Infantile happiness—The tale of Riyale’s visit to London.

[Warmoog]

Originally posted by Mobb_Deep:

I hope sista Yasmine reads your comment and responds to it na'mean. Abviously there are some logical flaws and inconsistencies in her innocent argument.

 

we wait for her rebuttal na'mean.

Mobb, if you see logical flaws and inconsistencies in my posts then I suggest you point them out and explain your rationale for doing so. It's easy to claim another’s reasoning is flawed, but unless you’re willing to systematically challenge those fallacies and counter them with logical arguments of your own - your claims won’t hold any weight.

 

Salaama.

[Gediid]

Here's the same article copied from Somaliweyn.com.I heard that website islamaha iyo odayasha pensionka qaada ayaa maalintii waqtiga ku lumiya.......This is what we call OBSESSION inta kale been.......

 

 

Infantile happiness—The tale of Riyale’s visit to London.

 

The festive smiles descended those who were demonstrating on the 17th of March; most seemed as though they expected this to be the D Day; the day they will make their mark on the world stage. The “state visit” as some dubbed it was indeed reduced something of a second rate musician paying visit to his meagre fans in the House of Commons. If such a visit was nearly to be anything “semi-official” (as many supporters would like us to believe) then it would indeed be inapt for the ministers concerned not to show up for symbolic photo shoots with Mr Riyaale; perhaps Mr Benn and Mr Straw were occupied with more noteworthy matters—I was told the Honourable Gentleman Mr Benn: the Secretary State of overseas development (or some such) was off to Wilshire hunting; whereas Mr Straw attended his Oxonian son’s birthday at that exclusive restaurant the Ivy. Surely the delights of seeing an “exotic” Head of State would have spared them from such trivial enjoyment of hunting and good food. With assurance they would indeed spare time to see him if they regarded Mr Riyaale any such but truth of the matter is that such regard has never been thought of my fellow countryman Mr Riyale who was indeed travelling with Somali passport—the ironic politicking of our fellow Hargeisa politicians is staggering to say the least- where some of his colleagues were in hold of foreign passports ranging from Dannish to American; some would undoubtedly say this is an international government.

 

Triviality aside, to add an insult to injury our fellow Somaliland (SL) supports would like us to belief that the inconsequential backbench MPs whose diaries had been empty for donkeys of years are men who would deliver them to glory. What a pity. The gentlemen of Banbury and Hardgate, Clydebank Mr Tony Baldry and Tony Worthington respectively. The first having dubious personality of which one can safely say is ominous than that of his party colleague the disgraced Lord Archer (well admired writer and socialite networker; he should have stuck with what he knows best). The other not so shady but indeed gloom had beset him since he was demoted from his last post Minster of Ireland—where he did a very poor job. When I last spoke to him weeks ago, he struck me like an old lion tired of peaceful life and hungry for an adventure. He pretends to be some sort of blue blood having acquired thick husky accent that reminds you of Boris Johnson MP of Henley and editor of Telegraph but not as clever or as pure blooded as him. I was awestruck when he answered a question I have asked him. His response was one that oozed with self-assurance that artful man can detect it to be a false attire that men naked of self-confidence would wear. He assumed his most posh accent like I would run sheepishly; “Sir, I care the plight of Somaliland people because I happen to believe in liberty and political self-determination”. Of course as you can guess my question was ;What prompted him to go to Hargeisa only; why did he not visit Sool and Sanaag which of course the Hargeisa administration claims to be part of Somaliland.

 

After reading The Political Animal written by that self-assured man Mr Paxman of the BBC; I was equipped to deal with this self-haughtiness. My retort of course was one that lasted nearly half an hour; I shan’t bore you my dear reader to the exact sentences we exchanged. But my meagre trained mind was predisposed to unearth why these two men would indeed be much interested in “Somaliland”. The first man is known to be a clever merchant. He has his claws in many troubled countries in Africa. The chap is just trying to get on the game as it were. Where the other less insidious chap is perhaps influenced by Trollope’s writings and those adventures which men like Richard Burton speak of (of course largely most of his writings on Somalis is at bare minimum a heresy). He is getting on, age is creeping in and the sunny environment he had seen in the Horn would spare him the pain of living dreary England (only if We Somalis valued our land as this chap has done; during our conversation, he spoke highly about the climate, the people and how terrible it is to loose all these to lawlessness); of course any man with their right mind would exchange cold with warm weather.

 

Anyhow, what has come of those celebratory smiles I first opened in my lines? I tell you my reader. They faded into the thin air never to be re-lived if the smilees can gain experience from this bitter incident. The organisers has so artlessly, unselfconsciously sold the demonstration that I even nearly believed them. I think they may even believed it themselves. The cavalier convention ended with Riyaale being given a shoddy platform to plead his inauspicious plea which of course fall into the satiated men who will just retell the stories in their luxuriant dinner parties—I wish those Somalis would know the life style of the middle-classes; this whole thing is a jolly well spend time to them; something they shall come up with to impress their friends when they sip Earl Grey tea in places like Savoy, Dorchester or other such coffee houses they congregate in.

 

What would have become of this lot-Somaliland (clan entity). It is like those infamously contemptible Somali “models” who conjure up fantastic tales to bemuse those foreigner; but worst still these lot don’t confine their fantasy on their old masters; but the fantasy had become unceasing they themselves become faithful to it—like those women who created the concept of love to beguile men; only later to become victims of it. It is sadly for them their arguments are absorbingly amusing for the objective reader. Anyone who have read about the report of the Commons would agree to it; where those two plead on behalf of their potential clients in front of their colleagues; they say these men had fought with us in wars against the Europeans. This is classic haughtiness and the utter superiority of the upper echelons of this society; they are far removed from reality to utter such politically archaic remarks. They heed none to political connotations so far as they feel happy about its delivery. “It is the delivery that matters not message” said their greatest of all. My Allah have been embarrassed to hear such arguments. Even worse the SL supporters give credence to this as some sort of gleaming historical significance; it ties them with the old masters said one while back while we enjoying-ly speculated about the arrival of Mr Riyale in London. This man who have significance erudition is so blinded he can not see how inane this whole thing is.

 

Wrapping up, the trip most SL supporters expected them to deliver that ships of honey are docked empty where the rust eats away in that threadbare place they all sipping what had left of fizzing drinks.

 

Oh Well, my Allah Keep us on the Straigh Path.

Shirwa Jama

Law Faculty

University of Cambridge, England.

 

Adam S Jama

asj27@cam.ac.uk

[LANDER]

Originally posted by 719:

 

Guraad Well said son....But..but.. but theres no Admin in somalia, i mean there is like 23 of them...so which admin are u reffering to.

 

On the other hand,How does

SL

want to separate when the former gvt is in shambles?, i mean by international rule,doesnt the 'greater' country have to sign a deal and let go the separatist nation?, its clear,simple rule....the country from which u wanna separate from has to sign a paper that says 'ok here we are letting you go'..well not in that simple language but something along the lines. Case in head:

ERITRIA

....Who is the LEGAL ADVISOR for SL?

 

 

Yasmine: You WWrite so well that i miss your message

You have Emotion in your messages-can you SKIM the emotion out?

Very Flawed comparison

 

-Eritrea never was an internationally recognize nation until 93 when they came to agreement with the Ethiopian government. In contrast Somaliland entered in a voluntary Union 4days after it gained its own international sovereignty. Minor detail you forgot to mention right? Eritrea once was a colony but never a recognized independant nation that is until 1993, meanwhile Somaliland was a legal entity recognized by over 30 other nations june26-july1st 1960.

 

 

Yasmine,

You do tend to write with a little too much emotion, this is not a contest of who can come up with snappy lines in order to belittle the opposition, if that was the case, Somalilanders would have lost long ago. Instead this is more about reasoning and realism, some traits the somaliweyn camp lack very much. We stay focused as Somalilanders with our reality on the ground, meanwhile our detractors preoccupy themselves with writing long and allustrious tales full of emotion, misinformation, simplistic views and little substance. If you try reasoning with these folks you will find yourself repeating the same points you've probably mentioned an infinite amount of times which is an obvious waste of time. But feel free to find out for yourself.

[Gabbal]

We stay focused as Somalilanders with our reality on the ground, meanwhile our detractors preoccupy themselves with writing

long and allustrious tales

full of emotion, misinformation, simplistic views and little substance.

O.K :rolleyes: Come down from your trip to Mars yet? :rolleyes:

[Paragon]

Originally by Kowneyn:

Jamaal-11:

 

Guraad's contention is

technically speaking wrong

at many levels and from

different angles

as well. For example, 'the state that was called the Somali Republic has

ceased to exist

...Second, this state was formed by

two independent states--Somaliland and Somalia

...third "Somalia" currently has no

administration

and we could keep going.

Kowneyn, I think I do follow your reasoning very clearly, but unfortunately, I must confess, I do defer in believing that guraad's contention is 'technically wrong'. My first reason, among others, is the fact that the contents brought forth by guraad arent entirely of his making; he merely built his arguement on Yasmine's one. So if he's is wrong, so will Yasmine's one. And if her's is wrong then both are wrong, since there is a similarity of analogy. Next point is, you mention the inexistence of Somalia's administration which is a fact that cannot be ingored or refuted. However, since existence seem to rely on recognition, and that Somalia is still internationally seen as a nation, can we not assert that Somaliland's lack of recognition puts her in the same place as Somalia, in terms of legitimacy?

 

Still talking of statehood, let me quote you (thats if you don't mind again). You said: "this state was formed by two independent states--Somaliland and Somalia...third "Somalia" currently has no administration....." Sxb, let me say that with the absence of a union, there is 'technically no such thing as somalia but South and North.

 

PS: have you nomads pondered this scenario: in the year of independence, Northerners joined Southerners. This time shouldn't it be the other way round? Southerners joining Northerners?

[Qudhac]

Why do people pre-occupy themselves with history and long far fetched ideas,

 

we should just work with reality on the ground, the reality is somaliland is separate country in every way now as say ethopia is a separate country to somalia par the recognition,

 

recognition does not make a country it merely acknowledges it, The only thing that is probaly holding back somaliland now compared to other countries like Ereteria among others is the lack of government to negotiate with on the other side,

 

most most countries have made it clear that if no administration is forth coming in somalia to negotiate with somaliland, then they will recognised somaliland on its own merits,

 

so its not wether somaliland gets recognition but how that process of recognition comes about is the only thing left.

[African]

Yasmine, I see that you got ganged on like a pack of hyenas that’s found a lonely prey. Neither logic nor reasoning works to express your views in this forum. The currency is emotions and every time you use rational for exchange of ideas you will have more emotions thrown at your face.

 

As you have noticed some of our male nomands resort to the oldest currency available “chauvinism”, when out smart by their female counterpart they sell their shares in the stock market and go for their reserves.

 

This was once said to me and sis Rahima by one of the respected nomads in this forum.

 

Originally posted by Samurai Warrior:

In a nutshell, Hablo – if you wish to turn the political forum into a kitchen table where the latest hair highlighters, nail polishers, trendy leotards, clips from gossip pages, infoMail discussions, and personalities rather than issues are being discussed, you are welcome to it.

 

Dialogue and discourse in any discipline are an apparatus of discussing issues of concern, and dissecting matters of interest. As gloves are out, amicability if at all attained is an improbable bonus. You obviously do seem to have a rather congenial definition of what it entails, thus it shall, as you wish, be a platform of discussion for the shoes colours, pms and non related subjects.

After this thread I didn’t debate in this forum and I only recently contributed to two threads and it’s my intention to make them the last. I really wanted to exchange ideas with my fellow Somali brothers whichever region they are from, but it seemed that hate consumes their daily lives and they cannot see beyond it.

 

Ameenah on the firing line more recently;

Originally posted by Sophist:

Aniga hade foodleyda lama aan tirsado. Foodley=ciyaal=child=childish.

Wishing you, Rahima, DnD, Ameenah and other sisters the best of luck in trying to reason with our brothers.

 

Good luck

 

"Few men have the natural strength to honour a friend's success without envy."Aeschylus

[Rokko]

African, care to label any from the other camp as "consumed by hate"?

 

Alla Cadaalada waxa la yidhaa wanaagsanaa. Cajiib

 

anyways,

 

Let me see if Mobb_Deep can summarize this thread for the nomads.

 

1. Sophist writes a comical article about Riyaale's visit to London. It is actually very funny.

 

2. Sister Yasmine attacks Sophist's personality and character as a whole. She gets into direct personal attacks with the dude na'mean.

 

3. Sophist comes back and tells Yasmine he won't disrespects her. coolest reply

 

4. I Ask Yasmine questions about SS&H

 

4. Sista Yasmine had some answers. It was just funny to many of us, specially from someone who claimed to be impartial na'mean. We left it at that na'mean.

 

African, If ya really want to address the issue of disrespect and "ganging up on others", have a look at "Somaliland Passport" thread and tell your fellow landers to stop attacking sisters na'mean.

 

 

peace

[African]

^^^ dear brother Mopp, let me see if we can have a dialogue without either of us reading what we want to read into on other’s writing.

 

The base of my above response was brothers v sisters and how some brothers resort to “male chauvinism” when they cannot argue on merit. The two quotes I referred to were the only two I read on the Politics forum where the brothers started to belittle the sisters as a WOMAN rather then debating their cases.

 

As to you drawing parable with what was said to Hibo I read the five pages and I did not see where she was belittled as a WOMAN. Yes she was ganged up on for holding a differing view but she was not short of nomads coming to her defense both from the female as well as from the male nomads.

 

I read this thread last week and wanted to come back to it when I had more time, hence why I gave my 2 cents now.

 

I will list the number of nomads that I had/have greatest respect for their posts and every time I saw their names on a thread I would first read theirs before others. Some of these nomads I hold a differing political stance, but had/have my greatest respect for arguing their case without belittling their opponents.

 

Sisters

Rahima

Yasmine

Ameenah

DnD

 

Brothers

Sophist

Baashi

Lander

Gadiid

 

Sadly some of them came off the list for the simple reason of belittling their sisters. There are others in the other forum who have my greatest respect.

 

Finally u said “African, care to label any from the other camp as "consumed by hate"?”. Mopp why did you interpret what I wrote as directed towards you or your camp ONLY when I wrote this;

 

I really wanted to exchange ideas with my fellow Somali brothers whichever region they are from, but it seemed that hate consumes their daily lives and they cannot see beyond it.

Whichever Somali region to me is anywhere between Djibouti-NFD and 5th Zone-Bari. Just because I believe in Somaliland independence does not stop me from caring about my Somali brothers/sisters everywhere (even you Mopp in London).

 

Hope I clarified your queries. :cool:

[African]

Pardon me bro I thought u were a Londoner, but still care about u even if ur in the land of "we rule the world".

[Dalni]

After reading the entire thread, I noticed a 'slight' contradiction. At the begining of this page, brother Lander wrote:

 

"Yasmine,You do tend to write with a little too much emotion, this is not a contest of who can come up with snappy lines in order to belittle the opposition, if that was the case, Somalilanders would have lost long ago. Instead this is more about reasoning and realism, some traits the somaliweyn camp lack very much. "

 

After Lander urged Yasmine to employ reason, rationality and logic in her arguements, sister African says:

 

"Yasmine, Neither logic nor reasoning works to express your views in this forum. The currency is emotions and every time you use rational for exchange of ideas you will have more emotions thrown at your face."

 

African, aren't you confusing Yasmine here. And it seems you have only read responses of your opponents, rather than both sides so that you could reach a reasonable conclusion. The reason why I think so is because you are contradicting what your fellow SLder (Lander) has written over the mix-up of emotion and reason in regard to Yasmine's responses. African, I think it is only fair to give opinions a fair judgement and consideration. But will phrases like; "After this thread I didn’t debate in this forum and I only recently contributed to two threads" merit you to say:

 

"The base of my above response was brothers v sisters and how some brothers resort to “male chauvinism” when they cannot argue on merit. The two quotes I referred to were the only two I read on the Politics forum where the brothers started to belittle the sisters as a WOMAN rather then debating their cases."

 

..and make expect people to believe that you " really wanted to exchange ideas with my fellow Somali brothers whichever region they are from, but it seemed that hate consumes their daily lives and they cannot see beyond it"?

 

The answer is reasonably no sister. "Sadly some of them came off the list for the simple reason of belittling their sisters". Yes its sad.

[Warmoog]

African,

Walaal, a lot of silly things get thrown around during the unfortunate charades political debates increasingly turn into these days. Some nomads can’t seem to depart too long with hostility and chauvinism is a special weapon they reserve for the sisters. I think they use it to try to hush the ladies up when all else fails but - in all honesty - it’ll take a lot more to hold the sisters down. Voices of reason often get hushed in the midst of loud chaotic nonsense, so if you’ve issued your official retirement from SOL politics then I look forward to seeing you in the other forums, insha’allah.

Originally posted by Mobb_Deep:

Sister Yasmine attacks Sophist's personality and character as a whole. She gets into direct personal attacks with the dude na'mean.

Mobb, need I remind you that my initial post was - as I’ve previously stated - a critique of Sophist’s writing… not an attack on his character? Need I also remind you that you’re the only one accusing me of having personally attacked the brother? In fact, neither he, nor the other nomads, nor the moderators have done so… which means you stand alone in your baseless accusations. You seem to have formed your own twisted interpretation of the meaning behind my words. I won’t burst your bubble… you’re more than welcome to maintain your grip on that distorted version, but do yourself a favour and stop forcing it upon others. It only reflects poorly on you.

Originally posted by Mobb_Deep:

Sista Yasmine had some answers. It was just funny to many of us, specially from someone who claimed to be impartial na'mean. We left it at that na'mean.

The only laughable thing in the two pages this thread spans is how you repeatedly refer to yourself in the third person… but moving on… Why I even acknowledged your questions to begin with now baffles me, as I see it was a complete waste of time. In fact, as I’m now defending myself against the fallacies conjured up by a wild imagination, responding to you once again seems like an utter waste of time…

 

Wadani,

Keen observations, but I think you missed something.

Nomad: “You have Emotion in your messages...”

Lander: “You do tend to write with a little too much emotion…”

Those two brothers will have to excuse me - I didn’t realize emotion was taboo here... But it should be noted that ‘having emotion in one’s writing’ (as stated by Nomad) and ‘writing with emotion’ (as pointed out by Lander) are not one and the same. If any contradiction is to be analyzed, I suggest we start with that.

 

Telling another their writing contains too much ‘emotion’ is vague and indicative of numerous underlying messages, but I think such statements tend to have highly hypocritical undertones. Expressing emotion is not something we can part with easily. We’re human, after all, so it makes little sense to accuse another of displaying something innately embedded in us all. If it’s not emotion that initially evokes nomads to click the “Post Reply” button, then what is? If anything, emotion is something people often go out of their way to express in writing... what other purpose do graemlins/emoticons serve? As I’ve said before, one’s writing is always open for critique here, but the basis of such critiques - I think - should be kept within reasonable limits. ‘Reasonable’ is, I suppose, open for interpretation but I personally wouldn’t go so far as to base my judgments on something as trivial as how much emotion another’s writing contains.

 

Salaama.

[Gabbal]

having emotion in one’s writing’ (as stated by Nomad) and ‘writing with emotion’ (as pointed out by Lander) are not one and the same. If any contradiction is to be analyzed, I suggest we start with that.

You're a tactian huh, Yasmine? Interesting, we might have a thing or two in common.

[Sophist]

Ameenah! my darling sister! glad you have taken my jolts as they were! just a kaftan. Mahadsanid! and your delivery at the meeting was cool -- I shall write the promised review on the genral section in the next couple days when I go back to my village.