Just Brother Biixi and I

[Nur]

I am dedicating this discussion thread to Brother Biixi, a fellow Nomad on SOL islam page, prompted by a confusion on the "ISLAM-NESS" of the ICU and other political groups in Somalia.

 

When it comes to deciding if a group's movement is truly Islamic, or if its members are Muslims but their Movement is not Islamic, we need to go back to basic definitions of what islam is, so that we know for certain what movement can be said to be Islamic, or non islamic.

 

Brother Bixi disagrees that the ICU is an Islamic movement, to him, all the political movements and warlords including the ICU are the same thing, he dislikes them all, he probably is waiting for the genuine Islamic movement to liberate our people from the evil of politicians and warlords who have controlled the death and devastation of our country for the past 16 years.

 

Brother Biixi made two statements:

 

1. ICU is not an Islamic movement

2. ICU members are Muslims like members of the warlords known as the TFG.

 

Now, the debate is open to answer:

 

A. What makes a person Muslim?

B. What makes a Movement a Muslim?

C. What makes a Nation a Muslim nation?

 

The answer to these questions will help clarify the confusion inshAllah.

 

 

Nur

[Biixi]

Nur

 

You could've just asked me in an e-mail what you are confused about instead of addressing me in the third person, redefining basic terms, condescending ...etc.

 

I didn't think my opinion of ICU warranted a whole thread, but since you started one lets clear something out before we proceed.

 

A. What is the ICU?

B. What was its motivation?

C. Who supported it?

D. Who was its members?

 

 

If this is something you want to talk about, count me in.

[Nur]

Bixi bro.

 

Wonderful, Yes, this is something i would like to talk about, so why dont you tell us the answer to these questions, since you have claimed that they are not a Muslim movement. Also, in parallel, please clarify how individuals in the Anarchist warlord government who have senselessly committed attrocious crimes agains humanity in the past 16 years can be classified as "Muslims just like the ICU Movement", specially those who openly oppose any application of Sharia Law in Somalia, who openly take Ethiopia as their allies and protectors to commit the crimes we all know about, of rape and murder of civilians in all of the regions.

 

InshaAllah in my capacity, as Moderator of Islam page, I will answer my own questions above, the definition of Islam. Because If we agree on the fundementsl tenets of Islam, it will be self evident to see who is conforming to its standards and who is out of its fold.

 

That way, you as a person who seems to know facts on the ground about this movement and their adversaries Warlord Anarchist Government, will enlighten us about your area of expertise, and likewise, I will explain Islam questions, at the end, we will discover the true nature of the ICU if indeed your initial claims were justified.

 

I hope that we become objective and brotherly without any preconceived prejudice against anyone or group to be fair ( No Clan Based Accusations Please, Just the facts that can be documented).

 

Jazaakallah kheiran.

 

 

Nur

[Biixi]

Nur Brother

 

Let's start.

 

As I see... ICU is product of USC.

[Fabregas]

Brother Biixi, It would make for a more interesting debate if you could provide more evidence and elaborate on the point you have just made above.

[xiinfaniin]

I second camel boy's request!

[Wigad]

Lol at Camel boy's request.*i had to type something.

[Nur]

Brother Biixi, Salaams

 

You write:

 

"Nur Brother, Let's start. As I see... ICU is product of USC."

 

 

Answer:

 

That may be correct brother, the way you see things depends on where you stand on Aqeedah issues on one hand, and the very nature of those you are looking at ( The ICU) on the other. The first dependecy is about you, the second dependency is about the object (ICU).

 

So let us first begin to explore the latter.

 

Like a football team aquired by a wealthy investor like eNuri Capital aquisitions, there is no doubt that the present formation of the Islamic courts includes recycled old guards from the USC, just like their opponenents (TFG) have within their ranks receycled elements from SSDF, while the SNM ave grown apart to create their own breakaway Republic in the North.

 

THE SNM, USC and SSDF, However, as time progressed have polarized, each clan following a different path, initially SNM and SSDF took conrol of their respective regions, while USC stronghold Central Somalia fell in anarchy and out of any control, which caused the movement to fade away to spawn splinters along subclan allegiances, looking to Addis Ababa for suppport, while the leadership of the remnants of the SNM and the SSDF also cemented loyalties with Addis Ababa to survive. But one thing was common for all of them: All of them were driven by greed, not faith nor desire for good governance , Democracy nor secularism.

 

The North and the Northeast have thus created stable regional governance blessed by the big brother on their shoulder (Not Raqeeb and catiid, But Bush and Meles). While the Anarchy in the south was cleverly maintained by the same client nation of Ethiopia, arming all the warlords to maintain the anarchy, rape, murder for hire, and the rampant lawlessness that followed.

 

At the peak of this anarchy, each splinter clan group created its own little court to mete out justice to their own, since no outsider was allowed to do so, and thus, miniature courts were created in many tribal areas.

 

The Anarchy in the South has its sponsors and care takers ( beyound the scope of this thread), but the net result was the USA -CIA Sponsored Murder-For-Hire business which endordsed the hunting down of all independent religious scholars and their summary executions in the name of war on terror, thus awakening the dormant activism of the common man to take ownership of a problem he was oblivius to before.

 

Suddenly, the clan structure underwent a radical transformation, a mini revolt has changed the clan leaderships topology from the warlords at the top, to the leadership of the Islamic scholars of each clan and their assumption of clan affairs, which forced the warlords to show their true colors and sponsors.

 

The irony began when the thugs that held Mogadishu hostage for 16 years, with the worst criminal record were blessed by the USA as allies and friends of the free world in the war aginst "terror", (Which appeared to the common somali person like using an oven heat to cool a simeringly hot room) the Warlords first assignment: Capturing three non Somali men accused of the Nairobi Embassy bombings. But to capture or to kill these three men, like sifting through tons of sand to get an ounce of gold, a lot of innocent men and women where wasted, killed and sacrificed, or so we were consoled by the caring USA.

 

It was during the commition of these crimes by the USA, Ethiopia and the Warlords in the South that the miniature tribal Islamic courts transformed to become the United Islamic Courts.( Please refer to eNuri article on SOL Islam pages "Paradigm Shift" )

 

Now, the southern residents set aside their tribal differences and united their efforts to root out the criminal warlord elements, the warlords being armed and supported by the Proxy government of Ethiopia serving the "interets" (or is it?) of the USA in the region which is beyound the declared "war on terror" and more of an economic expedition to shake the tree that will drop the Crude Oil fruits.

 

Subsequently, the Islamic Courts routed the warlords, took control of the entire south in a short time, and established law and order, in a glaring example of good governance, opened the airport and the shipping port for the first time in 16 years, scared away pirates, and returned homes seized by warlords to their rightful owners in far away Puntland and Somaliland as well as for the oppressed looma ooyaan minorities from other regions. The arrival of the courts made everyone happy except for the USA, Ethiopia and their local boys.

 

 

The ICU Message:

 

1. Uniting of Somalia under Sharia Law

2. Justice , Law and Order as first priority

3. Establishment of an independent NON FOREIGN CLIENT GOVERNMENT.

4. Servig the Public.

 

 

Now, who has a problem with the above?

 

The survival of the Islamic Courts depended on the harsh reality of accepting slavery to other than Allah, which others willingly accepted, a phoney government that sits on the lap of its national enemy, allowing it to desecrate its national fiber and faith, by giving it full control of all of Somalia. The Courts opted to disappear and melt away gracefully instead of living in disgrace. Today the courts live deep in the hearts of all decent Somalis all over the world, And reappear they will inshAllah, evil can fool the fools, but those who serve Allah alone, will never serve evil. Its a contradiction. So, either America and Ethiopia stand for the GOOD, and the Islamic Courts stood for EVIL, OR something is terribly wrong.

 

 

The second part is about Islam.

 

Biixi bro. I am sure that you agree that Islam erases all sins, so if a warlord embraces Islam, and accepts the Sharia (even if he is using it), as Muslims we can not judge him differently ( we can be cautious). So if any element from the warlords join the Courts movement, they must have accepted to live by the Islamic doctrine of the Courts, Because Allah forgives his servants who have committed crimes. Other warlord criminals were forgiven by thier mentors, The USA and Ethiopia, so if they obey them, they will not be prosecuted for the crimes against humanity that they have committed, and continue to commit in their service, which explains why they are so loyal to them.

 

On the other hand, the warlord Government is clearly agianst the establishment of Sharia as the law of the land, their main purpose for existense is not to serve teh Somali people, but to serve their masters,( by bribing their tribal leaders for a support).

 

 

So Brother Biixi, how are the Islamic Courts Union and the Warlords the same?

 

 

Nur

 

[ August 12, 2007, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: Nur ]

[Biixi]

Asalaamu Calaykum

 

Sorry for the late response, I've been in Somalia for the last two months.

 

As I stated before I was hoping that our discussion wouldn't turn into a word play, but it seems I was hopeless.

 

ICU is a product of USC and you agreed.

While they kicked out some worlds out of Mogadishu and Kismaio, they rewarded remaining warlords with prominent positions in the ICU.

While Afgoi, Marka, and Kismaio were left untouched and under the same leader warlord leadership, Bay-Bakool, Puntland were attacked whatever the claim was.

 

"How are the Islamic Courts Union and the Warlords the same?"

They are the same to me.

[Nur]

Brother Bixi

 

Welcome back to SOL

 

You write:

 

ICU is a product of USC and you agreed.

 

 

Answer:

 

If I follow your logic, then Omar Ibnul Khattaab and Abu Jahal are the same, because Omar used to be a Mushrik.

 

Brother, forget the origins, let us talk where and what the ICU stands and compare it to where and what the TFG Warlords group stands for, who supprorts them and their position on the implementation of the Sharia as the law of the land.

 

 

You write:

 

While they kicked out some worlds out of Mogadishu and Kismaio, they rewarded remaining warlords with prominent positions in the ICU.

 

 

Answer:

 

The Prophet SAWS when he entered Makkah victoriously, not only did he forgive Abu Sufyaan, his enemy, but he gave him special status, The Prophet declared that " Anyone who enters the house of Abu Sufyaan, is safe" Abu Sufyan was given that previllage to win key figures for Islam.

 

So, Likewise, what is wrong if they give sanctuary to a warlord who agrees to be loyal to the ICU and Sharia law and order?

 

While, the warlords are being given sanctuary ny the Ethiopians, Somalia's historical enemy?

 

You write:

 

While Afgoi, Marka, and Kismaio were left untouched and under the same leader warlord leadership, Bay-Bakool, Puntland were attacked whatever the claim was.

 

 

Answer:

 

Brother, The ICU has never attacked any region that accepted Sharia and the Law of Islam, Puntland leadership is loyal to Ethiopia, while the majority of its people are loyal to Sharia and Islam, why do you think that the leadership declared the Sharia after the swift victories of the the ICU, the Puntland leadership, was worried for a popular uprising of tthe Somali people in Puntland by standing with their southern brothers.

 

To say A = B, logically, you need to show that at least the two groups ae same in the following areas:

 

1. Warlords, for the past 16 years have committed crimes against humanity in both the south and the North/ Northeastern of Somalia.

 

Can you say the same aboout the ICU?

 

 

2. The worlords are all under single leadership of an evil enemy of our country, Ethiopia.

 

Can you say the same about the ICU

 

3. The warlords reject Sharia and Islam as the political governance system for Somalia, they support tribal clan system of 4.2 to divide Somalia along clan lines, while all serve United Ethiopia as their master.

 

Can you say the same about the ICU.

 

 

Now the ICU:

 

1. The ICU has created Peace and order for 6 months never seen in the south for 16 years.

 

Can you say the same about the warlords.

 

2. The ICU has a leadership of devout Muslims, who are knowledgeable, respected and clean.

 

Can you say the same about the Warlords.

 

3. The ICU stood for a principle, Islam, and refused to compromise, refused to sell Somalia to the Ethiopians.

 

Can you say the same about the warlords?

 

4. The ICU has helped many poor families, ran charitable activities, restored courts that gave people their properties.

 

Can you say the same about the Warlords?

 

 

Nur

[Biixi]

Brother Bixi

 

Welcome back to SOL

 

 

Thank you brother.

 

 

You write:

 

“Brother, forget the origins, let us talk where and what the ICU stands and compare it to where and what the TFG Warlords group stands for, who supports them and their position on the implementation of the Sharia as the law of the land.”

 

 

You can’t forget about the parts, if you’re talking the whole. ICU and USC are the same, so who their opponent is, who supports the opponent, and their ideology doesn’t change this fact. Understanding the parts is very important; otherwise you won’t understand the whole.

 

 

You write:

 

“The Prophet SAWS when he entered Makkah victoriously, not only did he forgive Abu Sufyaan, his enemy, but he gave him special status, The Prophet declared that " Anyone who enters the house of Abu Sufyaan, is safe" Abu Sufyan was given that previllage to win key figures for Islam.”

 

I wouldn’t compare the ICU to the prophet SAW, may Allah forgive you.

 

 

So, Likewise, what is wrong if they give sanctuary to a warlord who agrees to be loyal to the ICU and Sharia law and order?

 

They didn’t just give a sanctuary to one warlord, but prominent positions were given to many warlords, and these appointments were based on tribal affiliations. These warlords didn’t repent and continued on living as before the ICU kicked out other warlords. Local populations from Afgoi to Kismaio were living under the same condition as pre-ICU. Their houses still occupied, their women still suffering, getting abused, and working in farms that were taking from them. Selective Sharia law and order is not Islamic.

 

 

You write:

 

“Brother, The ICU has never attacked any region that accepted Sharia and the Law of Islam.”

 

Why wasn’t Sharia implemented in Afgoi, Wanle wayen…Kismaio? Why didn’t they give homes, farms, and other looted properties to these people? ICU should’ve attacked itself first.

 

“Puntland leadership is loyal to Ethiopia, while the majority of its people are loyal to Sharia and Islam, why do you think that the leadership declared the Sharia after the swift victories of the ICU, the Puntland leadership, was worried for a popular uprising of the Somali people in Puntland by standing with their southern brothers.”

 

Puntland had always had internal conflicts, which had nothing to do with religion. It had Alitahad conflict, Ali Jama conflict, Muse conflict, &^%$ conflict. And it was one man from the last group who claimed there was a court in Southern Galkaio, and soon that evaporated. The only lie that ICU was using to deceit people was the Sharia claim, and by stating where Puntland(Somaliland) stood on Sharia showed ICU true goal and subsequent defeat.

 

ICU claimed advancing Sharia yet they didn’t follow the Sharia.

 

 

 

To say A = B, logically, you need to show that at least the two groups ae same in the following areas:

 

1. Warlords, for the past 16 years have committed crimes against humanity in both the south and the North/ Northeastern of Somalia.

Can you say the same aboout the ICU?

 

Most of those criminals are part of ICU.

 

 

2. The worlords are all under single leadership of an evil enemy of our country, Ethiopia. Can you say the same about the ICU.

 

Warlords are everywhere and ICU has plenty of warlords who are still oppressing people.

 

 

3. The warlords reject Sharia and Islam as the political governance system for Somalia; they support tribal clan system of 4.2 to divide Somalia along clan lines, while all serve United Ethiopia as their master. Can you say the same about the ICU.

 

4.5 tribal system is something that a lot people supported, however imperfect it may be. But this tribal system doesn’t confiscate homes, farms and oppress people in the name of Sharia.

 

 

Now the ICU:

 

1. The ICU has created Peace and order for 6 months never seen in the south for 16 years. Can you say the same about the warlords.

 

For whom?

 

2. The ICU has a leadership of devout Muslims, who are knowledgeable, respected and clean. Can you say the same about the Warlords?

 

That is your perception. Devout Muslims don’t do what the ICU do, at least they can count on your respect. ICU and the warlords are the same to me, at least warlords don’t claim Sharia.

 

 

3. The ICU stood for a principle, Islam, and refused to compromise, refused to sell Somalia to the Ethiopians. Can you say the same about the warlords?

 

When did ICU do that? Didn’t they give Ethiopia the justification for coming into Somalia? I remember when of the ICU warlords declared Jihad on Ethiopia.

 

 

4. The ICU has helped many poor families, ran charitable activities, restored courts that gave people their properties. Can you say the same about the Warlords?

 

They displaced thousands from their homes, farms etc, just like those warlords. How are they different?

 

ICU is what it is -- USC with beard and every body know that.

[Nur]

Bixi bro.

 

I am sure that you understand that whenever we Muslims mention that the Prophet SAWS used to do such and such it is meant to follow his Sunnah, not that we are equating anyone with thr prophet, I hope that we are both sincere to understand this, because only Allah knows what is in my mind and yours.

 

So, the qustion is still unanswered, If the Prophet forgave his opponenents in the war, why shouldnt the ICU forgive their opponents as they follow the Prophets Sunnah ( his example) ?

 

 

Let us assume your theory that the ICU is as bad as the Warlords.

 

Here is my question: If two factions of warlords, one calling itself the ICU, and the other calling itself TFG have a conflict, and one faction declares that it will implement the Sharia and succeeds in a short time to make large portion of the country peaceful as witnessed by international observers, and the other faction resorts to seek military support from the enemy of the nation, Ethiopia. You have three choices:

 

1. Support ICU because they claim Islam and Somali unity, so someone who at least claims Islam is better than someone who is against Islam.

 

2. Support Ethiopian backed TFG because they are tribal organization, which is in the best interest of Ethiopia, otherwise it would not support it, and tribalism is better than Islam.

 

3. Dont support either group, just wait out and see who wins.

 

 

Brother, you say that most of the warlord criminals are part of the ICU, please show me the following math:

 

Total number of criminal warlords = X

Number of warlords affiliated with ICU =Y

Number of warlords affiliated with TFG = Z

 

Y > Z Meaning Criminal warlords of ICU are greater than Criminal warlords of the TFG.

 

 

You say that ICU leadership are not Islamically more eduacted, ethical and religious than the leadership of the TFG. If it is only my perception, could you please enlighten me with glaring examples of the contrary, I would be very thankful.

 

 

I wrote:

 

3. The ICU stood for a principle, Islam, and refused to compromise, refused to sell Somalia to the Ethiopians. Can you say the same about the warlords?

 

 

You answered:

 

When did ICU do that? Didn’t they give Ethiopia the justification for coming into Somalia? I remember when of the ICU warlords declared Jihad on Ethiopia

 

 

My answer:

 

Brother cant you see how you contradict yourself?

 

First you ask when did they do that? then you answer " They Declared Jihad on Ethiopia" Isnt Jihad an Islamic Principle to be declared when an enemy is in your country?

 

Was the ICU who gave justification when they recognized the warlord governmenmt and asked the TFG presidnet to come to Mogadishu under their protection? didnt he refuse and insisted to come to Mogadishu aboard Ethiopian Helicopter protected by Ethiopian Army?

 

 

You write:

 

They ( ICU) displaced thousands from their homes, farms etc, just like those warlords. How are they different?

 

 

Answer:

 

That is correct, according to your History books, when the ICU came to power, thousands of people ran away from Mogadishu and the south, Mogadishu became unsafe to the point where the kind government of the TFG and the benevolent Ethiopian Army came to help the Somali people, gave many Somalians food and shelter and moved them to safe areas of the northeast, thanks, today, Mogadishu is so safe after the ICU were chased away by the heros of the TFG and the Ethiopians.

 

You write:

 

ICU is what it is -- USC with beard and every body know that.

 

 

Answer:

 

All of them? If indeed I was the ICU, I would have worked with the TFG, you see all of the warlords , both southerners and the Northeasterners are now working hand in hand.

 

Why would ICU "warlords" risk fighting the mighty Ethiopian and American war machine without a principle that is much more powerful like a faith in Allah, when they can easily share the pie with their brother warlords? Like a faith?

 

 

Nur

[Biixi]

Points I’ve made in my previous articles that you’ve agreed

 

1.ICU is product of USC.

2.There are warlords in the ICU.

3.ICU’s members are above the Sharia while the rest of Somalis are not.

4. ICU members still occupy homes, farms etc from Afgoi to Kismaio.

5. ICU said one thing and did another.

 

 

Now to your artticle points you’ve raised

 

You wrote

“So, the question is still unanswered, if the Prophet forgave his opponents in the war, why shouldn’t the ICU forgive their opponents as they follow the Prophets Sunnah (his example)?”

You are still comparing the Prophet SAW to the ICU may Allah forgive you. ICU doesn’t follow the Sunnah.

 

 

“Let us assume your theory that the ICU is as bad as the Warlords.”

ICU has warlords known to be very bad it is not my theory, but a fact.

 

“Here is my question: If two factions of warlords, one calling itself the ICU, and the other calling itself TFG have a conflict, and one faction declares that it will implement the Sharia and succeeds in a short time to make large portion of the country peaceful as witnessed by international observers, and the other faction resorts to seek military support from the enemy of the nation, Ethiopia. You have three choices”

 

ICU did implement Selective Sharia in closing Cinemas/Movie studios, confiscate cars, stop Istun, Jaad etc. The only differentiating factor of whether someone was subject to this Sharia was their Clan. From Afgoi all the way to Kismaio were untouched by this Sharia.

 

 

“ 1. Support ICU because they claim Islam and Somali unity, so someone who at least claims Islam is better than someone who is against Islam.”

No Somali is against Islam. Just some people use religion to reach their agenda. Someone that claims Islam and does unIslamic acts is worse than the criminals that don’t hide behind Islam.

 

 

“2. Support Ethiopian backed TFG because they are tribal organization, which is in the best interest of Ethiopia, otherwise it would not support it, and tribalism is better than Islam.”

TGF is based on the 4.5 system representing all Somalis however imperfect that may be, it is not a tribal organization, it is a non-functioning government but nevertheless a recognized government, and it doesn’t advocate that tribalism is better than Islam.

 

 

“3. Dont support either group, just wait out and see who wins.”

We should support the government at least it can be voted out, if it fails to deliver when her time runs out.

 

 

“Brother, you say that most of the warlord criminals are part of the ICU, please show me the following math:

 

Total number of criminal warlords = X

Number of warlords affiliated with ICU =Y

Number of warlords affiliated with TFG = Z

 

Y > Z Meaning Criminal warlords of ICU are greater than Criminal warlords of the TFG.”

 

The ICU has warlords and so does the TGF, counting which entity has more warlords than the other is pointless. This is not a soccer match. Are there warlords/criminals in both groups? – YES

 

 

“You say that ICU leadership are not Islamically more educated, ethical and religious than the leadership of the TFG. If it is only my perception, could you please enlighten me with glaring examples of the contrary, I would be very thankful.”

 

Again ICU don’t follow Islam period according to their actions. See my previous post why they are not Islamic.

Are they more educated Islamicallly than the TGF? I don’t know, I didn't test them.

Are they more ethical –No.

Are they religious –NO. You want example read what I previously wrote.

 

 

“Brother cant you see how you contradict yourself?”

You see what you want to see, tell me how this is contradicting:

 

“When did ICU do that? Referring to your claim that the ICU stood up principle, Islam.

 

“Didn’t they give Ethiopia the justification for coming into Somalia. They Declared Jihad on Ethiopia"

Two things:

1) ICU which doesn’t follow Islam declared Jihad, just the same way a non-Muslim can declare Jihad. So me stating what someone decalred doesn't contradict me, but it contradicts the ICU itself.

2) Ethiopians/TGF got the needed excuse to bring Ethiopian troops into Somalia.

 

 

“They ( ICU) displaced thousands from their homes, farms etc, just like those warlords. How are they different?”

 

I was referring to Afgoi, barawar marko, Kismaoi.hiiraan all the way to Mudug, and yes the TGF and ICU displaced thousands out of Mogadishu.

 

 

“All of them? If indeed I was the ICU, I would have worked with the TFG, you see all of the warlords, both southerners and the Northeasterners are now working hand in hand.”

 

The ICU is a warlord entity, a product of the USC. TGF and ICU are the same in my eyes. Thousands of innocent people are displaced, and dying because them. Allah will judge them.

 

 

“Why would ICU "warlords" risk fighting the mighty Ethiopian and American war machine without a principle that is much more powerful like a faith in Allah, when they can easily share the pie with their brother warlords? Like a faith?”

 

They’ve no principle, all of them ICU, TGF, Ethiopia, and the West, if they had principle they wouldn't fight on the backs of innocent poeople. May Allah help us all.

[Nur]

Brother Bixi

 

You said that I ave agreed to the following statements that you claimed.

 

1.ICU is product of USC.

 

My COMPLETE previous answer IN CONTEXT was :

 

That may be correct brother, the way you see things depends on where you stand on Aqeedah issues on one hand, and the very nature of those you are looking at ( The ICU) on the other. The first dependecy is about you, the second dependency is about the object (ICU).

 

The word "MAY", in ENGLISH Language does NOT mean agreement, it means a possibility, a probability, secondly, you have taken it completely out of context which was that that how you see events about ICU and TFG greately depends your Aeedah in Islam which concerns me more than the dispute which is secondary to my job here to help you in issues of Islamic Aqeedah

 

2.There are warlords in the ICU.

 

YES, who accepted leadership of ICU Islamic Agenda of application of Sharia. While their oppnenets are LED by Warlords and COMPLETELY REJECT SHARIA APPLICATION.

 

 

3.ICU’s members are above the Sharia while the rest of Somalis are not.

 

Brother, Allah Ka cabso, Allah made lies Haram, never have I agreed to this statement anywhere, if you fail to proove this, it shows you have a problem with Allah, not with me. So you need to repent make TAWBAH.

 

4. ICU members still occupy homes, farms etc from Afgoi to Kismaio.

 

I have never agreed to this statment wholesale either, so substantiate this too my brother.

 

5. ICU said one thing and did another

 

 

I dont know where you are reading, but our statements that you claim that I have agreed to are either out of context ot a blatant disinformation, please substantiate this too.

 

 

Brother:

 

Let us for once forget the ICU and the TFG, they are temporal political formations that did exist before, and will not exist forever, so arguing about their ISLAMNESS at this point with your currnet logic will not help us get to the most important point in this discusssion.

 

 

If we agree on the following points, we will solve this dilemma:

 

1. Allah, represented by Quran Is the ONLY SOVEREIGN, by virtue of creation of the universe and everything in it including people, He is above all, thus any law, agreement, settlement that conflicts with Allah's teachings are absolutely and eternally ILLEGAL.

 

2. Allah is the ONLY Ally for us whose protection we should seek, any Somali who seeks other than Allah as protector, specially, from those who are against Islam, has declared war on Islam, and proves his departure away from Islam.

 

3. Allah is the only RIGHTFUL LAW MAKER and LAW GIVER to His creatures, any organization in Somalia that makes laws contradictory to those of Allah are in Contempt of Allah, the Soveregin, thus, by this action of blatant disrespect of Allah rule over their lives, they have chosen to be non Muslims.

 

 

Your answers to these statements will steer this discussion to the right direction.

 

Do you agree to these statments?

 

 

Nur

[Biixi]

1.ICU is product of USC.

 

Your agreement from previous writings

 

“ there is no doubt that the present formation of the Islamic courts includes recycled old guards from the USC, just like their opponenents (TFG) have within their ranks “

 

 

2.There are warlords in the ICU.

 

“YES, who accepted leadership of ICU Islamic Agenda of application of Sharia. While their oppnenets are LED by Warlords and COMPLETELY REJECT SHARIA APPLICATION.”

 

Actually if you notice 1 and 2 are the same -

 

 

3.ICU’s members are above the Sharia while the rest of Somalis are not.

 

I wrote “They didn’t just give a sanctuary to one warlord, but prominent positions were given to many warlords, and these appointments were based on tribal affiliations. These warlords didn’t repent and continued on living as before the ICU kicked out other warlords. Local populations from Afgoi to Kismaio were living under the same condition as pre-ICU. Their houses still occupied, their women still suffering, getting abused, and working in farms that were taking from them. Selective Sharia law and order is not Islamic.”

 

You wrote “So, Likewise, what is wrong if they(ICU) give sanctuary to a warlord who agrees to be loyal to the ICU and Sharia law and order?”

 

4. ICU members still occupy homes, farms etc from Afgoi to Kismaio.

 

You never disagreed with the statement. ICU’s action contradicts they claim Sharia.

And you say they follow the Sharia

 

5. ICU said one thing and did another

 

“I dont know where you are reading, but our statements that you claim that I have agreed to are either out of context ot a blatant disinformation, please substantiate this too.”

 

You said they uphold Islam and follow Sharia while they do the contrary.

 

 

Brother:

 

“Let us for once forget the ICU and the TFG, they are temporal political formations that did exist before, and will not exist forever, so arguing about their ISLAMNESS at this point with your currnet logic will not help us get to the most important point in this discusssion.”

 

I know you don’t mean it, but this is very insulting. What do you mean my current logic? I stated my opinion about the ICU in another threath, you dedicated a whole “threat” to my opinion, and so why resort to “your current logic” when you couldn’t sell the ICU to me?

 

Understand this please, my opinion was and is NEVER about Islam but the ICU.

ICU is a product of USC, it used Islam when it wanted, and applied its “sharia” when it wanted.