Another Division: Do we need this now?

[Paragon]

Double-posting - sorry

[Paragon]

"Intaas markaan sidii dalan u riddey, hadana aan dulucda hadalkeyga usoo dhaco."

 

Sophist ... sow adigaa deelka kaga dhawaajiyey saaxiib. good one....

[Deeq A.]

To the last two posters of the last two deleted posts, Sophist and Mr. Oodweyne, please don't use qabiil names on our website.

 

The mention of any Somali qabiil name on our website will not be tolerated. The rules of the website have to be respected saaxibayaal.

 

This is a warning for you two.

[Sophist]

Salamu Alaikum Admin

 

Walaalayaal waad kumahadsan tihiin inaad fulisaan sharciga bini aadameed ee aad udejiseen wesbsite-kan. Laakin waxaan aad ula yaabanahay in ey idin dhibto marka aan isticmaalo Garre (maha qabiiilka laftiisa) luqad ahaan. Xusuusteyda ayaa ilaha hartey markaan kahadlayey arinkan oo aan si tixraaceed u isticmaaley garre luqad ahaan, marka qabiilka iyo luqadiisa waa isku mid. Sidaas daraareed ayaan u isticmaaley magaca qabiileed ee aad igu heysataan.

 

Mahadsanidi marlabaad.

 

Sophist

[Deeq A.]

Sophist, the last deleted post had nothing to do with Garre or anything educational. It was right after Jamaal-11's post. Mr. Oodwayne took the chance to reply to you with more Qabiil talk.

[Matkey]

Originally posted by Sophist:

Matkey, duqa waxaa laga yaabaa inaad ifahmi weydey markaan afka qalaad wax ku qorey. Haatan bal aan iskun dayo inaan ra'yigeyga aan ku dhiibto luqada aan kahadleyno.

Using generic fallacy to discredit my argument is an indication of immaturity and lack of sound and valid argument from your part. I clearly understood your argument and restrained myself from reaching injudicious inference. If your implication was that my knowledge in English language is limited then i shall say it is true. My econometric professor, who is one of the brightest one in the department, does not speak or writes relatively well. What does that tell you? You be the judge. Let’s confind our argument to the subject matter! The central theme of you argument was that, to paraphrase, recognizing Maay language as one of the officail language will serve no purpose other than dividing somalia. Let me stress my point of view with objective appraoch, unlike many people.

 

It is the freedom of choice which is the premise for our accountability. We innately realize that we are accountable and bear responsibility for the choice we make. This is not an invention of religion; even the atheist society understands and has appreciation for this concept. We are species whose hallmark is freedom. How do Somalis exercise this freedom? Do they bear responsibility for what they have done to their fellow Somalis? Or are they exempt from accountability of their action? Why am I asking these questions? One would answer them by delineating destruction and prevailing social crisis in Somalia, which claimed the lives of many civilians. However, I don’t wish to discuss the atrocities inflicted upon harmless civilian, but to explain the forces behind the persisting anarchy and social destruction in Somalia.

 

In my earlier post i argued that agro-pastoral people are linguistically and socio-culturally different from nomadic people whose thinking and social structure is shaped by their environment. It is said that the latter is more violent than the former because of the hostile environment, and therefore they develop sadistic posture as means to endure their lifestyle. Being aggressive is the way in which this society measures man’s competency. Application of the uniquely human faculty of self-restraint is the principal distinction between humans and animals, but nomadic mentality have played havoc with it.

 

Crimes which have been committed against inter-revering region clearly indicate that grossly impulsive and destructive behavior has always been common social phenomena rather than exception. Nomadic clans use myth of Somali homogeneity in order to become political dominance, and the appropriation of resources from the peaceful and intensely religious agro-pastoral groups in and around the inter-revering region. Once they rose to the power, they brought their historical antagonism existed between their tribes into the political sphere, and hence it became the main factor that led to the civil war in Somalia. The antagonistic behavior of these tribes became state phenomena and spilled over the rest of the country. Clearly, agro-pastoral people never contribute to the persisting mayhem in Somalia. The implication is that they never seek political power in order to gain wealth or for sake of self-glorification. These people relied on their land for economic subsistence.

 

Sophist, the root cause of Somali conflict is the struggle among nomadic clans for control of insufficient resources, especially land and water. Moreover, it is the on-going violent competition between these nomadic clans families for political and economic dominance of the inter-revering region. These are forces behind persisting social, economic and the political chaos in Somalia. We should not waste our energy and time on mere argument as to whether Maay language exacerbate the current political conditions. Some of the people in this forum use rhetoric nationalism for sustaining the legacy of previous dictator, Siad Bare, who solely responsible for the destruction of Somalia, particularly inter-reverine region. Somalia will continue to suffer mayhem and chronic order unless you acknowledge and approach the situation with atentive and pure mind.

 

MATKEY

[Dhimbil]

All due respect, why all this blare about May May, i don't see the significance, legalized or not, its still going to be a second language, because majority of us don't speak it.

 

However it would be interesting to see what the nomads have to say about the legit questions brought to the fore by sophist.

 

There are pacts of weakness (Federal State of Somalia), who is going to draw the map of the state borders, and what are their jurisdictions? What is the role of federal government? What is the role of these states? This system is going to be a source of all troubles. As you know this pact advances those groups that have established local administrations. What about those who haven't organized themselves or established their own clan administration? What does this pact say about them? Who decides, who is the state, and their borders/jurisdictions?

 

Since the whole federalism is going to be based on tribal areas, what is going to happen regions that two or more different clans inhabit; for example Sanaag or Mudug.?

These seem legit questions, lets hear it from our savvy political commentators of this site, bashe, samurai and his 'academia circles' ,hornafrique, and all the rest. There are other problems that have far worst implications than which dialect somalis speak. Lets unravel and focus on those issues mentioned above.

 

 

thanks

[Sophist]

I just woke up, and experience educates me that I normally conjure up murky statements which the reader find it mystifying to say the least- so I shall beg your pardon for anything that might need elucidation.

 

Oodweyne, Assumption is the result of acidy brain and as such I just leave those comments which you draw above to be nothing short of what tickled your fancy.

 

Maykey,

 

Brother, I have the highest regard for the riverine people; I have concur (to an extent) with your argument that the nomadic environment makes Maxaa tiri people warlike. But one wonders whether this is oversimplification?

 

You argue that I have brushed May people off as insignificant! That is really made me livid (a sentiment which I seldom get) because it is entirely untrue. Any tribe that resides in Somalia is equally significant to the rest of the gang.

 

My premise was that language difference will give rise to more divisions amongst our people. Besides, I am still not convinced that May is not Somali.

 

If I generated any misunderstandings, I beg your pardon; it was not my intention to procure any hostilities from your camp. With finer ferocity I give my apology.

 

Sophist

 

NB: Being fluent in English is not measure of one’s knowledge, it is just a language; it just currently happens to be the language of education. Besides, yours is cut above; don’t be dreary my boy; enjoy the ride.

 

Illimatic, my forcoming article will be dealing with the issue of Federalism.

[rudy-Diiriye]

if you go back to history, colonilism by europeans was built on the idea called "divide and rule". now today you see same partice happening life in many parts of africa and mainly skinyland!!!! sad part is, many of our kinesman is unsuppecting of this dirty ole game! thus, towing the lines of their blood tugs! and i mainly see nomads in the west who turn blue and black explaining to that this tug is not evil..!!

[A.J. Timacadeh]

rudy, the idea of colonialism was not ''divide and rule'' it was to occupy and force the natives to do whatever you want. the europeans had the idea that they were naturally higher ranked then the natives of the land they were occupying and ruling. therefore the felt they had the right to colonize these people and to use whatever resources the natives had for their own gain.

[Bakar]

I support Madkey's Idea because he talks about the facts and reality.

[Matkey]

Sophist;

 

what did you just call me? I read your childish and immature comments befor they were deleted by adm. Can't you engage in intellectual discussion without assasinating my character or calling me ****. as i said in my previous post, you need to learn how to restrain yourself!!! what happened to the educated guy who was destined to bring a change in Somalia? :confused:

 

 

ps: thanks for proving my point.

[Matkey]

Originally posted by Sophist:

How do I make myself clear. I love the Idea of Somalia as long as it is coming through me (******* ). We are the only people who can manage Somalia for that being a principle of nature nad just a false prediction.

 

Here I say again, likle it or not We, ******* , and I, *********** , are the LORDS OF TODAY AND TOMMOROW, Ever!

 

Never ever dream of what does not belong to you Mr. Maay Maay.

Apparently, civility is an alien concept to society whose way of life depends on ina adeer--dipossessing the livelyhood of other people--decieving people in the name of somalinimo,whilst they are the every people who dismentled the country.

 

Sophist, i am not qabiilste because i was raised in society who believes in self-reliance, as opposed to in adeer or ina abti, anyone who grew up in Somalia can confirm that. Sxb, xaqdarada ma iska soconeyso. Xaqa wuu soobixi doona mar ay ahaataba.

 

BTW, I honestly didn't know that your tribe existed untill i come to Italy.

 

ps: nin waliba dhulka uu leyehay wa layaqan.

[Baashi]

May I be so bold as to suggest to such luminaries of this site such as Mr Baashi, Mr Sumarai Warrior or Jack as he was known in another life-form in another forum, and last but not least to Mr SmithNwestern, to take leave of instruction from the book of somali political conduct of Mr Sophist in here, and finally see to it without much further ado, that you also declare your tribalistic ideology which is patently clear to any one who has brain to determine things, and please for love of god stop this kiddish game of yours in which you do attempt to move heaven and earth to disguise your similar hardcore convictions of Mr sophist kind, with this solipsistic intellectual veneer that you play with somali youngsters of this site,...I am sure you're much the wiser than that and you'll have no difficulty in deciphering the gist of my suggestions to you.

Indeed! I for one have no difficulty in deciphering that post. I have to admit though I've been under the impression that our differences were confined to the debate of ‘secession vs. unity’. Having carefully read this last post of yours, however, I’m now convinced that you are not only a man devoid of principle but also a one with shallow mind. It is your idea that we, nomads here, are a mere counter in a grotesque game. If the right pressure could be applied to us we would be cheerfully in favor of polemical, tribalistic quarrel. No sxb! Not at least all of us and not certainly me.

 

You are assuming of course that I’m under influence of the tribalistic ideology. The same would be true for anyone who opposes secession I suppose! In any case, yes my private prejudices are innumerable, and I really cherish the opportunity of getting them exposed so I can unlearn and relearn. I would appreciate if you can pinpoint them for me, since you are so sure of them, not the mere convenience of advancing your argument at my expenses but as a genuine generosity from your part. I’ve posted 300+ pieces and it won’t be very difficult for you to find some of them. I can imagine how difficult it would be for your likes, the cynics, to entertain the idea or even the possibility that a Somali would take ‘Somalinimo’ position sincerely, at this time and age, in the nomad politics. Perhaps H. L. Mencken was right when he said, I’m paraphrasing here, it is hard to believe that a man is telling the truth when you know that you would lie if you were in his place. Could it be that you might be projecting your thought processes onto others?

 

Let me agree with you the fact that Tribalism is ‘the’ center of gravity for Somali politics. I will add to that this premis: every clan has exaggerated notion of its relative political importance. This is true to all new political creations be it Puntland, Somaliland, or other Somali lands. In a culture where one’s place, status, and strength is based on the severity of revenge that would be carried out on one’s behave, nomadic politicking and how low it can go should be familiar to all of us – or at least the ‘informed’ nomads. There! We have something to agree. It doesn’t mean anyone and everyone from Somali descent subscribes to tribalism. For you to assume no nomad can engage political discussion without clannish chauvinism speaks volumes of your 'case'. It bears no sort of relation to the known facts, and is full of assumptions and hypotheses that every intelligent man must laugh at.

 

Now! Mr. Oodweyne if you honestly think those of us who happen to take the position of ‘Somaliweyn’ or opposed secession are bunch of ‘defeated’ cowards who run out of options to hide their shame and now find a solace under this ‘absurd’ idea of ‘Soomaalinimo’, you are quite a character – a one full of assumptions. You are just expressing your deep-seated animosity toward what you perceived as your eternal enemy. You are lucky to have this venue to discharge them. Beware though your premises won’t stand unquestioned or unchallenged. When and if challenged or questioned, would you be man enough to articulate them without winning or crying wolf?

 

I noticed many of the nomads dismiss ‘Somaliweyn’ as unachievable goal for foreseeable future. I agree with that premise, to some extent. But you seem to disdain it for other reasons, I gather. Here is a challenge for you Mr. Oodwayne: Why don’t you ask me all the questions you have about ‘Somaliweyn’, unity or ‘Soomaalinimo’. If you don’t have any and continue to air your nonsense in public then I am safe to assume that you are either troublemaker, delusional or clannish zealot with no case to make.

 

I have one single question for you if you care to answer it: Is Somaliland divisible? Why?

[AYOUB]

Baashi I would not include you in the group of people are tribalists but pretend not be, i think you are one of the ones who are not aware they are tribalists. On what basis would you want Somaliland to be devided, is it tribal?. What drives your attempts to dismiss everyone who writes anything positive about Somaliland as 'in the pocket' of Somaliland Govt?

 

If you were motivivated by anything other than what is obvious to us, you would not worry about people who live in peace and who getting on with each other and ignore the troubled souls from Mudug all the way to Kenya. When will your 'Somalinimo' talk about the people being forced to take Tanzanian nationality because of suffering or that is ok as long as they live the land for you?

 

Somaliland can not be devided because the people have voted for withdrawing the whole of it from the union. I'm sure you would have respected this vote if it went the other way.