Exposing the Neo-salafism (Saudi Salafism)

[sahal]

plus this man by Sh. Mohammed Shaqra. is majhul(unknown) no one has heard of him, or this book you speak off! maybe you can give us a brief introduction

This is clear evidence that you're new to this group. if you need more information about this group just PM me i will provide you in detail.

 

Mohamed Shaqra Sxb, is Jordanian Sheikh and he is one of the closest Sheikhs to late Sh. Albani.

 

His famous book "Hiya as-Salafiya Nisbatan wa 'Aqidatan wa Manhajan" (It is Salafiya as an Appellation, Creed and Methodology)" is a one of the Treasures of the SALAFIYAH JADIDAH.

 

The first time I heard this book was around 7 years ago from 4 cassets called "HIWAARUN FIL MANHAJ" "Debate in the methodology" by: Sheikh Abdiraxmaab Abdulkhaliq from KUWAIT who regarded hismself as SALAFI on one side and Sh. Mohamed Shaqra and Sh. Albani on the other side.

 

To summarize these cassetes: Sheikh A/rahman critisized the contents of this book (as we didi here) Sheikh Shaqra then raised the issue to Sh. Albani and Sh. Albani defended the book and its author (Sh. Shaqra) and criticized Sh. A/rahman abdulkhaliq and Sh. Salman Al-awda accusing them to be IKHWAANS (I know in Egypt is a crime to be IKHWAN but outside Egypt :confused: ),

I remember one of the attenders defended Sh. Salman saying he is not IKHWAN but Sh. Albani responded him we're talking about the MANHAJ, Is his MANHAJ ikhwani or no? and the defender said even his Manhaj isn't IKHWANI etc.

 

In this cassetes Sh. Shaqra defendig himself and his book (infront of Sh. Albani) by saying he didn't read my book very well, he read half of the sentces etc. but Sh A/rahman is reading whole the sentences and sometimes whole the paragraph and asking the audience if he cut some words or not completed the sentences etc.

 

One of the most significant parts of these cassetes was when Sh. A/rahman breifing the profile of Sh. Mohamed Shaqra, he mentioned a poem that Sheikh Shaqra was praising to Saddam Hussein during IRAN-IRAQ war and it was really laughable.

 

So, Sxb. I surprised when you said I don't know Sh. Shaqra and his book while your group regard this book the principle of the salafiyah.

[sahal]

Silent Sister, You Welcome I'm very happy to discuss with you about this sect, since i know them more than 10 years. So, don't hesitate to ask me any question about them not only you but anyone else who wnat to discover them.

 

Regarding the book (and many other articles you can find this website: http://www.islamicawakening.org/index.php?

 

Finally has Salafi-on-line ever show us this FATWA or he was only collecting opposite FATWAS from their website and yet he is accusing me one-sided :cool: .

 

I recomended him to read this FATWA in order to keep his tongue off from Sayid Qutub and other ULUMAS.

 

5. Legal Verdict Regarding Sayyid Qutb

Ibn Jibreen

Article ID: 23 | 178 Reads

 

 

 

Kingdom of Saudi Arabia

Office of the Presidency of Islamic Research and Legal

Verdicts

 

Question:

Some youth call Shaykh Sayyid Qutb a heretic and prohibit the reading of his books, and they say a similar statement regarding Hasan al-Banna, as they also say regarding some of the scholars that they are Khawarij. Their argument is that [they do this] in order to 'expose the errors [of these men] to the people,'. even though [these youth] are until now [only] students [of knowledge]. I hope for a response so that doubt may be removed from us and others, [and] so that this [phenomenon] will not spread.

 

Response:

All praise belongs to Allah alone. To proceed: It is impermissible to [unjustly] call the Muslims heretics or wicked as is evidenced by the statement of the Prophet SAW "Whoever says to his brother 'O enemy of Allah,' and he is not such but that it returns back to him." While in [another] hadith 'Whoever calls a Muslim an infidel it returns back to one of them.' While in another hadith: "A man passed by another while he was doing a sin and he said to him, 'By Allah, Allah will not forgive you.' So [Allah] said: 'Who is he who can pass judgment on my behalf that I will not forgive so and so, I have forgiven him and have nullified your deeds.'"

 

With this I say, Sayyid Qutb and Hasan al-Banna are among the scholars of the Muslims and among the people of da'wa. Allah has brought benefit by them and through them He has guided many people. They both have efforts [for Islam] which should not be denied. For this reason Shaikh Abdul-Aziz ibn Baz interceded on behalf of Sayyid Qutb when the order for his execution was given. [ibn Baz] was gentle in his intercession, but President Gamal [Abdel Nasser] did not accept [ibn Baz's] intercession, may Allah send upon him [i.e. Abdel Nasser] what he deserves. When both men [i.e Hasan al-Banna & Sayyid Qutb] were killed, each was referred

to as a martyr, as each was killed unjustly. This is borne witness to by those close [to them] as well as by the general public. As it was widely spread in the papers and books without anyone ever objecting. Moreover, the scholars have received their books [with acceptance]. No one has attacked them for more than the [last] twenty years. If some [heresy proceeded] from them, then [these mistakes] are

similar to an-Nawawi, as-Suyuti, Ibn al-Jawzi, Ibn 'Atiyah, al-Khatabi, al-Qastalani and the likes of many of them. I have read what Shaikh Rabi al-Madkhali has written in his refutation of Sayyid Qutb and I found that he has placed statements where they do not exist. For this reason Shaikh Bakr Abu Zaid, may Allah perserve him, refuted him. Likewise, [al-Madkhali's] unjust attacks of Shaikh 'Abdur-Rahman ['Abdul-Khaaliq] and his [twisting 'Abdur-Rahman 'Abdul-Khaaliq's words] in order to find errors which would make ['Abdur-Rahman 'Abdul-Khaaliq appear] misguided, even though [shaikh Rabi] befriended him for a lengthy period of time and he never found any such errors [in the past].

 

And the eye of pleasure sees every fault insignificant,

But the eye of hatred always finds fault.

 

Dictated by

Abdullah ibn Abdur-Rahman ibn Jibreen

26/2/1417 AH

[Salafi_Online]

first

 

here are all the salafi websites,this character and his book is no where to be found, "www.salaf.dk" i do no know him nor do my friends, i have made an extensive research and "ziiiiiiiiiiiip"

 

second,

is this JIhad pertaining to Defencing Jihad or Offence? as you know there are different rules for each! Im sure you know this, since you sat/studied with the student of BIn BAAZ

 

as for JIhad and wheter we need an imam or not, Albani wrote a marvellous piece on this topic, (im sure hes not NeoSalafi in your views "

 

third

 

i never once hid anything, but i gave you what the scholars said, concerning certain individuals, and just like one of the other nomads tried to defend Innovator sayid Qutb with a letter attributed to the Noble shaykh Abu Bakr Zaid, who himself admited it was stolen from him, nor did he give permission for distribution, nor did he sign the phamplet!

 

now you Use Shaykh Ibn Jibreen may Allah may have mercy on him, and perserve him to defend the innovators, then once again you have neglected the response of the noble mayshaykh concerning this issue and how the rest of the scholars adviced ibn jibreen to take back his words and that he has errored concerning his matter! why did u neglect this oh Sahal,

 

Fourth

 

give the sister the exact web page,what you gave is not sufficient! it will take her forever to find the exact article! i can do it myself but i wanna see if you are an honest man, who is really doing this for the sake of Allah, or merely ploting and evil plot! you have the benefit of the doubt my friend!

 

fifth

 

for those who can read somali, and like somali lectures, please visit the following website

 

http://www.ahlulxadith.com/

 

Ps.

again brother if you wish to expose the NEW Salafi do not hide information that is widely available to everyone!

[sahal]

first here are all the salafi websites,this character and his book is no where to be found, "www.salaf.dk" i do no know him nor do my friends, i have made an extensive research and "ziiiiiiiiiiiip"

I told you, you're new member and your friends too if you don't know Sh. Mohamed Shaqra.

 

 

never once hid anything, but i gave you what the scholars said, concerning certain individuals, and just like one of the other nomads tried to defend Innovator sayid Qutb with a letter attributed to the Noble shaykh Abu Bakr Zaid, who himself admited it was stolen from him, nor did he give permission for distribution, nor did he sign the phamplet!

"Innovator Sayid Qutub" Don't you fear ALLAH, do you know that Sheikh Albani himself was encouraging youths to read his TAFSEERUL QURAAN book as well as "MILESTONE" book.

 

Don't you know he was excuted becuse of his refusing to praise and accept an oppressor ruler (Jamal A/nasir orders), don't you know that just before his excution he was offered everything he wants including Minister of Religious affirs if he withdraw his opposition of the government and allow man made rules (as the Quraysh did to our prophet S.A.W.),

don't you know his golden respond when they offered him everything, he said

" I will not use to write the oppressor orders to the same finger which I witness the ONNESS of ALLAH " (he meant in the prayer - TASHAHUD -)

 

Is this man deserves to call as INNOVATOR. and when I defend such men you're saying me FEAR ALLAH, who should ferar ALLAH me or the attacker those who sold their lives and their wealth to their LORD.

 

Salafi-on-line call me defender of innovators or any other name you like I will defend all noble ULUMA and MUJAAHIDIIN and DAWA GROUPS, SALAF and KHALAF. and i will also expose the reality of your group in order to prevent the youths to fall the trap that you've fallen.

 

 

Regarding the website i'm sorry i just gave the HOME but this is the exact link where she can find the article and i'm sure she will not get more excerpts thatn i mentioned, the only way that she can see whole the book is to buy from NEO SALAFI bookshops.

 

 

http://www.islamicawakening.org/viewarticle.php?articleID=24&pageID=401&pageID=386&

[sahal]

This is another gift for Salafi-on-line in order to keep his tongue off from Sayid Qutub and other noble ULUMA.

 

 

5. The Golden Letter From al-'Allamah Bakr Abu Zaid to Rabee' al-Madkhali

 

 

The respected brother, Shaikh Rabee bin Hadee Al-Madkhali,

 

Assalamu Alaikum wa ramhatullahi wa barakatuh…

 

I draw your attention to your request from me to read the book attached: “Adwa’ Islamyyah ‘Ala ‘Aqeedat Sayyed Qutb Wa Fiqrih.†(Islamic lights on the Aqeedah & Ideas of Sayyed Qutub)… Are there any notes against it? And whether these notes mean that this project should be disregarded and never be narrated again? Or Is it considered from which that can be edited and qualified to be printed and distributed to serve as a reward for you in the day of Judgment, and as a guidance to those whom Allah wills from his servants. Thus I say the following:

 

1- I looked into the first page where the index of topics are listed, and I found topics against Sayyed Qutb, may Allah have mercy on him, that collects the basics of kufr, atheism, heresy, belief in Wahdat Al-Wujood [1], the saying that the Quran is created, the saying that it is permissible for other than Allah to legislate, the exaggeration in glorifying the attributes of Allah, not accepting the Mutawatir Ahadeeth, doubts in matters of Aqeedah that one must be certain about it, making takfeer on communities …etc from such topics that makes the believer’s hair stand on end. I felt sorry for the Muslim scholars around the world who did not pay attention to such destructive matters. Then I wondered why with such destructive matters, we find the spread of the books of Qutb on the horizon like the spread of the sun, the common people benefit from them, and even you (Rabee Al-Madkhali) in some of your writings. Therefore, I started comparing the topics with the contents. I found that the contents prove the opposite of other contents; and these topics, in general, are some provocative topics to withdraw the attention of the regular reader to bash Sayyed (Qutb), may Allah have mercy on him. I hate for you, me and all of the Muslims (to fall into) the zones of sin…It is from deception when a person talks about the good in front of whom he hates.

 

2- I looked, and found that this book lacks: the basis of the scholarly research, the Manhaj of criticism, the trust of quoting (from others sources), the trust of knowledge, (and) not transgressing on others.

 

Regarding the etiquette of dialogue, the goodness of the approach, and the strength of introducing the material, then the above have nothing to do with this book by any mean… the proofs are:

 

First, I saw that you depended in quoting old editions of the books of Sayyed Qutb, like the books: Fee Thilaal Al-Qur’an, Al’Adalah Al Ejtima’eyyah, while knowing, as in the margin of page 29 and other (places), that there are some revised editions that came afterwards. It is obligatory according to the basics of criticism and the trust of knowledge to criticize - if it was about the contents of the last edition of any book because the changes in it (i.e. the last edition) abrogates the previous ones. This thing, inshallah, is not hidden from your basic information, but it is probably a mistake of a student who prepared this information for you who was not aware of that. It is well known that there are many similar situations for the people of knowledge, for example the book, Al Rooh, of Ibn Qayyim, when many scholars looked into it they said: it is probably issued during his early life. This also happened in many cases. The book (of Sayyed Qutb) Al’Adalah Al Ejtima’yah was the first (book) that he (Sayyed Qutb) authored about Islamic issues.

 

Second, the topic in the index of this book: Sayyid Qutb allows other than Allah to legislate, made my hair stand on end. I rushed to this topic before anything else. What I found out is just a single quote from lots of lines in his book, Al’Adalah AlEjtima’yah. His sayings do not confirm this provocative topic. Let us suppose that there is a general or vague sentence, why do we turn it into a takfeeri (blasphemy) matter against him to destroy what Sayyed Qutb based his life upon and what he dedicated his pen for: the da’wah towards the monotheism of Allah “in ruling and legislating,†rejecting the man made laws, and confronting those who committed that (legislating and ruling by other than Allah’s rule). Allah loves justices and fairness in every thing; and I do not see inshaallah except that you are about to go back to justice and fairness.

 

Third: One of the provocative topics is your topic: Sayyed Qutb believes in Wahdat Al-Wujood. Verily, Sayyed Qutb, may Allah have mercy on him, said something not clear (that might make the reader think that he believes in Wahdat Al-Wujood) using the style (of literature) in commenting on Surat Al-Hadeed, and Surat Al-Ekhlaas, and based upon it the accusation that he believes in Wahdat Al-Wujood was made. You did something good when you quoted his saying in commenting on Surat Al-Baqarah, and his (Sayyed Qutb) clear rejection to the idea of Wahdat Al-Wujood. From these quotes (Sayyed Qutb wrote): “and from here we find that there is nothing in the true Islamic ideology called the idea of Wahdat Al-Wujood.†To add, in his (Qutb) book: "Muqawwimat At-Tasawwur Al-Islami†there is a clear response to those who belief in Wahdat Al-Wujood. Therefore, we say may Allah forgive Sayyid Qutb for these vague statements that he expanded upon using his literal style; and what is vague does not overcome the clear cut statements from his saying.

 

Thus, I wish that you rush into deleting this hidden takfeer of Sayyed Qutb, and I feel sorry for you.

 

Fourth, I say clearly to you with all respect, that under these topics: the contrary of what Sayyed Qutb commented on the meaning of La Ilaha Illah Allah, to the scholars and the people of language; and that he (Qutb) is not clear about (tawheed) Ar-Ruboobiyah and Al-Uloohiyyah. I say to you, my beloved, that you have destroyed, without making sure, all of what Sayyed (Qutb), may Allah have mercy on him, confirmed from the aspects of Tawheed and what it necessates and confirms, which occupied the major aspect of the long life of Sayyed Qutb. All what you (Rabee Al-Madkhali) said is nullified by one word: that the monotheism of Allah in legislation and ruling is from the necessities of the word of Tawheed. Sayyed, May Allah have mercy on him, emphasized on this a lot when he saw the corrupted courage to dismantle the legislations of Allah from courts and other places, and replacing it with man-made laws. Without a doubt, this is a great courage (the courage of changing the rules of Allah) that the Ummah never experienced before 1342 Hijri.

 

Fifth: from the topics of the index: “Sayyed Qutb confirms the belief that the Quran is created, and that the speech of Allah is just the willâ€â€¦ When I went back to the pages that talk about that, I did not find a single letter where Sayyed Qutub, may Allah have mercy on him, declared this saying: “The Quran is created.†How do you easily accuse with these takfeeri matters? The only sentence that I noticed is his (Qutb) saying: “They cannot author from it—the Muqat’ah letters—a book similar to this book because this book is created by Allah and not by the humansâ€â€¦ There is no doubt that this sentence is wrong, but does this sentence make us rule that Sayyed Qutb confirms the kuffri saying that the Quran is created? O Allah I cannot tolerate the burden of this! This reminded me of a similar saying of Shaikh Muhammad ‘Abdulkhaliq ‘Atheemah, may Allah have mercy on him, in his book’s introduction: Studies on the style of the Noble Quran, that is printed by the Islamic University of Imam Muhammed bin Sa’ud. Do we accuse all people by the saying that the Quran is created. O Allah No.

 

What we mentioned so far is sufficient in talking about the subjective perspectives, and this is the important matter.

 

Talking about other perspectives:

 

1- The original copy of this book lies in 161 pages written by hand. These writings are different. I do not know of a single page written by you as usual, unless your handwriting differed from usual, or I missed up something, or you gave the job about Sayyed Qutb to some of the students, and each student wrote what he found under your supervision, or by your dictation. Therefore, I cannot confirm that this book belongs to you except by what you wrote on it that it is authored by you, and that is enough in considering it to belong to you.

 

2- Even though there are differences in the handwritings, there is a common trend; This book has the common trend of the disturbing manner, the continuous anger, the same jump on the sentence to generate huge mistakes, rushing into conclusions where there is a possibility to prove otherwise, and depending on the vague sentences and leaving the clear ones, which is a solid rule that do not accept any argument about it….This is considered as betraying (violating) the Manhaj of criticism (named): Al’Haydah Al’Elmiyah.

 

3- Regarding the style of literature, if we were to compare it with the style of Sayyed Qutb, then this style is of descending style. The style of Sayyed (Qutb) is high. If we considered it as your (Rabee’s) style, then it is very elementary, and does not suit a student of knowledge who has great degrees. So there should be a balance between the literal taste, the ability of using the language and clearly presenting the matter, and the beauty of presenting; or otherwise the pen should be broken ( i.e. otherwise do not bother writing it).

 

4- The common trend was the trend of anger and frightening which overtook the scientific Manhaj of criticism, thus your response lacked the etiquettes of dialogue.

 

5- This book from its beginning tells the end has an offensive trend and narrowness in mind and lack of patience in the sentences… why?

 

6- This book creates a new hizbiyah that establishes the trend of making tahreem here, and nullifying it there; and to call this a bid’ah and that person a Mubtadi’, to call this deviancy and that person a devient… whithout enough proofs. This also generates ghuroor (i.e. deception) of being religious, being proud to the extent that when one of them does that he (thinks that he) gets rid of a huge burden from his back; and that he is saving the Ummah from falling from an edge; that he is considered of a high example of Wara’ (fearing Allah) and gheerah (jealousy) on the rulings of Shari’ah. This (Judging) without making sure, is a way of destruction, even if it is considered as a high constructed building, its destiny is destruction and disappearance with the winds.

 

These are six aspects that this book enjoys, which made it not enjoyable. This is what I see regarding what you requested. I apologize for being late to respond to you, but I used not to read the books of this man (Sayyed Qutb), even though it is popular amongst the people. However, the dangerous remarks that you talked about made me do lots of readings into his books, and I found in his books many good things, a great faith, clear truth, exposing the plans of the enemies of Islam, and some mistakes in the contents and saying some things that I wish he never said. He nullifies lots of these things in other places, and to be perfect is hard. This man was a great writer and a great criticizer, and then he moved towards serving Islam through the great Quran, the noble Sunnah, and the beautiful Seerah. This shaped his attitude regarding the issues of his time. He insisted on his attitude (to continue what he is doing) for the sake of Allah. He also clarified the issues about his past. It was requested from him to write some words of apology, and he said his faithful and famous word, that "I will not use the finger which I raise for shahad’ah (i.e calling to Tawheed) to write something against Tawheed…" or a word close to this.

 

Therefore, the obligation of everyone is to make du’a for him that Allah forgive his sins, to benefit from his knowledge, to clarify his mistakes, and that his mistakes do not make us not benefit from his knowledge, or to abandon his books. Consider, may Allah protect you, his situation like the situation of those of the salaf like Isma’eel Al-Harawi and Al-Jilaani, and how Shaikh-ul-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah defended them, even though they fell into many awful mistakes, because the basis of their approach was to defend Islam and the Sunnah. Look to the (book), “Manazil Alsa’ereenâ€, and you will find strange things that cannot be accepted; however, you find Ibn Al-Qayyim, may Allah have mercy on him, making excuses for him and not accusing him, as he clarified it in the book “Madarij As-Saalikeen". I also expanded on this matter in the book “Classifying the people between doubts and certainty,†and I put some rules regarding it.

 

In conclusion, I advise the brother in Allah, not to print this book “Adwa’ Islamiyyah..â€. It is not permissible for this book to be distributed or printed because of what it has of the exaggeration, and the training of the youth of the Ummah to slander the Ulama’ (scholars), and to put down and disregard their virtues. Forgive me, may Allah bless you, if I was harsh in my sentences, but it is because of what I saw from your exaggeration, because I want the good for you, and because your eagerness to know what I have about him. This is what my pen wrote, and may Allah correct the way of all of us..

 

Wa assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi Wa barakatu….

[Salafi_Online]

Tayyib Sahal now that the audience knowns your source they can examine it for themselves!

 

I dont have a problem with you Exposing anything, if your intentions are in the correct place, which im sure they are! at at rate its necessarity that you provide the whole picture not bids and pieces of it!

 

few question for you to ponder over

 

(1) this hijad, is it pertaining to offencing jihad or defensing jihad?

 

(2) Ilm Waqica, did you read Albanis book on this topic?

 

(3) Ibn Jibreen defences of Hasan ALbaana and Sayid Qutb, we know this but why have you neglected this

 

http://www.al-ibaanah.com/ebooks.php?EID=15

 

(4) in response to Shaykh ABu Bakr Zaid why have you neglected the following:

 

. Shaikh Zaid bin Muhammad bin Haadee al-Madkhalee(one of the leading scholars in KSA) asked him about these papers and so Abu bakr zaid reviled those who spread these papers. And also in front of others, [the Shaikh] made excuses and said that these papers were stolen from him and were spread without his consent and satisfaction.

 

. Secondly: Shaikh Ali al-Halabi(student of shaykh Albani) – may Allaah preserve him – informed me that he asked Shaikh Bakr Abu Zaid in his own house about this discourse and he said, "By Allaah these were words that I had written and I was hoping to send them to Shaikh Rabee’ however, I put them away since they were in need of improvement. However, they were then taken from my office without my knowledge and distributed. And I do not know who did that."

 

 

. And up until now, he has not officially and openly acknowledged them, and neither is he happy about them being printed and distributed, and hence, these papers are tantamount to a foundling (abandoned baby), with no legal father (as its claimant).

 

 

. It is deserving for every sensible person that he should become ashamed on account of them, because the very one to whom they are attributed refuses to acknowledge them. And it is also deserving for the one who to whom they are attributed to be ashamed on account of them,

 

. Stated Shaikh Usaamah al-Qoosee(may allah perserve him(student of shaykh Muqbil):

 

Shaikh Rabee’ was taken by surprise, especially when he did not receive a refutation from Shaikh Bakr, so he was taken by surprise by this discourse entitled ‘al-Khitaab adh-Dhahabee’ (The Golden Discourse), which had been spread in every part of the world. Shaikh Rabee’ then got on the phone with Shaikh Bakr and said, "What is this?!" He replied, "By Allaah, I do not have any knowledge about this matter. About this, I say may Allaah curse the one who distributes this discourse."

 

Cassette Lecture.

Explanation of the book of Shaikh Rabee’ ‘The Methodology of the Prophets in Calling to Allaah’

(15th-19th/Rabee’ al-Awwal/1421H)

 

Sahal dont you fear the curse of Allah may befall you???? :confused:

 

and to put the nails in the coffin

 

Fatwaa of Shaikh Nasir ud-Deen al-Albani

 

The Muhaddith and Imaam, al-Albani – rahimahullaah – said, commenting upon the book ‘al-Awaasim Mimmaa Fee Kutub Sayyid Qutub Min al-Qawasim’ of Shaikh Rabee’ bin Haadee, " Everything with which you have refuted Sayyid Qutb is the truth (haqq) and is correct (sawab) . And it will become sufficiently clear from this refutation to every one who has read anything from " The Islamic Heritage" that Sayyid Qutb had no knowledge of the Usool (fundamentals) or the Furoo’ (subsidiary matters) of Islaam. So may Allaah reward you with the best of reward, O brother Shaykh Rabee’ ibn Haadee for fulfilling the obligation of explaining and uncovering his ignorance and deviation from Islaam."

 

So Sahal im sure your your intentions are righ But brother due show both sides of the story, dont be selective, aite!!!!!!!!

[sahal]

Salafi-on-line i'm happy that you come on board, First of all

(1) this hijad, is it pertaining to offencing jihad or defensing jihad?

have you seen the book where Sh. Shaqra differentiating between the offence and defensive Jihad, if you can find his book we'll assume that he meant the offensive jihad and not defensive jihad, but i'm sure yu'll not find it, thus he meant what he meant and in the cassetes he and sheikh Albani defended the pricipales of this book while Sh. A/rahman giving evidences from Kitab & Sunnah the obligation of Jihad.

 

secondly what would you say the IRAQ WAR FATWA from your website(salafipublication) is this fatwa also stolen from the Sheikh or what?

 

Finally, there is Somali saying which SAYS "Waxaan kaa celinayaa ma xeeradaa salkeedaa?"

 

Is all what i'm preventing you not to insult our noble ULUMA and MUJAAHIDIIN and DAWA GROUPS?

 

Sxb, Insult who you want to insult but i'm just remembering you these TWO QURAN VERSES in SUURATU ZUMAR

"Verily, you will die and verily they too wiil die. Then, on the day Resurrection you will be disputing before your Lord" (39, 30-31)

 

Sxb if this is not prevent you their insult i'm sorry to tell you no one else can help you.

 

And remember those who gave you the justification to insult them (Like Al-Madkhali and his alike) they will not be with you that day they will have their own burden.

[Salafi_Online]

Seriously though, What did he mean ? My friend no where does it state that its defensive or offensive jihad, but you wanted us to believe that the shaykh meant the jihad, devoid of any clarification!… furthermore this Cassette of yours can not be used as prove, you expect the audience and I to take your word for it?thats silly.. If you wish to remain in this business of refuting others, it’s essential you grasp the art of rebutting! i advice you to do more research so you know your subject before you started copying and pasting materials!

 

your write;

secondly what would you say the IRAQ WAR FATWA from your website(salafipublication) is this fatwa also stolen from the Sheikh or what?

where's the beef?!? the Shaykh obviously meant "Iraqi Society" this becomes evident when you read the next few lines! He uses term “Iraqi societyâ€! In addition the noble Shaykh Said, “ NO, But Supplicate to Allah that he delivers the Muslims amongst the people of Iraq and that he relieves them of their distress . This is what I can add now. “

 

this itself refutes your claims..So where is the deficiency?any sensible person can see the Shaykh Meant “Iraqi Societyâ€, nice try though!

 

And remember those who gave you the justification to insult them (Like Al-Madkhali and his alike) they will not be with you that day they will have their own burden.

Only Allah knows the unseen and truly we seek his aid, those who you defend may admonish you on that day, saying,†Why were you defending my falsehood when I was in plain error “ I shall not remain silent of those who distort Islam from within irregardless of how you promote them!

[sahal]

Seriously though, What did he mean ? My friend no where does it state that its defensive or offensive jihad, but you wanted us to believe that the shaykh meant the jihad, devoid of any clarification!

You differentiated these two kinds of Jihad and i just quoted it, but the Sheikh has not deferentiated he said clearly

 

"The best jihad today ... is to hold back from jihad." (p.204) n Arabic ( AFDHALUL JIHAD AL-YOWM HUWA TARKUL JIHAAD )

 

 

furthermore this Cassette of yours can not be used as prove, you expect the audience and I to take your word for it?thats silly.. If you wish to remain in this business of refuting others, it’s essential you grasp the art of rebutting! i advice you to do more research so you know your subject before you started copying and pasting materials!

Forget my cassetes look the excerpts of my second thread :rolleyes:

 

 

where's the beef?!? the Shaykh obviously meant "Iraqi Society" this becomes evident when you read the next few lines! He uses term “Iraqi societyâ€! In addition the noble Shaykh Said, “ NO, But Supplicate to Allah that he delivers the Muslims amongst the people of Iraq and that he relieves them of their distress . This is what I can add now. “

 

this itself refutes your claims..So where is the deficiency?any sensible person can see the Shaykh Meant “Iraqi Societyâ€, nice try though!

First of all weather the Sheikh meant or not he said, the translater changed to "Iraqi Society" not the sheikh as he made clear in the footnote.

 

The defencies are countless here are some of them:

 

1. Firstly not all Iraqi society is Muslim. Rather, amongst them is the Marxist ....and there are Muslims amongst them ...and amongst them are the Raafidah....

 

Is there any 100% Sunni, Salafi (according your groups concept) Muslim country in this world?

 

2. Secondly, we have rulers and those who have authority over us, and it is obligatory to give them hearing and obedience :mad:

 

Who do we give hearing and obedience? FAHAD, MUBARAK, SABBAH etc who supported enemies of ALLAH to kill the MUSLIMS and allowed their armies to use their LAND, SEA ands AIR to destroy AFGHANISTAN & IRAQ MUSLIM people.

 

 

3. I also say that those who call to cutting off from the products of America and Britain and others (i.e boycotting them), then those people have a resemblance to the Rafidah ...... :mad:

 

If i show this FATWA to non Muslim person I am sure he/she would not believe that these fatwa came from muslim person let alone one who regard himself as Sheikh or AHLUL ILMI as you called them.

 

I know you agree this with the Sheikh because you told us earlier that Nothing wrong with Macdonald if it's HALAL :cool:

 

4. Thirdly, the banner of fighting in Iraaq, who si carrying it/ it is carried by Saddam Hussein at-takreetee ..... and Baathi party is secularist, disbelieving, heretical.

 

Somali saying says " HASHU MARKAY DIIDAYSO MEEL AY KU XOQATO MA WAYDO "

 

AS There are no seculars in Saudia, in Egypt, syria, Turkey, Somali Indonesia enz. or there is difference between the seculars in Saudia and those in IRAQ :confused:

 

5. So whoever said O ALLAH save the Muslim Society or Iraqi society (as the translater says that the Sheikh meant), then he has erred. this suupplication of his reaches even the Marxist and the Communist ....

 

According this we shouldn't say O ALLAH save the Muslim society in Somalia, because this reaches Marxist, Communists, Warlords, Faay cali ENZ.

 

Secondly the Sheikh contradicted what he already mentioned i.e in the Muslims there are Raafida (Shi'a), Secularis enz. so i'm asking our friend here Should we include tha DUA' to those Muslims?

 

So, Salafi do you agree the Sheikh or disagree?

[Salafi_Online]

the Shaykh did a great job, the fatwah is self explanatory..mashallh! and for all to see...so lets move on!

 

You differentiated these two kinds of Jihad and i just quoted it, but the Sheikh has not deferentiated he said clearly

 

"The best jihad today ... is to hold back from jihad." (p.204) n Arabic ( AFDHALUL JIHAD AL-YOWM HUWA TARKUL JIHAAD )

thats the whole point, you have to read the whole book to understand what the Shaykh is alluding to! i could easily say the shaykh is referring to Offencing JIhad, and there is no way you could refute me, or maybe he is referring to Defensive Hijad, still no real prove! lets move on!

 

Simple minds write simple things... the strange thing is you’re contending with Shaykh Ubayd Jaabari who taught at the Islamic University of Almadinah for over a decade, Alongside ALbani Bin Baaz and had regular contact with Cuthaymin and Fawzan and the rest of the scholars, he is from the kibar Ulama. A man who has spend his entire life serving Islam! What he said is in accordance with the Salafi Creed, Saxib it’s upon you to take it or leave it! no one is going to hold your hand! lets move on!

[sahal]

the Shaykh did a great job, the fatwah is self explanatory..mashallh! and for all to see...so lets move on!

You wish that we move on, but NO.

 

this is the main point, this is the real face of your group hatred of humanity including MUSLIMS other than your group.

 

Forget of being MUSLIMS, aren't the Iraqi people human being?

 

How your Sheikh dare to legitimate the war (and before more than 13 yrs of sanctions) against IRAQI people while bilions of non muslims around the world demonstrated and expressed their furious of Anglo-American sanctions and war aginst IRAQ?

 

Forget of being MUSLIMS, what is the crime of more than million Iraqi children who die because of these sanctions?

 

Forget of being MUSLIMS, is it legal to kill and to bomb innocent civilians in IRAQ?

 

Forget of being MUSLIMS, is it legal to occupy other peoples land?

 

Forget of being MUSLIMS, is it legal to control other countries resource by force?

 

Forget of being MUSLIMS, is it legal what hapened and still happening in ABU GHURAIB prison?

 

Why don't you see what billions of non Muslims have seen it?

 

Why do you refuse other MUSLIMS to say 'O ALLAH save the IRAQI people' while we know that this the least believe -ADHCAFUL IIMAAM?

 

Do you want us to be like you? Blinded heart?

 

 

What he said is in accordance with the Salafi Creed, Saxib it’s upon you to take it or leave it! no one is going to hold your hand! lets move on!

I swear ALLAH that this is not the SALAFI creed.

and this the main point. your group is claiming to be on the path of SALAF but all the evidence indicate that they're NOT. This FATWA is just one example of many more evidences.

 

So, expose any evidence from any book (even in a weak -DAIIF- story) that our SALAF SALIH legitimized by killing innocent (Muslims and non-muslims) people at their door-step?

 

 

Please answer my question and give us any evidence and don't escape since this is the main point of our debate.

[sahal]

Waiting your Respond patiently! :rolleyes:

[Salafi_Online]

Hamdan Katheran Tayyiban Mubaaraka fee Kaa maa Yuhiibu Rabunna wa Yarda!

 

Brother you write

 

“How your Sheikh dare to legitimate the war (and before more than 13 yrs of sanctions) against IRAQI people while bilions of non muslims around the world demonstrated and expressed their furious of Anglo-American sanctions and war aginst IRAQ?â€

this statement is devoid of truth, no where in the fatwah does the Shaykh legitimize the war!

 

“Forget of being MUSLIMS, what is the crime of more than million Iraqi children who die because of these sanctions?

there's no truth to this, the Noble Shaykh said,

 

“ NO, But Supplicate to Allah that he delivers the Muslims amongst the people of Iraq and that he relieves them of their distress . This is what I can add now. “

 

all the children fall under this!

 

“Forget of being MUSLIMS, is it legal to kill and to bomb innocent civilians in IRAQ?â€

Its haram for a Muslim to kill innocent Mortals, did the shaykh advocate such behaviour? I think not!

 

“Forget of being MUSLIMS, is it legal to occupy other peoples land?Forget of being MUSLIMS, is it legal to control other countries resource by force?�

Sahal, The earth belongs to Allah, and he grants it to whomever he wishes! read the words of the most High if your in doubt!

 

"Say (O Muhammad SAW): " O Allah Possessor of the kingdom, You give the kingdom to whom You will, and You take the kingdom from whom You will " 3:26

 

“Forget of being MUSLIMS, is it legal what hapened and still happening in ABU GHURAIB prison?â€

if they are Muslims, and assuming they are, since we have no knowledge of this, the Shaykh supplicated for all Muslims!

 

 

Why do you refuse other MUSLIMS to say 'O ALLAH save the IRAQI people' while we know that this the least believe -ADHCAFUL IIMAAM?

brother its crucial that one does not follow the Islam based on emotions, do you know of any narration where the messenger of Allah(saw) or the companions supplicated to Allah on the deliverance of the Disbelievers when a calamity hit them? There are ample narrations of supplicating for their guidance, however what about when a calamity strikes them, did they Supplicated for their safety? Its for you to answer this question!

 

Read the words of the Most High ( 30:2-4)

 

“ The Romans have been defeated (…) after their defeat, they will be victorious…And on that Day, the believers will rejoice!â€

[sahal]

Salafi I knew that you couldn't get any evidence from our SALAF the position that your group stood on the killing MUSLIMS in Palestine, Iraq and elsewhere in this world.

 

Secondly I'm very happy that you neither say that this FATWA was stolen from the Sheikh's office nor accused me to deliver part of it or taken from unreliable source etc. .

 

As long as you defended this FATWA and it's author we assume that this is your group's OFFICIAL position on MUSLIM and non-muslim killings, Rapings, torturing and enslaving them.

 

 

Finally I will not ask you question since you lack both knowldege and evidence to back your claims, therefore i will go ahead to expose your cult and their tricks in order to prevent others to fall the same trap that you've already fallen.

[Salafi_Online]

Salafi I knew that you couldn't get any evidence from our SALAF the position that your group stood on the killing MUSLIMS in Palestine, Iraq and elsewhere in this world.

Saxib Do you believe we endorse the killing of others muslims?Innalilahi Wa inna Ilayhi RajeeCun; brother look into your heart,do not lie upon the noble shaykh, this is a muslim we are talkinga about, SHOW US what we missed, where in that fatwah does the shaykh endorse the killing of others muslims?!?

 

As long as you defended this FATWA and it's author we assume that this is your group's OFFICIAL position on MUSLIM and non-muslim killings, Rapings, torturing and enslaving them.

you assume ?!? are you serious! Since you have no real Proof you resort to assumptions NOW! Subhanallah brother why dont you preoccupy yourself with something more meaningful! TRY IBAADAH!