MOVE THE CAPITAL FROM MOGADISHU?

[xiinfaniin]

Baashow, to store the equilibrium of the Somali story telling and perhaps allow some room for OLOLe’s youthful indiscretion let me throw this one:

 

Waxaa layiri gabar ugub ah oo xaamilo ah baa reerkooda fool lasoo aaday. Mar alla markay soo istaagatay baa nabarkii fooshu qabtay. Aabaheed iyo wiil walaalkeed ah keliya baa reerka jooga wax umuliso ahna meelaha kama dhawa. Odagii baa damcay inuu fooliyo sey labadii lugood bey isku qabsatay. Nagata, waa diiday. Adogii baa wiilkii wuxuu yiri war idinka isla ciyaari jirey oo aysan cawro kaa dadaneyne bal gabadha walaashaa ah fooli. Saa wiilkii baa damcay inuu soo usoo dhawaado, mase maxaa ii dhiibatey waaba kasii dartay oo labadii lugood isku qabsatay. Goor ay isku dhiman rabto baa nin waa qabi jirey oo ay kala tageen reerka soo booqday. Odagii oon hubin baa yiri war nin yahow qoftu waa isku dhiman rabtaa annagiina na diiday ee bal isku day.

Ninkii baa inta qoslay buu xaggeeda usoo dhaq-dhaqaaqay. Intaasun hadlin bay lugihii kala furtay sidaas baa iyadii iyo ilmahiiba ku bad-baadeen:

 

Xamar iyo dawladnimaduba armay inantii yihiin? Cali Mahdi iyo Cabdu-qaasimna ehelkii inanta yihiin?

[OLOL]

Baashi, you are hiding behind perceptible veneer and with such with such haughtiness, you will never get my enticement here! I am not defending anyone at but trying to stimulate humility. I could actually; with confidence say I am impartial to the Somali dilemma (for having minuscule Somali trace – though matrilineal lineage is kind mystifying and dominant)

- Why is Somaliland want to separate? Why there is so mistrust and apprehension of each other among southern clans? Because of such hypocrisy and blind support for unjust transgressions!

 

Keep on dreaming folks, for Somalis all over are now more aware of the deceitful villains propped up because of clan loyalties.

[Baashi]

^Hide? why? and from whom?

 

You are about 5% Somali (minuscule) yet you come across as more angrier than those who are 100% Somali! You say that u will never be persuaded yet you think u r stimulating humility! Are you being real? pretentious? perhaps nervous?

 

We were examining the Mogadishu dilemma and there you veered to another line of inquiry asking “Why is Somaliland want to separate? Why there is so mistrust and apprehension of each other among southern clans?†You seem to know all the answers here “Because of such hypocrisy and blind support for unjust transgressions!†hmm? This is the best line in your incoherence blabber there it is read it again “Somalis all over are now more aware of the deceitful villains propped up because of clan loyaltiesâ€

 

Get ur self together, take a deep breath and calm down. Ready?

 

Now, care to elaborate on that post. You must be thinking that the nomads who congregate here act as spokesperson of their respective clans. Not at all. I’m Baashi and I have strong views on the political events taking place back home. We can discuss it to the bones for all your heart’s content.

 

Now I understand that you are confusing the past transgressions to the present ones or even worse you are justifying the present ones because of the past deeds! Am I right? Let’s have meaningful discussion on the subject. Are you up to the challenge OLOL?

 

Xiin, war ninyahow waa sii fogaaneysaa maalinba maalinta ka danbeysaa. Ma waxaad leedahay bahda Xamar haatan joogtaa dawlidnimo macnaheeda ma yaqaanaan magaaladuna waa is umal raaceysaa jeer ninkii talin jiray uu soo laabto? Shidadaba waxa keenay waa hadalaas oo kale Ha kaa saarto hadde maahmaahdii reer barri baa meesha taala: “Adoo nabad u belawaara belooy kaalay lama yiraahdo; haday kuu timaadana lama booyo booweâ€! Reer hebel dabo bey leeyihiin iyo reer hebel turub baray iyo dawlidnimo ninkii maali jiray baa yaqaan sow waxa la isugu go’ay ma aha!

[Johnny B]

I really am stunned .. all this against Mogadishu

 

I can do nothing but pass my Hanky , 1st to Xiin

 

Abti ... you made me feel so empowered just becouse of my mere belonging to a certain Clan.

 

I´ve seen quite a few daydreamers but YOU ....

 

was it fight , fight, fight you said ?

 

If you were in his shoes what could you do abti?

 

What is it that you think he CAN but not doing ?

 

Bring Puntland militia to Nairobi ?

 

as they´ll NEVER cross North Galcaio green line:D

 

Abti .. you can´t have it both ways.

 

• keep weeping
• try talking

2nd to Bashi .......

 

Bashi , regardless your otherwise mucky conclusion , you seem to be saying NOTHING.

 

Time n again you keep telling yourself n those who listen to ya ,

"Kismayo n all those faratelli farmlands belong to Puntlanders"

 

BOTH you and Col YEY know that you(Puntlanders)

are in NO position to talk about the shape of Somalia´s ethnic map ,

reason beeing the following

 

Puntland is the payproduct of Somalia´s ethnic map readjustment , done by Mogadishu and gedo

[xiinfaniin]

Balancing the equilibrium, it was. Have I not said that, Baashi? Kaftan dhable uga har, saaxiib.

 

Now, when the likes of our Col Juma, who sought after the fertile land precisely to gain political dominance, brandishes and ostentatiously displays the loots of our pillaged cities and claims to be the sole owner of it (remember I am, he says, from Burtinle and as such committing a sham of grand proportion), don’t you think my allegory is quite analogous to that city’s political impasse?

[Jamster]

^^^^^Xiinfiniin; walee nin maskax miid dhigtey baad tahay. I like the above sheeko.Perhaps it might be; for we are prying that the survival of the mother and the kid.

[OLOL]

No Baashi, I will pass such challenge.

First of all, it attracts such killjoy clan fanatics like Xiin, Farah, Sky ,Duke and company and (perhaps.. even U , with your crafty mask!). You all have a provincial alignment. So no point of engaging with already biased folks.

 

secondly, it is exasperating and it has been done before and lastly, My "Soomaalinimo" will be questioned by your bigheaded ferocious nomads! So, I pass that Challenge! I could deal with mocking remarks- these are frantic gibe for your friends to boost their egos.

 

I got nothing against "puntlanders" per se, but I despise the warlord –President-Select Yeey and his nostalgic and hegemonic backward-looking policies. That has really touched some nerve here and that is why all the die-hard cheerleaders are so infuriated.

[Baashi]

^Precisely...to discuss these matters objectively requires some knowledge on the actuality on the ground. One can bash this and that all one wants but at the end of the day, the issues remain unaddressed. Abdullahi is the elected TFG president and I have no intention to defend him off all people from his own subjects. I’m interested in the real issues that pertain to all of us. If we are to reestablish Somali state we have to tackle the root of the problem. I’m terribly sorry but you come across as a fake who chickens out when asked what you are rambling about. For crying out loud, this is a virtual forum and we got nothing to lose to admit that looting and looters ain’t something dignified folks brag about.

 

Johny,

Wrong. Reading comprehension is in order sxb. I made an excellent point. The point is the civil war displaced urbanites who were predominantly from one clan. In the clan warfare that’s a victory for the winning clan. In the civilized world, it is a tragedy and in the post-conflict period it is a liability for the tribe who won the contest. Reason being those who occupied has to vacate the premises they have resided. In our case, many poor families will be in need of legit residence in the urban areas as the private dwellings and public schools and other government institutions have to be vacated. This is a monumental challenge for the responsible leaders...not ur cup of tea.

 

No I didn’t say the land belongs to Puntlanders. Not at all. It belongs to a variety of clans all of them Somalis. Many folks [edited - out of respect of the SOL rules but the point is about eight clans have stake at this] are victims in this new deal. Puntlanders and SPM affiliated clans are but small part of overall picture. I happen to be the one who is articulating the problem of the land grab. The problem of your premise and that of OLOL and Juma is you are forced (for clannish reasons) to justify the unjustifiable and to defend the looters. It is no accident that you all of you are left nothing but to attack personalities and construct an imaginary enemy (punlanders) in this seemingly irrational and unreasonable political sandcastle.

 

Again anyone who want to discuss the real issues (Mogadishu-Kismayo real estate)! How this issue shapes the decisions both sides had made in the past and the one they are forced to make in the near future is a political judgment with monumental importance! Is this important enough to destroy the lil understanding the so called politicians had reached in Nairobi?

 

My take is the lords of Mogadishu have a lot to lose as genuine reconciliation means a complete reversal of the ill-gotten gains. My problem with Abdullahi government is that it blundered by adopting a confrontational attitude and by adopting a policy that advocates force as the only the way out of this impasse. I’m being realistic here and I don’t think that is a sensible policy.

 

Xiin, kaftan dhable it was. I disagree though that your “allegory†generalizes a whole clan and implies that the impasse stems from human traits of those who live there happily coexisting with the anarchy that’s associated with the city. Yes ports and airport are closed just because few greedy men saw fit to milk their own facilities at the expense of the residents. Why is that? I maintain that it is easy to bring down a functioning government however corrupt it is but a whole lot difficult to erect another one. The fact that Ceydiid indoctrinated his legions that the other tribe have been humiliating them for ages and whatever harm done in the name of liberation is justified is one reason that at the end he couldn’t control them. He recruited his militia with no pay and the loot was their salaries so to speak. How in the world would you tell someone who lost limp and leg, relatives and buddies to vacate the premises he has looted. Listen OLOL carefully he makes that case unknowingly. In any case I hear ya...u said it is 1-1 kinda deal.

[Johnny B]

Originally posted by Baashi:

Johny,

No I didn’t say the land belongs to Puntlanders. Not at all. It belongs to variety of clans all of them Somalis. Jiido, Garre, *** , biyomaal, dabare, tunni, Barawaani, gibil cad, hindi, and Baajuun are victims in the new deal. Puntlanders are but small part of overall picture. I happen to be the one who is articulating the problem of the land grab. The problem of your premise and that of OLOL and Juma is you are forced (for clannish reasons) to justify the unjustifiable and to defend the looters. It is no accident that you all of you are left nothing but to attack personalities and construct an imaginary enemy (punlanders) in this seemingly irrational and unreasonable political sandcastle.

Bashi...

One can´t help but smell a lofty contempt in your post ,at least you could have granted us

( me , OLOL n COL JUMA

(( i love the "COL JUMA thing" , but i guess xiin has a copyright on it ))

)

the decency of beeing punch of indivituals (Nomads if u like )with their own views and ideas, just as you distinguished yourself from the YEY camp´s cheerleaders.

First n farmost an appology to bro OLOL would be in place as he never chickened out but politely said " pass " and reasoned as to why .

 

second .. The issue of land and who owns it could have it´s OWN thread.

 

The land issue from your prespective has started with the civil war , but we KNOW it has started earlier,with government confiscation of land and properties that belonged to the natives which then went to ministers and likes from the government who happen to predominantly belong to a certain clan,

 

You may say still in defiance , but the issue is more complicated than merly implying that Clan X has grabbed land from Clan y, and the notion that all those clans you counted are loosers in the real new deal is JUST another way of alienating Clan x.

 

As for the warlords of Mogadishu , i think it´s unfair to say they´ll loose more than what C/Yousuf or Rayaale n all the other warlords will loose if peace n genuine reconciliation was given a chance.

[Gabbal]

Too much has happened in Somalia.

[wind.talker]

I got nothing against "puntlanders" per se, but I despise the warlord –President-Select Yeey and his nostalgic and hegemo

hegemonic

nic backward-looking policies. That has really touched some nerve here and that is why all the die-hard cheerleaders are so infuriated.

Hmm...It was recently that the grand warrior JUMA used that same word in reference to Col Yeey (and presumably his clan). This notion that Col Yeey will bring clan "hegemony" is nothing but coffee-shop he-say propagated and compounded by Mogadishu war/druglords and their mightiest cohorts, the media.

 

For the true believers of such conspiracy theories (the same ones who believed Sh. Xasan when he magically produced a copy of an Ethiopian war plan in Garoowe) - I have one thing to say: the days of Cali Kenadiid are long behind us. You should control your semi-understandable fear of once again being categorized into the lower stratum of any future caste system you believe Col Yeey has in store for you. Why? Because its you have arms, media etc. and everything that happens in Somalia can be easily reported. This so-called TFG is all-inclusive (excp. for S/land) and members of the USC are included in it. So what gives? Maxaa loo caga juglaynaa? Maxaa dadweynaha Xamar loo maaweelinaa? Eventually, people will realize your idols' (Mogadishu and allied war/druglords) are nothing but men of war who have no chance of ever relieving Xamar of its current state of duress.

 

15 sano baa ka soo wareegtay markii Xamar looga soo qaxay dadkii sheegtay inay "xaq" u leeyihiin degaanka. 15 sano baad tashan-wayseen. 15 sano bay Soomaaliwayn idin xayirnaayeen. Hadaad tashanwaysaan, waa la'idin talin. That's what it'll eventually come down to. Incompetence at such a level has never been known in modern man's history.

 

On Kismayo,...JVA alliance had won the battle of Juba, where does that fact leave folks like me? ...1) Swallow my foolish pride and say alright Barre and his senior partners are in charge now, deal with them and relinquish Kismayo resident's political ambition and in return secure all their properties...When the dust settles

those who have the money, the know-how, the political intrigue will carry the day and in the case of Kismayo I have no doubt who will have the upper hand.

Taas ma awalbaa shaki kaaga jiray?

[Gabbal]

Taas ma awalbaa shaki kaaga jiray?

Adigu shaki kama haysid?

 

No pun intended, but somehow I knew someone would pick up the torch and put an emphasize on the Duqa's all prophetic phrase. Now tell me why I had marked you as that torch bearer?

 

Kismaayo is an international city and will stay as such. :cool:

[Johnny B]

Originally posted by wind.talker:

 

I have one thing to say:

the days of Cali Kenadiid are long behind us.

You should control your semi-understandable fear of once again being categorized into the lower stratum of any future caste system you believe Col Yeey has in store for you.

Ain´t that comming from the WRONG jaws ?

Wind.Talker peel it b4 someone yells "Tol belayey".

 

If there is (was) a caste system in place among Somali society and your clan was at the top of the hierarchy then

you´ll have to enlight us about where it exixted and why

n please explain for all those refugees in the Kenyan camps that their place in the hierarchy is temporarily overtaken.

[xiinfaniin]

First let me distant my self from the implication of that story if it ever used to generalize clans or societies (that’s not what I had in mind). I thought we were talking about warlords and lost leadership of Xamar. I would keep it though as it gains relevancy any time Col Juma peeks his head and utter those nonsensical words.

 

Baashe, I am afraid it’s more than, as you put it, “few greedy menâ€. In my opinion it’s a political platform that ‘s based on clannish ideology to deliver unraveled political dominance in the south. But by what cause, I ask? Fifteen years should have been enough for that ilk (entire political establishment of USC) to realize that they’ve indeed drunk from the bog! For me, good Baashe, this issue is about Masalatu-al-xalaal wal-xaraam: the heart of our Islamic faith. It’s a gross injustice to capture cities not to rule (why not rule? I for one was ready for it) but to empty its inhabitants out and claim their properties simply because they belong to the opposing clan (some times lacking military and militia muscle was good enough to receive the curse (barawaani))! It’s equally disturbing to brag and blow the horn about it or worse yet justify it! That’s all saaxiib.

 

OLOL, yours is either a youthful indiscretion of sort or worse yet you’re a sufferer of extreme emotions who deserves our prayers. How in the world could you claim impartiality and yet defend and justify the loots?

 

 

Johhny, where have you been saaxiib? Only Allah has the unparalleled competence to make imperfect instruments work!

 

W.T, well said sxb. Cuqdaddi dawladnimo ma keento!

[Baashi]

Morning folks,

Again reading comprehension 101 is in order Johny. You seem to be reading stuff into the post. Yes I’m willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and take your (and others) post as they appear on the forum. Your views seem to be unprincipled. I’m challenging the premise that justifies the wrongs done to innocent Muslims because of past transgressions committed by former regime. That, my friend, is wrong in every way.

 

Now you can jump up and down and say I don’t buy that cuz it is a point made by PLer. Careful there sxb your views reflect your intellect and integrity. On OLOL, the man issagoo afka ka xunbeynayuu inna soo galay. Waa assaga xagga iyo xageer isku qaaday oo dadkii xaaraan dusha uga tuuray, waa issga yiri annigu in yar oo Somali ah baa igu jidha markii la weydiiyey waxa ka bah bah siinayana waa issaga doodii uu la soo shir tagay marrin aqoon waayey. Maxaan u dhimay oo aan ku raali galiyaa?

 

Ka gudub, you’ve made an excellent point when you said “The land issue from your prespective has started with the civil war , but we KNOW it has started earlier,with government confiscation of land and properties that belonged to the natives which then went to ministers and likes from the government who happen to predominantly belong to a certain clanâ€

 

Doodu haday madax iyo manjo yeelatay. Baravo! Johny now u r talking sxb. Let’s cut to the chase once and for all. What you have said is true. However, that has nothing to do with the private properties of the folks who had been driven out. The point you have made is not a problem per se. Reason being the names of the government officials and their portfolio are known. Mohamed Sheikh Osman and Abdiqasim long time ministers of the former government will be the star witnesses on this imagined court. What you need to understand is Xadiya Miskiin who was born and bred in Mogadishu who has never held a government position and whose husband spent most of his productive life in prison can not be denied her property by Abdiqasim. That would be aduunyo gadoon! And you as Johny are not in position to spearhead this dulmi and justify the looting and pillaging done by thugs in the name of their clan by going online. What’s in it for you?

 

WT, no doubt my man

 

Horn, true Kismayo is a Somali city. So is Mogadishu where you actually have your booli qaran. If you are man enough make your stand where is needed. In any event, Kismayo is open to all but not ready to purge its residents and replace with other kooyto! Shido ma jidho boowe innagu waan iska heshiin doonaa ee waxaad yeeshaa wax isku hara aduun galinba waa ceyne!

Xiin, much respect bro. We are on the same page now (ur last post)

 

Oday :cool: