Abtigiis Posted December 7, 2009 Egypt is a true friend of the Somali People. By the way, IGAD is in Somaliland as part of the process of resusciating Somalia. But I don't want to dumpen the spirits of credulous Jacaylbaro who jumps with anticipation everytime men with different hair and eye-colour passes by Hargeisa. No one can deny him the right of delusion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jacaylbaro Posted December 7, 2009 Egypt and IGAD do not have the same objectives sxb ,,, looks like Hargeisa is the playground for the moment. The Egyptian ambassador arrived a day before the IGAD delegation to send a msg. IGAD delegation was here for different purpose which i don't want to disclose now. As for Egypt, I understand they wave the "greater Somalia" flag but that did not help anyone in the region. Somaliland is here without them, and with everything they could do to stop us ...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Abtigiis Posted December 7, 2009 IGAD is led by Ethiopia and Kenya, none of who want to support somaliland's secession. Plus Somalia is also part of the IGAD. Djibouti and Eritrea also. I don't know which of these IGAD's you are relying on. It is funny how you make us believe IGAD is composed of Honduras, Peru and Fiji? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Abtigiis Posted December 7, 2009 Oodweyne, Saaxiib, bal noo iftiimi how IGAD is going to help out for those of us who don't believe in miracles and conspiracy theories? Ethiopia - with it own separatist issue in Somaligalbeed knows it is dangerous to push for Somaliland's independence. In fact, that is what Meles confided to some senior Somali region officials on multiple occassion. Kenya- ditto, plus that some key decision-makers ( from NE) are against the idea Eritrea- we know they official position, which SL protested against. Sudan - supports the TFG Somalia- supports itslef as a member! Djibouti - Gheele is clear on this matter Kolka, ma anigoon ogayn ayaa Ghana iyo South Africa lagu soo daray si controband ah IGAD. I mean, fadhi-ku-dirika rer waqooyigu labadaa dal ayey odhan jireen waxbaan isla wadnaa. EDIT- Oodweyne, So it is the US and EU who are supposedly changing their stance on Somaliland? Then, why not be clear about it and go around IGAD? Well, what I know is that there are no official indications from both entities of a change of position. The UN too seems very much in support of Somalia's unity. Unless of course the business community from Somaliland ay si hoose u wada hadlin OBAMA oo ayna wax hoose isla ogeyn! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Abtigiis Posted December 7, 2009 Oodweyne, So it is the US and EU who are supposedly changing their stance on Somaliland? Then, why not be clear about it and go around IGAD? Well, what I know is that there are no official indications from both entities of a change of position. The UN too seems very much in support of Somalia's unity. Unless of course the business community from Somaliland ay si hoose u wada hadlin OBAMA oo ayna wax hoose isla ogeyn! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jacaylbaro Posted December 7, 2009 A&T, all those you mentioned where here (except Eritrea which was under Ethiopia) between 1981 and 1991 ,,, they could help nothing ,,,, and they are here (including Eritrea this time) between 1991 to present ,,,, And we keep moving ,, defeating those they supported and moving in the right direction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ibtisam Posted December 7, 2009 Egypt and IGAD FULL support and recognition of SOMALIA has not helped Somalis, nor has it stabilized the country or contributed anything significant to the chaos for the last 22yrs. In the same breath, their lack of recognition or even hostility to the idea of SL independency cannot hinder the ideology of SL independency for as long as those who hold the ideology stick to it. The world has had the same responses for the last 20yrs about SL and it remains in balance because its population either firmly believe the independency ideology or they are happy with the status quo. Let me know when something interesting happens- that goes to both parties: Pro landers please post a thread once someone actually says they are “changing views about the Somaliland case” and anti SL people, please post a thread once Egypt or any other countries says that they are so against the idea of independent SL “that they are going to Bomb and attack the place to destroy the ideology and the power base” till then NOTHING NEW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Abtigiis Posted December 7, 2009 "We defeated so and so and we are moving ..." is a sort of slogan I would expect from mujahid Muuse Bixi not from a learned person. Anyway, I don't like the certainity there. I can simply say you didn't defeat anyone. The Siyad regime was crumping anyway! But that is another matter. If Aideed didn't storm Muqdisho, chances are the SNM would have been stuck with the 'refugee militias' for another century. Let us be honest here! JB, qaabkaad u hadlaysaa waa qaabka dadka qiiraysan ee saaxibul-mirqaanka ah. Never be too much inward-looking. Kolkaad leedahay, we deafeat all miyaadan xishooneyn? who was arming SNM? not Ethiopia? Ibtisam, what you wrote there is pure nonesense. Of course, recogintion matters for Somaliland and it is not self-given. That is why Egypt and IGAD are entities that matter. When you speak of SL also you speak as if "somaliland" people are all for independence. It is one clan and even the unionists in that clan didnot get the chance to promote their cause. SL is there because Somalia is in shambles. The day you have a proper government in Somalia, AWdal, Sool and Sanaag will be part of it in a minute and the debate will rage in the triangle. It is only part of your TOLKA who want indepence Ibtisam. Let us not confuse people with facades. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jacaylbaro Posted December 7, 2009 Originally posted by Abtigiis & Tolka: "We defeated so and so and we are moving ..." is a sort of slogan I would expect from mujahid Muuse Bixi not from a learned person. Anyway, I don't like the certainity there. I can simply say you didn't defeat anyone? The Siyad regime was crumping anyway? But that is another matter. If Aideed didn't storm Muqdisho, chances are the SNM would have been stuck with the 'refugee militias' for another century. Let us be honest here! JB, qaabkaad u hadlaysaa waa qaabka dadka qiiraysan ee saaxibul-mirqaanka ah. Never be too much inward-looking. Kolkaad leedahay, we deafeat all miyaadan xishooneyn? who was arming SNM? not Ethiopia? That should not boil your blood unless you're guilty of those 88-91 actions ... yes we defeated Siad Barre while he has the support of All Arabs and others. Aideed woke up the last minute when the government was on the verge of collapsing. Now that is another subject ,,, but i want to concentrate that Egypt or Arab's support means nothing to those who are seeking ,,, Look at Mogadishu now ,,, Look at Darfur ,, look at Iraq ,,, and don't even mention Palestine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MAXIMUS POWERS Posted December 7, 2009 Speaking of honesty AT&T, your a man whose people are in limbo. I think you have exhausted yourself championing anti-Somaliland rhetoric. Somaliland needs to look West and forge alliance with those with tangiable power. IGAD, AU, Arab League are all in my opinion a waste of time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Abtigiis Posted December 7, 2009 Don't spook me with 'you were part of 88-91 atrocities'. My views on that are crystal clear! Now, don't you think we know the SNM phenomena inside out? Were they not on the verge of surrendering when the South fell to Aideed? War de, runta waa la ogyahay. The SNM would not have taken Hargeisa if Siyaad didn't leave Muqdisho. Also, the SNM were busy in hit- and -run attacks but never threatened the establishment in the north save for when they stormed Hargiesa in 88 and were brutally bombed. Adeer, the story of the SNM is not about 1887. It is about late 1980s. Raggi la mirqaami jiray SNM ta ayaad rabtaa inaad uga dhigto fire-breathing commandos who descended from the sky! Having said that, this is not to belittle their legitimate resistance. The issue is not about whether Egypt or IGAD supports mean anything. It was you who was waving right under our nose that IGAD is delivering something. When you are presented with a counter-facts, you say why didn't they help Somalia!! That is a different issue, again! Marx, speaking of whether it is right I get preocuupied with others when 'my people are in limbo', I think it is a valid point but one which should not be brought here when JB is smoked out. You can open another thread for that issue. By the way, I notice how you say "your people" meaning the O-community, and yet again talk of why Somaligalbeed is wider than the O. It depends on how wide one bigger one wnats to think of himseld. For me, the plight of the O-people in Somaligalbeed is just one issue of the bigger Somali problem. Hence, I feel I have a stake in Somaliland and Puntland as a somali as a beliver in Somaliweyn. Just because you have narrowed youself to the size of an infant's underwear doesn't mean I should follow suit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Somalia Posted December 7, 2009 ^ A&T, usheeg! Maskiin mira aan soo saaran, macdannah aan lahayn, Marqaankii jaadkana ku taaganyahay Ayaa madax banaani baan rabnaa iyo cid habel baa na taageersan iskugu been sheegayah. Runta hadaad rabtaan, 20 sano xafiis international ah oo ilinkiisa iidin garaacin majiro...Mid waliba waa la idinka kasoo xirtay, oo darishadihii bay idinka dalacdeen. Marka riyaadaan aan weligeed suurta galayn intaad iska daysaan, ummadiina Soomaliyeed dhinac ka raaca. Riyadaan aan dhamaaneyn, Bulshadiina haku lugooynina..wakhtiiguna waa qaali, ha is-kaga luminina waxaan suurta galayn!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jacaylbaro Posted December 7, 2009 A&T, I can see you are retreating niyow ,,,, dib u gurasho xeel dagaal miyaa la odhan jiray ,, The fact is that IGAD has different views than that of Egypt (and Arab League) ..... but no, i'm not giving u more details about the issue. It will come out sooner than later. You will see Egypt begging Somaliland for a bilateral relationship ,,,,, believe me Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ibtisam Posted December 7, 2009 Originally posted by Abtigiis & Tolka: Ibtisam, what you wrote there is pure nonesense. Of course, recogintion matters for Somaliland and it is not self-given. That is why Egypt and IGAD are entities that matter. When you speak of SL also you speak as if "somaliland" people are all for independence. It is one clan and even the unionists in that clan didnot get the chance to promote their cause. SL is there because Somalia is in shambles. The day you have a proper government in Somalia, AWdal, Sool and Sanaag will be part of it in a minute and the debate will rage in the triangle. It is only part of your TOLKA who want indepence Ibtisam. Let us not confuse people with facades. A&T, I am not arguing with you because what is nonsense is basing a whole argument and the wellbeing for the Somali people on THE DAY you have a proper government in Somalia..." Also notice I said that people in SL are either supporters of the ideology or don't oppose it enough to fight it. Sure maybe if there was a viable Somalia, there would be an attractive reason for some to resist, but certainly people will not kick up a fuzz to join the chaos, nor will they risk their lives for "the day Somalia has a proper government" nonsense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UZTAAD Posted December 7, 2009 Originally posted by *Ibtisam: Egypt and IGAD FULL support and recognition of SOMALIA has not helped Somalis, nor has it stabilized the country or contributed anything significant to the chaos for the last 22yrs. In the same breath, their lack of recognition or even hostility to the idea of SL independency cannot hinder the ideology of SL independency for as long as those who hold the ideology stick to it. The world has had the same responses for the last 20yrs about SL and it remains in balance because its population either firmly believe the independency ideology or they are happy with the status quo. Let me know when something interesting happens- that goes to both parties: Pro landers please post a thread once someone actually says they are “changing views about the Somaliland case” and anti SL people, please post a thread once Egypt or any other countries says that they are so against the idea of independent SL “that they are going to Bomb and attack the place to destroy the ideology and the power base” till then NOTHING NEW. Egypt's stand against somaliland's secession helped Somalia because it prevented the Balkanization of Somalia. the Idea of secession is not popular among somaliland populations in fact i have met many people from Hargeisa/Burco who support Somali unity. The Idea of somaliland is pushing by few elites who have vented interest a Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
