we can safely the majority are weary of the never-ending choatic situation in Xamar, and are for peace and progress which the courts have managed to restore to Xamar.

 

N How does pointing out the clanish nature of others make you tribalistic?

[Rahima]

Point,

 

So let me get this straight, to argue that some people oppose the courts for clan reasons because they have many-a-times mentioned how they perceive for the courts to be qabiilist in their conduct and that they are basically one tribe, is to be clannish yourself? How does that work? These are their arguments, I’m only highlighting in a more simplistic fashion.

 

To call a spade a spade is a crime basically.

 

As for Xamar, aren't the reporting from every single media outlet enough? I think that there is a consensus on this one, from the Somali media to the Muslim and western media. It's a unanimous point.

[ElPunto]

Originally posted by Yo-Yo Ma:

Point....then we can safely the majority are weary of the never-ending choatic situation in Xamar, and are for peace and progress which the courts have managed to restore to Xamar.

 

N How does pointing out the clanish nature of others make you tribalistic?

I would agree with the first statment.

 

You cannot be free of clannishness if you are continually obsessed with other ppl's perceptions of you based on their clan affiliation.

[ElPunto]

Originally posted by Rahima:

Point,

 

So let me get this straight, to argue that some people oppose the courts for clan reasons because they have many-a-times mentioned how they perceive for the courts to be qabiilist in their conduct and that they are basically one tribe, is to be clannish yourself? How does that work? These are their arguments, I’m only highlighting in a more simplistic fashion.

 

To call a spade a spade is a crime basically.

There are 2 issues here. One - if you are reducing other's opposition to the ICU only to terms of clan hatred - you most likely have an issue of clannishness. It could be true but there are likely other issues. It's much like those who want to bomb Hezbollah to the stone age reducing the argument to 'they just hate us because we're Jews'. Two - it depends on the frequency that you cite the argument of clan hatred as the primary reason for opposition to the ICU. If you are citing this on a regular basis in your posts then you have a rather unhealthy obsession with the clan aspect and thus most likely are clannish yourself. Again, it's much like the Jews who label any and all criticism of Israel as 'anti-semistism'. Now I haven't counted the number of times you have said that the opposition to the ICU is based on clan - but just anecdotally - I remember it being a lot. Otherwise I would have not directed my comment at you since there are many others who support the ICU vigorously.

 

 

 

As for Xamar, aren't the reporting from every single media outlet enough? I think that there is a consensus on this one, from the Somali media to the Muslim and western media. It's a unanimous point.

There is a distinct differentiation. The residents of Xamar are probably for the more peaceful and better conditions of their city but they may not necessarily be for the ICU. It is much like one being pleased about the peace and prosperity one has experienced as an immigrant to the US and being supportive of Bush. A eefinite leap there.

[Rahima]

quote:

 

Originally posted by Yo-Yo Ma:

Point....then we can safely the majority are weary of the never-ending choatic situation in Xamar, and are for peace and progress which the courts have managed to restore to Xamar.

 

N How does pointing out the clanish nature of others make you tribalistic?

 

I would agree with the first statment.

LOL, how is that any different than saying that the majority support the courts? Are we just playing with words here? People support the courts because of what they have achieved, is that not what Che wrote and you agreed with?

[ElPunto]

^Read the previous post! Words have meaning and one must carefully scrutinize before reaching a conclusion!

[Che -Guevara]

Ok Point....Wat if Iam jew always citing the reason why my fellow Jews trample on Arab rights is simply cuz they are Arabs.

 

I say this cuz some Planders do oppose solely on Qabiil bases. As someone who hails from the same region (meaning I have no tribal anomisity towards them), I do point dat out to them in their Fadhi ku dirir sessions.

[Rahima]

One - if you are reducing other's opposition to the ICU only to terms of clan hatred - you most likely have an issue of clannishness.

Since you are such an ardent observer of this forum, you may of have also noticed that there are many who oppose the courts and you may of have also noticed that I do not state that they all oppose for clan reasons. I highlight this point of those who are so obvious about it.

 

Two - it depends on the frequency that you cite the argument of clan hatred as the primary reason for opposition to the ICU.

I would agree with you if it were that I was mentioning this for no apparent reason, but obviously you had not noticed it, but my post was a response to the post of another in this thread. It was a reply in a forum. It was relevant and not off topic. To accuse an individual of clannishness without basis and to accuse them of repeating themselves aren’t exactly in the same category.

 

There is a distinct differentiation. The residents of Xamar are probably for the more peaceful and better conditions of their city but they may not necessarily be for the ICU.

At this current time the courts have achieved for the people of Xamar what they wanted and needed. That is the sticking point at the end of the day, so without resorting to poll taking, it would also be safe to say that the people of Xamar are satisfied with the actions of the ICU. That is and was my point, it’s unnecessary for us to make a simple point overly complex when it’s not.

 

As for words and wording, there really is no point arguing over it when you clearly understand what it is that i mean. No point discussing useless issues about wording really, when you perfectly well understand me.

[ElPunto]

^For those who are opposed to the ICU on a clan basis there is hardly a need to point that out if it is self-evident. Perhaps once is enough. By engaging these ppl and citing their opposition as clan hatred repeatedly, then you end up revitalizing this ugly sceptre.

 

As for the majority of residents of Xamar being in support of the ICU - we can agree to disagree. I believe that being happy with more peaceful and properous conditions does not automatically translate into support for the ICU.

[ElPunto]

Originally posted by Yo-Yo Ma:

Ok Point....Wat if Iam jew always citing the reason why my fellow Jews trample on Arab rights is simply cuz they are Arabs.

 

I say this cuz some Planders do oppose solely on Qabiil bases. As someone who hails from the same region (meaning I have no tribal anomisity towards them), I do point dat out to them in their Fadhi ku dirir sessions.

I'm sure some Planders do oppose solely on Qabiil basis but since to say that is hardly fashionable in polite society these days - you would have to read that into their statements. Which would mean you were actively hunting for a basis of opposition related to clan. This scheming and suspicious cast of mind is, to my mind, generally unhealthy.

[Che -Guevara]

^^^^Believe me....Among their Tul, people speak freely, one hardly needs to go on expedition or be blessed with scheming and suspicious mind, to locate their reasons for opposing the courts. They are blunt as to what motivates their oppisition to the courts. They simply say Nin (Insert Qabiil) iima talinayo. I don't need to possess their inclinations to point out their xenophobic response to the courts.

 

But atleast, there is no point in saying the obvious.

[Khalaf]

The Point brother, lets be real here. I get where u coming from but it seems those against the courts are against them because of qabil...simple.

 

 

They say it’s the same qabil, “criminals†of this clan which put on a different shirt hiding behind religion….and the main noise is coming from my ppl….reer Puntland. Time will tell I think. It makes me wonder if this would be this case if these men were from different clan….yes perhaps cause there are elements against religion…we all remember the wadaads killed in Puntland by Yusuf.

 

 

Sure that could be the case with opposition against the transitional government of Yusuf because of qabil….right now in somalia and in many somalis across the globe….qabil is stronger, hatered and mistrust is deep cause of the memories of civil war and previous Somali government of Barre its natural I think….blood is strong….however for those who understand and think of the greater good for the country including many of my ppl in Galkacyo they want an Islamic solution a government with aqeedah and following the Sunnah…progress, peace, stability, jobs, we are one ppl walaalhi….its best to leave this stone age of thinking in terms of qabil….its 2006 men has went to the moon, built railroads underground, trains under the ocean…sitting on billions of dollars and we still stuck in this backwardness of qabil….we have no roads, are ppl die of hunger/malnutrition. why can we put this bullshit behind us…put our heads together think bigger and build our country as one to compete in the world. I went to Europe and Dubai this summer…every time I travel I look at what was built by these ppl….and the situation of our ppl….why can’t we be a ppl that thinks greater then a region…qabil? Allah save Somalia….cause believe me hatered is deep in some ppl.

 

If the courts move to galkacyo miltary which I think they wont then its huge mistake

since I know for sure if different qabil even with Islamic banner moves into Galkacyo then a war would result. They are smarter then that.

 

salaamu lah