MOVE THE CAPITAL FROM MOGADISHU?

[Jumatatu]

Farah...Sxb I have no difficulty in comprehending it, but I also notice that you either did not understand my stance or fear to delve into the matter for the sake of cancelling out the claims.

[Xoogsade]

Although JB excused himself from this thread, I would have told him that being nonsensically proud is not tribal but more like regional traits. You can find two individuals who are from the same grandfather but who lived in and grew up separately in different regions of somalia who espouse different views and beliefs about their tribe and what value it holds for them as individuals. The more extreme tribalist groups of people are usually people who grew up seeing only their close or distant cousins as neighbours and only interacted with others as a transient in a town or shared a tribal border which caused seasonal tribal wars anyway. By contrast to these groups, a civilized person who grew up in a cosmopolitan or in an urban setting where tribe isn't an issue is really cool and secure about who he is as a person and doesn't draw back for strength and dignity to who he is tribally as that is meaningless. In today's somalia, people with the first attitude are the dominant figures everywhere. They are even online doing what they did best back then under the acacia tree, be the tribal-man they were and keep the culture. Definitely, many civilized somalis whose world was turned upside down by others who put tribe first and foremost, RESENT and wish they never made contact with such difficult to deal with people, and that such groups were confined to their badiye so others could enjoy life without labels and constant obsession with who is who. As we know, even towns that were built as somali towns are now a disputed tribal territories. Waa straight Badiye culture in town that relentlessly seeks to put a tribal tag on everything that moves or inanimate. They even use ISLAM to make their unislamic obsession legal.

 

Soomaliya weligeed hagaagi meyso ilaa Qabiil la aaso oo qofkastoo Soomaaliya marka la weydiiyo ciduu yahay uu yiraahdo "Muslim". Before that becomes reality(which I think won't happen anytime soon), it is just who is stronger or weaker at any given time in Somalia, who makes smart alliances and who breaks the back of others first before theirs is broken. It will be an endless cycle of underminings through political and economic means if not an outright violent ways. Xarfaantii dhaqanka baadiyaha kusoo kortey aa maanta magaalada deggan meel walbana gacanta ku haayo. Can you imagine these tribally obsessed individuals and their foes who are the same mentally will accept any resolution if they are not getting the top benefit of everything just because the tribal pride or defeat your enemy attitude demands it?

 

Qabiil waa la dhaafi waayay ee halaga xaaxaabiyo.

 

 

PS: You can change someone if you are a changed person to begin with, so let everyone start with themselves before they even think about other people's faults. Ask yourself first if you pride yourself in being who you are tribewise, if that is a "YES" answer, you know the same sentiment is held by others. So what is the point? Khasaaro u joognimaa caado laga dhigtey(tribalism) oo lagu madax adag yahay. So let the saga continue.

[Jumatatu]

^^Nice point Xogsade sxb, though I suspect some of the die hard tribalist in here will come to the conclussion that you have seceded. As JB said sometime before one would want you to believe that the barber in Bosaso is better than the one in Km.4. I find that as the baseline of the arguments made in here by numerous Nomads...

[Baashi]

Ayaan darro that’s the first thing that comes out my mouth!

 

Juma and JJ, friends listen to me carefully. The looting question is not a ploy to discredit ur clan (I suspect that is the reason u r so defensive). Not at all! This discussion is about Mogadishu and by extension the reconciliation process. If we are to reconstitute Somali state, we have to deal with all outstanding issues. Power sharing scheme has been the heart of the Somali civil war. That question has been dealt with and Yeey has been accorded the honor of heading the state at this difficult time. He won fair and square!

 

Real estate (Mogadishu - Kismayo corridor) question is the heart of the current impasse. In this vain, you can’t go in circles! You cannot obscure the need to relinquish what’s been looted by justifying the current injustices because of the past injustices. The past injustices are on the table as well. You pick the timeline and bring forth all the grievances you might have with past governments. All Somalis have suffered one time or another under former regimes. No one is denying that. If you know properties confiscated by the government from its citizens by all means say so. However, one must be intelligent enough to distinguish systematic and institutionalized wrongdoings from vigilante clannish land grab. No one in his right mind can justify the “aryaa annaa xoreystay†claims. It is simply wrong. In all seriousness, this is a moral question.

 

I understand that looking this issue through the prism of tribalism (if the ill-gotten gains are reversed with presidency already gone to Inna Yeey) it is a blow to those who have sacrificed so much. The lost of lives, the destruction, and other countless ayaan darro, For what? In this vain, it is understandable for you to defend the thuggish looting in the name of tribalism.

 

Alla yahdiikum ikhwaani.

[xiinfaniin]

Originally posted by Baashi:

 

Alla yahdiikum ikhwaani.

Aamiin.

[Jumatatu]

Doqonta usha agteeda aya lagu dhufta ,hadey garan weydo ayada aya lagu dhufta

 

Bashi started his post with this statement :

Juma and JJ, friends listen to me carefully. The looting question is not a ploy to discredit ur clan (I suspect that is the reason u r so defensive). Not at all!

and ended it with following sentence :

it is understandable for you to defend the thuggish looting in the name of tribalism.

I would have debated with Bashi and argue that yes it was a ploy but I think he has done that for me already. Typical Bashi unaware of what he pens down.

Basho sxb I remember you said in this thread somewhere earlier, and I quote

We are at a point where Somali state is hopelessly in need of rescue. It's in this spirit that I want to engage with whoever is dignified enough to talk sense and face the lion squarely in the eye and say al right lets deal this for once.

. Here I thought here was a man who was willing to remorsefully to look at the situation and ponder for once how did it come about. Alas you have taken on a different path, a path of cay after cay, af-lagado after aflagado like a nin reer miyi ah oo geeli laga dhacey.

Sxb when you say

No one in his right mind can justify the “aryaa annaa xoreystay†claims.

. Ok look at this way then Bashi. What if the statement was ' 'war sooco awalba xoola aad xaran ku heshey ayey aheyd'. How will you approach this. And for the record looting whether systematic and institutionalized or either clanish oriented is still looting. It is not like as if one is legal and the other not.

Somalida waxay ku maahmaahda "Dheriga maxaa karka ka keena - kuleylka" . Hence this looting and unfortunate situation did not come out of the blue and you cannot dismiss that fact that the catalysty to it was previous injustices Bashi. Now when you are prepared to my frined to talk about as you said 'face the lion' then I will be more than willing in aan kula falanqeyo...inta ka horeysa hadi aad rabtiid sidi in lagula gosgosto sxb wa kugu keliga.

[Baashi]

War ileyn tanoo kale Show abwaanku waa runtii markuu lahaa:

 

Cuqdad iyo ruuxii ciil qabaa looma caal helo e,

Iyadaan cidiba daarin buu ciq iska siiyaaye,

Maxuu dameer cey igaga dhimi weyska ciyayaaye!

 

 

Let’s look at these two sentences: “Juma and JJ, friends listen to me carefully. The looting question is not a ploy to discredit ur clan (I suspect that is the reason u r so defensive). Not at all!†And “it is understandable for you to defend the thuggish looting in the name of tribalism.†are not contradictory in any shape or form. The first is self explanatory and clears the air for those who are willing to breath fresh oxygen. The later is consolation for those who defend the injustices in the name of clannism. One can't help but to understand why would someone defend the loot when one puts ur justification in the context of Somali political discourse. It is sad that you can’t comprehend simple posts as the one above. Should we switch to Somali and eliminate any language barrier that we might have?

 

On ur maahmaah of “doqonta hadalka waa loo dadaa†or as you put it agteeda usha lagu dhuftaaâ€, I say as I’ve said it before there is no need to hide anything. The SOL crowd deserves straight talk. So next time make no assumptions, just put it straight as u see it.

 

As to Ceyda, Xaasha sxb, afkeygu ma qabto hadalada qaar. Perhaps “Aryaa annaa xoreystay†is what u mistakenly took as an underhand dig. That’s unmanly in my book and I don’t do that. If I want to engage such exchanges, I could have delivered better bunches than that. That’s below the belt and it will dampen the spirit of the discussion. FYI the phrase is the answer given to the legal owners whose properties had been looted by thuggish looters. The accent is no way implies insults. That kinda thought is very disturbing to say the least. Where did I go wrong sxb?

 

As to the question of how the victim would have felt had the looter dismissed his hard won xalaal property as “ 'war sooco awalba xoola aad xaran ku heshey ayey aheyd'†I would say he would've been disappointed perhaps would've felt bitter or worst vow to not accept such arrogant and foolish remark. In return that would fuel the civil war and perhaps dim the hope that the reconstitution of Somali state is within reach. Interestingly enough the reason that almost half of Mogadishu residents who had fled during the civil war have gotten this kinda answer has something to do with tribalism noh?. For you to assume that because I share 38th great great grandfather with Siyad Barre and hence my property is illegal is very very telling. Here is where ayaan darro lies!

 

I give u one point and that is looting is a looting whether is done systematically by government or done randomly by vigilante clannish thugs. The difference between us is that I don’t defend the institionalized looting nor do I excuse the former regimes in any way, shape, or form. Because I have roots in Puntland, you seem to assume that I’m doing just that.

 

Perhaps what you don’t realize is that Abdiqasim and et al are in no position to point finger at others when it comes to former regimes and all the misdeeds they have committed. The spoils of the state have passed many hands. Bring on all the grievances on the table. We will talk over it and see what former officials have done in the name of the state. But make no mistake Xadiyo Miskiin has to get her house. She is entitled to get her hard won property back. I have hunch that Abdiqasim, Morgan, Mohamed Sheikh Osman, and et al properties will be affected.

 

War bal innoo sheeg dhibta dawladu geysatay aan arganee cidi ay gaarka ku tahay.

[Johnny B]

CALL IT " The return of the Muck"

 

It all started with Bashi´s first shot.

OLOL you are defending the indefensible sxb. You remined me the line and I’m paraphrasing it here he is sure a thug but our thug. For the sake of decency, don’t associate your politiking with the down rotten ideals of looting and the legions that do the deed.

After Juma shot it right between the eyes with his saga of the "jeble" lady in Galcaio

" Alla anigu tira badaniyaa ................ "

Bashi ( my Graad from now on) hijacked the thread for good and took the emotional high ground of

"Who can defend looting "? and shifted the position of his camp to"Las Qoray" .

That way "Xiin" got away unpunished with the misplaced Topic of MOGADISHU .

this is how he did it .

Forgot about those who are from Burtinle. What about dadkii qaxay ee ku barakacay dagaalkii ahliga. Mise xikamadii belada ahayd ee "aryaa anaa xoreystay" baad waxa dooneysaa inaad miis rag leeyahay oo muqaawiir iyo gar cas ku garameyso inaad la timaado oo aad la soo shir tagtid.

It has to be OLOL and his third eye that shed the light on Bashi´s new position .

OLOL went ..

Baashi, you are hiding behind perceptible veneer and with such haughtiness, you will never get my enticement here! I am not defending anyone at but trying to stimulate humility.

So furious that he´s been detected , Bashi goes ..

^Hide? why? and from whom?

We were examining the Mogadishu dilemma and there you veered to another line of inquiry.

not only thet he got furious, he even moved the camp to even personal higher ground

(Las Qoray must be a hilly place )

You must be thinking that the nomads who congregate here act as spokesperson of their respective clans. Not at all. I’m Baashi and I have strong views on the political events taking place back home. We can discuss it to the bones for all your heart’s content.

All this is going on and Juma is busy spoiling his new Awdelian gf with savila raw gifts at Bond Street .

watching the show with a 3D thing i tried to remind Bashi that he is not saying much but maneuvering wildly!

But i´ve been told ..

 

Wrong. Reading comprehension is in order sxb

I tried to remind Bashi that the "grabbed land , looted property " issue was NOT that solid ground as it´s been DONE b4 in the Somalia.

 

Next morning Bashi wakes up and starts with me AGAIAN

Wrong. Reading comprehension is in order sxb

this time with the strengthning adverb of 101, but contradicted himself right after that and praised me for beeing an excellent decoder of his riddle, but still fell short by not pointing out exactly which of the hills of Las Qoray had he his bunker.

I´d to react to Wind.Talker playing with the traffic lights .. Then steps Juma for the 2nd time and takes Bashi by the ear

Basho awoowe gocasho intey gari karta, ma waxan kaso bilowna 1990 iyo wixii ka dambeyay mise tan iyo inti xurnimada laqatey.

Houses have been looted, land and other properties likewise. But when did all start and when did it escalate?

Dear Juma make it concise , Bashi has been on the run for too long , pick you choice n let it swell .

• Give the Dog a good name !!
• Be a "Marriage illitrate" !!

[Baashi]

^ Another Ayaan darro!

 

Johnny, u r the come back kid! For real You have managed to summarize the thread with irrelevant snippets: Las Qoray and he said she said kinda biibato talk!!! What an incoherent blabber! Nitpicking, cut and paste misquotation won’t do sonny. Speak for urself Johnny n let Juma and OLOL speak for themselves. Why do I have the feeling that talking about looting and the looters bothers you.

 

What is your point? What is it that you wanna talk about? Do you feel I’m beating around the bush? If you do, just say that right out loud and articulate your feelings with intelligible posts. We’ll discuss it and hopefully we will clear all the misconceptions you seem to have.

 

Will come back 2morrow morning...ain't going away

[wind.talker]

Originally posted by Baashi:

What an incoherent blabber!

Maad ka daysid inanka? The first time he held a pen and a pad was after the liberation of 1991 - the liberation , I suppose, that has some SOL nomads gleefully believing in the process of xalaalization that has been taking place in parts of the occupied lands in recent years.

 

I look at today's predicament from a historical standpoint. These believers adhere to the school of thought that has overtly felt neglected by successive Somali governments since our independence. The liberation of Mogadishu, along with the forceful occupation of properties from their xalaal owners is seen as just compensation in their eyes. We were wronged, We deserve this - mentality.

 

And they scratch their heads consistently, wondering: why is it that the dust of Mogadishu started by the liberation war can't seem to settle?

 

I suppose I'll have to wait until lix-saac to get the answer.

[Jumatatu]

Originally posted by wind.talker:

I suppose I'll have to wait until

lix-saac

to get the answer

Alleylehe sidi nin careysan oo gurigi, xoolihi iyo oridi lo dabamareyay waad uu hadashey. Lakiin waxaad moogtahey cay wax maso celiso ee rag aya wax ka dhaceye orodo iska celi..hadey caqlii lix sac yihiin iyo hadi kaleba... .

[Gabbal]

What a discussion! :rolleyes:

[Johnny B]

Originally posted by Jumatatu:

quote:Originally posted by wind.talker:

I suppose I'll have to wait until

lix-saac

to get the answer

Alleylehe sidi nin careysan oo gurigi, xoolihi iyo oridi lo dabamareyay waad uu hadashey. Lakiin waxaad moogtahey cay wax maso celiso ee rag aya wax ka dhaceye orodo iska celi..hadey caqlii lix sac yihiin iyo hadi kaleba...

.

DITTO !!

[Rahima]

Please, don't justify USC military presence in the Jubba Valley - its tainted with the blood of the innocents the USC massacred over the years.

I don’t believe I did! I’m not sure which part of my statement had you think that, but rather I was questioning your justification of another militia group. As far as Kismaayo and Somalia as a whole is concerned, I have come to note one factor- the answers to questions and who is viewed as the enemy/rightful owners is determined by who you ask, likewise whose military presence is justifiable. As far as I’m concerned, military presence (in the Somali sense) anywhere in Somalia by any group, be it the USC in Kismaayo or Mudug itself is unjustifiable and wrong because in my opinion all these groups are based on evil and the backward mentality of tribalism. To me they are all the same, I do not favour one over the others, in fact I hope they all vanish off the face of the earth. Therefore no need to beg me on a matter which I am innocent of . If anything if i were wanting to see in your statements things that weren't there i could perhaps conclude and write "Please, don't justify XYZ military presence in the Jubba Valley - its tainted with the blood of the innocents the XYZ massacred over the years.". Replace the XYZ with any of the groups who are supposedly more deserving of been there militarily than the USC.

 

I said a USC military presence is unacceptable - which excludes the shacab because all Somalis should always feel free to live in any part of Somalia.

Yeah I got that part , but why (according to you) is it more justified to have Morgan (and his group- I don’t know their name) in Kismaayo than the USC? I mean like I said, are they not different sides of the same coin? You are entitled to your opinion, but on what grounds have you come to hold your opinion? Even if you believe that the USC committed more atrocities, are you saying that Morgan and co did not (I know you are not, just a rhetorical to get to a point)? Therefore if we agree that both Samatar and Rooble are wrongdoers, why should one be punished and not the other? Why should in your eyes one be exiled for his actions and the other not? I personally believe in punishing both and all the other boys who partook in the fight. If I exonerate through my opinions one, I am indirectly supporting him. I need to tell them both they are wrong and punish both- in that way I will be fair no? Secondly and probably most puzzling for me, how exactly do you determine who belongs to the USC? For example is Sh. Hassan Dahir Aweys part of the USC (although he is Al-itixaad)? I mean I’m not getting it really (and in that I say it with sincerity), how does one paint another as a member of a group? Is it qabiil based? Is it ideology based? Is it past-actions based? Likewise another question, the JVA, I see the name of Barre Hiraale been thrown around (which I have come to work out represents the “reer gedo†part of the equation), so who represents the “USC†part of the equation? And how did they come to hold this title (of USC)? Is it because they happen to share a tribe with Caydiid, Caato and co?

 

 

Sky,

 

Why am i not suprised at your response?

[Gabbal]

Yeah I got that part [smile] , but why (according to you) is it more justified to have Morgan (and his group- I don’t know their name) in Kismaayo than the USC?

Bless your ignorance (not in a bad way, mind you) Rahima

 

Is it past-actions based? Likewise another question, the JVA, I see the name of Barre Hiraale been thrown around (which I have come to work out represents the “reer gedo†part of the equation), so who represents the “USC†part of the equation?

The USC as a jabhad isn't represented sis. This Kismaayo problem started in the middle 90's when kingpin Morgan immidiately, without any provacation, simply ordered any who are of Gedo descent to leave the city. Simply got up one day and said "reer Gedo you aren't welcome anymore, goodbye", as if the Gedo jabhad, the SNF, wasn't the main reason he ascended to the top of Jubba politics.

 

Let's see the wake of events that had transpired as a result of that, without any of the hype or propaganda surrounding it.

 

Reer Gedo, to a large degree, are forced to leave the city and majority make their way to Gedo. However, to political and military elements representing Gedo and Galgadud, that does not do it for them. There were calls of revenge crying all over and the SNF decided to act. Gedo militias were organizing theirselve under Gen Ahmed Warsame, but the majority of the arsenal and military equipments had been taken to Western Galgadud in the early parts of the civil war after Gedo was secured. Barre Hiiraale and Gen Hashi Gaani (alaha ha u naxariisto) had taken the military installations to Galgadud in case the USC attacked there. However, the USC sub-clan that majority lives in Galgadud with reer Cabudwaq had already signed a peace deal with them. The Ugaases signed an agreement calling for peace and ending all conflicts.

 

When the call for arms against Morgan came, Barre Hiiraale who was in Cabudwaq decided to act. He wanted to come south to give aid to Ahmed Warsame in toppling Morgan. Barre Hiiraale banded up his largely unused military equipments and militia. However, the lands they would have to go through were all USC held lands, and they might loose their objective where they confronted somewhere in the maze of southern Somalia. The Ugaas of Cabudwaq at that time, Ugaas Siraaj Ugaas Hersi (alaha ha u naxaristo), thinking back to the peace deal asked the Ugaas of Guri-Ceel (who ecently passed away, alaha ha u naxariisto) in help in finding a route through the USC-held lands. The Ugaas of Guri-Ceel then told Barre Hiiraale he would send with him a dozen men led by Col Yusuf Mire Seeraar to "guide" them through the south. Meaning they would hold up the clan card if ever Barre Hiiraale and his camp were intercepted.

 

Barre Hiiraale came down peacfully, and with Gen Ahmed Warsame overpowered Gen Morgan. After they entered the city, Barre Hiiraale asked the men who scouted for him if they would like to remain, and they consented. Then the JVA was set up as a political entity that came as a result of business that included Abdiqasim and reer Gedo. That is all this fuss and complain about USC in Kismaayo sis.

 

It is much easier to admit defeat at the hands of a large force instead of a ...