DigibAc Posted February 15, 2007 This TFG will never work. The only way it will stay in power is by force (foreign force at that!) but Somali people will never except it. Why? Because it’s based on clanism. The thing about clanism is that it can only divide people but it will never unite them. You see at the root of the TFG system is the idea public politics and leadership is based on qabiil NOT citizenship. So the Somali people are divided up into 4.5 qabiil groups and all government institutions are staffed on the basis of qabiil. So the TFG is a qabiilist government . The thing about qabiilist politics is: you live by qabiil you die by qabiil. Just watch how the very thing that the TFG is based on (qabiil) destroys it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
General Duke Posted February 15, 2007 ^^^So was the TNG and actually the clan system is temporary untill district elections are set in place and the federal states are formed. It is a flawd system but the best one, because all clans are represented in the system and specially the unarmed clans have a greater say in this system than in any other one. As for the notion of belonging to clans and not being citizen, its absurd, citizens are members of communities, thus the clans are stakeholders within the state.. Just like you have English, Irish, Welsh and Black, these are identies, communities and are important to the people of the British isles. The major clans are all equal regardless of what each holds to be true. The TFG has been welcomed by the people and only the armed factions who held through looting lareg tracts of land and property. They came in the forms of warlords and later transformed into clan courts however the people embraced their government and wanted it to work.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DigibAc Posted February 15, 2007 Hello General Duke, I hope you're doing well. Lets keep in mind that "the federal states" will be qabiilist entities like Puntland, so the clan system will stay institutionalized (that is if the TFG even lasts long enough for these federal states to be created.) Second, please provide documentation that the TNG was infact based on the 4.5 qabiilist system. I read about the 4.5 system in the TFG charter but I've not been able to find such a statement about the TNG. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Juje Posted February 15, 2007 The Jenerale says it is a government of stake holders..lol...could it may be the other stake holders have not yet turned up.. Duke look at this list and tell me what is wrong with it. Dhanka Ciidammada 1. Wasiirka Gaashaandhigga Barre Aadan Shire (Hiiraale) ******* 2. Abaanduulaha ciidammada Axmed Mahdi Cabdisalaan – ******* 3. Taliyaha ciidanka Booliska Cali Madoobe - ******* 4. Taliyaha Ciidammada Cabdullaahi Cali Cumar (Ina libaaxsankataabte) – ****** 5. Taliyaha ciidanka Sirdoonka Col Maxamed Darwiish – ******* 6. Taliyaha guutada 1-aad Cabdirisaaq Afguduud – ****** 7. Taliyaha guutada 2-aad Cabdullaahi Fartaag – ******* 8. Taliyaha guutada 3-aad Xiif Cali Taar – ****** 9. Taliyaha guutada 4-aad Col Cabdullaahi Carays – ****** 10. Taliyaha dekedda iyo airport-ka Xamar Laba Xiddigle Joocaar - ******* Dhanka Madaxtooyada 1. Yuusuf Cumar Al-Azhari, La Taliyaha Madaxweynaha dhinaca siyaasada - ****** 2. Jamaal Cumar, La Taliyaha Madaxweynaha dhinaca sharciga - ****** 3. Yuusuf Cusmaan Baribari, Afhayeenka Madaxweynaha, ahna safiirka Brussels - ********** 4. Cabdirashiid Seed, Ergayga gaarka ah ee Madaxweynaha- ******* 5. Daahir Mire Jibriil, Agaasimaha Madaxtooyada - ********* 6. Cabdirisaaq Axmed Cali, Agaasime ku xigeenka Madaxtooyada - ******** 7. Axmed Yuusuf, Xoghaynta gaarka ah ee Madaxweynaha - ******* 8. Cabdullaahi Dheere, Madaxa ilaalada Madaxweynaha - ******* 9. Cali Jiis, Waardiyaha gaarka ah ee Madaxweynaha - ******* 10. Axmed Cabdullaahi Yuusuf, wiilka Madaxweynaha, ahna qasniga Madaxtooyada - ******* 11. Yuusuf Weyrax, La Taliyaha Madaxweynaha dhinaca Dhaqaalaha - ******* 12. Xasan Cali Yuusuf, Madaxa borotokoolka Madaxweynaha - ******* 13. Hibo Maxamed Cilmi, La Taliyaha Madaxweynaha ee dhinaca xiriirka bulshada - ****** Here is what the writer who compiled this had to say "Haddaba, waxaa muuqata in dowladda Cabdullaahi Yuusuf aysan xitaa ahayn dowlad qabiil ee ay tahay dowlad qoys iyo mid jufo. Sidaa awgeed, ma ahan mid qaadan karta term-ka ‘dowlad’ ee waa jabhad lagu dhisay qaab xaaraan ah, Soomaaliduna waxay tiraahdaa “Hal xaaraan ah, Nirig xalaal ah ma dhasho." Nepotism is in the blood of every Somali, it has been here since independence, through Barre's regime which was a catalyst to the civil war. Again it was evident in the Maxakamiins, now President Yusuf introduced a new dimenssion, 'qabileysi an xishood laheyn'. What Duke doesnt know is it is the sign of a disintegration and demise of a ruler. Source [ February 16, 2007, 12:52 AM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emperor Posted February 15, 2007 ^^Just to clarify Inna libaax-Sankataabke is not from ********, nevertheless you can argue that he is a Puntlander. Again most of the indivuals listed were not officially named by the government or even the President so be sure of what you present.. One question thou, don't you think the president or for that matter any member of the government have the right to choose who he wants to be his bodygourd, secretary or PA, personal trainer/adviser and this would not automatically qualify them as officials of this government. Last but not least there are plenty of eqully or more important posts held by other clans but you won't cover, this is just another cheap excuse... Be firm like the ICU and say you against the TFG no matter what even all these posts were asigned to different clans. [ February 16, 2007, 12:53 AM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kamalu Diin Posted February 15, 2007 [Rate Member posted February 15, 2007 01:09 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am as a victem as they( the subject of this report)including most of peacelong Somalis by USC/ICU. Dhanka Ciidammada 1. Wasiirka Gaashaandhigga Barre Aadan Shire (Hiiraale) ******* 2. Abaanduulaha ciidammada Axmed Mahdi Cabdisalaan – ******* 3. Taliyaha ciidanka Booliska Cali Madoobe - ******* 4. Taliyaha Ciidammada Cabdullaahi Cali Cumar (Ina libaaxsankataabte) – ****** 5. Taliyaha ciidanka Sirdoonka Col Maxamed Darwiish – ******* 6. Taliyaha guutada 1-aad Cabdirisaaq Afguduud – ****** 7. Taliyaha guutada 2-aad Cabdullaahi Fartaag – ******* 8. Taliyaha guutada 3-aad Xiif Cali Taar – ****** 9. Taliyaha guutada 4-aad Col Cabdullaahi Carays – ****** 10. Taliyaha dekedda iyo airport-ka Xamar Laba Xiddigle Joocaar - ******* Dhanka Madaxtooyada 1. Yuusuf Cumar Al-Azhari, La Taliyaha Madaxweynaha dhinaca siyaasada - ****** 2. Jamaal Cumar, La Taliyaha Madaxweynaha dhinaca sharciga - ****** 3. Yuusuf Cusmaan Baribari, Afhayeenka Madaxweynaha, ahna safiirka Brussels - ********** 4. Cabdirashiid Seed, Ergayga gaarka ah ee Madaxweynaha- ******* 5. Daahir Mire Jibriil, Agaasimaha Madaxtooyada - ********* 6. Cabdirisaaq Axmed Cali, Agaasime ku xigeenka Madaxtooyada - ******** 7. Axmed Yuusuf, Xoghaynta gaarka ah ee Madaxweynaha - ******* 8. Cabdullaahi Dheere, Madaxa ilaalada Madaxweynaha - ******* 9. Cali Jiis, Waardiyaha gaarka ah ee Madaxweynaha - ******* 10. Axmed Cabdullaahi Yuusuf, wiilka Madaxweynaha, ahna qasniga Madaxtooyada - ******* 11. Yuusuf Weyrax, La Taliyaha Madaxweynaha dhinaca Dhaqaalaha - ******* 12. Xasan Cali Yuusuf, Madaxa borotokoolka Madaxweynaha - ******* 13. Hibo Maxamed Cilmi, La Taliyaha Madaxweynaha ee dhinaca xiriirka bulshada - ******] I think this is even less than 1/1000 of how many people that TFG is employed, thus doesn't tell me anything. The producer of this document is one who avocates more then his share. The D he is talking about was more then 30% of Mogadishu resident before 1991, and now they only live in villa Somalia Mr English guy who wrote this report is jelous about somalida dulman in ay xaqooda helaan. Waxaanse ka sii jeclaan lahaa iyadoo Shaatigaduud, Morgan, bulbul, Parliment speakers and Hiiraale in ay tuugadoo ku haystaan Mogadishu dhexdeeda as USC/ICU tuugadoodu ay u dhex joogaan and that is what I call fair for every one ileen Mugadishu waa la wada lahaa ka hor intii ay USC/ICU aysan ka eryin Peace loving Somalis. [ February 16, 2007, 12:55 AM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
General Duke Posted February 15, 2007 Anyhow 8. Taliyaha guutada 3-aad Xiif Cali Taar – ****** 9. Taliyaha guutada 4-aad Col Cabdullaahi Carays – ******* 10. Taliyaha dekedda iyo airport-ka Xamar Laba Xiddigle Joocaar - ******* .................. The above men are not employed by the central governemnt, two are local government employees, and the other is Ethiopian commander. Also the army is a work in progress... The second part is misleading those advisers and close aides to the president are just that, close aides.. there are a few noted embessasies. 1. UN, Dr Elmi 2. Kenya Mr Ali Ameriko 3. EU.Yusuf Bari-Bari 3. China.. 4. Oman Gen Naji 5. Yemen Ina Siyad Barre and so on.. [ February 16, 2007, 12:56 AM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
General Duke Posted February 15, 2007 Digital. The cabines structure is 4.5, the parliment formula is based on 4.5 you can ask anyone. As for if it lasts, it is moving forward. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sharif_seylaci Posted February 15, 2007 all the army chiefs and ranks are from one type of clan yusufs clan from puntland Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ahmed_Guree Posted February 15, 2007 ^^^ what about Somaliland it seems that only Riyaale is ODD one out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
General Duke Posted February 16, 2007 The head of the army is from Puntland and not Yusuf's clan. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bambo Posted February 16, 2007 Duke why is head of the army From Puntland , the rest somalia dont have col. and generals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taako Man Posted February 16, 2007 ^ The head was chosen by PM Geedi. he is not from yusuf clan. He is from the 'minority clan' who happen to be called *******. But anything related within a 1000km radius of President Yusuf is automatically tribal based? [ February 16, 2007, 12:57 AM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kamalu Diin Posted February 16, 2007 USC/ICU hoos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
General Duke Posted February 16, 2007 ^^^Bambo, the head of the army is not from Yusuf's clan. Also theere are many commanders from Mogadishu.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
