WHY I LIKE FAYSAL CALI WARAABE

[The Zack]

^You mean those who resided in refugee camps in Harta Shiikha, Daroor and Gaashaamo bari and still there? They can stay with Ethiopia if they want to.

[AYOUB]

^^ That is not what I meant. Now go back to your village. They're missing their ****. Do you understand? Go! Shu! Shu!

 

[ January 07, 2009, 11:01 PM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

[NGONGE]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

NG,

 

 

 

 

NOTE

Aw Tusbaxle waa nin waalan wax alla waxaan qoray inuu beri ka noqdo baa suura gal ah.

I put your last sentence first because it's the one I agree with the most in all you wrote there.

 

 

Aw Tusbaxle’s argument is very simple and concise.

True. It's very simple but not at all in the way you mean it.

 

But there are regions in Somaliland whose silent majority vehemently opposes the dominant clan’s secessionist agenda.

Ma wixi la yedhi mese wax jira, saaxib? I give you 140,000 that actually voted (if I want to be sneaky and use that Awdal old man's argument to help me here I'd agree with him and say there should have been more ). You talk to me about silent majorities! Notice how weak your argument is, xaaji?

 

Some of those regions have violently objected and their status is well known.

Waa kuwii? Are they the ones that brought LA back to Somaliland, saaxib? So much for violent objection. Come on now, cross this one out too or at least improve on the logic.

 

Others chose to wait it out. Yet the lack of enthusiasm for secession in those parts is easily detectable and obvious to all who care to observe.

Back in Awdal again, are we not? How easily detectable is it? Oh! Sorry. I think you mistook those 140,000 voters for your phantom disgruntled folks.

 

You say it does not matter, as long they are weak and politically fragile. He says it does matter today, as it will in the future. In Milk Lakes, it mattered yesterday.

Give me credit, Xaaji. I would never forward such a weak argument. I would not exploit my fellow citizens. I would do everything to lure them to my side (and so far it seems to be working). As for what you cliam A&T would say in reply, we are back in the land of nod I notice. Who knows what the future will bring. Say it as you see it TODAY.

 

You say some of them voted and politicians from those regions hold important positions in my country’s highest offices. He says that’s not a good gauge in Somali politics. Clan association is.

Nonsense. Now whilst clan association matters a lot, Somali politics NEVER worked along those lines. Shall I recount the history that you know better than me, horse of the big man?

Or do you want more recent examples such as those that took place in the South? Clan politics has always been very fluid and many sub clans did forsake their kin to lay with opposing clans because, AT THE TIME, it was in their interest.

 

You say, again, it does not matter because my leaders can go to those towns and give rousing speeches with no trouble. He says you are gullible to believe such nonsense. When politically enabled, politicians can give speeches to audiences however hostile those audiences may be to the very policies espoused.

We're back to reading crystal balls I see.

 

He gave you vivid examples. You say, as you always do, stuff and nonsense. He says you don’t understand. You say what is there to understand. It’s very simple: we rule and you grumble. He says it’s this very sentiment that could grow into active resistance when things change in the south.

His examples were not vivid and I doubt he could come up with ANY convincing examples. As for an active resistance, it's been almost twenty years xaaji. If one were to appear it would have done so years ago. But it wont. Do you know why? Because people don't usually swap peace for war that easily.

 

You say, you are delusional; things in the south will never change. And if they do it will be too late to have any effect in my neck of the wood.

Actually, I think the South will change. The events of the past few years have cut down the number of warring groups and created more solid blocks in that part of the world now. The chances of reconciliation have never been better. Look at the two cousins pretending to be enemies and signing your beloved peace deal recently. Look at how one of them was leading the Courts when that organisation was populated by people from a subclan hostile to his. Need I say more, xaaji?

 

He says,

war hoy xoogaaga nabadda ah ha iska daadin

. You say me no understand Somali, speak English please. He says you don’t understand Somali politics either. You say:

Uskut yaa xalluufi al saghir

.

He wouldn't say that last one but I probably would say the bit you mentioned. As for understanding Somali Politics, well, I gave you my reply. What do you think?

[xiinfaniin]

^^Sophistry aside, I think yours is a blatant denial of the facts on the ground. You are boasting a victory that’s less than two years old. I am telling you your feet are not firm on some grounds precisely because of clan association reasons. What prevented you to keep the Milk Lakes in your column for all those twenty years you speak of so readily? Was it not resistance of some sort? Or you prefer not to talk about it because that was in the past? I also gather you don’t want to contemplate the future status of those regions. How neat, eh!

 

Aw Tusbaxle ma waalna markuu ka hadlayyo arrimaha SL

 

EDIT:

Originally posted by NGONGE:

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

NG,

 

 

quote:

---

Some of those regions have violently objected and their status is well known.

Waa kuwii? Are they the ones that brought LA back to Somaliland, saaxib? So much for violent objection. Come on now, cross this one out too or at least improve on the logic.

 

Waa kuwii Riyaale eryaday some years back .

 

I picked this quote of yours to show how myopic you’ve become in your passionate defense of SL cause. I mean you could talk like Oodweyne does and say we put down all the armed resistance against us, but to deny it all together is just fanatical xaaji.

[NGONGE]

^^ It's not boasting, Xaaji. It is the nature of the game called politics. You are refusing to admit the simple fact that though clan association is important it is NOT the be all and end all of Somali politics. I got those parts back because I offered a more attractive option.

 

The resistance you speak of was encouraged by 'outsiders' and I don't deny that they may come back to cause more trouble yet. But, and here is the crux, I trust in my ability to manage the situation (politically).

 

ps

To contemplate the future status of those regions is pointless for me. I regard them as part and parcel of the nation I support. Their future is my future. This is the way goals are achieved, Xaaji. Nobody goes into something with the thought of 'what if I fail, what if I fail?'..ma garatay or shall I give vivid examples?

[xiinfaniin]

lool@trust ability to manage the situation.

 

Some SWOT analysis is in order here waryee

[NGONGE]

^^ It's too late at night for that, saaxib. Maybe tomorrow.

[xiinfaniin]

^^

 

Salaam and G'night saaxiib

[NASSIR]

The Useful, it was nice to know that.

 

Xiin, so you believe there's a region call "Somaliland" that our regions fall into?

 

The so called "Somaliland" was not more than a protectorate, a bunch of treaties Colonial Britain entered with local tribes. So if you hold the idea that those long gone treaties have the historical and normative weight, that the objection is not over its existance or name but who is for or against or which clan is dominant or not to decide the return of this to its "legal past", then your perspective is not actually that far from where the secessionists stand. In fact, you demonstrated where theirs and yours converge: the existance of the region to which Sool and Sanaag are part eventhough the people in that area are divided over the dismemberment of it from Somalia. Correct?

 

"Somaliland" had never transpired into a state to where it can return to it. If you object to that , let me know. You are at least considered someone with realistic views in Somalia and its history unlike the delusional, modern revisionists.

[The Zack]

Originally posted by AYOUB:

^^ That is not what I meant. Now go back to your village. They're missing their ****. Do you understand? Go! Shu! Shu!

So you have no idea of what you are talking about? You are the one who needs to shut the ***** *** and go back to where you are really from.

[xiinfaniin]

Caamir, Somaliland is the Somali region colonized by the British Empire. I am not disputing that fact. Unless you confuse region with a state, I am not all too sure that you dispute it either. That there are folks who work day and night to realize Somaliland’s recognition is not a moot point. If you are in doubt, look no further than SOL. Where these mighty efforts abort is by missing the simple fact that Somalis are collection of clans, and their political loyalty decidedly lie in that construct. As it stands today, most proponents of Somaliland’s secessionist agenda belong to the dominant clan in that region. By and large, other clans are not onboard with this nonsense. In other words who wants to secede is well known. And so is who wants to remain in the big tent that’s the Somali republic, failed, and hopeless, as it may seem.

 

What I have been resisting all along is the effort to prettify this ill-conceived concept in electoral colleges and bogus voter registration programs in clearly disputed regions. There are better, and more superior, arguments to shoot down the notion of dismembering Somalia. But to simplify it by factoring its tribal factors out is the easiest way to expose SL’s deceiving and deadly political camouflage ya Camir.

[RedSea]

No Xiin, take it from my prespective. You, (those oppose SL quest for recognition) make more sound argument when you are not using the tribal card, so maybe you should stick to your other argument.

 

This can't be one clan project.

 

Because in 1991 All of Somaliland clans were present and signed away the decision to seceed. That included AUN Garaad Abdiqani of SSC clans. The decision to sign the declaration of SL independence was signed. It's also important to note no one was forced to in anyway. Saying otherwise means that the 'major' clan yeilds a great power to really force everyone to pen down a signature.

 

You also need to understand Igal AUN was reelected in Boroma city. Again a non clan 'x' city.

 

The President of Somaliland was elected on open election; many 'x' clans voted in favor for him though he hails from Awdal (a place most of you consider to oppose SL), but the party which he represented. And still many of you folks are parading around with the weak argument that he is somehow a decoy or is being 'used'. For once, give credit where its due.

 

:cool:

[RedSea]

Originally posted by Ayatollah Mulugetta:

Ok! They are rising. I mean they are starting to express their feelings, which for the last couple of years was put on ice, to milk Riyaale's presidency. Is that false?

That is weak! Rer Awdal have always been decent Somalis who harbor peace and tranquilty in their home state. They were never the disruptive and voilent group. An individual voiced his displeasure at outcome of the registration, and we welcome that act of free speech.

 

I just don't know this much paranoia about a certain qabiil stems from. Rer Awdal are in it with their rest landers.

 

Rer Awdal are not dump like many. What is missing from their lives. They got a peaceful country, functioning police and security forces, the top uni in all of Somaliland and ex-somalia perhaps. The alternative is choas. Who wants choas?

 

Rock on Awdal.

[Abtigiis]

Xinn

 

Ma walaai adeer mar kasta. Maybe you find me defending somaliland at times. I do so when some fools try to comapre what they have achieved with the state in the East -puntland: the one creatd just out of envy and to say "Anna waa ikan".

 

On the union matter, I have always been firm on my ground. "Somalidu waa mid qudha, mid kala sooc soocantiyo,soohdimo loo kala dhigayo malaha waxay kala sitaan!!!!" That drives why I may sound unreasonable to advocate for the secession of Somaligalbeed from Ethiopia and at the time object to Somaliland's secession.

 

But, there is a flow in the analogy. While British Somaliland consented to the marraige with Italian Somaliland, we never were asked what we think when Ethiopia took over our land. As to the diverse clans in Somaligalbeed, its my belief they differ on what to call the region and who to join, but they all agree that they cannot live with Ethiopia. In any case, we can settle for a refrendum and will accept the result. An internationally sponssored Sponser.

 

PEOPLE in Gaashamo and Harrtisheik are not REFUGEES. It is their land. They may not be fans of ONLF, but believe me they are not for union with Ethiopia. According to my vision, there will be no problem once we seceed from Ethiopia. For what I forsee is joining of Somalia, not to form another tiny 'republic'. That will solve the divergent clan intersts. WE ARE ALL GOING TO BE CALLED SOMALIANS. The only question will be which province Gashamo will go under, and which province Dollo Addo will fall under.

 

AfricaOwen

 

Apart from this infatuation with independence, you cannot give good reasons why you cannot live with the rest of the Somali's. None of the reasons given for the secession of the said clan is good enough. Plus, did it occurred to you that in 100 years, the demography and geography will change? I know the oppressed "GABOOYE" community in Togdheer, Hargeisa and Saxil are pro- union as well. And their numbers are not few. Not to mention other clans who live in the same areas. Will you exterminate them???????

 

REDsea

 

What was the option for other people in 1991? Bullyed by SNM, they could only be silent and expect the cloud to pass. The Garaad hebel was there is weak too. Ilka xanaf and Buuba are in Baidoa. Borama was chosen for Symbolism. It does not alter the substance that Awdalites are not pro-secession. Will Awadal people in this forum confirm this fact, please????????

[RedSea]

^^^Your whole argument is a joke. Will you extramate the gabooye community ku yeh? bal waxaad la shir timid eeg saaxib.

 

I think NG already said it enough. But do you have anything to support that rer Awdal are against Somaliland?

 

Awdal is where SL president hails from. They have also served in the SNM. Come up with better argument, this one is being thrashed rather easily.

 

 

No one was bullied ninyow. The SNM was no stronger than the current SL adminstration which has shown great strenght and commitment to peace in the region. Somaliland and its inhabitants have no history of bullying anyone.

 

ps. Marx is from AWDAL.