RIS-5 going strong!!!!TORONTO Dec.22-28

[Ameen]

Wow..and before I forget, Assalam

 

Now its not really like me to jump to conclusions and start categorizing people into one group, nor are the words I use or the message I tend to spread, directly from myself. The question is, how do we know a person's true beliefs? Well, Imaam Al-Barbahaaree(one of the Great Imaam of the Sunnah who lived in Iraq about 1100 years ago) states in his book, Explanation of the Creed, "examine carefully the speech of everyone in your time.." and thats probably the best way to understand a persons belief system. By simply listening and understanding their words. It is not my job to label anybody and believe me, I have to many things going on in my life, to worry about others and that reminds of a hadeeth in which the Prophet was reported to have said, "blessed is he, who is so occupied with his own affairs, that he becomes unware of the affairs of others". Personally, I went to last years RIS event and I witnessed the mixing and I remember thinking to myself, "well, you know what, its whatever people make it and if they want to mix and chill with each other, thats out of my control", but the greatest memory I hold from the event of last year is when Shieks came on the stage one after the other and I sat in my chair and I listened until I could no longer process words, and it seemed like the shieks (may Allah forgive me) were contridicting each other. Now dont jump on me just yet...because By Allah, I remember one of the speakers and Im sorry that I lost his name in my memory...he gave his reminder and finished his appointed term on the stage by saying..."it would not be proper if I did not mention that no event nor any people will ever be successful if we dont follow the rules of the Shaari'a", and it seemed like he was directing those comments towards the organizers...but Allah knows best (afterall I aint no mind reader). Personally, I know many people love Tarik Ramadan and why not...I remember about a year ago, I went on his website and read an article that was posted and he spoke badly about the Scholar of our time and their "greedy fatwa's" as I remember reading. Now I understand, nobody is perfect nor would I be a sound minded person if I took one article from somebody and made a life-time judgment on it...so I wont do that..it just something interesting I wanted to share. In regards to intermingling with Kafirs in our daily life, well sister...we do live in a Kafir land. I hope that Allah will teach me good manners that will cause these people of multi-faith to be drawn (not to me but ) to Islam and I seek refuge with Allah from being a fitnah to them. I am not against the RIS. I am not one of those people who run around and say this is halal and that is haraam, fear Allah and other simpler words...but rather, I like to take a step back and observe because I know that Islam will be divided into 73 sects and one will be the successful...and guess what? I hope that I am among those of will be successful (as you wish to be among them also). I hope I answered all your questions...and if not...than holla back

Your brother in Islam

And Allah knows best

[Ameen]

One more thing, is it more correct to say that Islam is a religion of equality or a religion of justice?

And Allah knows best

[x_quizit]

I still do not get your reasonings. On the one hand you acknowledge that intermingling occurs daily in our lives, and on the other,you hold RIS accountable for something you participate in regularly. Unlike individuals, who can more or less choose what they do daily, RIS is an organization that is trying their best to adhere to islam, namely in their efforts to separate the sexes, which you don't give them credit for. You paint the picture that the event is a free for all mixing, when in reality, how you choose to conduct yourself there should be your only concern, not what others around you are doing.

 

In regards to your comment about the sheikhs contradicting each other, each one is responsible for himself and shouldn't be held accountable for another's point of view. Where is your proof? That comment about the one sheikh who said we should follow the sharia doesn't mean he's contradicting himself for attenting the conference, it is simply a reminder to us all.

 

Your question: "is it more correct to say that Islam is a religion of equality or a religion of justice?"

 

It is both, Islam doesn't practice inequality nor does it endorse injustice, it is a religion that is rooted in fairness for all.

[Ameen]

Assalam....

I think I've been misunderstood. In my pervious comment I wrote "I remember thinking to myself, "well, you know what, its whatever people make it and if they want to mix and chill

with each other, thats out of my control"...and the understanding that I was hoping that you would come too was, despite all the efforts the organizers of the RIS are implementing, you can never control individuals who's intentions are to intermingle with the other gender ( and how can you when they will respond be saying..."Yo, Im looking for a future wife or a husband,lol). An organization has only has such much resources and abilities to run a program or an event, so hats off to them. I want to take this oppurtunity to give the organizers credit where credit is due. It is a weak arguement to say that the RIS is discouraged because of the "free-mixing"...and I never tried to argue that point of view, but I just wanted to cause people to open their eyes to an event that invites a Rabbi and others who to speak to a group of Muslims (mainly youths). Dont get me wrong, some of the speakers I highly respect and I could never pay them enough to sit in their company, such as Shaykh Sulaiman Mulla and Shaykh Abdallah Bin Bayyah and others...but we dont not benefit fully from a lacture style event and you ask why?

Through studies, it has been determined, the amount of information that an individual remembers from a lacture is so limited (they actually say, you will only remember 20% of the total speech, but Allah knows best), in knowing that...an Islamic conference is intended to remind people of the important things in life such as Allah and the Rasoul and our duties in Islam. But if your goal in to seek knowledge, than I invite you to Al-Maghrib (if you have not already attended a seminar). In regards to your answer to my question...that was a safe answer, and alhamdulilah.

Your borther in Islam

And Allah knows best

[x_quizit]

There is nothing wrong with inviting a rabbi, he isn't there to convert us, and if we muslims are secure in the knowledge that our deen is the right one, hearing what he has to say can't hurt us. He may talk about our shared faiths, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. Let's not judge until we see what he has to offer b4 you put doubts in future attendees heads.

 

I attended a seminar for al-maghrib institute and found it very beneficial.

[Ameen]

How can we feel secure about our religion, when are knowledge is very limited? When we dont even understand the true concept of tawheed and do you really think that he (the rabbi) wont try to put doubt in our hearts, in regards to Islam?

( afterall he does place himself among the Bani Isreals and we know what type of people they are, through Allah) If your solution to a problem is, lets wait and see what happens...but what if..the time for change has alread passed by? What do we do than? We need more of a proactive lifestyle rather than a reactive. But dont worry, I wont bring things up like this no more, because I really wouldn't want to place doubt in the heads of (these people who are actually smarter than they may seem or) the future attendees. By the way, which Al-Maghrib class did you attend, if you dont mind me asking?

And Allah knows best

[Aaliyyah]

Ameen I haven’t seen any daliil that prohibits sitting with ppl who have different believes. It is actually encouraged to be with other people who have different perspectives, that way you can reach out and perhaps make them understand why they are wrong.

Allah yaclam If for whatever reasons the sheikhs that are going to be in RIS give different believes than us in some issues, den perhaps we should try to make sense out of their daliil since they could be right. although, If you disagree there is always a way to see or correspond to the sheikhs to make them see why they are wrong, and provide daliil.

 

The main thing is we all need to try to be open to gain more knowledge (different perspectives). Given that the sheikhs that are coming to the RIS are scholars and imams who most likely spend years studying Islam. So we simply can not disregard their perspective, since it must have some truth to it. Don’t get me wrong brother I am not saying you need to believe everything you hear, that is for you to decide, but we can not say simply someone is from another sect than we shouldn’t associate ourselves with them. We need to associate with everyone, Christians Jews other Muslims who we have minor disagreements, so we can solve our differences. Allah yaclam cala kulu shey.

 

WA SALAAAM

[Aaliyyah]

Ameen perhaps your knowledge is limited?? bt are u seriously going to doubt yrself on few words the Rabbi utters?? are you that insecure? rather it should even make you be more firm on yr believes, once you hear him out ....dont u know there is like several Bibles out there, all of them contradicting one another........Alhmadu lilaah nothing will ever make me doubt what I beleive in, as limited as it might be.

 

 

wa salaaaaam

[x_quizit]

Ameen, no need to panic, the times I have attended and ppl of other faiths were invited, they only talked about the similarities of the faiths and have not put down islam.If you think he can put doubts in your heart, then ur deen isn't very strong, but that's for you to resolve. Don't assume that all the others would be weak and fall prey to doubts, i'm secure enough in my religion that I can listen to any faith without being tempted to jump ship. It actually strengthens my deen.

 

The seminar was held a couple weeks back, a friend invited me last minute so I did not register for the class, but the first day was informative.

[Ameen]

It's true

We are living in a time where opinions are many and knowledge is limited, so yes, my knowledge is limited. But inshA'laah I will continue to read and sit with those who have knowledge and follow the sunnah, to increase my knowledge.

Remember the basic ruling of fiqh, that all matters within the religion are prohibited unless proven otherwise, whereas, all the matters that have to do with dunya is permissible, unless proven otherwise through clear proof. Understanding this basic concept of fiqh, I shouldn't be the person bringing a daliil that prohibits sitting with ppl who have different beliefs, afterall, that falls within our belief system and belief is a major factor in our religion. Nevertheless, its all good. When you say, it is actually encouraged to be with other people who have different prespectives, that way you can reach out to them and make them understand why they are wrong? The question is, who should reach out to them? Shouldnt it be the people of knowledge?(at the same time, I understand if you read or understood through a respected source, a particular issue, than it is a duty upon you that you share that knowledge with them, but generally speaking, shouldnt it be the people of knowledge). If the matter that people differ in deals with "what madhab they follow", than it should be known, the four madhabs that are most common today, are all upon the truth. Those scholar (may Allah have mercy upon them) differed in minor issue, but they agreed on the foundations of the religion. So, its not a matter of a shiek who is a hanifi sharing his views, while the individual may consider themselves a Maliki or something, but the problem is bigger than that. And how could we feel secure with our beliefs, when nabi Ibrahim asked Allah to show him the ressurection of a bird so that he may use that to increase his beliefs? Indeed when Allah shared that knowledge with us through the Quran, there was a lesson in matters that we should try to grasp. So, its not the fact that Im in secure with my aqeedah of this perfect religion, rather, it is one less outside influence that Im trying to protect my heart from. Remember an individual wont be held accountable for whatever his/her heart is attached too (because afterall, we cant control the heart), but will most def, be questioned about all those steps that they took, to get to that stage, and the "nowadays" proof for this is, have you not seen a relationship where a female is getting beat and disrespected and all, despite the fact that she acknowledges all the negitives in that relationship, she just cant up and leave, her heart wont let her...Islam protects us from getting to that stage and one way is, to limit the reasons and the places where the genders are given this opportunity. My point is, your faith system may be strong, but what about the sister sitting next to you? Or the parents who have mixed up their cultures practises with their religion? As the Prophet (saw) said, the believers resemble one human body, so that, if one part of the human body is not well, then the whole body shares that insomnia"-Al Bukhari.

So Im not just thinking about myself, but I rather chose to practise this hadeeth. I also want to share a few interesting points from people who have the knowledge, in regards to, sitting with ppl who care a different aqeedah, but I have writen too much, so maybe another time inshallah.

And Allah knows best

[Khalaf]

I know a brother (learned lot form him) he changed masjids....and started his own masjid for salafi aqeedah cause the imam, and majority of masjid goers there........ his said the imams teachings are astray..........and the way of the salaaf is xaaq.......I didn’t agree told him: dont separate the muslims into sects or leave the jammat(community).......the imam is from Al-Azhar, fluent arabic... this brother al-maghrib courses, lectures, books.

 

ibn al-Qayyim ra described how shaydan misleads the believers two ways:. either makes the muslim neglectful (what is RIS... boring yo um chiil with farhia, catch a ballgame or somthin na mean)......or overzealous (haram man, haraaam, there will be too many beautiful xalimos there, fitnah fitnah! )

 

 

The point neither is correct- we are the middle nation. our MSA we had dialouge between faiths, muslim/jewish/christian speakers... the muslim brother kept talking about the similarities between ppl of the book n muslims (me thinking: we are muslims! we are not like the kufars! :mad: ....apologetic dude! :mad: )........but at the meeting one white brother took the shadah...........and the muslims came together as is the sunnah of the prophet scw....to be among the jammat.

 

 

salaamulah

[StarGazer]

oh wow, 2 pages already?? sorry guys, I know I've been MIA....just been real busy. Insha Allah I'll reply to some posts....I do have some thoughts I want to share.

 

OHHHHHH....IT'S OFFICIAL...I BOUGHT MY RETREAT TICKETS.....due to unforeseen circumstances, I'll be missing 2 days of the convention But I'll catch you all...promise!

 

Wa salaam.

[StarGazer]

Assalamu Alaikum brothers & sisters!!!

 

In response to Ameen regarding sitting with folks from different aqeedah: a similar question was asked in last year's retreat to Shaykh Abdallah Bin Bayah. Anyone who knows about this Shaykh will come to the conclusion, given his extensive background, to be one of the top scholars living today, may Allah always protect and bless him. So I highly value his opinions/naseehah. He really did clear up some confusion I had last year.

 

Someone asked about the different aqeedah, ie. salafis vs.murids & asharafi, etc...... (Please let's not get into extensive discussion what each of these are).

 

His answer was: (straight from my notes)

 

* People shouldn't argue about these issues, for they have been around for centuries.

 

* Everyone is looking at the same words, but come to different interpreations--- literal vs. metaphoric.

 

*He studied each one in depth, and they are inconclusive. They are intellectual.

 

*His advice is to avoid calling people kuffar & fusaaq.

 

*Don't go into detail.

 

*We shouldn't attack, these are insoluble problem, I've studied this indepth.

 

*Philophy of materialism is a bigger problem in the world than these other issues.

 

Additional advice from various other questions

 

*He stressed the importance of unity, that it should be the higher principle.

 

*He mentioned how our religion is vaste, we should recognize other perspectives, and that we should be open minded!

 

*If you make everything constricted, people become constricted. There should be room given to people.

 

*Also, when asked about homosexuality rampant in today's society, he said to stick to people of Abrahamic faith (ie. Christians and Jews) regarding this matter.(Khalaf do you think he's apologetic too?)

 

 

He's presence and insight....wow, walaahi was an eye opening experience for me. May Allah make it possible for students in N.America to learn from him again.

 

Ok, that's all I'll say about this topic!

[Ameen]

Assalam alaikum...and welcome back Tami,afterall you did post the topic and than were found to be missing in Action.

Firstly, I value the opinions and the knowledge of Shaykh Abdallah Bin Bayah and as I mentioned in one of my pervious comments, "we could never pay the right amount of money, to sit in his and similar modern day scholars company" (may Allah have mercy on them and us). After reviewing the first seven points from your notes, that relate to the question I was asking, you still haven't made it clear whether he found it permissible to sit with people who share a different aqeedah. In regards to his advice that we should not argue about topics such as this, Al-Barbahaaree mentioned a similar remark in his book when he said, "Debating, arguing and disputing are innovations which throw doubt into the heart, even if the person reaches the truth and the Sunnah" (most people read this sentence from his book and take it face on, without actually understanding the deep meaning behind it), so inshallah my intention is not to debate nor argue about such an issue, but rather, I simply dont want to act in haste and thus enter into anything without actually asking and seeing (seeing as in,researching and reading about the topic):And the main questions that I would keep in mind would be, did any of the Companions of the Prophet (saws) speak about this issue or any of the pervious scholars? So if I find a narration from them about such a topic, I will try to cling to it, and I simply do not want to go beyond that. Unless I missed reading a point from your notes, did he or did he not advice us not to sit and listen to the speech of the different people? Im sorry about the question, and dont mean to come off ignorant or anything, I just want to know what the scholar or our time said in plain english (or should I say Arabic).

And Allah knows best

[Khalaf]

Tami walaalshiis i dont know, this is why we have no ummah...separting into groups, aruging on small issues.....i do think that the same ppl who tried to write the Quran (fuqran).....would try to mislead ppl with scholars.... they never rest but nothing going stop ISLAM it aint comunnism ya heard........ this deen will be victorous that is promise of Allah Most Great yaaaaaaa Kufariiin.........u got jewish spies converting to Islam, preists, rap stars, hollywood models....Allahu is Most Great.

 

 

Here is trailer.