Dividing Palestinians Won’t Work

[Jacaylbaro]

Dividing Palestinians Won’t Work

Aren't they already divided ??

 

Muslim and Christian

Sunni and Shi'ah

Muslim Extremists and Secularists

Supporters of Iran and Supporters of USA

Supporters of Israel (SHAME ! ! ! )

Jihadists

Democracy supporters

Bacthists

Socialists

etc ...........

[N.O.R.F]

Things are beginning to come out into the open,,,

 

Hamas acted on a very real fear of a US-sponsored coup

 

 

Washington's fingerprints are all over the chaos that has hit Palestinians. The last thing they now need is an envoy called Blair

 

Jonathan Steele

Friday June 22, 2007

The Guardian

 

 

Did they jump or were they pushed? Was Hamas's seizure of Fatah security offices in Gaza unprovoked, or a pre-emptive strike to forestall a coup by Fatah? After last week's turmoil, it becomes increasingly important to uncover its origins.

 

The fundamental cause is, of course, well known. Israel, aided by the US, was not prepared to accept Hamas's victory in last year's Palestinian elections. Backed by a supine EU, the two governments decided to boycott their new Palestinian counterparts politically and punish Palestinian voters by blocking economic aid. Their policies had a dramatic effect, turning Gaza even more starkly into an open prison and creating human misery on a massive scale. The aim was to turn voters against Hamas - a strategy of ********* as well as cynicism, since outside pressure usually produces resistance rather than surrender.

 

The policy shocked even moderate western officials like James Wolfensohn, the former World Bank chief, whom the Americans had appointed to help Gaza's economy before the Hamas election victory. "The result was not to build more economic activity but to build more barriers," he said this week while explaining why he resigned in disagreement with US and Israeli strategy.

 

It is also well known that Hamas was as surprised by its election victory as everyone else and that it offered its rival, Fatah, a coalition government of national unity. The offer was refused. If this was done initially out of wounded pride, Fatah's rejection of Hamas's regularly repeated overtures increasingly appeared to be coordinated with Washington as part of the boycott strategy.

 

Reports have been circulating for months of a more sinister side to the boycott. According to them, the US decided last year on a plan to arm and train Mahmoud Abbas's presidential guard in a deliberate effort to confront and defeat Hamas militarily. Israel has already locked up several dozen Hamas legislators and mayors from the West Bank. The next stage was to do the same in Gaza but have Palestinians, rather than Israelis, run the crackdown.

 

Arming insurgents against elected governments has a long US pedigree and it is no accident that Elliott Abrams, the deputy national security adviser and apparent architect of the anti-Hamas subversion, was a key player in Ronald Reagan's supply of weapons to the Contras who fought Nicaragua's elected government in the 1980s.

 

Documents doing the rounds in the Middle East purport to have evidence for Abrams's "hard coup" strategy. One text recounts Washington's objectives as expressed in US officials' conversations with an Arab government. These are, among others, "to maintain President Abbas and Fatah as the centre of gravity on the Palestinian scene", "avoid wasting time in accommodating Hamas's ideological conditions", "undermine Hamas's political status through providing for Palestinian economic needs", and "strengthen the Palestinian president's authority to be able to call and conduct early elections by autumn 2007".

 

The document is dated March 2, less than a month after Saudi Arabia brokered the Mecca agreement under which Abbas finally agreed with Hamas on a unity government. The deal upset the Israelis and Washington because it left Hamas's prime minister Ismail Haniyeh in charge. The document suggests the US wanted to sabotage it. Certainly, according to Hamas officials whom a depressed Abbas later briefed, Abbas was told to scrap Mecca at every subsequent meeting he has had with Israeli prime minister Ehud Olmert or with US secretary of state Condoleezza Rice and Abrams.

 

Most ominously, the document of US objectives outlined a $1.27bn programme that would add seven special battalions, totalling 4,700 men, to the 15,000 Abbas already has in his presidential guard and other security forces, which were also to be given extra training and arms. "The desired outcome will be the transformation of Palestinian security forces and provide for the president of the Palestinian Authority to able to safeguard decisions such as dismissing the cabinet and forming an emergency cabinet," the document says.

 

Alastair Crooke, a former Middle East adviser to the EU foreign policy chief, Javier Solana, and current head of a research institute in Beirut, points out that Israel blocked some arms deliveries. It was wary of sending too many into Gaza for fear Fatah might lose them, as indeed has happened. In this sense, only part of the plan went ahead. (Britain has played a small part in helping Abbas's security forces. It has provided about £350,000 of "non-lethal" equipment this year for protecting the Karni freight crossing between Gaza and Israel.)

 

But Crooke says Hamas was irritated that the Mecca deal was being sabotaged, notably by the refusal of Mohammed Dahlan, Fatah's long-time Gaza strongman and head of the Preventive Security Forces, to accept the authority of the independent interior minister appointed to the unity government. "Dahlan refused to deal with him, and put his troops on the streets in defiance of the interior minister. Hamas felt they had little option but to take control of security away from forces which were in fact creating insecurity," Crooke says.

 

Ahmed Yousef, a Hamas spokesman, confirms the movement thought it had to move fast. In his words, last week's events were "precipitated by the American and Israeli policy of arming elements of the Fatah opposition who want to attack Hamas and force us from office".

 

While Hamas has successfully blocked the US-Fatah plans for Gaza, Abbas is trying to implement them in the West Bank by forming an emergency government. The policy is doomed since the constitution says such a government can only last 30 days. Parliament has to renew it by a two-thirds majority, and parliament is controlled by Hamas. The only sensible policy for Abbas must be to end the effort to marginalise Hamas. He should go back to the Mecca agreement and support a unity government. Even now, Hamas says it is willing to do so.

 

Where does all this leave the White House idea to involve Tony Blair as a Middle Eastern envoy? It creates a "coalition of the discredited" - Bush, Olmert and Blair - and sounds like something from a satire since Blair has no credibility with Hamas or most other Palestinians. Better to leave it to the Saudis to revive the Mecca deal, or wait until Abbas realises he has fallen into a trap. Neither common sense nor democratic principles, let alone time, are on Fatah's side.

 

CiF

[Castro]

Where does all this leave the White House idea to involve Tony Blair as a Middle Eastern envoy? It creates a "coalition of the discredited" - Bush, Olmert and Blair - and sounds like something from a satire since Blair has no credibility with Hamas or most other Palestinians. Better to leave it to the Saudis to revive the Mecca deal, or wait until Abbas realises he has fallen into a trap. Neither common sense nor democratic principles, let alone time, are on Fatah's side.

[BiLaaL]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

[QB] BiLal,

Civilians did die in this latest conflict. Most did so at the hands of Hamas fighters

.

Whats you're definition of a civilian? At least in Gaza, Hamas were battling Fatah's security forces. At what stage does a gun-wielding Fatah fighter become a civilian?

 

Your notion that Abbas stopped his security forces from fighting back in Gaza is totally flawed. Fatah's Western-armed but poorly trained fighters were completely routed by Hamas fighters. Serious analysts are in agreement with regards to this point. There's more to the story as Northerner's post indicates. This is a breaking story so don't draw any hasty conclusions just yet.

 

P.S. I'd caution you against greeting other people's posts with a concert of abuse. The ignorance slur was totally uncalled for. If you have a point to contend then do so but without resorting to slurs.

[Castro]

SUNDAY, JUNE 24, 2007

20:38 MECCA TIME, 17:38 GMT

 

Haniya rejects Israel-Arab summit

 

The former Palestinian prime minister has rejected a summit of Israeli and Arab leaders to be held in Egypt, saying only "resistance" would produce results for his people.

 

Speaking in Gaza, which his Hamas movement overran earlier this month, Ismail Haniya also dismissed as bribery Israel's decision on Sunday to release Palestinian tax funds.

 

Haniya was removed from his post by Mahmoud Abbas, the president and Fatah leader, after days of intense factional fighting in the Gaza Strip.

 

The Hamas-led unity government had been under an economic boycott, with Israel withholding tax revenue and the US and Europe holding back aid.

 

Haniya said: "The Americans won't give anything. Israel won't give us anything. Our land, our nation will not come back to us except with steadfastness and resistance."

 

He called any hopes generated by the summit a "mirage" and "illusions."

 

Haniya called Israel's release of the tax money "financial bribery" and "political blackmail" aimed at "deepening the crisis and divisions" between Fatah and Hamas.

 

"It is our right and our money," Haniya said. "But this money ... should reach all the Palestinian people."

 

Haniya said that isolation would not force his group to give up power in Gaza.

 

He accused Abbas of violating Palestinian law by dismissing his government, saying that the president's actions have resulted in the separation of Hamas-ruled Gaza from a Fatah-dominated West Bank.

 

Rather than weaken Hamas, Haniya said: "Experience proves that the more pressure on Hamas and the greater the siege will only increase Hamas's strength."

 

Tit-for-tat

 

Haniya also accused the United States of providing Fatah forces with money and arms in order to "oust Hamas or push it to make political concessions", suggesting Hamas's violent takeover of the Gaza Strip earlier this month was defensive.

 

"The arms and money [for Fatah] showed that things were going towards a pre-planned explosion," Haniya said in his first major speech since Hamas routed Fatah's forces in Gaza and seized control of the coastal territory.

 

Fatah, in return, accuses Hamas of accepting arms and money from Iran and of plotting to overthrow Abbas.

 

Haniya denied any Iranian role. "We are not under the influence of anyone," he said.

 

The Israeli government approved in principle on Sunday the unfreezing of the money as part of measures to boost Abbas after he fired the Hamas-led cabinet and replaced it with a cabinet made up of moderates and experts.

 

The move came as Ehud Olmert, the Israeli prime minister, prepared to head to a summit in the Sinai resort of Sharm al-Sheikh on Monday with Abbas and the leaders of Egypt and Jordan aimed at working together to isolate Hamas.

 

Haniya tried to draw attention away from the Fatah-Hamas conflict, saying repeatedly that the real problem facing the Palestinians is Israeli occupation.

 

"Our battle is with the occupation that has been here for more than 60 years," he said.

 

He called for dialogue between the factions. "There is no alternative to dialogue on the basis of ... no separation of the homeland and of our people".

 

Kidnapped journalist

 

Haniya also referred to the case of Alan Johnston, the British journalist, kidnapped on March 12 in Gaza.

 

Haniya denounced the kidnapping, saying it harms Palestinian interests.

 

He also made a reference to a videotape showing Johnston wearing an explosives belt of the type used by Palestinian suicide bombers. The recording has not been seen in public.

Al Jazeera

[Johnny B]

Originally posted by BiLaaL:

P.S. I'd caution you against greeting other people's posts with a concert of abuse. The ignorance slur was totally uncalled for. If you have a point to contend then do so but without resorting to slurs.

hmmmm, wanna borrow my helmet? you sure gonna need it!.

 

If we put the "politique ala Somali method" of ours aside and try to analytically find out the direction of the plastinian question i think Ngonge and president Abbas are the way to go about , but if we think with our Arabic guts and Islamic bravery the way to go is about Hamas and that green flag.

 

Now that might sound biased and pro-Fatah stance and it may as well be so , yet it is not only that but a reality that demands nothing less than a complete acknowledgement and compliance, if thinking is done using our minds, that is.

 

The plastinians are people under occupation,therefore lack the freedom to decide the kind of government they desire or vote in as the case was with Hamas.

 

Hamas though democratically ellected in office is sadly not the kind of government a people under occupation need most.

 

Hamas might be the ideal government of free plastine, but now its a hinder to that very freedom becouse of its unrealistic agenda.

 

Hamas represents the emotions of the plastinians while Fatah represents their minds, and when you're under occupation having your priorities ordered is a crucial prerequiste for success.

 

Hamas is fighting the war of a tomorrow that never comes, since Hamas refuses to go to bed tonight.

 

Israel, US and the EU unmercifully demand from the plastinians to put Hamas to bed atleast for now, but what they don't understand is the psyche of Arab guts mixed with Islamic bravery.

 

"All or nothing" is everything but an option for the plastinians in general and for Hamas in particular, yet unfortunately, for Hamas a coefficient expressing the responsiveness of a the plastinians to a constant/periodic occupation, its the only option, and that is where things get relative.

 

Now, For Hamas and all those plastinians who think with their guts,there are two ways to realize a freedom, one is through force the other is through force, but to be realistic none of that is realizeable since the plastinians are (have been) already under occupation, Fatah is a third way to "half-freedom","maybe-freedom" and "camp-david-freedom".

 

Quite a choice to make for a plastinian , woulden't we all agree?

[Castro]

Originally posted by Johnny B:

Israel, US and the EU unmercifully demand from the plastinians to put Hamas to bed atleast for now, but what they don't understand is the psyche of Arab guts mixed with Islamic bravery.

JB, what is the alternative to "Islamic bravery"? Secular submission to the west? Clan collaboration with the occupiers? Do Castro and Chavez also have an Islamic bravery fever? What happened to Abbas' Islamic bravery? Washed away with too much money in a Swiss account? Give me a break saaxib. If the Palestinian people had any love for Fatah they would not have voted for Hamas. They wanted change and they naively thought they got it. Instead, they suffered a crushing economic embargo militarily enforced by the dabodhilif in Fatah from within and Israeli might from without. Sound familiar? As a Somali, you ought to at least know there's nothing worse than your own kind selling you out.

[N.O.R.F]

^^Not sure what JB is basing his judgments on but he thinks Hamas were actually given a chance to rule.

 

News for JB, Hamas were never given a chance to 'rule' from day one. From economic embargoes to security.

 

Haniya's speech last night said alot about the situation and I'm glad he made things clear.

[Legend of Zu]

This saga was brewing months ago when you think about it carefully it is as if there was a contingency plan in place way before Hamas won the election.

 

If you are a chess player you know to deliberate and potentially predict what could be the next not-one but few steps of your opponent. In this case, Hamas is trying to figure how the apparent moves of Isreal and the US in conjunction with Fatah could give them a glimse of the next five or six moves. In this do not be surprised if you see Hamas acting contradictory day in and day out and eventually do the unthinkable of giving in. Tho to make it difficult for the Isreali group, Hamas will refuse the bait and then take all the unexpected routes; more like follow the Iranian Model...it will be very interesting

 

Cheers

[N.O.R.F]

^^Aid is pouring in now and early elections have been called. Is this aid tied to how people vote again? They are hoping people see the aid as a benefit of voting for Fatah.

 

ps Abbas was talking about a coup the other day. How could a govnt (Hamas) try a coup?

[Jacaylbaro]

Originally posted by Northerner:

^^Not sure what JB is basing his judgments on but he thinks Hamas were actually given a chance to rule.

 

News for JB, Hamas were never given a chance to 'rule' from day one. From economic embargoes to security.

 

Haniya's speech last night said alot about the situation and I'm glad he made things clear.

I was talking about Phalestenians in general not hamas in particular ......

 

 

It was clear they were never given a chance ,,, cuno qabatayn and they cut all the aid ,,, they even wanted to create a civil war among the phalestinians ,,,,, people resisted to all that and they've proven their stance and support to Hamas ,,,,,, all western policies failed against Hamas and now they want to bring Abbas back but by force this time ,,,,,

[Sharmarkee]

Originally posted by Legend of Zu:

 

Hamas will refuse the bait and then take all the unexpected routes; more like follow the Iranian Model...it will be very interesting

Israeli-led group (USA, and so-called Arab moderates) with Abu Mazan, are about to meet in Sharmal-sheekh, thinking about ways to make west bank as a green zone, pour all aids, money, weapons and benefits, and totally isolate and starve the hamas controlled Gaza. Even the Egyptian interior minister said: Isreal cannot tolerate an Islamic state on its door(such a loser talking nonsense).

 

Iran comes to the scene, it knows the Zionist-Neocon, are about to attack any minute, it cannot wait when USA forces encircled, and bases are every where, Iran knows the inevitability of the matter, its appealing and making ready its hitting post - Syria, Hezbollah, Hamas, and other gulf shi'as population to their aid when it comes.

 

It's sad the world is dancing with Israli's tone.

[N.O.R.F]

Originally posted by Jacaylbaro:

quote:Originally posted by Northerner:

^^Not sure what JB is basing his judgments on but he thinks Hamas were actually given a chance to rule.

 

News for JB, Hamas were never given a chance to 'rule' from day one. From economic embargoes to security.

 

Haniya's speech last night said alot about the situation and I'm glad he made things clear.

I was talking about Phalestenians in general not hamas in particular ......

 

 

It was clear they were never given a chance ,,, cuno qabatayn and they cut all the aid ,,, they even wanted to create a civil war among the phalestinians ,,,,, people resisted to all that and they've proven their stance and support to Hamas ,,,,,, all western policies failed against Hamas and now they want to bring Abbas back but by force this time ,,,,,

Not you niyow. The other JB. The one with blond hair, sunglasses, big chest and a tiny waist - Johnny Bravo

[Jacaylbaro]

loooool ,,,,,

 

 

JB yada ha la kala duwo

[BiLaaL]

Originally posted by Castro:

What is the alternative to "Islamic bravery"? Secular submission to the west? Clan collaboration with the occupiers? Do Castro and Chavez also have an Islamic bravery fever? What happened to Abbas' Islamic bravery? Washed away with too much money in a Swiss account? Give me a break saaxib. If the Palestinian people had any love for Fatah they would not have voted for Hamas. They wanted change and they naively thought they got it. Instead, they suffered a crushing economic embargo militarily enforced by the dabodhilif in Fatah from within and Israeli might from without. Sound familiar? As a Somali, you ought to at least know there's nothing worse than your own kind selling you out.

Nicely put.