The New Saviour: Federalism- Or is it?

[General Duke]

Mobb Deep,

 

Your points make less sense than the USC amnufactured map. To give all these points and only get 50% is a disgrace.

 

In this war everybody suffered. So we need to recognise the suffering of the people in Badoa, Kismayu, Galkacyu and the North as well as the inocent unarmed civilians of Mogadishu.

 

No one has divine right to be President no one.

No region under this formula can super seed anothers right. This is over.

 

I am also a Puntlander and Garacad is not in the heart but in the Southern tip of Puntland. The map is not accurate geographicaly as it was drawn by non professionals. How ever It is the principle we are talking about not some lines on a map.

 

Priciple of federalism makes sense to us Puntlanders, the south is learning fast. Federalism is not a panacea, its not a cure to all our ills.

 

As I have previously explained there are various reasons why Somaliland will join without any of your consessions.

 

...............

[AYOUB]

Smith can you explain the map of yours, who will rule where and how will it end the disputes withing and outside the states?

 

How will you devide the land, since even referundum will not be able to split empty quoters of land which everyone thinks belongs to them?

 

You are quick to predict what will happen to Somaliland which make me wonder what you would be saying if it was Somalilanders who were in Mbagathi and the rest of were Somalis in relative tranquility. I think Puntuland's limitations are facts you are all starting to deal with. Somaliland's achievements look easy on paper, but only when you have the talents, beliefs and ethics of its people is it possible to copy. 'Somaliland will fail' has the same ring to it as SNM will never get rid of Siad. Don't judge others by your standards and limitations. SSDF is not SNM and Puntland is certainly no Somaliland.

 

I like your 'no one has the devine right to be president' yell. Well, why don't you explain to me what Abdillahi Yusuf is to the Somalilanders who you wish they joined 'Puntlad Administration'?

 

Any students of History knows the establishment of monarchs in Arab countries started with silly little maps like the one you are posting and reposting. I can already see where you want King Caydiid's 2nd to be, but i am sure he has bigger things in his mind than that.

 

I know it has been a long time but i think you are getting desperate. I know the Puntu cow is not producing enough milk for the family, but every farmer down south is wiser and stronger this time to let you milk theirs.

 

Somaliland has never had it so good, why on earth would we want to risk it all when we know and have the scars to remind us what could happened. I am happy with what i've got at the moment and building on it. The 14 th 'peace talk' agreeing to talk to Somaliland is progress but talk is cheap. If thats all they can come with then this 'Puntu pie' map yours is a nonstarter. Rather than you questioning what rights do these individuals have to make major constitutional changes in foreign soil, am amazed you even try to sell to the SOL masses.Federal idea might be new to some but i discarded it ages ago and i think its not worth giving up what we have achieved so far for it.

 

I hope Somalia sorts itself out, soon but i don't think Kenya and other foreign governments involvolved will be for the interest of Somalis. Looking forward to your reply even though it is hard at to look at the map with a straight face.

[General Duke]

Ayoub Shiekh brother,

 

I will try to be as simple as I can be

 

The map is not mine, is a theoretical map it shows the Somali territories as they could be under a federal formula. I did not create this map and as MOBB DEEP stated before nor did Puntland.

 

 

No body is trying to divide land, land is not the issue the issue is identity, Somaliweyn, centralist, federalist etc.

 

I don’t get the babble which you are trying to put forward as arguments, let me give you an overview.

 

With regards to the states

 

Puntland as you know is controlled from Garowe and has total control of the regions which it claims. It a player in the formation of federal states.

 

Badoa has an embryonic administration that is the RRA, they have fractured lately but federalism is supported by 100% of the people of the region to have a full administration and self rule for the people of that area, it’s earmarked as ASAL on the map.

 

That leaves two further states to be created in the south, Jubaland and the central region. My dear friend Jowhar (central region)has an administration which is united with hiiraan and Beledweyn the respective leaders there Colonel Qalad and Mohamed Dhere have both supported the creation of a state which will be joined by Galgadud and southern Mudug. This is fact and you can check countless news articles that will prove this.

 

The capital will be a meeting place between the 4 states, when this is done. Somaliland will be approached and then negotiated with. There shall be a two state dialogue between Somaliland and Puntland. And then further talks should be done by the federal government and authorities in Somaliland. Somaliland as it is can be incorporated into the union. President Kahin will become Governor Kahin etc, you can even keep the flag.

 

The agreement in Mgathi has been that all parties have signed to the establishment of a body that will oversee the creation of the states, this friend is another fact.

 

The ingredients are there, but there was a need for a catalyst to kick start the experiment and that has been the meeting which is being supported by the whole international community. AU, EU and the security council of the UN all support this conference unlike the previous 13 meetings.

 

I quote you

 

“I like your 'no one has the devine right to be president' yell. Well, why don't you explain to me what Abdillahi Yusuf is to the Somalilanders who you wish they joined 'Puntlad Administration'?”

What does that mean? What has Abdullahi Yusuf got to do with this argument?

 

Another cheap shot

 

“I know it has been a long time but i think you are getting desperate. I know the Puntu cow is not producing enough milk for the family, but every farmer down south is wiser and stronger this time to let you milk theirs.”

 

How are we going to milk other peoples cows if the proposition is that they have full rights and control over their cows?

 

Leave that arguments to a beginner, Puntland and I repeat needs not control an inch of Somalia other than theirs. Brother Puntland is more than 40% of Somalia with 800 mile coastline, we got too much land and way too many cows to handle.

 

I remember General Mohamed Abshir Muse’s observation that this civil war was a blessing in disguise for the North East.

 

We got HADRAWE roaming south Somalia and various other Somalilanders in Nairobi, but of course this doesn’t count. This exodus will expand when the new republic is formed that is another SNWestern guarantee.

 

As if a veteran diplomat, you conclude

 

”I hope Somalia sorts itself out, soon but i don't think Kenya and other foreign governments involvolved will be for the interest of Somalis. Looking forward to your reply even though it is hard at to look at the map with a straight face.”

 

I think that Ethiopia, Djabouti and Kenya on the same platform together with all their different interest in Somalia is progress in itself. Kenya’s new president is interested like the previous one in their place in history.

 

Again we need real arguments and not the usual SNM is this and Somaliland is so rich, you call that debating?

 

You make me laugh "King Aydeed" LOL what does that mean? so complex is your art.

 

Stop avoiding the real question, how will the secessionist in Somaliland survive when this government is formed?

[JUXAA]

Mr. Odoweyne,

At last we have a Somali Lander who make sense and debate in civilized and clear manner although I am in the union camp forever.

 

About Somaliland people being 100% for secessionism I a disagree. As Smith clearly pointed out there large tribes in Somaliland not up for breaking away. Most of the people in Awdhal except power hungry, sell-out Mr. Kahin and his likes do not see the real benefit for them to break away from the rest of Somalia and are on undue influence from their giant neighbour (North west and Togdheer). The other thing is that as you yourself clearly pointed out Somaliland do not have the control of all the original territories what was once known as British Somaliland and today Puntland forces are roaming on the street of many towns officially come under Somaliland.

 

The other thing is Somaliland people are hearing the argument of one side. Where is Democracy you claim? Should let people like Mr.ghalib, Samatar, heard their voices only then we can talk about majority or minority votes.

 

Thanks

[Xalimo7]

As i have indicated for my earlier posts, won't you think it's time that the rest of Somaliweyn,join Somaliland and let's make Hargeisa the capital city of Somaliland. And i have no problem renaming the country Somaliland.

After all that should have been the true name.

 

see you, am around

[Rokko]

SmithNwestern, There is a difference between your desires and the actual truth na'mean?

 

you are mixing things up bro.

 

Mobb_Deep

[Gediid]

I am a true soccer fan who not only watches the game but plays it to the fullest.I have been a member of a Somali team which I happen to be the only Somalilander.For the past so many years whenever a foreign sponsored "Peace Conference" starts in some foreign nation my teammates literally start breathing fire down my throat on how when they make peace in the South they will swallow Somaliland in a jiffy.But to their dismay each and every meeting ends in more bloodshed and suffering for my people in the South of which I am truly against.Now the same fire and venom which some "Somaliweyn Supporters" seem to have plenty of is repeating itself not knowing whether this current process will succeed or fail dismally like the previous ones.Xaalka meeshaa aad ku heysaan simply put waa Geedkaan jari doono,faaldhan ka qori doono, bicidkaan ku dili doono...............The rest I leave to your imaginations but please as Muslims we are taught to say INSHA ALLAH when discussing matters known only to Allah laakin think positive and Allah will help you in your endavour,think with venom in your heart and you only have yourselves to blame.

Peace

[AYOUB]

Smith

This map is not mine, is theoratical it shows the Somali territoies as they could be under a federal formula.

This sounds very different to '' Gediid, The map makes sense its just maybe you are colour blind LoL I POSTED IT and will repost it to my convinience because it is SENSE, it clearly marks where everyone is AT, right now.

 

Smith you and your map interupted one of the best debates that was going to take place in this forum between Sophist and Oodweyne. Most have seen the map in this very own forum and I like the others chose to ignore it. I see you that you are now trying to distant yourself from it, then why did have to spoil this debate by reposting that ill thought map that you can not even defend?

 

Smith quote

 

Again we need real arguments not the usual SNM this and Somaliland is rich, you call that debating?

I think that was Libaax ST was politely tryng to say to but was it you Mr Smith who joined this debate with these words '...why should Somaliland be more important than ASAL or Juba.....heck i doubt that in ten years Somaliland would have as much money as Juba.'

 

Puntlander what's Somaliland's or Juba's money got to do with you? Is this what the 'somaliweyn patriots' are all missing and after? If you want to spice things up, don't complain when things get too spicy for you.

 

I suggest we clear the ground for Sophist and Oodweyne to continue their educational debate. Whereas most of the 'patriots' have gone underground or in limbo somewhere between Arta and Mbagathi you are trying to sell something you can hardly explain let alone defend. I just need someone to explain why federalism could not be done with the original provincial boundries because i believe boundries based on clans territories lead to clan leaders to be the leaders which leads to monarchy.

 

Smith

 

how will secessionist in Somaliland survive when government is formed

The same way we survived Siad's givernment, the burden is on you to present something that challenges Somaliland

 

Since we know President Riyaale will be Governor Riyaale do mind telling are the leaders of the 4 other states going to be and how? You can reply on a new topic if you don't mind leaving this one to Sophist and Ooodweyne

[General Duke]

Mobb Deep,

 

Bro I think you don’t get the gist of the matter, there are emerging states, and there is a peace treaty which aims to strengthen theses states. It is supported by the whole international community. All the heavy hitters are there, in one roof and I think there is only abut two or three weeks left. This is not my desire it’s the truth. All I was conveying was that as things stand those in federalist camp are on the winning side. Those mixing their desire for the status quo to remain and ignore facts are the ones who should be questioned.

 

Ayub Shiekh,

 

I like the fact that you call on the true patriots to intervene as your knowledge of current affairs is lacking, why not call upon more informed people such as Oodweyn to give a meatier answer to how the secessionist would survive in this new reality?

 

I quote,

 

“The same way we survived Siad's givernment, the burden is on you to present something that challenges Somaliland”

 

Again we are dealing within the realms of the unknown, because you haven’t got the faintest idea on how you the secessionists are going to survive. This is not lets keep bashing Siyad Barre its about identity no one is going to invade or imprison people, its about giving people a choice an alternative.

[guraad]

Smith , thanks for the map even tho` i believe that bigger part of snagg including yelkapo should be part of puntland .