Somaliland transfers custody of Oromo man to Ethiopia

[Abtigiis]

I don't agree with you Ngonge. How will the presence of an Oromo miskiin harm the people of Somaliland. Nothing to be philosophical about here, Xaaji. Waa qalad ku daa arinta.

[NGONGE]

^^ Which brings me back to my first question. Why this Miskiin in particular? Is he the last Oromo in Somaliland? If not, then he must have been arrested for a reason. Could it be that the Xabashis demanded his arrest?

 

Wrong and right is not the issue here. A government's first duty is always to its citizens. If the two sides have already agreed on some sort of extraditing system there is nothing wrong with the actions of Somaliland (or any other country in the same position). In an ideal world of course, you would expect the man to be tried in Somaliland and not extradited outside (not unless he committed or is accused of committing crimes abroad). In an ideal world you would expect his human rights to be respected. But this is not an ideal world. It never was and never will be. This leaves us with the best next thing, which is that each country has to act in the way that serves its citizens best.

 

ps

His presence harms Somaliland politically. Why fall out with such a powerful neighbour over one Oromo (or even a guilty Somalilander)?

[N.O.R.F]

^^You're saying SL would be invaded by Ethiopia if it doesn't play ball miya?

[Abtigiis]

Nobody wants to listen to you stating the obvious. People have been expressing their moral outrage over what happened, probably from Islamic and humanitarian point of view. That the world is imperfect, doesn't make inhumane treatment of human beings right.

 

This is the third such reckless comment I saw. Dib isugu noqo old man.

 

The last statement is not nice either. Somaliland is not gettting anything in return for its loyalty to the Tigray regime, except upsetting the potential rulers of Ethiopia, oromo's and their somaligalbeed neighbours.

 

Last, since when is anybody sough by a dictatorial regime, a criminal? Couldn't he have been targeted because of his conscince and beliefs alone?

[AYOUB]

.....

[AYOUB]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

^^ In the examples you give, do they pick random people of the street and hand them over? Why this particular Oromo man? Why the ones before him?

If the SL authorities abduct and sometimes secretly rendition people then there's no way of knowing how "random" it was in the first place. All I know is, on several occasions ministers have accused people who challenged their unjust policies of being "alqaaciida".

 

Your question is linked to something the likes Xiin avoid discussing at any cost. The crisis in Mogadishu was sparked by warlord's abduction and secret rendition of Wadaads to American bases in Djibouti. These were totally random abduction. Any man with a beard and short enough garments was a target. When some wadaads were "returned to senders" after being cleared by the torturers, the cat was out of the bag. When more Wadaads were returned, the warlords resorted to executing them. This in the end lead to the warlords vs. Wadaads clashes and the rest is history. The warlords did not do it for "the safety of majority" or "survival". If these warlords are part of future State the likes of Xiin believe will come out Djibouti talks, will it not be business as usual?

[Abtigiis]

Ngone and Xinn lalama doodi karoo. Waa sida basal oo kale oo kol beel bay kaaga iman. They are moving target camal.

[NGONGE]

Ayuub,

 

You have hit me with a collection of non sequitur there, saaxib. What have the actions of the warlords to do with one that regards itself as a government (note the distinction please)? You have already stated in your earlier post that other governments did exactly the same thing. However, you forgot to add that in almost all of those situations there was a case to be answered (that you chose to label the Libyan guys innocent was only your word and has no proof whatsoever).

 

We can play with words if it will make you all happy and decry the arrest of an innocent man. But, is he innocent? Has it been established that he is innocent? Are you at all interested in that fact? I daresay that none of you are. The issue with you is that he is being handed to the Ethiopians. You don't care for guilt or not. It is a case of principles and morals not one of good governance. Well, I am telling you that the world does not work that way (as your own testament earlier proves). Governments do what is in the best interests for them and their people.

 

 

Originally posted by Norf 1:

^^You're saying SL would be invaded by Ethiopia if it doesn't play ball miya?

No. I am not saying this. I am saying that refusing to hand him over will hurt the interests of Somaliland. It is politics, pure and simple. If the man is a threat to Ethiopia and that country asked Somaliland to extradite him then Somaliland will have to do what is in its best interests. Moral gestures and pointless defiance are not in the interests of Somaliland TODAY. This has nothing to do with the ruling party either. Anyone ruling Somaliland would have had to do the same thing. Otherwise Somaliland stands to lose more by its defiance than its cooperation.

 

A&T says there should be some moral outrage because this is WRONG! I am afraid I can't do that and pretend to be sane. What matters here is pragmatism, real politic and anything that will ensure the safety, prosperity and advancement of Somaliland. Some call it Africa's Best Kept Secret, I see it as a hellhole in the backside of Africa that is trying to rescue itself and improve. Being such a hellhole I am more than happy to suspend judgment and not fall into a wailing frenzy every time it does something that is far from the ideal. I don't know, call me practical.

 

ps

You would think the Oromos, ONLF fans and others would learn the lesson and know not to trust Somaliland. Yet, still they come and put themselves at risk. It is dog eat dog, my friends.

[N.O.R.F]

^In one instant you're asking wether this man is indeed guilty of a crime and in the next you're saying he should be handed over if he is merely a threat to Ethiopia!

 

There is no extradition treaty between the two (there goes your first point) and I don't think I need to get into the problem with your latter argument. Either way such action is wrong.

[Gheelle.T]

NG, what if Ethiopia ask for the head of Somalilander whom Ethiopia says is a thread to its security? Say a big shot Burcawi Sheikh with 100 of thousands of local supporters, or one of the Sultans. In this scenario where will the SL admin's interest lie?

[NGONGE]

^^^ That is a different proposition. A Somalilander with thousands of supporters (as you suggest) will present the administration with a quandary. They will have to decide which option best suits their interests. Is this really that hard to fathom?

 

 

Norf,

It's all very simple, saaxib. Is he some random Oromo that was arrested as he was taking a stroll down some street or is he known to the Ethiopian authorities and they demanded his extradition. I am not at all contradicting myself. I am merely showing the weakness of your argument (your here is plural). Scroll up and read how many said that he was an innocent maskiin. Is he? How do you know?

 

The second part of my argument is that if he is a suspect of sorts and Ethiopia demands his extradition then Somaliland has no choice but to oblige. You can shout that it is wrong all you like. For Somaliland's interests, it is the right thing to do. What would you suggest they do? I hope you give me a reasonable reply there, saaxib.

[N.O.R.F]

Saxib, why are you asking about the Oromo man and wether or not he is known to Ethiopian authorities then ask about an extradition treaty? You ask about his innocence but the same extradition treaty (the mechanism that would determine if he is innocent or not) is not in place. Thus making his 'extradition' illegal and wrong.

 

Your second argument concentrates on the political games required to survive. This particular issue should be dealt with in a manner that shows Ethiopia they can't take Somalis as and when they like. Such challenges are what politicians encounter and such submissiveness only shows the admin's weakness. They have more chips to play with than they realise.

[AYOUB]

Ngonge

If you don't care about the moral and religious side of this issue then it is in the interest of Somaliland that authorities follow the laws of the land.

 

PS Meles' regime is not powerful in my book.

[Jacaylbaro]

You guys just talk too much.

 

Ngonge is right here. It is all politics and the kind of agreement between two countries.

 

Norf, YES there is a extradition treaty between Somaliland and Ethiopia since the 90s and thus many criminals were handed over to Somaliland from cities in Ethiopia.

 

This Oromo guy was said to be one of the Military generals of Ethiopia and took part the war between Ethiopia and Eritrea ,, then for some reason he was arrested by the Ethiopians then released after a while ,,, he then for some reason left Ethiopia and chose to stay here in Somaliland.

 

The story looks true according to my own sources but the reason behind this was unclear for the moment.

[N.O.R.F]

^^We all know the political situation and why SL is handing people over to Ethiopia but it's still WRONG! My point to Ngonge was that he is asking if there is a treaty and if the right protocols have been followed (his questioning on this man's innocence) then he says SL should hand over anyone Ethiopia deems a suspect because of the political situation and in order to save the people (making any treaty pointless).

 

You're our only source for news on this man and the reasons behind his extradition so I might just take your word for it. But the question will remain on all those Somalis handed over just because Ethiopia said he/she is a threat.