On Marriage

[winnie]

Im surprised there arent more threads on this subject.

 

Sheikh Nur, I have some questions regarding marriage that I would love for you to shed some light on, and insha Allah others will learn from it as well.

 

The questions are more sister oriented and are about the steps leading to marriage, in particular for those whose parents cannot or will not take an active role.

 

At what point is a sister supposed to stop considering other brothers?

More specifically, suppose a sister has a number of suitors, who have not formally proposed but have made it clear that they want to communicate for the goal of marriage, is it permissible to communicate with them all?

 

 

How big of a deal is financial stability?

 

How big of a deal is cultural compatibility?

 

On the sisters approaching a brother, is there ever a situation where a sister should not follow Khadija's steps regarding this?

 

How involved do the male gardians HAVE to be?

Ill be more specific: if they are made aware their daughter/sister is considering x brother, is there anything they HAVE to do?

How does one get the male gardians involved, if/when (due to ignorance) they dont see it necessary?

is communicating via msn, instant messaging, or other similar methods permissible?

 

For brothers who are not financially prepared, is it fitnah for them to be proposed to, whilst they are not considering marriage? or worried about finances (like have to take care of a parent, paying school, debt etc)?

[Nur]

Shaken n Deterred sis

 

 

Let me attempt answer your questions.

 

Bismillah, wa bihi nastaciin, wa salla Allahumma calaa Sayyidinaa Muxammadin wa calaa Aalihi wa saxbih wa sallim.

 

You ask:

 

"At what point is a sister supposed to stop considering other brothers?

 

 

Answer:

 

To talk to more than one brother at the same time is not Sunnah-Friendly, The Messenger of Allah SAWS instructed that Muslim men should never seek marriage of a woman who is considering a proposal from another. Halimos should not be auctioned for the best bidder, a single suitor must be given the opportunity at any given time, its called Khutbah.

 

Western Halimos often talk to several brothers at the same time, while the Faraaxs to are doing the same thing, this practice is wrong, a Muslim man or a woman with an open file, must not open another until the first is closed.

 

 

You ask.

 

"How big of a deal is financial stability?"

 

Answer:

 

Financial Stability is a modern word, the Islamic-Friendly word for your intended question is Financial Ability, not Stability, and there is a big difference between the two terms.

 

Stability signifies that the brother works for a blue chip company with six figure sallary. a house a boat and a weekend retreat in Florida Everglades. The problem with Stability is that it makes some brothers and sisters Dunyaholics, its dangerous for the upkeeping of faith.

 

Ability on the other hand is simple, the Faarax has a decent place to call home, enough income to pay the bills and of course ability to withstand the family requirements including the mood change of our Halimos, he must be a docking, not a rocking.

 

 

You ask:

 

"How big of a deal is cultural compatibility?"

 

Answer:

 

 

Its a big deal indeed. Marriage introduces many trials and incompatibilities of its own, adding cultural diversity, its one more hurdle that can be overcome if there is an extra effort from both parties. The problem is that when things go wrong between a cultural diverse couple, they immediately seek counsel from their respective cultural families whose advice is almost always negative, its difficult to say the least, the risks outweigh the benefits but it can be worked out.

 

 

You ask:

 

"On the sisters approaching a brother, is there ever a situation where a sister should not follow Khadija's steps regarding this? "

 

Answer:

 

 

Its very noble indeed, personally, I have the highest respect for a dignified woman who admires a man and sends him a proposal message, subtly or overtly. Many successful marriages have started that way and continue to prosper.

 

Men ( mostly) are Visual creatures, their first attraction is the looks, which fades with time, while woman are attracted to a man with her mind, and heart, which endure. That is why Halimos worry about the Faarxs Financial "Stability" and when he speaks and makes good sense and judgements, she falls for him with her heart.

 

So, eNuri and Company strongly recommend that a Halimo should not wait her Faarax prince to come on a late Model ( 2009) Camel to oprpose, she should cut to the chase and find her Calaf her own Arawelo way! ( to make the farax ask for her )

 

 

If a Faarax is not financial able, still a student or making less dollars in an hour than there are hours in the day, but she is financially well to do, its very noble for the Halimo to propose, provided that his ego is not the size of Kilimanjaro. If his ego is that big, that is worrisome anyway.

 

 

You Ask:

 

 

"How involved do the male gardians HAVE to be?"

Answer:

 

Marriage is a lifelong commitment, not a passing fad, thus, in our faith, family involvement from the beginning is the best.

 

However. living in the west has its own RealFiqh* ( as RealPolitik).

 

The answer to this question is variable, it all depends on the current place or situation of the Sister. This answer if for Halimos residing in the west.

 

If a sister is infected by the love bug with a Farax at School, or at work, where they are together everyday, a fact of life in the west, she should immeidately communicate this trauma to her closest relatives with wisdom, I mean, those who understan RealFiqh.

 

Some parents live a world apart (in their mindset) with thier kids in the west, they want to live in the west and apply Islam as in a Muslim country. This confusion can pave the way for Haran relationships.

 

My advice is that a sister should always keep her eyes and mind open for good Faaraxs, she should be wise enough to know him well before inviting him for dinner with the family, and as in Somalia's folklore, she should test his responsibility, commitment and ethics before involving family.

 

 

Nur

 

* RealFiqh means Fiqhul Waaqic. Here is a scenario; A Halimo in Highschool falls in love with a Faarax, she asks sher parents if she can marry him, parents think at only 17, she is too young, college to them is more important than her marriage. At this stage, the young Halimo runs away with young Faarax to another town, and ask the imam to marry them, the Imam calls the parents who are angry, and refuse to grant permission, the Imam, applies Real-Fiqh and performs marriage against the parents wish.

[winnie]

To talk to more than one brother at the same time is not Sunnah-Friendly, The Messenger of Allah SAWS instructed that Muslim men should never seek marriage of a woman who is considering a proposal from another. Halimos should not be auctioned for the best bidder, a single suitor must be given the opportunity at any given time, its called Khutbah.

 

Western Halimos often talk to several brothers at the same time, while the Faraaxs to are doing the same thing, this practice is wrong, a Muslim man or a woman with an open file, must not open another until the first is closed.

 

just to clarify, because I have heard slightly conflicting information, as soon as one is considering an individual bro/sis, even without an official proposal, the correct adhab is to not consider others?

 

 

So, eNuri and Company strongly recommend that a Halimo should not wait her Faarax prince to come on a late Model ( 2009) Camel to oprpose, she should cut to the chase and find her Calaf her own Arawelo way! ( to make the farax ask for her

 

i dont understand your last bit, are you saying she should find a way to make him ask? im going to assume that means make her interest known, which would prompt him to go to the parents, is that right?

 

If a Faarax is not financial able, still a student or making less dollars in an hour than there are hours in the day, but she is financially well to do, its very noble for the Halimo to propose, provided that his ego is not the size of Kilimanjaro. If his ego is that big, that is worrisome anyway.

 

so what if both parties are not financially able?

is it best to forego such a proposal?

[Nur]

Shaken n Deterred

 

Yes, you are right, that is the correct Adaab, even if a Faarax is talking to a Halimo without making his intentions clear, at first its ethical ( Sunnah compliant) that the Halimo wait out until he offcially proposes before considering another Faarax ( but Halimo must also filter out time-wasters from real suitors).

 

 

Yes again, I meant that she should send a strong signal that she is interested which will invite the Faarax to propose to her folks.

 

If both parties are not financially able, then best thing to do is to focus on the preparations for marriage financially, and that does not rule out that the Faarax proposes as a Khateeb, which will make his intentions and hers clear, family will decide when they can get married depending on their financially readiness.

 

 

Nur

[winnie]

on istikhara

 

some people view this as a passive way of dealing with issues, and others as a finale to their decision making, what is the correct view?

 

for example, on proposing to farax.

xalimo is relatively confident that farax would respond well, however farax is completely clueless because both abide by islamic code of conduct (little to no mixing)...

some people say farax's cluelessness is a protection from Allah, citing the famous ayat which tells us we may like something but Allah may knows it is not good for us.

 

so, how much is dependant on tawakkul, and how much is dependant on our actions?

what if one follows up with actions and is met with further obstacles? is that then a sign, or just part of life's tests?

[Nur]

Istikhaara means seeking Allah's intervention to direct us to the right decision when confronted with more than an option. A decicion is what we make when we have options, without options there is no decision.

 

To make a sound decision, we first do our part, seek counsel ( Istishaara) from those we trust their judgements, afterwards we seek Allah to intervene when we pray Istikhaara.

 

 

If after counselling ( Istishaara), we feel comfortable with an option, we pray Istikhaara, if we are still comfortable, we go ahead with the option.

 

There are no signs that will tell you that the Istikhaara is pointing "that way". Istikhaara works when events turn toward an option despite what you like or not.

 

 

Tawakkul is the final stage after istishaara, Istikhaara, and after doing your due diligence, you go ahead with the option you think is OK, and from here events will lead you toward what is right as you have made Tawakkul.

 

If after tawakul you find more obstacles, that does not signal that you withdraw, its just a normal development, no pain, no gain! The result of istikhaara and Tawakul are not seen immediately, but at the end, so its advisable that you shouldnt change your mind marrying a Faarax if a relative causes problem, or if he is late for calling, or you had a bad headache the day he called, or even a bad dream, as it can be from Satan.

 

 

Nur

[Abu-Salman]

You ask:

 

"How big of a deal is cultural compatibility?"

 

Answer:

 

 

Its a big deal indeed. Marriage introduces many trials and incompatibilities of its own, adding cultural diversity, its one more hurdle that can be overcome if there is an extra effort from both parties. The problem is that when things go wrong between a cultural diverse couple, they immediately seek counsel from their respective cultural families whose advice is almost always negative, its difficult to say the least, the risks outweigh the benefits but it can be worked out.

Jazakumullah khayran,

 

Concerning the cultural compatibilty issue, again this is a relative concept from what I've witnessed among our community:

 

While a Faraax from the same clan or sub-sub-clan is considered "compatible" as can be (even if they grew up in different countries), this suddenly becomes an issue when the only difference among the potential partners could be in terms of clans geography such as South or North (granted this could have practical hurdles such as distance between the two larger families).

 

Of course, cultural differences may add to trials but this is to be considered alongside Shariah prescriptions, not least the potential partners levels of Eemaan (similarity in terms of socio-economic background or physical attractiveness is also desirable from a Shariah point of view).

 

While inter-racial marriages may face that cultural gap, is "cultural compatibility" still relevant among Somalis, in the case of let's say Buuxo from Borama and Bashir from Baardheere?

[Malika]

^It is still relevant to some,and I believe its not about the cultural compatibility,its more like the ex compatibility stems from the prejudice,and view point of our tribalism mentality.

[winnie]

okay

[Malika]

^I believe common sense would apply here sis,there would be no man waiting around while your pursuing another man.

 

One doesn't need a male guardian to sift through the suitors, if one knows what they are seeking and whom their are seeking. One can always involve the local immam. But being Somali,I doubt there would be shortage of cousins, if brothers or father aren't available to help in this matter.

 

I believe the sunnah is in place to help avoid confusion. Its near to impossible to juggle suitors,your bound to get confused and end up making a wrong decisions.

[Sir-Qalbi-Adeyg]

Marriage is just a trap especially in the west, a way for a man to loose his financial and social freedoms and be tied to one woman. I really think the shia way of 'temporary marriage' is more appealing especially for those of us living in the west. But how many women would agree to it?

[Nur]

Protocol bro.

 

Here is a saying that you suports your fears:

 

Marriage: When a Faarax loses his Bachellors and a Halimo gets her Masters!

 

On Mutca marriage, besides its assured ban, a rule of thumb is "would you consider to a relative of yours"?

 

Nur

[Sir-Qalbi-Adeyg]

Originally posted by Nur:

Protocol bro.

 

Here is a saying that you suports your fears:

 

Marriage: When a Faarax loses his Bachellors and a Halimo gets her Masters!

 

On Mutca marriage, besides its assured ban, a rule of thumb is "would you consider to a relative of yours"?

 

Nur

No I wouldn't it, but I see the practicalities of temporary marriage nonetheless.

[Haneefah]

Originally posted by Nur:

"How big of a deal is cultural compatibility?"

 

Answer:

 

 

Its a big deal indeed. Marriage introduces many trials and incompatibilities of its own, adding cultural diversity, its one more hurdle that can be overcome if there is an extra effort from both parties. The problem is that when things go wrong between a cultural diverse couple, they immediately seek counsel from their respective cultural families whose advice is almost always negative, its difficult to say the least, the risks outweigh the benefits but it can be worked out.

A very close friend of mine who happens to be a non-Somali was reading your answers on this topic when she raised my attention to this particular part upon where she stumbled a bit; and I agreed with her on this.

 

I think we all have our own preferences, and there's absolutely no problem with 'sticking with your own' type of mentality if you so choose. However, when you are in a position where your opinions are expected to be Islamically informed, one must be particularly cautious about delicate issues such as this, especially, in terms of how they communicate 'actual' or 'observed' risks (rather than perceived ones). When you state that the risk outweighs the benefit in this matter, then one is obliged to ask, how? What are you basing that opinion on? What type of indicators can you meausure in such a marriage to infer that the risks actually 'outweigh' the benefits - I apologize for perhaps over-emphasising this point of yours though you did mention that it could be worked out at the end, but it really doesn't sit very well with me - it's a sweeping statement.

 

I think that it is very crucial for us to have a realistic understanding of what some of the practical issues that may arise in such marriages may be, but at the same token, we must not allow biased cultural presuppositions, and unsubstantiated fear and prejudice, to deter us from making logical and Islamically informed decisions. I, along with many family members and friends, am an avid supporter of breaking cultural/ethnic silos that we so comfortably confine ourselves to - unless we collectively promote this, how can we achieve the prophetic model?

[Haneefah]

Originally posted by Abu-Salman:

While inter-racial marriages may face that cultural gap, is "cultural compatibility" still relevant among Somalis, in the case of let's say Buuxo from Borama and Bashir from Baardheere?

Heh. I beg to completely differ on the notion of the existence of cultural diversity among Somalis to begin with; unfortunately, we are living in times where Somalis are viewing everything from a clannist/regionalist prism which sadly leads them to see differences that are unfounded. In a homogeneous society like ours, with one language, religion, and ethinicity, I am unable to comprehend how we all of a sudden acquired cultural differences along regional boundaries. How is the so called 'Northerner' culturally distict from the so called 'Southerner'? How are social values, cultural customs and norms different in one region from its neighbouring one? Mind you, this is not to deny the existence of an urban vs rural effect, or different life styles among the people as a result of environmental/socioeconomic factors; but I am opposed to the notion of this being attributable to clan/regional differences.

 

We are suffering from socially constructed myths that are perpetuating belief in these perceived differences, particulary in the post-war period; these beliefs achieve nothing but to further the division and enmity between us. Somali hal dhaqan umbaa mideeya si kasta ooy isku kala saaraan.