The International Crisis Group's response

[codetalker]

I can understand, to some extent, when Adeer TOLSTOY re-writes history to please himself. But this takes the cake:

 

any tribally-minded Folks who are within Somaliland's boundary, but are suseptible to believe in this bogus argument of Political ********* that Col. Yey had minted it, for his own political ambition, back in that year of 1998;

Let me see if I get your equation right:

 

Laascaanood uniting with Garoowe = tribally-minded folks (how primitive! )

 

Hargaysa uniting with Burco = nationalism?

 

So, basically, the bloodline between Reer Hargaysa and Reer Burco is God's gift to them. But the bloodline between Reer Laascaanood and Reer Garoowe is "bogus", in your opinion. But you forget to tell the world why you think its "bogus": basically, because acknowledging that bloodline doesn't suit your political interests of the moment!

 

Any village i.diot can see through the hollowness of your argument. Even me.

 

[ April 07, 2006, 00:45: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

[xiinfaniin]

That was, good Oodweyne, very realistic, and particularly somber, I may add, assessment based on the stubborn facts on the ground, and not on your customary cheery song of how-big-my-garden-should-be stuff. It's also a big improvement for you finally emerged from that ever-hanging emotional fog with a clear mental picture of how complicated the case of secession really could be.

 

 

The two arguments you presented are classic example of conflict of interest between those who want to brakeaway and those who see no reason for this hasty and opportunistic withdrawal from the union. That conflict of interest is also a telling depiction of the clannish reality of the whole deal. It all boils down, good Oodweyne, to this question: what’s in it for me? I know it won’t sit well with you, but you must’ve realized by now that telling the truth is a cardinal task for me from which I rarely shrink. If the political power of your folks is directly proportional to the outcome of the independence bid: grows if it succeeds or shrinks otherwise. The opposite would be true with the folks whose choice you deemed to be a thorn in your side. What that means is if the people of LA (D people) and LQ (W people) decide to support your self-determination suggestion there would be no tangible political advantage for them as a result of that choice. Why would they do it then? Apparently they won’t for the simple reason---beside its legal complication and sheer moral bankruptcy---that it doesn’t reflect their interest at all. It could be the case that the likes of you are willing to leave no stone unturned to reach a compensating arrangement to persuade them, but the deep ancestral connections and history would stand in the way of such effort and render it unsuccessful.

 

Now faced with the daunting task of convincing the world the merits of its case combined with its inability to find a plausible solution for the looming internal segmentation of it, Somaliland’s independence bid still remains an ambitious plan on paper .

 

What say you good Oodweyne?

[AYOUB]

^^^ Your buddies have two options; being part and parcel or just parcels

 

Nite nite.

[Taleexi]

Dear Mr. Oodweyne,

 

I must say that you finally realized the fallacies of your monolithic, long-struggled ideology regarding Somaliland’s elusive recognition. As you wished and wanted us to believe, indeed, conflicts the reality on the ground as you confessed ultimately, this is what I call Wiseman’s move because we are debating here what are feasible rather than solely wishes.

 

Furthermore, I noticed that in your dictionary the difference between a clan administration and a state administration requires further tuning, and I am sensing that you are already flipping those pages which I think is a progress. To my amusement what you wrote didn’t make a sense at all, when you said the following;

 

Now, given that we know now that is not the present situations, due to the military involvement of Puntland, in so far as that city of Las-Anod is concern; then that solution will be difficult to effect as it stand at the moments; but if things changed, and Somaliland - by either political cunning or military measures - were able to established it's rule and authority across the whole of the territories of proper Somaliland; then the prospects of that solution will be infinitely more appealing, and hence, any tribally-minded Folks who are within Somaliland's boundary, but are suseptible to believe in this bogus argument of Political .... that Col. Yey had minted it, for his own political ambition, back in that year of 1998; would of been in a position, to be offered a new political deal within Somaliland's constitutional edifice.

Waar Adeer, I am assuming that the nerves which are supposed to transfer the brain-processed info to your fingertips have attenuated and distorted the facts, in all accounts I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and this time I am blaming your keyboard pins. Moreover, when you say Political .... what about the ... dogma that you are calling for in the North?, will it ever succeed?. in addition when you talk about the minority in which context are you talking about, the one in Somalia as a whole or in SL, be whichever you like, apparently easterners want unity as they shown time and again and if you let them go to their way the whole thesis of your political discourse will crumble. My Dear friend, Mr.Oodweyne, we know that you can neither bring the easterners into line by war nor appeasement?, so what is your solution to the problem?. Horaa loo yidhi rag walaalo wuxuu ku dhaamo la waa ee armay ku wacan tahay inaad deris wanaag muujisid

 

[ April 07, 2006, 00:41: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

[Gabbal]

Originally posted by AYOUB_SHEIKH:

^^^ Your buddies have two options; being part and parcel or just parcels

 

Nite nite.

Oh, but you aren't going anywhere.

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

Stating qabiilo names explicitly will always be edited, aqiyaarta.

[Taleexi]

Dear Mr.MMA

 

A Reminder!, my friend I am neither comfortable nor content that my respond to Mr. Oodweyne triggered your editing, it feels like that Mr. Oodweyne can go away with anything while the rest of us are required abiding to the golden rules of SOL.

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

Saaxiib, I mostly come here at night shifts, this time around. Wixii qabiil lagu dhigo meeshaan, ama aroor ha ahaato ama habeen, markaan imaado habeenkii ayaan fiiriyaa. Otherwise, Admin. does mararka kale.

 

Your post didn't 'trigger' me to edit it. I edited all of them, wixii saaka ama galabta la qoray to now. Hadaa si kale u fasiratay, waan ka xumahay.

[Taleexi]

Understood my dear friend and thanks for the clarification

[AYOUB]

Originally posted by Mansa Munsa:

we know that you can neither bring the easterners into line by war nor appeasement?, so what is your solution to the problem?.

Horaa loo yidhi rag walaalo wuxuu ku dhaamo la waa

ee armay ku wacan tahay inaad deris wanaag muujisid

Mate that's nothing new and has been Somaliland's policy for years.. The problems is not what you call 'easterners' but outsiders like Cando Muuse (current troubles in Sanaag) and Col. Yuusuf Yey before him. "Carrot and stick" options are available - especially when dealing with the outsiders - but how Somaliland deals with this "problem" can best be summed by the former President of the Republic when he said..

 

"There are places where loyalty to what we call the Republic of Somaliland is being externally challenged, by other factions from the south.

 

At first, people from the south - whatever they were doing to their own patch - they left us alone. But recently, over the last six or seven months, there has been a direct challenge, from what is known as Puntland, to the integrity and stability of Somaliland. We don't want to start doing what they do in the south and fight - we don't want that. We want to fight for the minds and the loyalty of people, not with a gun, but with principles."

 

http://www.africa.upenn.edu/Hornet/irin51899.html

 

 

Originally posted by codetalker:

Hargaysa uniting with Burco = nationalism?

People of Awdal voting for Kulmiye MP is...

[Duco Qabe]

Friends:

 

Without going thru Odweyne's long but short on substance rhetoric let me just say at least we agree that there are two main political views in the the former British Somaliland: One for a united Somalia and the other for the dismemberment of the nation. I certainly belong to the former group. Simply because that is the better option for every one.

 

As to the claim that those of us who are for united Somalia are a minority in the North, I honestly do not get it. As far as I know there is no credible referendum done in Somaliland so far to test who are more numerous: the unionists or the secessionists. So in my opinion anybody who claims otherwise is just spreading hogwash.

 

As to other clannish issues you raised I do not bother to answer for I detest clannism and what it did to Somalia. But if one needs to find out who is more clannish all you need to do is to go online and browse for few minutes the so called Somaliland websites and judge it for yourself. I guarantee that you will be surprised with how much hypocrisy and hatred are being preached in these so called news sites. Regrettably, that is what the secessionists call free media, but obviously they are not interested in telling the truth. Suffice it to say that their poster boy is Ina Cali Waraabe, the Neo-Nazi who would make Hitler and Mussolini angels from heaven.

 

Salaam and have a nice weekend every body.

 

Duco Qabe

----

Abeeso ninkii koriyow adigaa u aayi.

[AYOUB]

^^ If you want to find out who's more clannish, isn't it much easier to judge by which towns have road-blocks spliting towns along clan lines, like Gaalkacyo, Xamar etc etc

[SOO MAAL]

Ducaqabe

Simply because that is the better option for every one.

True, United Somalia is the better option for all politically, economically, socially, etc

 

We cannot divide Somalia according to former European colonies, because it does not make sense in 21 century and everyone wants, also we cannot divide Somalia along the clan lines because it does make sense also, as we know Somali people are most homogenous people in whole Africa with one nation, one people, one race, one culture, one language, one religion, etc

[Taleexi]

Originally posted by AYOUB_SHEIKH:

^^ If you want to find out who's more clannish, isn't it much easier to judge by which towns have road-blocks spliting towns along clan lines, like Gaalkacyo, Xamar etc etc

Dear Mr. AYOUB_SHEIKH,

 

How your rationality has been diminishing its essence over the course of this political discussion is beyond believe. In Somalia the most divided, dangerous territory in clan sense is the north. If slightest error of misunderstanding takes place in the outskirts of Adhi-Ade we all can anticipate what may come into play. Moreover, no body needs to be a rocket scientist to figure out the threat which the occupation of your clan militias in some parts of Sool pose to the stability of the region as a whole.

 

Finally, till you guys, in your part, show virtue towards the peace process of Somalia nothing will change in our part.

[Duco Qabe]

My Dearest Mansa Mussa:

Let me suggest to the old dude from Mali, not worry about the new age Goebels of today. Our comaptriots who are for are trying to dismantle our great nation do not shy away from telling lies. They will go to any length to sell their petty project to the world at any cost. They are the new followers of the Minister of Propaganda of the Nazi regime. They defineitely subscribe to his ideals: If you repeat a lie over and over again, it will ultimately become the truth.

 

That is thier motto. The world knows better. Ultimately the truth will come out and the xenophobes will be outed by our galant people in some of the strongholds of the secessionists who were duped.

 

Their project is already unravelling and I give them few more months. So my freind let Yahoo's continuo to shout from the top of their heads.

 

Duco Qabe