Another Division: Do we need this now?

[Sophist]

Inanity and lack of boldness not to mention overwhelming foolishness is what made this bunch of hoodlum to agree the most foolhardy historic landmark; that is to devise one more divisive element in our plighted nation. As largely agreed in the circle of social thought and agreeably expressed by that French social thinker Toqueville when he elegantly said "the tie of language is perhaps the strongest and most durable that can unite mankind" perhaps he was on high horse when he said mankind, but assuredly, it is the singular strong strand that hold Somalis together in this precarious times. It is a bond that many patriots through out the annals of Somali history have risked life and limb to preserve their common language, their orthography and even to certain extent their communal dialect. In our new Somalia, a country that in our hopeful thoughts will reborn with forceful power and restore our past glory; and now before the birth, a ceremony has taken place to assure that expected new born will be stripped off all the necessary elements that would potentially make strongly united and altogether healthy. And why this one might ask? I tell you why, because the insidious Sinicism that some pseudo political leaders hold. It is clear iniquity to our nation, a nation that has been recognized to be homogeneous; a fact that is yet to be logically contested.

 

 

Language has never been an issue for Somalis (including our brothers from Bay and Bakool); but why complicate things now. Isn’t it enough that we are now cocooned in our tribal huts, are we now being divided by sub and Soomaali or May or Maxaatiri. This is clearly a breeding ground for disunity. This disunity will be demonstrated vividly in political, societal and education system since alleged cultural differences was legalized in private and public life by these hoodlums. Somali language should have been left as it was- if this is matter of justice and fairness then we should then introduce the other ethnic languages like Baajuuni, Barawani and Garre as a national language. Or perhaps not; because the later groups have no forceful political weight; of course relatively that is, comparing May people. If this is the case, then surely this is indeed a tribal bigotry. Why promote certain dialects and repress others because some have more political weight. Where is the justice and fairness in that?

 

 

Obviously it is nothing to do with justice; it is nothing short than derisory political maneuver. If these people have thought about the implications of this move then surely they would not have done it. Then again one wonders if they can not predict the consequence of such grave political plunder whether they are fit enough to educate the delicate newborn baby? This is a legitimate question; one that needs an urgent answer.

 

Astonishingly enough, or perhaps it is not surprising at all, whenever you read about these frivolous, politically immature leaders you feel as though you have a moral responsibility to politically challenge them; but 'reality' permeates into the mind seducing it to enjoy the little comfort we have in our bugger cozy life (I doubt any self-respecting Somali would be happy to remain ethnic minority; in the Somali language that translated to Inan Gumeed; no one would accept such horrendously vile name in Somalia; though we quite happily accept in our respective western countries) in our western cities we live while these politically imprudent rule our beloved country with their political recklessness.

 

I have had delicious discussions (political discussions that are so scrumptious you can eat the words for much needed soul nourishment) with many young thoughtful Somalis in London whose following of the recent happenings in the Somali Peace conference is unrivaled. Most of these bright eyed, educated youngsters have one thing in common; their distaste of what is unwinding currently; but all are not bold enough to go back home and bring change. They entertain the idea that when a government is established they will go back and start the wise institutions that will foster wise governing. Such happy prospect blurs their otherwise lucid minds. What grantees do they have that such establishments would be allowed under these pathologically power hungry men? Would they just allow themselves to be cured by such a pathological condition?

 

If the answer to those questions are yes; then indeed the responder needs to read history, not only the Somali history (though it is blurred with half-truths) but the universal history concerning power changing in feudal society. It seems these young men and women are all falling pry to their naïve minds; or perhaps they don't fathom the complexity of change. In either case they are quite in hopelessness predicament.

 

Similar sorts of debates took place in cafes of the western capital cities filled with high minded African democrats. Their intellectual debate over the ability of democratic institutions to foster social and political change soon after the African independence foundered. Any political minded person with realism and pragmatic flair knows that social change requires a revolution. These pathologically power hungry ‘leaders’ would not easily let go their ‘pots of honey’ for some ‘educated’ young men with sound alternative governing.

History teaches us that untrained (theologically trained; unless the society he is governing are enlightened enough and have a political will power; something we Somalis are in greater need) man with a power is like raging bull. Leap back to the leadership (great leader but dictator) of Alexander the Great to our recent history; the late dictator Mohamed Siyad Barre who famously (infamously if you might) said that "when I leave the country, I shall leave it without a people to govern". Alexander died in battle and his empire crumbled within years, Siyad died in Exile and the result is what we have now. This is the true ageless nature of these untrained men who are currently trying to establish government in a foreign soil.

 

Unless and until the young bright educated wise girls and boys go back to our needy people and engage with them we shall remain in this self-created Newtonian inertia.

 

Sophist

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

Salaan...

 

Language has never been an issue for Somalis (including our brothers from Bay and Bakool)

Frankly, as a person whose heritage hails from Bay and Bakool regions, I was saddened by those faction leaders {especially self-nominated RRA leaders} who are keen to fight with minor issues, especially that they want af Maay-maay to be a part of the official language. Af Maay-maay is Soomaali, period. And being Soomaali means af Maay-maay is already official, only being another dialect.

 

And I have a whole issues with the new constitution. First because of this 'federal' idea. Federal regions within Soomaaliya will not solve anything, only furthering the disunity we already have. Secondly, how do we define federal regions, since it is going to supposedly based on qabiil lands. Now, say, this tuulo in one federal region doesn't want to be part of that region because the majority of people in this tuulo doesn't share the region's majority tribe; and they opt to go where their tribe has a federal region. With many tuulo like this, I am fearing what is ahead of us. Confusion, among them.

 

I wrote before, and I will write again that some things should be better left alone, which to me are sacrosanct:

 

• Soomaaliya being a Muslim country
• Unity of Soomaaliya
• Soomaali language being the official
• Xamar being the capital--no one should or could claim that their group owns Xamar
• And the blue flag with the STAR

Every other issue, you can put on the table. But those above, for God's sake, leave them alone, baliis.

________________

 

Macsalaama!!

[Sophist]

Macruur Akhiyaar!

 

Akhii,What I have written up there was a quick reaction, after reading the so called agreement, my mind was jumping up and down. The whole thing is in shambles man.

 

Demarcation of regional boundaries;

 

 

There are pacts of weakness (Federal State of Somalia), who is going to draw the map of the state borders, and what are their jurisdictions? What is the role of federal government? What is the role of these states? This system is going to be a source of all troubles. As you know this pact advances those groups that have established local administrations. What about those who haven't organized themselves or established their own clan administration? What does this pact say about them? Who decides, who is the state, and their borders/jurisdictions?

 

Since the whole federalism is going to be based on tribal areas, what is going to happen regions that two or more different clans inhabit; for example Sanaag or Mudug.?

 

The power sharing concept at the conference which states that Somalis are "four and half" clans groupings that doesn't reflect the concept of federalism, because clan formula and federal concept (contradicts each other). How are they going to reconcile? This is an indication of failure. Though I am praying that it will not fail.

 

Why can we (younger generation) go back and contribute?

 

Anyhow, let us see how this saga ends.

[Gabbal]

I've always held the notion that right now what we need the most is a recognized gov, and that we coul've dealt with all the other ingredients at a latter time, but even i'm unsure right now.

 

MMA since Islam as the state religion is sacrosanct, why not Arabic as the second language?

[General Duke]

I agree with Horn,

 

Arabic should be the seconf official language because of our Islamic heritage and proximaty to the Arab world.

 

But English is quite important as many Somali's in the diaspora speak English and this should be taken into account.

 

With regards to Somali language, i think it is correct for the May May to be recognised it is part of our heratage.

[Sophist]

SnW my dear fellow, recognising a hetitage and introducing a dailect as another language is far two different issue.

 

May is not a language independent from Somali language. Both May and Maxaa tiri are Somali;consequently the introduction of dailect as as a parallel language to Somali is a disgrace.

 

If we are going to celebrate our heritige (as you put it) then why not introduce other languages (notice the diff between language and deilect)that other Somali tribes speak- Gare for example?

[Gabbal]

consequently the introduction of dailect as as a parallel language to Somali is a grace mistake.

Very intelligent observation

[Xalimo7]

Oh so funny, i was surprised for real , when i heard that one of the staging issue, was Af-Maay-Maay, damn it ,i think what the May-May community are doing is, Revenge, i heard that Sayind Mohamed C/ hassan, long time ago told them(May-May) to go and come back them speaking a good somali language then, so are they coming back with revenge, hell no i have no time to learn May-May, i can't even understand when they are on the May-May tv, any 1 of u ? please.

 

see you, am around dude

[miles-militis]

This I consider to have been a compromise and to embrace the ethnic diversity not only in culture but also in its linguistics aspects. Sure, there shall emerge downside and a good side to it, which shall impact adversely or otherwise the May community, but I do view it as a deal maker in these turbulent times. Whether May is simply a dialect or qualifies to be classified as a language is something that our friends from the regions concerned or others in the know could inform us of. Supportive in nature of anything affirmative in the Somali culture, I remain receptive to any effort that promotes tolerance in difference, embraces dissimilarity whilst celebrating diversity. I for one met with a few from the regions in question and when the May language is spoken I have to admit I have no clue as to what is being discussed. A weakness on the part of the Waryaa group I know, but is it a language, or is it a dialect are the question? None the wiser, but if it turns out to be a language, then we have gained something of value, not lost. If on the other hand, it is a dialect, then again we have not lost much, but simply recognised an already intricate ingredient of our otherwise rich, though rather simple culture which is a social development of sort in itself.

 

How many of us speak the May language, if I may ask? If none, then could we ask others here or elsewhere who speak the language and perhaps have them inform us as to its linguistic and intrinsic features as it is quite difficult to form an opinion, let alone resist (first reaction to anything outside one’s immediate contact) on the basis of not knowing.

 

It is an interesting debate, so keep it up.

Cheers.

[Sophist]

Samurai, it is great diservice to the intellect to two willingly perceptive people to agree upon everything, alas, i have indeed first time have to disagree with my esteemed fellow. Since it is quite late at night here in London, i shall post my stance on the sybject tommorow insha Allah.

 

Good Night.

[Matkey]

Originally posted by Sophist:

[qb]

[/May is not a language independent from Somali language. Both May and Maxaa tiri are Somali;consequently the introduction of dailect as as a parallel language to Somali is a grace mistakeqb]

Sophist:

MAAY is LANGUAGE which is spoken by 1/3 of Somali people. The people of this region are socio-culturally and linguistically different from the nomadic groups who live in central and northern Somalia. They speak the Reewin language locally known as Mai or Maay, as opposed to Maxa , which is spoken other parts of the country. Mai is to Maha as Spanish is to Portuguese; that is, they are not mutually intelligible. they are distinguished from nomads by their agro-pastoral mode of production and their settled mode of life which produced a distinct culture and social organization. Unlike the nomads, the settled communities of the inter- riverine regions have well organized social and political structures based on hierarchical authority. Hence, since people who speak this language are not nomads, one can argue that Maay language predates maxaatiri.

 

Are we really homogenous?

 

What prompted you to open this discussion? is it because Maay is recognized as language? You said: Maay is dialect and therefore it does not meet the criteria to be language. If that is the case then, why people whose language is maxaatiri can not understand Maay? Since you yourself can’t speak or understand Maay language who are you to decide whether it is language or dialect? I really would like to make this into debate over what constitutes dialect and language. I am not insinuating that I am anthropologist. However, for those of you who argue otherwise, i can induce you to see distinction between language and dialect. Most of you held tenaciously to the vestige of figment of you ancestors by which you perpetuate and disseminate the Saab and Samaale propoganda.

 

Speaking maxaatiri is not one of the criteria of being Somali and it sure does not restrain other’s right to exercise their language (note that i said language not dialect). So please spare me the Somalinimo if one of the elements of being Somali is legitimization of the language of one group and subduing the language of the other. Who the hell are you to decide what constitutes Somalinimo? Some of you are even suggesting Arabic to be the second language, which i find it very imposturous to even think of . First and foremost you should allow your own fellow muslim to have what is rightfully his or hers. I hope you know

 

Somali’s civil war emanated from the injustice, corruption, personal glorification of the previous government, and its acquisitiveness and violence to undertake and restructure the livelihood of others (Digil and Miriflle). These people suffered in the hands of perviuos regime led by Siad Barre. I don’t think anyone can dispute that Maay people had been underrepresented in the political sphere. By the way i really don't think Maay language needs a recognition from you and the likes. As a matter of fact you need them.

 

They are closing the library; therefore i will continue this discussion another time.

 

P.S. If you wish i can provide a reliable source pertaining t my argument---- which is Maay language predates maxaatiri. Remember it is not oral history which is used as means to subjegate and control those who are politically unconscoius about Somalia.

[miles-militis]

Sophist, you are good man to have on the side of the nationalist, anti-colonial camp mate. The advantage those of us in the northern hemisphere have over the Euro chaps is that we shall have the last say when all had been said and done while you are asleep.

 

More to the point mate, if you actually think about it, I was not disagreeing as I truly do not know much about the Maay language which prompted my reservation as to my stance on the issue. Instead as you could tell I shared a rather generic perspective regarding value in variations of cultures and languages.

 

However, it appears our friend Matkey whom I trust shall educate me at least of the Maay language though seemingly rather enraged by the mere suggestion of Maay being dialect shall keep you engaged.

 

Matkey – why not be a good chap and share with me at least (I do not know about the rest) some of the linguistic attributes, features and components of the Maay language which commands its being a language as suggested? Perhaps you could begin with examples of sentences in Maay?

 

Cheers.

[Matkey]

Originally posted by Xalimo7:

Oh so funny, i was surprised for real , when i heard that one of the staging issue, was Af-Maay-Maay, damn it ,i think what the May-May community are doing is, Revenge, i heard that Sayind Mohamed C/ hassan, long time ago told them(May-May) to go and come back them speaking a go.

 

If you put it that way, then was he a Somali hero? :confused: We are truely misinformed generation!! Some sees him as hero, while other percieved him as invader.

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

Salaan...

 

If you put it that way, then was he a Somali hero? We are truely misinformed generation!! Some sees him as hero, while other percieved him as invader.

Matkeey, widaay, is daji. Sayidka is a hero to ALL Soomaali. He had done some terrible things, but still his good vision of united Soomaaliya weights more. And I believe it is a pure myth that he came to Maay-speaking regions and persecuted them.

 

Again, one of the infamous more myths is the idea of sab and samaale. This is a pure conjured myth.

 

Matkey, brother, most of what you had written is true, among them being that Maay-speaking people who reside the inter-riverine areas of the country has had always been underrepresented because anywhere at any time did a person who hails from those regions had been granted the highest office, i.e. president or prime minister. The three other major clans had tasted this position, but not the fourth. And still they, simply being an honourable people, don't complain; Maay-speaking people don't fancy to declare independence or lament how mistreated they had been under a regime that no longer exists. Or blame a whole tribe or a whole geographical area and its residents. Not them. I solute them to that cause. Maay-speaking people endured a genocidal acts. The record is clear those people are the MOST major clan-belonging mistreated people in Soomaaliya. From the regime of Siyaad to Caydiid. They trashed those regions. Some committed unspokable genocide acts, reason among is why was once dubbed Baydhabo as the 'death city,' and this happened because a lack of aid that Caydiid did not allow the destined aid travel to their respective regions, and those regions did not have access to an ocean.

 

Matkeey, I agree with what Maay-speaking {as I am one of them, a Maay-speaker} people had been done to, and that is another topic, and I can continue that, but one thing is af Maay-maay is a dialect. It is a sister-language to af-Maxaa. Af-Maxaa is a dialect too, just like af-Maay. Remember, the constitution doesn't say the official languages are 'Soomaali AND Maay.' But it did declare the official language being Soomaali, defined Soomaali as Maay and Maxaa. Marka it is not that Maay should stand firmly against Soomaali. No. Both Maay and Maxaa are within Soomaali language.

 

I am saying all of those because I am a passionate Soomaali nationalist. My true allegiance rests with Soomaali and Soomaaliya, not my tribe or my sub-clan. If my tribe does wrong, I firmly stand against the aggression, just as if it was done to my tribe that I would against. I love being an honest Soomaali, who treats all Soomaalis as equal.

 

MMA since Islam as the state religion is sacrosanct, why not Arabic as the second language?

Horn, duqa I didn't know they relegated Carabi language into the third official language. That is sad. One more reason to disagree with this new constitution.

 

A constitution promoted by warlords. What do you expect then than a lot of pitfalls and negative consequences.

 

Sophist, duqa you keep saying why then isn't Garre dialect recognized. Well, Garre dialect is a part of Maay. Maay itself encompasses a lot of dialects, among them Garre and Tuni {I hope the Admin. doesn't mind the supposedly qabiilistic terms we are all using }.

 

And this idea of recognizing dialect-dialect is supported and endorsed by Itoobiya. One final reason not to agree anything Itoobiya endorses.

_________________

 

Macsalaama!

[Sophist]

Matkey, duqa waxaa laga yaabaa inaad ifahmi weydey markaan afka qalaad wax ku qorey. Haatan bal aan iskun dayo inaan ra'yigeyga aan ku dhiibto luqada aan kahadleyno.

 

Shakhsi ahaan, aniga damiirkeygu isiin mayo inaan inkiro dhibaatooyinkii loogeystey qabaa'ilka kala duwan ee Soomaaliyeed, qaasatan dadka lahjada May-ga ku hadla.

 

Waxaa lagama maarmaan ah (sida uu ka dhawaajiyey saaxiibkey MMA) in aan lagu mashquulin waxyaabihi hore inoo soo marey oo ee kaliya cashar taariikheed laga qaato horena loo socdo.

 

Intaas markaan sidii dalan u riddey, hadana aan dulucda hadalkeyga usoo dhaco.

Luqad waxa layiraahdo asal iyo saldhig ayey leedahay. Waxaa lagama maarmaan ah markii aan si cilmiyeysan isugu dayeeyno inaan ka wada xaajoono mawduuc sidan xasaasi u ah, in aano yeelano marjic aan iskula noqono oo noo noqda asal. Dhalinyara nimadeyda ayaa waxay iisahleysaa inaan waxyaabo badan oo taariiqi ah ama cilmi soomaliyeed ah aanan ulaheyn masaa'il fara badan, laakiin waxaa muhiim ah inaan taas markaan ogaado aan unoqdu kutubtii laga qorey taariikhda Soomaliyeed.

 

Anigu waxaan kuu celinayaa buug cilmi ah, oo runtii kahadlayaa luqada Soomaaliyeed iyo dhaqanka umadeena. Anigu ma aaminsani in Bay iyo Bakool dadka degaaye ey ka dhaqan duwan yihiin Dadka dega Sool Sanaag Hawd tixraac ahaan. Baydhabo waan kunooladey qadar yar oo kamid ah intaan joogey ceelkii Soomaliya ahaa, hadana trujumaan uma aanan baahanin markaan lahadlayey wiilashii aan isku aragney Qansax dheere. Buuga layiraahdo Politics, Language and Thougth, The Samali Experiance oo uu qoreyt David Laitin Akhri, insha Allah waxaan kahadlayo markaas ayey kuu cadaan doontaa walaalkiis.

 

MMA,

Walaal Garraha luqadoodu aad ayey uga duwan May-ga. Anigu, inkastoon cilmi baaris dheer aanan kusameyn maadadan hadana, aragti iyo ladhaqan yar oo aan yeeshey dadkaas ayaa ii tibaaxay inaan gaaro go'aanka ah iney kala duwan yihiin.

MMA, it is good to see you here, send me a private MSG i shall email you an article i am writing on federalism.

 

Sophist