amatillah Posted July 25, 2005 Alhowza told me that I'm not a Shia if I don't believe the Raj'a. My question is how you can make sense out of this? Isn't once person is dead his/her book will be close? Will be open again, if so can they repent. Ecxaclly it's as you said by ur self.once person is dead his or her book will be close and it will not be opened again.we will only come back to life again when the day of Judgment comes and the life will be not same as this as we all know. The Prophet (pbuh), said: "When a person dies, he ceases to receive reward for his deeds with the exception of the following: establishing a foundation for the welfare of the public (for example, building a mosque, school, hospital, etc.), knowledge which has benefited others, and a virtuous offspring who supplicates for him." sister that's all what i want to say............ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muhammad Posted July 25, 2005 OG_Girl said: Sister, if things were that easy I wouldn't got problems. actually walaal, it is that simple and easy! wa'Salaam wr wb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salma Posted July 25, 2005 OG, Such things have nothing to do with unique logical views?!! Such questions and issues are only related to what is mentioned in the Holy Quraan and the Noble Sunna, that's it. Another thing is if there are any thing you want to ask, one advice to you sister, go to a well-trusted scholar, believe me you'll get all the answers inshallah. I mean simply, when we have tootache we go to the right person : to the Dentist, when we want to have a well-designed & elegant dress we go to the right person : to the tailor. When we want to have a specific delicious dish we go to a specific chef or a restaurant. So if you couln't get the answer cearly from the Holy Quraan and the Noble Sunna, go to an educated and well-trusted Shaikh. If you couldn't understand his words, go to another and tell him what the previous shaikh have told you. Now, Iam not that religously educated, but I know one thing. That the Miracles that used to happen for the Prophets (PBUT)& Saints in past are completely different from what will happen in the Future. ALlah (SWA) & The Prophet(PBUH) told us what will gonna happen in future. Nothing is mysterious & hidden. We all know what will happen in Future coz we were told earlier that the only Raja which is mentioned in the Major Signs of the Doom Day is that only Prophet Eissa (PBUH) will come back. While Al Mahdi is a nomral person from the Prophet's family. He will born normally and die normally. Regarding the other 13 sons of Imam ALi Bin Abi Talib , May Allah be pleased with them); they were normal Humans, they were born in a normal way, they lived in a normal way and they died in a normal way. Be sure if they would come back in the future the Prophet (PBUH) would have told us earlier ya OG. And by the way , they are NOT Masoomens coz even Ali Bin Talib wasn't a masoom. We certaily respect & love them not ONLY coz they are related to the Prophet (PBUH) but also coz they were good, decent and their faith was strong. But not Masoomeen, you can't put them in the same level of the Prophets and Angels. Never I can imagine (As a shia) you had been told many different things from what Iam saying/believing which is written in the Sunna book. But, at the end its related to you to find out where is the truth. So, for more information about this pls ask a shaikh. Surely Allah (SWT) qadir cla kel shay, he can say (KUN) fa yakoon. He can make the dead alive and the alive dead, but this is not the point right now. The point is about who will come back from the death in future. To be in the safe side, never give the choice & freedom in these matters to your logic. Its better always to follow the Quraan & Prophet (SAAW) Sunna not only about what will happen in the future but in everything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Haddad Posted July 25, 2005 Originally posted by OG_Girl: What you guys think about it. I want your own logical conclusions,and understanding that you learned from what you read about the topic. Sister, do you understand what you have asked for? Personal opinions. Do you think personal opinions pertain to Raj'a? You're asking a non-Shia audience what you're confused about your Shia beliefs. Think about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
S.O.S Posted July 25, 2005 OG Girl, I tried ones to explain the fundamentals of shiicaa creeds and show you how it conflicted with the Qur’aan (as you refused to accept the Sunnah and its sources), but you failed to come out in favour of the Qur’aan (I wanted to deal with the shiicaa beliefs regarding the Qur’aan as last) and distance yourself from all falsehoods that contradicted with divine revelation. For that reason I thought of you as dishonest as I would think of any person who does not reject the Book of Allah openly, but still refuse to accept its rulings. So I had to give up before I could explain the “Caqiidatul-rajacâ€, because my logic was that, if I posted the verse: “The only response of Believers, whenever they are summoned unto God and His Messenger that he may judge between them, id that thay say: We hear and we obey; those- they are prosperous.†(suuratul-Nuur 51) And from the wisdom of the Qur’aan can be understood that, since you did not respond as Believers would respond, namely “we hear and we obeyâ€, you may not really be a believer of the Qur’aan let alone its contents. Nevertheless, it was then, and “Wallaahu yahdee maa yashaaaa’â€, and hopefully you are now more open to the truth. Well, in brief, you are right, because whosoever denies “caqiidatul-rajac†is NOT a shiicaa! The belief entails that: a) people will come back to life on earth before the Saacah b) there will be three groups; the shiicaa (who are the best in faith), ahlus-sunnah (who are the worst in kufr) and the 12 imaams and all prophets c) this will start when the Hadi (nick name for their mahdi, which I prefer to call him as he is not the real Mahdi) returns from his hiding place in all those centuries, the graves of the so called “sanamayn†are dug out and Abu Bakr and Cumar (rc) are taken out still wet and alive, and when the earth splits and Xusayn (rc) emerges from his grave d) Cali (rc) will be the leader of the shiicaa and all the prophets will fight in his army e) Abu Bakr and Cumar (rc) are the leaders of ahlus-sunnah and will ultimately be burned f) Xusayn (rc) will judge the people and will have authority over who goes to heaven or hell g) every shiicaa will be given the choice whether he wishes to participate in the event or remain in his grave h) the blood of ahlus-sunnah will be running from the swords of the shiicaa as they chop them through their limbs and in pieces i) this will take place between Saffa and Marwa Event similar to this ones took place in history, when a psychopath shiicaa leader tried to copy this fantasy/self fulfilling prophesy, and attacked the Kacbah during Xajj time so that the blood of ahlus-sunnah would be dropping from the swords of the shiicaa army between Saffa and Marwa. On that occasion 60 000 (sixty thousand) people who came to Xajj were massacred and slaughtered, the pool of blood filled the Kacbah, they took the Shajratul-Aswad with them and kept for more than 20 years before it was brought back. To be honest with you, this whole believe is motivated by an animosity which runs deep into the veins of history, and with its imaginative thirst for the ultimate revenge where even death itself has failed to lesson, then it should be no surprise to us that their emotive psychology would suggest if God is unjust in this world, then definitely we should take justice into our hands. Even if it means taking back the authority of deciding between Heaven and Hell from God and give it to Xusayn (rc)! WCWW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nur Posted July 25, 2005 OG Girl I read the link about the Rajah concept as you have suggested, From the beginning I caught the flaw in the concept, neither the Verse in Quraan they quoted nor a Hadeeth from Ali radiyallahu canhu suggest the concept, it was one of many concepts added to original Shia fiqh which used to be very similar to Sunnah ( Like Zaydia) but, in the Ghaybatul Sughraa (65 years in which the last imam was absent from age 4 onwards) many concepts were added to Shiaism, Rajaaconcept takes a center stage of all in terms of being out of place with mainstream Islam. In a nutshel, the Rajah was a creation of that period, like many other concepts, if you go back and read the I am a Shia Too thread and look at my sources, you will see that most of these concepts where from a Book called Bihaarul Anwaar, which is the same book that the link uses as a source for the concept, so get your hands on that book if you can, sis, you are in for a surprise of your life. Nur Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mutakalim Posted July 25, 2005 OG_Girl, check your PM! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salma Posted July 26, 2005 Originally posted by OG_Girl: You just took me to something else.Seems no one got a clue what I'm talking about!! I know this topic isn't about the 'Isma' but coz you got your answers (the Link) from 14masoom.com I tried to draw your attention to another related point to your question. I hope you get the answers inshallah, the right ones not any answers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
S.O.S Posted July 26, 2005 Dear OG Girl, Surprise me for a change and comment on the content, you either believe it to be true or not and don’t be ashamed of what you believe. Your game has become too boring now, so lets conclude it once and for always. The challenge is very simple: If anything I said concerning shiicaa doctrines is untrue, then please prove me so! Game over! WCWW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RendezVous Posted July 26, 2005 ^^^^^^ QUOTATIONS....QUOTATIONS....AND PLAIN TRUTH Originally posted by Shams-ud-Din: OG Girl, “Wallaahu yahdee maa yashaaaa’â€..Meaning God Guides whomsoever he wants... whosoever denies “caqiidatul-rajac†is NOT a shiicaa!....It was Agreed... AQEEDATUL RAJAAC... The belief entails that: a) people will come back to life on earth before the Saacah b) there will be three groups; the shiicaa (who are the best in faith), ahlus-sunnah (who are the worst in kufr) and the 12 imaams and all prophets c) this will start when the Hadi (nick name for their mahdi, which I prefer to call him as he is not the real Mahdi) returns from his hiding place in all those centuries, the graves of the so called “sanamayn†are dug out and Abu Bakr and Cumar (rc) are taken out still wet and alive, and when the earth splits and Xusayn (rc) emerges from his grave d) Cali (rc) will be the leader of the shiicaa and all the prophets will fight in his army e) Abu Bakr and Cumar (rc) are the leaders of ahlus-sunnah and will ultimately be burned f) Xusayn (rc) will judge the people and will have authority over who goes to heaven or hell g) every shiicaa will be given the choice whether he wishes to participate in the event or remain in his grave h) the blood of ahlus-sunnah will be running from the swords of the shiicaa as they chop them through their limbs and in pieces i) this will take place between Saffa and Marwa WCWW OG GIRL are you satisfied with those answers by brother Shamsudeen..It is good when someone asks a question and gets the correct answers properly arranged..He/she should say ...Thanks.You haven't done so.. Instead of writing answers or follow up in arabic..which you are sure some few people understand or comprehend..and dwelling on irrelevant informations not concerning with your supposed answers..Kindly please accept facts or refuse them so that people can still get you more answers. This is what you wrote... أهل مكة أدري بشعابها ÙÙ†ØÙ† أدري منكم بما نؤمن.الÙرق بيني وبينك أنا أعمل جاهدة لتÙرقة بما هو معتقدات سائدة عندنا وبين ماهوموثق بينماهمك الوØيد هو التهجم على الأخرين وتكÙيرهم بما ليس لك به علم and you wrote So I came across this touchy poem. وق٠الشاعر كمال بن عبد الرØيم رشيد يوماً على نهر التايمز الإنجليزي Ùقال إيه يا نهر الظلام نهر المظالم - سر كما شئت ÙÙŠ الوجود وخاصم أنت جرعت أمتي كأس ذل٠- أنت أسلمت شعبنا للهزائم رضع الØقد منك ( بلÙور ) Øتى - كان عوناً لكل خصم٠وظالم كم ظلمت الشعوب ÙÙŠ كل أرض٠- كنت Ùيها بالقهر أكبر Øاكم والبلاد السوداء كم جرت Ùيها - واتخذت الشعوب مثل البهائم ÙÙŠ Ùلسطين ما Øرمنا أذاكم - وشربنا الزعا٠من كل غاشم٠كم تركتم ÙÙŠ أرضنا من ضØايا - وأقمتم ÙÙŠ ( دنشواي ) المآتم أرضكم ساØØ© الÙساد وأرضي - واØØ© الطهر والهدى والمكارم I think all that is irrelevant and not concerned with the questions you requested..and the answers you got.If you need 'TRUTH' and plain TRUTH...the answers are written...available quoted answers from Brother Shamsudeen.Did u accept them or refute them... and are u satisfied... Cajeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SayidSomal Posted July 27, 2005 Cajiib indeed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sweet_gal Posted August 1, 2005 I am not gonna try to answer you'r question because I don't know what ur talking about but all I have to say is I didn't know there somalian people who are shia existed.... I learned something new I guess. I don't know much about Shia people but from what I hear and see Shia people got it bad, I mean why would anyone want to beat themselves up or believe that the real quran is with a guy in some cave who disappeared ages ago!..... OG_girl we all know allah knows whats in our hearts, but come one thats not a reason to brush of everything! :rolleyes: I'll end with this One time I was going to pray at some place, and in that room where a group of shia people who were praying. Before I went in some girls were outside of the room waiting to pray once they were done and I asked them why are u guys not in there and they said "some shia people are praying there" And I was like how do u know they replied " they leave their hands by their side when they prey". I didn't really care so I went in wanting to just wait inside......... But once I went in my heart started beating like crazy, I got scared and as soon as they started saying things " ya ali" and arabic stuff I was even more scared.... I am not sure what to make of this experiecene... But I don't see any benefits or positive aspects of it... I know this wants ur topic, but I am making mine this! Oh one more things are u the type that bash the companions of prophet muhammed (saw)?????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RendezVous Posted August 1, 2005 Originally posted by sweet_gal: I mean why would anyone want to beat themselves up or believe that the real quran is with a guy in some cave who disappeared ages ago!..... OG_girl .........I know this wants ur topic, but I am making mine this! Oh one more things are u the type that bash the companions of prophet muhammed (saw)?????? Some say they are Shias...who was the Boss...Prophet Mohamed or Ali when they were alive...? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sweet_gal Posted August 1, 2005 Thx for the answer render( forgot your nick) what are you trying to say, sorry but I didn't understand you. Og Girl There are laws everywhere but you know group of people can come together and bash companions of prophet muhammed (saw) without anyone knowing except allah. You know when I look at Christians and how inlove they are with Jesus because he died for them. Its like what's wrong with their thinking. I didn't even use to know such thing as shia existed. But now I do and I know more about them then just that they exist. Why do you people put so much energy into Ali and Ali and more Ali. Ali wasn't the messenger. Ali aint gonna do u nothing. I just can't understand. It's like Christians caring all too much about Jesus. If Ali didn't become a succesor so what? I just don't get it. Whats so special about the 12 imams of you'r anyways. They are just 12 imams whats the point of praying to their graves. And why do u people do temporary marriages. Is that how low women are to be treated like a rag and passed along? One month and thats it! A guy once tried to expose shia people and their hidden agenda and secrets but guess what they did to him. they killed him. True or not but I heard story about a women in Iran who married some old guy probably an iman but anyways and then a few months later he leaves never to be seen again, the women got pregnant and had a baby girl. Oh you know I heard that Iran has the greates number of kids without fathers present, yes the guys marry the women but once they need to leave they ditch the women and the kid. Continuing with the story once the baby girl grew up and that same old dude came again for some "temporary marriage" and married his own daughter. Now what were these people thinking temprary marriage is a good idea for? Why shia trying to change the message of Allah. Who is Ahlbeyt????????????????????????????????????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Johnny B Posted August 1, 2005 I didn't even use to know such thing as shia existed. really? how innocent? that ignorance of yours triggers the question of your knowledge about your religion. there are supposed to be other three doctorines than your supposedly Shafi . Why do you people put so much energy into Ali and Ali and more Ali. Ali wasn't the messenger. Ali aint gonna do u nothing. Typical non-Shiia steareotype , anyhoo ,So far so good , but .... I just can't understand. It's like Christians caring all too much about Jesus. there you crossed a line , dnt you realize .. you dnt compare a muslim brother to a christian , even if you dislike or hate thier view in Islam. Time to appologize for the sister n all the Shia muslim brothers n sisters ,, dnt u think so? First learn or Chew n chew as they .. then n ONLY then , MAKE your mind n have ur OWN bird view. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
